Theory: Vasto Lorde

[NLee]

-what i mean is that they can't keep using the mask on a fight and will be forced to remove their mask because the can't keep it up anymore

-it is matter LOL, since aizen hogyouku is incomplete, he even stated that he need kisuke hogyoku to fuse it into his own

-That is exactly what I said... You can't run 50 straight miles at top speed the entire time. They have their limits which is the whole reason why they have set durations for how long they can keep on their masks. Each Vizards limit is different which shows it's based on their own individual proficiency. This does not mean they don't have control over it. They do, which is how they're able to use it in the first place.

-No, it doesn't matter. The Vizard have learned to control the power given to them. They have mastered their powers. Whatever the Hogyoku gave them at the time is what they've mastered

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

-That is exactly what I said... You can't run 50 straight miles at top speed the entire time. They have their limits which is the whole reason why they have set durations for how long they can keep on their masks. Each Vizards limit is different which shows it's based on their own individual proficiency. This does not mean they don't have control over it. They do, which is how they're able to use it in the first place.

-No, it doesn't matter. The Vizard have learned to control the power given to them. They have mastered their powers. Whatever the Hogyoku gave them at the time is what they've mastered

-they do but they can't keep it up for long some of them can maintain it for 30 hours like mashiro did but in a fight that's another case, some of them even only using it for a few seconds and remove their mask since they can't keep up with the pressure,

-it matters because the hyogoku is far from complete at that time, even if they mastered it what they mastered is 2ND rated hollow power from incomplete hogyoku, that's why aizen called the a fail lab rat

 

[NLee]

-they do but they can't keep it up for long some of them can maintain it for 30 hours like mashiro did but in a fight that's another case, some of them even only using it for a few seconds and remove their mask since they can't keep up with the pressure,

-it matters because the hyogoku is far from complete at that time, even if they mastered it what they mastered is 2ND rated hollow power from incomplete hogyoku, that's why aizen called the a fail lab rat

The limited duration of keeping their mask on is how long they can go without it coming off. If it starts to crumple they can reform it just like we've seen Ichigo do a dozen times throughout Bleach. Love's mask lasts for 3 minutes, but does that mean after those 3 minutes he can't use it again? No, it doesn't. He can simply put it back on and jump into the fight again. This is what he did during the war against Stark. He re-masked himself.

You don't get what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if the Hogyoku was completed or not when the Vizards were turned into Hollows. At the time they were given Hollow abilities period. What exactly is a 2nd rate Hollow power? Elaborate cause I've never heard of such a thing . What's a 1st rate Hollow power then? The Vizard gained Hollow powers period. They have masks and can use Ceros. What else do you want?



So they're "failed lab rats" because Aizen said so? In case you haven't noticed Aizen said a lot of things. Half of them was complete crap via his god complex.
-Aizen was trying to act like a know-it-all and was going off about how Ichigo exchanged his reiatsu for brute strength. Was that true too? No, it wasn't. In actuality Ichigo had risen beyond what Aizen's level of perception:

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-After taking Ichigo's Mugetsu Aizen started blabbering about how the Hogyoku evolved him beyond the need for a zanpaktou. Was that true? No, it wasn't. The Hogyoku was crumpling away his powers because it didn't find him worthy:

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I fail to see why you insist on taking Aizen's words so literally. Nothing he says is reliable. He was nothing more than an overly arrogant fool with a god complex who thought he was better than everyone. To take so literally what someone like this has to say is a foolish act in itself.

There are a very select few in the Bleach universe who's words and facts we can trust. Aizen is not and was not one of them.

 

[lubricati0n]

-not really if only u guys can give me a great explanation i will accept it but no none of you can do that so far

-not in bleach, that thing has become a great flaw in bleach let alone gin, some of them are near death situation but always saved by plot

-that's only mean halibel is stronger than hitsugaya

-when aizen use it to create wonderseise he stated it since SS think it need 1 year to fully awaken the hogyouku power

-nah ichigo can keep it longer when he fight grimjow.U_U


-what i mean is that they can't keep using the mask on a fight and will be forced to remove their mask because the can't keep it up anymore

-it is matter LOL, since aizen hogyouku is incomplete, he even stated that he need kisuke hogyoku to fuse it into his own




bleach hardcore fans care, since they read to deep into the manga, and considered bleach is too cliche like one piece and naruto, while bleach concept is pretty much simple

I'm sorry but if you won't listen to facts it doesn't matter how great the explanation is because like I said you're countering it with no evidence.

