RSM! (Yang Chakra Mode Theory)
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FreeTanner17
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This right here is honestly the dumbest comment I've seen all year
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I agree with you and the other guy about RSM. He would have to go througj the dame process as Madara to get Hago's chakra or recieve it from Hago himself. Although I stick to him unlocking the Avatar on his own. Since Indra himself had Susano'o and Ashura awakened power putting him equal to Indra this is a safe assumption. Also the fact that his chakra "bloomed" to such high levels gives hint to a sudden flash of immense power like when Naruto first unlocked his Bijuu Mode. He is also the only one with a standalone Avatar. No other RSM user used an Avatar.
As for Kurama, the only logical reason for this is the only common factor and thats the power of cooperation. Both Minato and Naruto had perfect harmony with the Kyuubi. Ashura was praised for his cooperation of his people and how he lead them. The circle on the belly represents Ninshu. Perfect harmony utilizing chakra.
My conclusion is that it has no specific origin other than symbolizing Ninshu. Everything else doesnt make sense lol.
I'm pretty sure Kishi made them look alike for story purposes only and the sake of the whole destiny, ninshu thing.
He even put major differences in the design. Ashura's Avatar looks like an Ashura, not a fox. It has a Cloak, not tails. And Ashura is not on flames he has his normal clothes on with no adverse effects. He was not a Kyuubi Jin.
Also I'm certain he cant shoot a Bijiu Dama out of that helmet lol
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It starts from the top of the neck like a cape and sprouts resembling tails. Its not from the waist. And its clear that its not Kurama. The only real connecting factor I see is the Ninshu. Not Kurama. Ashura is not in a bijuu mode.
If Ashura had perfect harmony with Kyuubi he would have mentionef it. Much like The One tailed remembered the Old Man the moment he and Garra first worked as a team
The line segments with the "tails" converge at the same spot, which is relatively close to the circular sealing pattern that Asura's Avatar has and that's very similar to Naruto's own Rikudou Kurama Avatar. Of course, Asura's looks more humanoid, so it's still relatively different.
Its not only relatively different, its very different. I can clearly tell that is not Kurama. We've seen Yin and Yang Kurama. And the "Ashura" Kurama as shown above. Its obvious that is Ashura's stand alone strength.
Kishi designed them similar on purpose.
The Demon Hawk
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Dumb people always think others are dumb. You think I'm not aware of the looks of Ashura Avatar and Kurama Avatar? LMFAO. There was absolutely no need to show the scans. I've seen them very well and I've posted my comment after seeing that. FYI, you see whether they are similar or not by the face. I don't see how Ashura Avatar's face looks anything at all like Kurama. If Kurama was sealed inside Ashura, where is the Kurama face?
If I say that I look nothing like you, will you show me how we both have the same skin color, the same two legs and two hands, two eyes etc? Or will you show me that we don't have the same face, that's why we don't look alike?
Yeah, he could've received Hagoromo's chakra. That's an assumption but not out of possibility.
Very well. But you'll never have any close to viable explanation about how he can unlock an Avatar on his own without any mode.
Indra had Susanoo because of MS. How did Ashura get his Avatar? Without any mode, it makes no sense at all.
We don't know whether this was pre-MS or post-MS Indra that Hagoromo was talking about. So it's not really safe.
I don't think you're drawing the correct resemblance. Naruto unlocking his Bijuu Mode granted him Kurama's chakra i.e. a different type of chakra, which granted the Avatar.
Yeah. But on the other hand, no other non-RSM body user used Godoudama. So it's 50-50.
That's not logical though. Killer Bee also had perfect harmony.
But how does that make sense. Kurama is special, that's not debatable though...
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The Kyuubi is more special then all the others. Hagaromo implied this.
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I see Cooperation in Ninshu as the only connection. Kishi obviously just made them look alike without having any REAL connection other than Naruto being his descendent. Its all just Symbols connecting the two nothing more.
As for Ashura's mode. We know for a fact RSM does not grant a chakra cloak. Madara, Hagaromo, and Hamura ALL use RSM and do not have a Chakra Shroud. Naruto's RSM straight from Hagaromo is a base looking mode.
Also Ashura is not on flames. He is in normal garments. I stick with him being able to do it without help from Hagoromo because no one else has that power. He is literally the only person with a mode like that, and Hagaromo stated that he unlocked Power equal Indra's. Not stating as fact, just what I believe.
And I am not saying Naruto and Ashura wentbthrough the same process. I am using a specific example to prove a point. The moment Naruto gained access to Kuramas chakra he literally lit on fire in a new mode. And when he unlocked bijuu mode an even greater burst of Chakra happened with new power. Its not far fetched to think of this when Hago says "bloomed" and equal to Indra. Indra was stronger than Ashura and his whole army of followers. Ashura had a sudden rise in power to the extent that he too can combat armies.
