JirayiaRIPforever
Active member
That doesn't prove anything, We only saw him in his adjuchas form, and i did read it before posting, we will have to wait and see
Theory: Vasto Lorde
- Thread starter mlickko
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That doesn't prove anything, We only saw him in his adjuchas form, and i did read it before posting, we will have to wait and see
lubricati0n
Active member
That is the point.. We saw him in his adjuchas form and then later as an Arrancar. Do you think he was an Arrancar that turned into an adjuchas?
Arrancar is defined as a hollow that has ripped off their mask. The higher level menos the stronger the arrancar.
-Therefore Grimmjow who was a adjuchas removed his mask and became the 6th espada. Whereas Aaroniero who was only a Gillian became the 9th Espada.
Vasta Lorde is pretty much the highest level of hollow which evolves from adjuchas. It is not the same as an arrancar.
JirayiaRIPforever
Active member
i know what arrancars, and the different classes of menos are... I NEVER said vasto lorde was the same as an arrancar because its absolutely not the same thing. just because we saw him in adjuchas form but not vasto lorde form doesn't mean he didn't become a vasto lorde
I doubt that Grimmjow was not a vasto lorde, and you cant prove that he was or he wasn't until its stated what he was before becoming an arrancar,
lubricati0n
Active member
lol you just proved yourself wrong.
Vasto Lorde is the final form of hollow and Hitsuguya even stated the power-level of a Vasto Lorde far surpasses a captains and that if Aizen could assemble 10 of them, Soul Society would be doomed.
Now Grimmjow was the 6th espada and lost to Ichigo who is pretty much at captain level(people overrate Ichigo tbh). The 5th espada Nnoitra was defeated by Kenpachi. If Grimmjow is VL then that means so is Nnoitra. But none of them far surpassed there opponents power levels. There battles were pretty much evenly matched.
JirayiaRIPforever
Active member
first of all he only assembled 6 at best, and Ichigo really isn't overrated that much, Kenpachi, is kenpachi... GL KILLING HIM, and i think that grimmjow could have beaten Nnoitra, and um staark,Barragan,Hallibel all FAR surpassed their opponents power levels. you have said nothing what so ever that proves Grimmjow or higher espada were not vasto lorde as of yet
lubricati0n
Active member
That doesn't make sense. Kenpachi is Kenpachi? He still dies and that's all there is to it.
Secondly, Kyoraku never used his bankai. Next, Hitsuguya was up against an opponent that would obviously beat him. I mean Hallibel pretty much reversed everything Hitsuguya did. Finally Barragan's ability was a tad bit OP. His Respira ability was like smoke except he could control it. He spread it anywhere he wanted and rot through even Kido. He was finally defeated by his own ability which shows us how broken his ability is.
Totsuka No Tsurugi
Active member
manga link or it doesn't happen
-all aizen did seal their power inside their sword therefore they were vasta lorde
-LOL captain is not a race, it was a title, unlike vasta lorde and adjuchas it was a race or a kind that on completely different level than adjuchas
-i still say its another name, the hogyoku only forced the evolution from adjuchas to vasta lorde, but since the top 3 espada already a vasta lorde, aizen only seal their power inside a zanpakutou in order to increase their battle prowess, remember that the top 3 espada is a lot more powerful than any captain,
-and yeah i follow bleach from the very 1st chapter, and i don't any problem that arrancar is just the same like vasta lorde, there is a reason why aizen only able to find 3 vasta lorde,the rest is just a powerful adujchas which turned into arrancar/vasta lorde via hogyoku
-all toushiro said is vasta lorde is the next form/level for adjuchas, and yeah gromjow is an adjuchas but with the help of the hogyoku he manage to evolve into a vasta lorde but incomplete since its not happen naturally, arrancar is juts another name
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lubricati0n
Active member
That doesn't even make sense. The Hogyoku can force a hollow to become arrancar thats all there is to it lmao. It doesn't cause adjuchas to evolve to Vasto Lorde.
Secondly arrancar is not a name. An arrancar is a hollow that has attained shinigami powers.
Btw since you know what Hitsuguya said you should know Grimmjow isn't on the power level of Vasto Lorde.
Totsuka No Tsurugi
Active member
why ? its stated in the manga
arrancar is more like another NAME for the vasta lorde, its not actually a name its more like another way to call it
that's why i said only the top 3 espada can be considered vasta lorde since they are already obtain human form before aizen get them
Seriously man. There is no way to make it simpler. This is as simple as it gets.
You say no manga link or it doesn't happen? Fine, manga link me why you think Vasto Lorde are the same as Arrancars.
The fact is Vasto Lorde are only Hollows. I don't see how you aren't getting this.
Vasto Lorde are the Hollow equivalent of Captains. They are the strongest of the Menos Grande.
Arrancars are the Hollow equivalent of Vizards. They have crossed the line separating Hollow from Shinigami.
You want a link that proves that Vasto Lorde are still 100% Hollow? Here:
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You must be registered for see links
Read these two pages carefully.