1) I said deaths/defeats. Defeat is just as bad as death especially in bleach.
2) Did you even read all my responses? If you can't get it through your mind that it was simply a bad natural match-up then something is wrong with you.
3) No Aizen never states that, I just re-read the SS arc.
4) Please go and re-read/re-watch the fight. He didn't keep it on longer, he kept renewing his mask when part of it broke. Plus a fight in bleach is not even 2min tbh(exaggeration).

Now bleach hardcore fans? How so? we're only giving facts that are present, there are no signs of reading into to it too deep. You're the hardcore fan here because you're intent on believing the top 3 are Vasto Lorde even though you have no evidence to back up your claims whilst we do.

 

[Chicken Soop]

How can you not trust Aizen's word... he knows everything.

 

[NLee]

How can you not trust Aizen's word... he knows everything.

No. He doesn't.

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

The limited duration of keeping their mask on is how long they can go without it coming off. If it starts to crumple they can reform it just like we've seen Ichigo do a dozen times throughout Bleach. Love's mask lasts for 3 minutes, but does that mean after those 3 minutes he can't use it again? No, it doesn't. He can simply put it back on and jump into the fight again. This is what he did during the war against Stark. He re-masked himself.

You don't get what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if the Hogyoku was completed or not when the Vizards were turned into Hollows. At the time they were given Hollow abilities period. What exactly is a 2nd rate Hollow power? Elaborate cause I've never heard of such a thing . What's a 1st rate Hollow power then? The Vizard gained Hollow powers period. They have masks and can use Ceros. What else do you want?

yes it start to crumble a bit they can reform but if it completely gone they can do it again, they need to rest

So they're "failed lab rats" because Aizen said so? In case you haven't noticed Aizen said a lot of things. Half of them was complete crap via his god complex.
-Aizen was trying to act like a know-it-all and was going off about how Ichigo exchanged his reiatsu for brute strength. Was that true too? No, it wasn't. In actuality Ichigo had risen beyond what Aizen's level of perception:

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-After taking Ichigo's Mugetsu Aizen started blabbering about how the Hogyoku evolved him beyond the need for a zanpaktou. Was that true? No, it wasn't. The Hogyoku was crumpling away his powers because it didn't find him worthy:

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I fail to see why you insist on taking Aizen's words so literally. Nothing he says is reliable. He was nothing more than an overly arrogant fool with a god complex who thought he was better than everyone. To take so literally what someone like this has to say is a foolish act in itself.

There are a very select few in the Bleach universe who's words and facts we can trust. Aizen is not and was not one of them.

LOL this so funny is so amusing u ignoring what aizen said, considering that he was the one who started everything, he of all ppl know why he said the vizard is failed labrat,

Listen aizen hogyouku is incomplete and can't completely cross the boundaries between shinigami and hollow, that's why it requires him to try it into a level captain shinigami, and the result is almost succeed,

there is a reason why kisuke said "if i not use hogyouku then shinji and the others will be die" that's why when kisuke succeed reviving shinji and the others, the vizard become incomplete since an incomplete hogyouku was used to erase the boundaries,

if u want a perfect example for shinigami hollow power, u should take a look at kaname tousen that's what u called complete, unlike a failed pathetic group:scorps:

I'm sorry but if you won't listen to facts it doesn't matter how great the explanation is because like I said you're countering it with no evidence,

fact my ass that page show
gillian>adjuchas>vasta lorde LOL

1) I said deaths/defeats. Defeat is just as bad as death especially in bleach.
2) Did you even read all my responses? If you can't get it through your mind that it was simply a bad natural match-up then something is wrong with you.
3) No Aizen never states that, I just re-read the SS arc.
4) Please go and re-read/re-watch the fight. He didn't keep it on longer, he kept renewing his mask when part of it broke. Plus a fight in bleach is not even 2min tbh(exaggeration).