The Demon Hawk
Active member
Yes, I already mentioned this.
Yes, but Naruto never had anything to do with "Ninshu". I think the only possible connection is the Uzumaki sealing technique that Minato used to seal Kurama. That explains why both Naruto and Minato could attain the same Chakra Mode and Avatar.
Well, Ashura didn't have a chakra cloak. He only had the Avatar.
They all use Rikodou Senjutsu whereas Naruto's RSM is a mode utilizing Rikodou Senjutsu. They're both different. Naruto didn't gain the horns and different skin color with his RSM, so RSM is different from the Rikodou Senjutsu that Madara utilized. Perhaps, it's because of Rikodou Senjutsu chakra + Naruto's own chakra which is what makes it different.
Right.
Sure, since we're both assuming, I'm not going to argue that.
I already addressed this. We don't know whether Hagoromo was talking about pre-MS or post-MS Indra. If Indra awakened his MS after his father's death, then it means Hagoromo was talking about pre-MS Indra, which means Ashura awakened power equal to 3T Indra.
Fair enough. I'm only sharing my assumption which I believe could be the case.
Sure. But I'm not talking about that. I'm referring to the fact that Naruto could attain a Chakra Mode and an Avatar because of Kurama's chakra i.e. a different chakra which he could utilize. He could activate and deactivate it by switching the chakras. Ashura's chakra bloom doesn't grant him two different chakras. His chakra will remain same, so he can't activate or deactivate his power if it is based on his own chakra.
Indra used Susanoo through MS (which is basically a dojutsu mode). How could Ashura use an Avatar without any mode? That doesn't make sense to me.
This is another reason why I believe Ashura awakened power equal to 3T Indra. Because Hagoromo said that Ashura could equal Indra with his army of followers. This only seems possible if we're talking about 3T Indra. If this was MS Indra, then there was no way for Ashura to equal MS Indra even if he had a thousand followers. PS would crush them all like ants.
Chaosmark101
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Making this short. Regarding Indra & Ashura.
1. Asura has no "mode" no transformation. None was ever shown for him, & he literally has nothing to indicate he had any at all.
I'd say an easy way to look at this, kinda like back in that thread where you asked me to talk about Naruto's different chakras, is just look at him & then his predecessors. Naruto has 5 Modes, Hashirama has 1, & Asura had 0. Like I said there because they are closer to the sage.
(Ashura literally being his son) They're more powerful without the need for these "modes".
2. Ashura = Indra. There's nothing else to it.
The Demon Hawk
Active member
Well, this is baseless and completely your opinion. You have no resolute proof that when Ashura was portrayed battling Indra, he wasn't in any mode. Or that Ashura's Avatar isn't derived from any mode. Or that Ashura doesn't have any mode at all...
I don't understand how the number of modes determine anything related to the power. Give Hashirama 10 modes weaker than his SM, and he'll still be the same power.
That's like saying Indra could awaken Susanoo without MS. Kinda senseless if you ask me. Yes I agree that Indra and Ashura will be more powerful than their successors due to being closer to the Sage. But not to such a level, there won't be such a massive disparity. For example, Ashura is strong enough to rival Indra on his own whereas Naruto isn't strong enough to battle even MS Sasuke.
And it gets even more problematic if you relate Indra and Ashura's transmigrants. Because Indra's transmigrants can still attain Indra's power i.e. PS, even if it is a weaker version totally on their own, but Ashura's reincarnations can't. They can't go anything above SM, which is not a weaker version of Ashura's "mode", but rather a completely inferior mode.
That's because the Sage said it, right? But how can you assuredly tell which version of Indra he was talking about? What if Indra was 3T at that time and awakened MS after Hagoromo's death? Is it out of possibility? I don't think so.
Chaosmark101
Active member
No. Zero feats of a mode = No mode. If kishi wanted us to know Ashura had a mode he would have shown in to us. Just because he can spawn an avatar doesn't mean a mode is required at all.
You missed the point man. The point was referring that Base Naruto < Base Hashirama. & Base Hashirama < Base Ashura. Naruto needed these modes where as to be compete at Hashirama's level where as Hashirama does not.
What? Indra was the progenitor of the Sharingan. He most likely had all its techniques, an MS, & a Rikudo PS. Your looking at this wrong looking into "3T" & "MS" when all this is pretty insignificant to their rikudo chakra.
