Theory: Vasto Lorde

[mlickko]

Soo, i know that there were threads about Vasto Lorde but let me ask differently.

During Arrancar arc, Toshiro explained to us that Vasto Lorde is an evolved form of Adjuchas and that it's the most powerfull form of the fusion of Hollows.

BUT we actually never saw a Vasto Lorde with our own eyes. You may protest that Espada or some of Espada were in fact VL but there wasn't given any solid proof. At Toshiro's explaining we saw a silhouette of VL:

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and we can clearly see a pair of thorns.

Now, there wasn't anyone among Espada that had thorns...maybe aside from Ulquiorra in his Segunda Etapa:

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There was a debate, if there was a possibility that Ichigo in his H2 form was actually VL as he resembled a VL the best:

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VL should be the strongest Hollow...and if we take the possibility of Ichigo in this form being a VL we can easily say that if all VL should be that strong, Gotei 13 would be in crisis. Why? In this form Ichigo's power levels were....
I would say he was slightly weaker than in his post-Dangai form and that is holly-molly crazy strong. WTH . His intelligence was low but w/e. And btw i don't think that Ichigo's H2 form was a plot hole...

Now, my real question is this: Why didn't we see any VL and do you think we will ever see them, or will they be forgotten? I would really like to see VL because in my opinion Espada weren't VL.

Peace :izuna:

 

[JirayiaRIPforever]

I think staark and Ulquiorra were, Look at it this way, NO OTHER being so far has had staarks ability to split his soul and power and STILL kill any hollow that comes near him with just his spiritual pressure.

He was deemed the primera by Aizen and Strong enough to take on ukitake and Shunsui, I would say he is a Vasto lorde.

Heres probably the biggest reason i think Staark is a vasto lorde

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Staark seemed stronger than ALMOST ANY captain,And he looked just like a human even before becoming an arrancar.

 

[NLee]

Even before Ulquiorra's Segunda Etapa he still resembles a Vasto Lorde, albeit only half his mask


I find it unlikely that Ichigo in his Hollow form was a Vasto Lorde. I mean, he can't be one. By definition, Vasto Lorde are fusions of Hollows who gradually evolve up the chain of Menos. I don't see how Ichigo could have been a Vasto Lorde even if he looked like one. It doesn't fit with what a Vasto Lorde is suppose to be

 

[JirayiaRIPforever]

Ichigo's hollow surfaced when he died, It could be a vasto lorde, due to it coming into being when ichigo was becoming a hollow and Perhaps a Soul reaper's zanpaktou absorbs some of the hollows souls and when ichigo became a hollow he had already killed a LOT of hollows, Weird theory but maybe haha

 

[mlickko]

If someone can be a VL without having thorns then yes, Stark prolly had enough power to be one. About Ichigo...i myseld ain't sure about it, just basing it on resemblence with silhouette. That's why i would like to see a VL...(i mean, in the actual scene there would be said "i am VL" or simply some being with proof he is VL) and some explanation about Ichigo's H2 form as well...
Kubo said he will try to explain most things we consider plot holes, so i hope this will be one of it. wease:

 

[|KirA|]

Stark was a Vasto Lorde and everyone up from 8 or 9 (cant remember anymore) I mean the guy with two faceballs that could mimic other people. he said he was the only one not vasto lord.

BTW: Just showing one Vasto Lorde that very much resembles Ulu doesnt mean everyone has to look like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Adjuchas upwards every hollow looks differently! Its like an evolution: Cells, Animals, Homo Errectus/Caveman (Vasto Lord), Human (Arrancer)

 

[The Riddlerr]

I honestly believe the top 4 Espada were all Vasto Lorde's... I mean, didn't Aizen specifically tell them they couldn't release their powers within the vicinity of Las Noches or they would destroy it?

And plus - I thought it was said Hali was a VL? And if Barragan was really the King of Hollows, then he has to have been a VL... As for Stark... Well, he's Stark.. Haha, nuff said.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Soo, i know that there were threads about Vasto Lorde but let me ask differently.

During Arrancar arc, Toshiro explained to us that Vasto Lorde is an evolved form of Adjuchas and that it's the most powerfull form of the fusion of Hollows.

BUT we actually never saw a Vasto Lorde with our own eyes. You may protest that Espada or some of Espada were in fact VL but there wasn't given any solid proof. At Toshiro's explaining we saw a silhouette of VL:

You must be registered for see links

and we can clearly see a pair of thorns.

Now, there wasn't anyone among Espada that had thorns...maybe aside from Ulquiorra in his Segunda Etapa:

You must be registered for see links

There was a debate, if there was a possibility that Ichigo in his H2 form was actually VL as he resembled a VL the best:

You must be registered for see links

VL should be the strongest Hollow...and if we take the possibility of Ichigo in this form being a VL we can easily say that if all VL should be that strong, Gotei 13 would be in crisis. Why? In this form Ichigo's power levels were....
I would say he was slightly weaker than in his post-Dangai form and that is holly-molly crazy strong. WTH . His intelligence was low but w/e. And btw i don't think that Ichigo's H2 form was a plot hole...