-defeat ? soifon and hitsugaya was about to get killed and the vizard save their ass once again plot always save the protagonist side in bleach

-bad match up my ass u just making excused since i completely counter that point "its not like hitsugaya can't turn halibel water into ice"

-yes he stated LOL he said in the hueco mundo arc when he create WONDERWEISE

-he keep it longer than all the vizard except for mashiro, since ichigo keep using that mask until it crumble completely

Now bleach hardcore fans? How so? we're only giving facts that are present, there are no signs of reading into to it too deep. You're the hardcore fan here because you're intent on believing the top 3 are Vasto Lorde even though you have no evidence to back up your claims whilst we do.

am not talking about you

 

[NLee]

LOL this so funny is so amusing u ignoring what aizen said, considering that he was the one who started everything, he of all ppl know why he said the vizard is failed labrat,

Listen aizen hogyouku is incomplete and can't completely cross the boundaries between shinigami and hollow, that's why it requires him to try it into a level captain shinigami, and the result is almost succeed,

there is a reason why kisuke said "if i not use hogyouku then shinji and the others will be die" that's why when kisuke succeed reviving shinji and the others, the vizard become incomplete since an incomplete hogyouku was used to erase the boundaries,

if u want a perfect example for shinigami hollow power, u should take a look at kaname tousen that's what u called complete, unlike a failed pathetic group:scorps:

Aizen was not the one who started everything. It was Urahara. Aizen didn't know squat about the Hogyoku. Urahara is the only one who truly knew what it could do. Even Aizen acknowledged this.

Aizen barely knew what the Hogyoku could do. Therefore what he said isn't the least bit accurate. Only someone who truly knows the Hogyoku can make statements regarding it: that person is Urahara and Urahara alone.

The fact that Aizen started blabbering about the Hogyoku evolving him beyond the need of a zanpaktou is already proof that he didn't know what in gods hell the Hogyoku was doing. He was talking out of his ass until Urahara came and told him the truth. That it was rejecting him.

If he was wrong about this, then that proves he's not right about everything Hogyoku related.

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

Aizen was not the one who started everything. It was Urahara. Aizen didn't know squat about the Hogyoku. Urahara is the only one who truly knew what it could do. Even Aizen acknowledged this.

Aizen barely knew what the Hogyoku could do. Therefore what he said isn't the least bit accurate. Only someone who truly knows the Hogyoku can make statements regarding it: that person is Urahara and Urahara alone.

The fact that Aizen started blabbering about the Hogyoku evolving him beyond the need of a zanpaktou is already proof that he didn't know what in gods hell the Hogyoku was doing. He was talking out of his ass until Urahara came and told him the truth. That it was rejecting him.

If he was wrong about this, then that proves he's not right about everything Hogyoku related.

eh ? long before kisuke created the hogyoku aizen already have one, but he know its not complete yet, and kisuke don't about that he think his hogyouku is complete

and also kisuke have no idea that the hogyouku power can be awaken in an instances from it seal if it fuse with captain class reiatsu level, kisuke said it will be completely awaken in 1 year, but he was wrong

there is a thing that kisuke know and don't know, just like aizen, but aizen is the one who start everythingU_U

 

[lubricati0n]

fact my ass that page show
gillian>adjuchas>vasta lorde LOL



-defeat ? soifon and hitsugaya was about to get killed and the vizard save their ass once again plot always save the protagonist side in bleach

-bad match up my ass u just making excused since i completely counter that point "its not like hitsugaya can't turn halibel water into ice"

-yes he stated LOL he said in the hueco mundo arc when he create WONDERWEISE

-he keep it longer than all the vizard except for mashiro, since ichigo keep using that mask until it crumble completely




am not talking about you

And so what if the page says that? You're getting off topic. VL does not equal arrancar. Arrancar is not just another name.

Soifon lost an arm and she was hardly phased by that. Hachi sacrificed his arm and wasn't phased by that. I don't get how they were nearly "killed". If I slashed your arm off you wouldn't yell "HELP IM DYING". You wouldn't even be close to dying.

You didn't counter my argument at all. Let me summarize my points.
-Hitsuguya simply had a bad match up. Water is a liquid in general and liquid can be freely moved especialyl by Tia. The fact that her power is based on water gives her the ability to naturally counter ice and then use it back on Hitsuguya.
-"its not like hitsugaya can't turn halibel water into ice"? Ice is a solidified state of water. If Tia fires water at Hitsuguya in which he can easily freeze he can't use it back on her. Do you ever see Ice moving by itself in thin air? The ice Hitsuguya freezes would drop back to the ground. Whereas Tia can turn ice back into water and bend it to her will. Clearly a bad match up.
-Even in pokemon, a water type would do more damage to and ice type compared to an ice type attacking a water type.

Therefore its pretty much elemental weakness.

Show me the page. Since you seem so exact about it link me to the page.