Susanoo is an MS ability that's awakened when the user can use both their other abilities in the other 2 eyes. Indra passed down a doujutsu. While Ashura did not. He didn't even have a mode too pass down. He only had strong chakra.
No not because the sage said it. Because when Both Ashura & Indra fought each other with their full power they both died.
The Demon Hawk
Active member
Really? So zero feats of any ninjutsu = no ninjutsu? Zero feats for MS techs for Indra = no MS techs? :lol
This logic is really not supporting your argument at all, buddy. And that's aside from the fact that we do have a feat of what could possibly be a mode.
Kishi already showed it to us. The only problem here is that you're choosing to believe it wasn't a mode, which is just your opinion, so it's not really going to affect mine and it establishes nothing. If you have a logical or factual explanations regarding this, then you're welcome.
Okay, I get your point. Can't say the same about agreeing with it though...
The thing is Base Naruto didn't really had the chance to grow as much as Base Hashirama. Had he reached Hashi's age and matured equally, he'd be just as powerful in terms of chakra and physical aspects. Of course, that is excluding Mokuton for Hashirama and FRS for Naruto because it is just a lucky elemental/KKG advantage that Hashirama has that makes him stronger. By raw power, Hashirama wouldn't be any stronger than a corresponding Naruto.
Well, if you remember, Tobirama said that when Uchihas experience grief and pain, a special chakra sprouts from their brain making them significantly more powerful. That special chakra will obviously be correspondingly powerful as their own chakra, it will be a lot stronger for the person with natural Rikodou chakra than for a person with regular Uchiha chakra, so it'll make a significant difference.
And it's a pretty obvious thing that MS Indra >> 3T Indra, just like how any MS Uchiha >> any 3T Uchiha.
True. But what Indra actually passed down was his chakra and genes (that resulted in the passing down of his powers i.e. dojutsu) in THE SAME WAY Ashura passed down his chakra and genes. So naturally it should also result in the passing down of HIS powers, which (you believe) were equal to Indra's whatever they were. So again, I don't see the problem in all of that, and am not getting any reliable explanation as to why Ashura's reincarnations are unable to compete against Indra's reincarnations naturally when they both were passed down with an equally powerful chakra.
Ashura didn't and didn't need to pass down modes, especially when you believe his own natural power rivaled Indra. So the only thing which he really had to pass down for his reincarnations to be equal to Indra naturally is his chakra, which is exactly what he did.
If Ashura had a mode, then this gets easier to explain. But you don't want to believe that. You want to believe that Base Ashura = MS Indra. TBH, I will believe you till Base Ashura = 3T Indra, though logically it should be Base Ashura = Base Indra, but regardless. But saying Base Ashura = MS Indra takes it a little too far.
But again, this raises the question. What prove do you have that whatever powers Ashura had in his final battle against Indra was purely his own self attainment?
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Chaosmark101
Active member
Who needs Ninjutsu when you have PS & Ashura avatar?
Pretty much no-one had ninjutsu then, not even the sage because Indra invented it. Also recall, we know Indra had amaterasu as per Kaguya's statement.
Also my logic works fine bro it's your's that's baseless. Hashirama could spawn an avatar without any mode, & he's an Ashura transmigrant.
He had no mode. FACT. Its your assumption that he had a mode, which goes against the manga man. Unless you bring me a scan with evidence of this so called mode. Your "mode" will forever be fanfic.
Base Naruto would never really grown to be on par with Hashirama anyways due to Mokujin, physical stats, chakra & jutsu's. Excluding Mokuton Hashirama would still be above due to his superior healing, & combat prowess.
Not denying MS made Indra stronger, I'm saying. Half of his dad's power is still >>>> than a Mangekyo Sharingan.
His powers wre passed down, we're talking his sharingan right?
Ashura passed down literally nothing but the "body" life force/vitality & chakra.
It's not like Indras descendents were able to use PS like he could with MS. Another reason why Rikudo chakra is huge.
Hashirama matched Madara, & Naruto matched Sasuke? Not sure what the last statement is trying to imply?
It was stated in the manga man. "Through hard work & suffering the chakra in Ashura bloomed giving him power that rivaled his older brother Indra." & He didn't have a mode. Nothing at all supports that. He's a rikudo shinobi same rules don't apply.
& Stop saying 3T & MS if it just makes you mad. Like I've said countless times above its irrelevant.
Full Power Ashura with his avatar = Full Power Indra with his avatar. That's all. Btw since I know you usually don't get to respond till it's like a new day for me. (Time zones & all I guess.)
Won't be able to reply immediately as I'm going on a trip to Mexico probably around the time you read this.
The manga, chapter 670.
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KidGamer65
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