Now, my real question is this: Why didn't we see any VL and do you think we will ever see them, or will they be forgotten? I would really like to see VL because in my opinion Espada weren't VL.

Peace :izuna:

espada and enraged ichigo (vs ulquiorra) where all vasto lordes i think

 

[NLee]

Stark was a Vasto Lorde and everyone up from 8 or 9 (cant remember anymore) I mean the guy with two faceballs that could mimic other people. he said he was the only one not vasto lord.

BTW: Just showing one Vasto Lorde that very much resembles Ulu doesnt mean everyone has to look like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Adjuchas upwards every hollow looks differently! Its like an evolution: Cells, Animals, Homo Errectus/Caveman (Vasto Lord), Human (Arrancer)

That's not true. Aaroniero said he was the only Gillian Arrancar in the Espada:

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He didn't say he was the only non-Vasto Lorde

Based on the silhouette given by Kubo, Yammy was an Adjuchas. So was Grimmjow:

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___________________________________________________________

Considering Grimmjow was #6, I'd bet Zommari and Szayel were also Adjuchas since they were below Grimmjow in rank. I find it hard to believe a Vasto Lorde Arrancar would rank below an Adjuchas. Hell, I'd even classify Nnoitra as an Adjuchas.

If I absolutely had to choose which of the Espada were Vasto Lorde, it'd be restricted to #4 and maybe above. But even then I'd be more willing to call Ulquiorra a Vasto Lorde before Halibel, Barragan, and even Stark. No matter how strong the Top 3 were I still have my doubts

You're right about not all Vasto Lorde resembling the silhouette shown by Kubo, but as far as Ulquiorra is concerned it's a dead match. Plus, think about it. He was apparently the only one that Aizen particularly favored out of all the Espada. Ulquiorra was also, apparently, the most wisest, sophisticated, level-headed and rational of all the Espada. This in itself doesn't prove anything but it does suggest a more higher mental/psychological development from Hollow to Shinigami. My age-old theory is that Ulquiorra was a failed Vasto Lorde Arrancar. Because of this he turned out weaker than his full potential, but he was still powerful enough to rank at #4.

I also don't see any other reason why Ulquiorra was the only one to reach a Segundo Etapa stage:

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I admit there could be other reasons to explain this, but the most apparent explanation is a good one to go by - Occam's Razor.

Not to mention Ulquiorra killed Ichigo. Ichigo died. He didn't get knocked out and woke up. He died:

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I mean, look, it doesn't matter what kind of Human or Shinigami you are. No one can survive a hole the size of your head in your chest. He died and came back by a plot device a.k.a his Hollow Stage 2. If Kubo didn't want to convey Ulquiorra's exceptional power then he wouldn't have had him kill his main character. Even without Ichigo's death Kubo could still have revealed Ichigo's Hollow Stage 2



I suppose it's always possible for the Top 3 Espada to be Vasto Lorde as well. I'm not denying that (although I do have my personal reservations). I'm just saying it seems like there's a lot more support for the fact that Ulquiorra was a Vasto Lorde than any of the other Top 3 Espada.

 

[alipjana]

um..halibel was a vl before joining aizen...

 

[NLee]

um..halibel was a vl before joining aizen...

And that's an incredibly pathetic portrayal of a Vasto Lorde considering Hitsugaya was able to fight her on even ground.

Even more so considering she was an Arrancar

 

[|KirA|]

And that's an incredibly pathetic portrayal of a Vasto Lorde considering Hitsugaya was able to fight her on even ground.

Even more so considering she was an Arrancar

Yeah sorry i knew this guy with two ballfaces said something of being the only "something" thought it was vasto lord, but it was gillian
Well then it must be 4 and above, but my argument is still plausible.

 

[Naruto super saiyan]

Soo, i know that there were threads about Vasto Lorde but let me ask differently.

During Arrancar arc, Toshiro explained to us that Vasto Lorde is an evolved form of Adjuchas and that it's the most powerfull form of the fusion of Hollows.

BUT we actually never saw a Vasto Lorde with our own eyes. You may protest that Espada or some of Espada were in fact VL but there wasn't given any solid proof. At Toshiro's explaining we saw a silhouette of VL:

You must be registered for see links

and we can clearly see a pair of thorns.

Now, there wasn't anyone among Espada that had thorns...maybe aside from Ulquiorra in his Segunda Etapa:

You must be registered for see links

There was a debate, if there was a possibility that Ichigo in his H2 form was actually VL as he resembled a VL the best:

You must be registered for see links

VL should be the strongest Hollow...and if we take the possibility of Ichigo in this form being a VL we can easily say that if all VL should be that strong, Gotei 13 would be in crisis. Why? In this form Ichigo's power levels were....
I would say he was slightly weaker than in his post-Dangai form and that is holly-molly crazy strong. WTH . His intelligence was low but w/e. And btw i don't think that Ichigo's H2 form was a plot hole...