Firstly the harder the fight the faster it takes for the mask to diminish. Love, hachi, Rose, Lisa and Hiyori allowed their masks to fade so they could renew it. There time limit wasn't reached because if it was it would have broken into pieces like Ichigo's did during his first fight against Grimmjow.

Btw Tousen and the Visoreds are in no way similar. Tousen was more related to the arrancars. He used Resurrección. Also we don't know when Tousen got hollowfied but its obvious that Aizen had more control over the hogyoku when he hollowfied Tousen compared to when he hollowfied Shinji and the others.

Anyways I'm done here. I gave facts, if you won't accept that there's no proof of the top 3 being Vasto Lordes then what can I say am I right?

Peace.

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

And so what if the page says that? You're getting off topic. VL does not equal arrancar. Arrancar is not just another name.

yes it is,

let summarize it shall we ?

you guys read to deep about this matter while it can solved pretty simple,
listen if there a higher level hollow in hueco mundo, then do you think they will let aizen build such humongous fortress and act like king ?

not to mention barragan is the ruler before aizen, and yet he said there no more left for him to conquer

Soifon lost an arm and she was hardly phased by that. Hachi sacrificed his arm and wasn't phased by that. I don't get how they were nearly "killed". If I slashed your arm off you wouldn't yell "HELP IM DYING". You wouldn't even be close to dying.

without hacchi help soifon will die, thats all there is to it

You didn't counter my argument at all. Let me summarize my points.
-Hitsuguya simply had a bad match up. Water is a liquid in general and liquid can be freely moved especialyl by Tia. The fact that her power is based on water gives her the ability to naturally counter ice and then use it back on Hitsuguya.
-"its not like hitsugaya can't turn halibel water into ice"? Ice is a solidified state of water. If Tia fires water at Hitsuguya in which he can easily freeze he can't use it back on her. Do you ever see Ice moving by itself in thin air? The ice Hitsuguya freezes would drop back to the ground. Whereas Tia can turn ice back into water and bend it to her will. Clearly a bad match up.
-Even in pokemon, a water type would do more damage to and ice type compared to an ice type attacking a water type.

Therefore its pretty much elemental weakness.

-it doesn't matter since hitsugaya zanpakutou control the entire water/ice/air in the battle field, he could have easily over powred her but fail
-wrong hitsugaya clearly freeze the water and use it to his advantage, and yeah ice can move of its own, look hyorinmaru use the srrounding water to attackU_U
-i don't watch that trash anime

-nope both of them almost have the same ability, the one who decided the match is which one is stronger and a better fighter

Show me the page. Since you seem so exact about it link me to the page.

u can take a look by urself, when aizen create wonderweise he clearly stated it, that happen before the figh ichigo vs grimjo part 2 in karakura town

Firstly the harder the fight the faster it takes for the mask to diminish. Love, hachi, Rose, Lisa and Hiyori allowed their masks to fade so they could renew it. There time limit wasn't reached because if it was it would have broken into pieces like Ichigo's did during his first fight against Grimmjow.

the reason why they remove it before the time limit its because they afraid that they can't use to fight anymore at that time

Btw Tousen and the Visoreds are in no way similar. Tousen was more related to the arrancars. He used Resurrección. Also we don't know when Tousen got hollowfied but its obvious that Aizen had more control over the hogyoku when he hollowfied Tousen compared to when he hollowfied Shinji and the others.

LOL so now the vizard is not similiar with arrancar ?
don't kid with me kid
accept it

tousen : complete
vizard : incomplete

Anyways I'm done here. I gave facts, if you won't accept that there's no proof of the top 3 being Vasto Lordes then what can I say am I right?

Peace.

like i said fact my ass:shrug:
there is a legit proof that the top 3 is vasta lorde since they already in human form before aizen get to them.

ciao.U_U

 

[Floydical]

The VL discussion has been around for a long time and its an interesting one to be sure. TBH, I don't think any of the espada were VL because we were never told so. The 9th espada did say he was the only menos turned espada and I gathered that he meant all the others were adjucas when they were turned espada, since we saw many who were.

I went back to see Halibel's flashback in the manga and could not find it. One person said online that the flashback was anime only and not in the manga, can anyone confirm that? But the bottom line that this would mean the 'proof' that she was VL is irrelevant.

But the bottom line is that it was never stated that any of the espada were VL in fact, it was implied that any and all VL were stronger than the strongest of the captains (or on that level) so any VL made arrancar would be even stronger. I always thought the point of the resurrection was to return the espada to more like their adjucas form.