-Menos Grande are Hollows
-Vasto Lorde are the strongest sub-class of the Menos Grande
-Vasto Lorde are Hollows
This is 1+1 logic.
lubricati0n
Active member
No it is not? The only thing the manga states is that there are 3 stages of hollow. Gillian, Adjuchas and Vasto Lorde. The manga also states that the hogyoku has the ability of Hollowfication/Arrancarification. Hence why Aizen was able to force Shinji and the rest to develop hollows. They are called Visoreds aka Shinigami with Hollow powers. An arrancar is no different, it's a hollow with shinigami powers.
Btw if arrancar was another name for vasto lorde then I should call a Visored a shinigami.
Totsuka No Tsurugi
Active member
LOL vizard is simply a group name, there fore they were still a shinigami
i still don't see why u can't call the top 3 espada a vasta lorde while the meet all the conditionU_U
that link doesn't change anything, no matter how u look at it the vasta lorde resemble the arrancar there fore only the top 3 espada is actually have the power to to be called vasata lorde
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Vizard are just a group name?
They ended up calling themselves Vizards but that became the definition of what they are - Shinigami who crossed the line and gained Hollow powers. Ichigo was a Vizard as well because by definition he was one of them.
-Vizard are Shinigami who gained Hollow powers
-Arrancar are Hollows who gained Shinigami power
-Captains are the strongest of the Shinigami
-Vasto Lorde are the strongest of the Hollow
You see the trend?
Vasto Lorde are not Arrancar
If you think Vasto Lorde and Arrancar are one in the same, then that means you think Shinigami and Vizard are the same, which is straight up wrong
You really are something else. The link doesn't change anything?
You are the biggest hypocrite I've seen on these forums. You're telling me that it doesn't exist unless there's a manga page? Well I gave you a manga page. Now you say it doesn't change anything when everything in those pages directly prove you wrong.
Clearly you didn't read it. You're seriously going by the pictures in the panels instead of the dialogue? Did you read a single word of what Hitsugaya was explaining? What matters isn't the pictures, it's the words spoken.
You're seriously unbelievable. Evidence and facts are right in front of you, yet you're too stubborn and ignorant to open your eyes and see them.
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Totsuka No Tsurugi
Active member
doesn't matter they were still a shinigami no matter how u look at it, it just a group name. even aizen called them a failed mock arrancar,
and the vasta lorde is just a hollow who obtain human form, and with hogyouku aizen made it posssible for adjuchas to become one but incomplete, they don't actually obtain shingami power, its just their power is sealed inside their sword, its all aizen doing.
and i still don't see why the top 3 esapda is not a vasta lordeU_U
yes that link doesn't change anything since it fail to give a legit proof that arrancar is not a vasta lorde,
i stand still
gllian>adjuchas>vasta lorde/arrancar
you guys read to deep about this matter while it can solved pretty simple,
listen if there a higher level hollow in hueco mundo, then do you think they will let aizen build such humongous fortress and act like king ?
not to mention barragan is the ruler before aizen, and yet he said there no more left for him to conquer
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No, they are beyond Shinigami. The fact that they've crossed the line that separates Shinigami from Hollows is in itself fact that they are no longer "just" Shinigami. They are something more. They are Vizard.
It's the same with Hollows. Once a Hollow crosses the barrier and gains Shinigami powers they are no longer "just" Hollow. They are something more. They are Arrancar.
Yes, they do obtain Shinigami powers. The act of sealing their powers in their zanpaktou is itself obtaining Shinigami powers.
Totsuka No Tsurugi
Active member
LOL and yet the so called vaizard can use their shinigami power, such as kidou, shikai and bankai, while the arrancar can't use any shinigami power
lubricati0n
Active member
Visored is not a group name. Visored is the name for an individual who is a shinigami that has attained Hollow powers aka hollowfication. Obviously Aizen called them failed mock arrancar because they were his test subjects.
Yes their power is sealed in a sword. But what is that sword called? A zanpakuto. Who wields zanpakutos? shinigami. Also when an arrancar performs Resurrección they are releasing their power from the zanpakuto. Who does that as well? shinigami.
Next one of Aizen's goals were to break the barrier between shinigami and hollow and how did he do that? He used the hogyoku to force hollow to attain shinigami powers aka arrancar. He also used the hogyoku to force shinigami to attain hollow powers aka Visored.
Do you have any idea what a shinigami is? Kido is not only used by shinigami hence why there is a kido corps. Next its compulsory for captains to have shikai and bankai except kenpachi but a shinigami that hasn't achieved shikai doesn't mean he/she is not a shinigami. If you say their not then what are you calling the Rukia in the initial chapters who had no shikai?LOL and yet the so called vaizard can use their shinigami power, such as kidou, shikai and bankai, while the arrancar can't use any shinigami power
Next by shinigami power we obviously mean a zanpakuto and the ability to cap their power and release at any time they want just like a shinigami.
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Totsuka No Tsurugi
Active member
its a group name, they named it them self, while their creator aizen called them a failed mock arrancar
the different is the shinigami zanpakutou is their partner, but the arrancar zanpakutou is their own power sealed inside, they don't need to undergo that battle in their realm BS, since its was their own original power
we are talking about their power "shinigami power" not shinigami definition