Now, my real question is this: Why didn't we see any VL and do you think we will ever see them, or will they be forgotten? I would really like to see VL because in my opinion Espada weren't VL.

Peace :izuna:

it kinda looks like ulquiorra tho :shrug: but i think ichigo h2 looks like a VL but im concerned bout dis nigga

Spoiler

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[alipjana]

no...stark and ulquira nobody were vasto lorde..the only person who was confirmed to be a vasto lorde is halibel.....

 

[Better]

VL quincys

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

almost all espada is vasta lorde, i mean vasta lorde is just another name for arrancar,
ulqiorra,halibel,barragan and stark already become vasta lorde before they meet aizen,

the rest become vasta lorde thanks to the hogyouku

 

[NLee]

almost all espada is vasta lorde, i mean vasta lorde is just another name for arrancar,
ulqiorra,halibel,barragan and stark already become vasta lorde before they meet aizen,

the rest become vasta lorde thanks to the hogyouku

No. Absolutely wrong.

Vasto Lorde is not another name for Arrancar.

Vasto Lorde are the highest class of Menos Grande.
Arrancar are Hollows who have lost their mask and have attained Shinigami powers.

Grimmjow was an Adjuchas. Just because he was turned into an Arrancar does not make him a Vasto Lorde. He's still an ex-Adjuchas Arrancar. Same goes for Yammy, and likely Zommari and Szayel. Aaroniero was a Gillian before being made an Arrancar. It doesn't make him a Vasto Lorde. It makes him an ex-Gillian Arrancar.

I explained this in my post above.

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

if there is a higher level than stark aizen would have recruit them in,

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after adjudchas, its vasta lorde, guess what grimjow is adjuchas then with the hyogoku he turned into arrancar/vasta lorde, its just another name LOL

"the strength of a single vasta lorde is above that of any captain"

hype ?
well the original vasta lorde ulqioarra halibel barragan and stark all of them trash their opponent and it need 2 captain level fighters to handle them, that's settle it,

its just another name

 

[JirayiaRIPforever]

No. Absolutely wrong.

Vasto Lorde is not another name for Arrancar.

Vasto Lorde are the highest class of Menos Grande.
Arrancar are Hollows who have lost their mask and have attained Shinigami powers.

Grimmjow was an Adjuchas. Just because he was turned into an Arrancar does not make him a Vasto Lorde. He's still an ex-Adjuchas Arrancar. Same goes for Yammy, and likely Zommari and Szayel. Aaroniero was a Gillian before being made an Arrancar. It doesn't make him a Vasto Lorde. It makes him an ex-Gillian Arrancar.

I explained this in my post above.

not true, you cannot prove that grimmjow was not a vasto lorde, i have my doubts about him being weaker than Nnoritora, When he first apperaed NOT in his ressurection form, rukia and hitsugaya noted of his unrealistic spiritual pressure,

 

[NLee]

if there is a higher level than stark aizen would have recruit them in,

You must be registered for see images

after adjudchas, its vasta lorde, guess what grimjow is adjuchas then with the hyogoku he turned into arrancar/vasta lorde, its just another name LOL

No, you don't get it. Vasto Lorde is not the same thing as an Arrancar. They are completely separate things.


A Vasto Lorde is a Hollow. The strongest type of Menos Grande but still only a Hollow.
An Arrancar is a Hollow that has attained Shinigami powers.
Vasto Lorde do not have Shinigami powers. They are still only Hollows.

well the original vasta lorde ulqioarra halibel barragan and stark all of them trash their opponent and it need 2 captain level fighters to handle them, that's settle it,

its just another name

No. It's not another name...

What difference does it make if Stark, Barragan and Halibel trashed their opponents? That doesn't change a single thing. They were made into Arrancars by Aizen. Whether or not they were Vasto Lorde before becoming Arrancars is what matters. Vasto Lorde and Arrancar are not one in the same. It's like saying Captains are the same as Vizards which is completely wrong.

-Captains are the strongest of the Shinigami, but they are still 100% Shinigami.
-Vizards are Shinigami who have attained Hollow powers.

It's the exact same comparison:
-Vasto Lorde are the strongest of the Hollow, but they are still 100% Hollows.
-Arrancars are Hollows who have attained Shinigami powers.

Honestly, anyone who follows Bleach would clearly understand this. It's not a hard concept.

not true, you cannot prove that grimmjow was not a vasto lorde, i have my doubts about him being weaker than Nnoritora, When he first apperaed NOT in his ressurection form, rukia and hitsugaya noted of his unrealistic spiritual pressure,

I posted the manga pages where it proves Grimmjow was an Adjuchas before becoming an Arrancar on the last page.

At least have the decency to read the entire thread before retorting. Especially if it's only a 2 pages thread.