I just honestly feel that Kubo has set things up so that the VL will make an appearance later on. I mean we haven't seen half the captain's bankai's, so I gather that a random VL is on the level of captain 8's bankai, which is basically second only to the Commander. I think that perhaps the VL were so strong that they were beyond Aizen's level and he either avoided them or was not able to locate them. Anyway, I don't think any of the Espada were VL because they would have been much, much stronger in the end.

 

[NLee]

The VL discussion has been around for a long time and its an interesting one to be sure. TBH, I don't think any of the espada were VL because we were never told so. The 9th espada did say he was the only menos turned espada and I gathered that he meant all the others were adjucas when they were turned espada, since we saw many who were.

I went back to see Halibel's flashback in the manga and could not find it. One person said online that the flashback was anime only and not in the manga, can anyone confirm that? But the bottom line that this would mean the 'proof' that she was VL is irrelevant.

But the bottom line is that it was never stated that any of the espada were VL in fact, it was implied that any and all VL were stronger than the strongest of the captains (or on that level) so any VL made arrancar would be even stronger. I always thought the point of the resurrection was to return the espada to more like their adjucas form.

I just honestly feel that Kubo has set things up so that the VL will make an appearance later on. I mean we haven't seen half the captain's bankai's, so I gather that a random VL is on the level of captain 8's bankai, which is basically second only to the Commander. I think that perhaps the VL were so strong that they were beyond Aizen's level and he either avoided them or was not able to locate them. Anyway, I don't think any of the Espada were VL because they would have been much, much stronger in the end.

Thank You.

How I wish there were more level-headed people like you in the Bleach section more often

 

[ez1ollie]

doesn't matter they were still a shinigami no matter how u look at it, it just a group name. even aizen called them a failed mock arrancar,

and the vasta lorde is just a hollow who obtain human form, and with hogyouku aizen made it posssible for adjuchas to become one but incomplete, they don't actually obtain shingami power, its just their power is sealed inside their sword, its all aizen doing.

and i still don't see why the top 3 esapda is not a vasta lordeU_U




yes that link doesn't change anything since it fail to give a legit proof that arrancar is not a vasta lorde,

i stand still
gllian>adjuchas>vasta lorde/arrancar

you guys read to deep about this matter while it can solved pretty simple,
listen if there a higher level hollow in hueco mundo, then do you think they will let aizen build such humongous fortress and act like king ?

not to mention barragan is the ruler before aizen, and yet he said there no more left for him to conquer

You say Arrancar are VL, so every Arrancar is one?
So is this one an Arrancar?

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Or how about the one Chad fought or Isshin or the two who were trying to kill Inoue? Aplica those were Arrancar, but they weren't even at Lietenant level. If this isn't proof that Arrancar aren't VL then idk what is...

 

[NLee]

You say Arrancar are VL, so every Arrancar is one?
So is this one an Arrancar?

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Or how about the one Chad fought or Isshin or the two who were trying to kill Inoue? Aplica those were Arrancar, but they weren't even at Lietenant level. If this isn't proof that Arrancar aren't VL then idk what is...

Definitely not a Vasto Lorde, but she sure is hot

 

[System001]

Harriebl was a vasto wasn't she?

 

[mlickko]

Harriebl was a vasto wasn't she?

We have no proof about it whatsoever so we can only speculate.

 

[NLee]

Harriebl was a vasto wasn't she?

Assuming there are no outside canon sources such as databooks and such, I don't believe there was any mention of Halibel being a Vasto Lorde in the manga

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

You say Arrancar are VL, so every Arrancar is one?
So is this one an Arrancar?

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Or how about the one Chad fought or Isshin or the two who were trying to kill Inoue? Aplica those were Arrancar, but they weren't even at Lietenant level. If this isn't proof that Arrancar aren't VL then idk what is...

they are gillian and aizen boost their power with hogyouku, or we can say weak gillian definitely not on grimjow level when he's still a gillian,

while in other hand the top 3 espada is already vasta lorde when aizen boost them with hogyoku,

by now most of us already realized that vasta lorde is not gonna come out, or we can say we already see them LOL

 

[Better]

they are gillian and aizen boost their power with hogyouku, or we can say weak gillian definitely not on grimjow level when he's still a gillian,

while in other hand the top 3 espada is already vasta lorde when aizen boost them with hogyoku,

by now most of us already realized that vasta lorde is not gonna come out, or we can say we already see them LOL

thread is over 2 months old, lets not try and revive it xd