Religion vs Science = Illogical

[Effie]

I take it you enjoy them? That makes me warm and tingly. People need to know you can be brilliant and rape slaves often it helps

I do enjoy them, and your stupid username is... STUPID! >.<

 

[ThomasJeffersonwasasadist]

I do enjoy them, and your stupid username is... STUPID! >.<

Keep talking like that and ill enslave you to harvest tobacco and old white guy sperm.

 

[Yellow Spark]

You are right.
But i think religion is necessary.

 

[hokutoshinken]

There is no fight religion vs science but most religion vs atheism or religion vs materialism etc.

 

[Anorien16]

Science is basically Knowledge of the Natural World . . . . While any Religion is faith in a certain system... There supposed to be no conflict unless one tress passes to others territory . . . . .

As for the Religion A vs Religion B scenario... a Teacher in my school of thought said a funny yet enlightening thing: All the various kinds religious people are actually like blind men trying to understand what an elephant is, being blind they have to use their sense of touch and as a result they can never comprehend what truly an elephant is (Those who are touching the tail will think it a smelly rope, those who is touching the trunk will think it a thick fleshy rope, those who touching the ear will think it a odd tapestry etc) . . . . . unless they gather all the useful information from their companions and test them out for himself to confirm it (not all people are honest and some are outright malicious, thats why u have to be wise too) . . . . . Cos lets face it some people call H2O water, some call it Ma, some call it Shuei and some call it Pani but in the end it is the same thing and it quenches the thirst of anyone who drinks it without discrimination.

 

[narutokage99]

You are right.
But i think religion is necessary.

According to the research, religion increases happiness, mental health and physical well being. It doesn’t stop there, the research also shows that religion prevents crime, increases rates of philanthropy and altruism. There is so much research out there, so it will have to suffice to give you a few examples.

In 2000, Political Scientist and Professor Robert Putnam surveyed 200 volunteer organisations and it showed that there was a positive correlation between religiosity and membership of volunteer organisations.

The Index of Global Philanthropy, 2007 states: “Religious people are more charitable than non-religious not only in giving to their own congregations, but also – regardless of income, region, social class, and other demographic variables – significantly more charitable in their secular donations and informal giving.”

The reasons is because there is more drinving force behind the system talking about.
From atheism position we could afirme that we are in a wrecking ship, a titanic.Because we know the univers will die one day, it will suffer a heat death.So nothing will happen, we are in titanic.What's the point of helping an old women or giving a glass of milk ?

Somoene could decide to have the purpose to basecally :
" i have 1 life, i want to be full and rich,i may steal,eat as much i can, let me be like certain
hegemonic empires,take all the ressources,give none to no one else" wich i call "atheist capitalism" which has this world view that a very minority have all the ressources and most of the world, for exemple 2 billions in the planet don't have sanitation,food and water.I mean this is a disgrace.

 

[YowYan]

6th guy that copies the topic of another thread. Why not just post your toughts on the other thread..

 

[Mr Scruffington]

According to the research, religion increases happiness, mental health and physical well being. It doesn’t stop there, the research also shows that religion prevents crime, increases rates of philanthropy and altruism.

Let me dismiss this as complete and utter bullshit.

If religion were any deterrence of crime, why do so many priests in churches rape children? If religion were any deterrence of crime, why would Christians kill abortion doctors, or why would Muslims commit such atrocious acts of terrorism?

Furthermore, look at Norway. Majority of the population is secular (around 70% if I recall), and yet they have one of the highest crime rates in the world. Whereas AMURICA, one of the most religious countries in the world, has the highest crime rate. Clearly it isn't preventing any crime.

From atheism position we could afirme that we are in a wrecking ship, a titanic.Because we know the univers will die one day, it will suffer a heat death.So nothing will happen, we are in titanic.What's the point of helping an old women or giving a glass of milk ?

From my perspective at least, this is the only life I know that I have. If I **** up and make a mistake, I'll have to pay for it in this life by going to jail or something. It's in my best interest to help others so that some day they can help me out as well. Helping others also makes me happy and fulfills me, because I'm a human being and that shit feels good.

 

[YowYan]

According to the research, religion increases happiness, mental health and physical well being. It doesn’t stop there, the research also shows that religion prevents crime, increases rates of philanthropy and altruism. There is so much research out there, so it will have to suffice to give you a few examples.

In 2000, Political Scientist and Professor Robert Putnam surveyed 200 volunteer organisations and it showed that there was a positive correlation between religiosity and membership of volunteer organisations.

The Index of Global Philanthropy, 2007 states: “Religious people are more charitable than non-religious not only in giving to their own congregations, but also – regardless of income, region, social class, and other demographic variables – significantly more charitable in their secular donations and informal giving.”

The reasons is because there is more drinving force behind the system talking about.
From atheism position we could afirme that we are in a wrecking ship, a titanic.Because we know the univers will die one day, it will suffer a heat death.So nothing will happen, we are in titanic.What's the point of helping an old women or giving a glass of milk ?

Somoene could decide to have the purpose to basecally :
" i have 1 life, i want to be full and rich,i may steal,eat as much i can, let me be like certain
hegemonic empires,take all the ressources,give none to no one else" wich i call "atheist capitalism" which has this world view that a very minority have all the ressources and most of the world, for exemple 2 billions in the planet don't have sanitation,food and water.I mean this is a disgrace.

I literally laughed my ass off reading this post. Thanks for that, you made my day hahahahahaha

 

[AnimusOra]

This whole fight the world is in with "Religion vs Science", is quite illogical. The fact that people are taking Science and putting it up against a belief system is quite ridiculous and makes no freaking sense.

Most atheists defend their point of "no god" with saying " we support science and go by science , not beliefs."

However, religions like Islam, Sikhism, Hinduism, (partially Christianity) are science supporters. ESPECIALLY ISLAM AND HINDUISM..

Science:
Noun
The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural...

Science is every day things we do. Me trying to solve why I'm sick is SCIENCE...

Infact the reality is that the branch of Science is highly derived by Beliefs.. however they use a different word "Theories". We accept the theory of Big Bang... why? Cause that is what we chose to put our belief in. There is no evidence that the big bang happened..


So people, stop making the 2 things into different things.. when they aren't different.

I am not an atheist nor a nihilist. I simply chose not to believe in anything. Science and Math are mankinds only source of reliability. Religions are all the same and keep minds at a close and dont push them to expand. Yes alot of religious people support science but only so that they can prove what they believe is real. That is science proving what is real. Religion is believing what is real but there is no proof. I have gone further in life not accepting a religous belief and a much happier one as well. Religion contradicts itself way to much to ever be taken seriously. In my opinion there books are great stories but that is all they are is stories, yet people take them and form them into a way of life.

 

[AnimusOra]

According to the research, religion increases happiness, mental health and physical well being. It doesn’t stop there, the research also shows that religion prevents crime, increases rates of philanthropy and altruism. There is so much research out there, so it will have to suffice to give you a few examples.

In 2000, Political Scientist and Professor Robert Putnam surveyed 200 volunteer organisations and it showed that there was a positive correlation between religiosity and membership of volunteer organisations.

The Index of Global Philanthropy, 2007 states: “Religious people are more charitable than non-religious not only in giving to their own congregations, but also – regardless of income, region, social class, and other demographic variables – significantly more charitable in their secular donations and informal giving.”

The reasons is because there is more drinving force behind the system talking about.
From atheism position we could afirme that we are in a wrecking ship, a titanic.Because we know the univers will die one day, it will suffer a heat death.So nothing will happen, we are in titanic.What's the point of helping an old women or giving a glass of milk ?

Somoene could decide to have the purpose to basecally :
" i have 1 life, i want to be full and rich,i may steal,eat as much i can, let me be like certain
hegemonic empires,take all the ressources,give none to no one else" wich i call "atheist capitalism" which has this world view that a very minority have all the ressources and most of the world, for exemple 2 billions in the planet don't have sanitation,food and water.I mean this is a disgrace.

I am more than willing to bet that the people who funded that research were religious right?

 

[Micho22]

Religion is something far behind science you can not describe it with mathematical formules and scientic reaserches
It is something greater than anything
Every human has two choiches
1 . You believe in religion and god
2 or you dont believe it is so simple

 

[narutokage99]

Let me dismiss this as complete and utter bullshit.

If religion were any deterrence of crime, why do so many priests in churches rape children? If religion were any deterrence of crime, why would Christians kill abortion doctors, or why would Muslims commit such atrocious acts of terrorism?

Furthermore, look at Norway. Majority of the population is secular (around 70% if I recall), and yet they have one of the highest crime rates in the world. Whereas AMURICA, one of the most religious countries in the world, has the highest crime rate. Clearly it isn't preventing any crime.

Atheists can be good people, so can humanists but i'd argue since there is no driving force, no more motivation.
Even in China an officially non-religious state. A recent study by Paul Badham and Xinzhong Yao for the Ian Ramsey Centre at Oxford University, reported that a majority of those felt religious experiences had a positive effect on their lives.


LOL usa a religious country? Best joke ever.How usa can be a religious country when it's ruled by secular and human laws.


In the 20th-21st century, it has been full of bloodshed...
According to Professor Carter he says that the 20th century has been the most bloodiest century ever.More blood has been split in this century than in any other time in known history.And then they say religion causes wars...

More people have died under the banned of secular ideologies rather than the banned of religion, from a number's game...
The real terror is actually the state or the ideological type of terror because far more innocents have died.For example Zbigniew Brzeinski in his publication, Out of Control : Global Turmoil on the Eve of the 21 st century.He said lives had been deliberately extinguished, by politically motivated carnage and he gives us some numbers.

The war dead alone in the 21st century... The war dead alone for politically motivated reasons is 87,5 million people.Not he 3000 , 9/11 which is wrong and we disagree with.
Not around 60 people in 77 in the UK which is wrong and we disagree with.Look at the real type of terrorism for politicaly motivated via state terror, 87,5 million people.I mean even if you were doing a number's game... you would be shocked and how can you hide this?

 

[YowYan]

Atheists can be good people, so can humanists but i'd argue since there is no driving force, no more motivation.
Even in China an officially non-religious state. A recent study by Paul Badham and Xinzhong Yao for the Ian Ramsey Centre at Oxford University, reported that a majority of those felt religious experiences had a positive effect on their lives.


LOL usa a religious country? Best joke ever.How usa can be a religious country when it's ruled by secular and human laws.


In the 20th-21st century, it has been full of bloodshed...
According to Professor Carter he says that the 20th century has been the most bloodiest century ever.More blood has been split in this century than in any other time in known history.And then they say religion causes wars...

More people have died under the banned of secular ideologies rather than the banned of religion, from a number's game...
The real terror is actually the state or the ideological type of terror because far more innocents have died.For example Zbigniew Brzeinski in his publication, Out of Control : Global Turmoil on the Eve of the 21 st century.He said lives had been deliberately extinguished, by politically motivated carnage and he gives us some numbers.

The war dead alone in the 21st century... The war dead alone for politically motivated reasons is 87,5 million people.Not he 3000 , 9/11 which is wrong and we disagree with.
Not around 60 people in 77 in the UK which is wrong and we disagree with.Look at the real type of terrorism for politicaly motivated via state terror, 87,5 million people.I mean even if you were doing a number's game... you would be shocked and how can you hide this?

So, in short; You're telling us that because of the governments and their idealistic inhumane actions towards mankind (fact) which are no different then the church's actions, religion is any better? You are now comparing politics with religion. I think religion and the church are 2 separate things. The core teachings of religion, I respect; but the cultural/socialistic dogma side of religion imbued by the church is something else. Let's get that straight.

And yes, the govt. of usa was founded on the wish to not be influenced by any religion, but sadly it still happened. To this day on, politicians like Rick Santorum influence their policy proposals with their outdated religious moral standards.

About the 'driving force' thing, that makes no sense at all. Another deluded view from religious people.

Don't bring politics into this, we're talking about the religious morals and philosophical differences...not the church and their interventionism towards politics.

 

[shelke]

I am not sure how many will see things my way, but both are Obsolete in one way or anther. Religion, albeit being a set of beliefs and offering spiritual enlightenment - not all are effective though - does hinder an individual's growth and puts fetters on his thinking by setting up clear verges of not questioning its absolute authority.

The explanations also require belief as they are quite ambiguous and vague and don't provide any concrete proof in regards to birth of universe or life. Science on the other hand is renders obsolete by its constant progression. Science doesn't offer any concrete evidence in regards to birth of life or universe,yet. So far, all the theories cannot logically be taken as evidences to anything as they are not evidences at all. But, this discipline has this ability to evolve and amalgamate new findings, discoveries etc within itself to improve whilst religion will remain stuck at one level till it's completely obliterated.

Personally, any discipline that cannot evolve perishes. Perhaps if Religion evolved itself as well, we won't be having this debate. But in its crux, adhering to both schools is a matter of belief.

 

[narutokage99]

So, in short; You're telling us that because of the governments and their idealistic inhumane actions towards mankind (fact) which are no different then the church's actions, religion is any better? You are now comparing politics with religion. I think religion and the church are 2 separate things. The core teachings of religion, I respect; but the cultural/socialistic dogma side of religion imbued by the church is something else. Let's get that straight.

And yes, the govt. of usa was founded on the wish to not be influenced by any religion, but sadly it still happened. To this day on, politicians like Rick Santorum influence their policy proposals with their outdated religious moral standards.

About the 'driving force' thing, that makes no sense at all. Another deluded view from religious people.

Don't bring politics into this, we're talking about the religious morals and philosophical differences...not the church and their interventionism towards politics.

Hey i'm not christian, my point was the fact that no religious war in history, not all the religious wars of history added together, did as much damage as this century’s wars of nationalism and ideology. I'm not the one who mentioned the church

If the "driving force" make no sense to you, how do you explain all these research i gave as examples, many researchs are from non religious scientists.
That research doesn't mean anything? Are there research to counters these research or you'll say as some humanists "their personal experience".
Is it not the humanist and atheist traditions that claim people of religion are not objective and do not use reason?
According to this experience i woulnd't be wrong to find it difficulty to appreciate why you can make such claim.

Some people who reject religion says "we do not wan to submit,submission is dangerous and backward".
I thought about this for a while, since then i called it "logic of submission".

The word logic comes from Greek, and in philosophy Logic is very important because its use allows us to effectively present and refute an argument. Now in the context of arguing that submission to God is the way forward, I use the following:

1. Submission to a higher being is more rational than submission to a human being
2. religion (islam) requires humans to submit to a higher being
3. Therefore religion (islam) is more rational

the above is almost irrefutable. The only way to respond to the argument is by dealing with some of the presuppositions. In this case the presuppositions are,

1. A higher being (i.e. God) exists
2. This higher being requires us to submit to it

we would have to shift the debate to the existence of God and the miracle of the Qur’an, because if it can be proven that God does exist and that the Qur’an is a miracle, in other words, it has come from God, then the humanist should also submit (since the Qur’an tells us to submit to God). However it 's not the topic .

 

[ThomasJeffersonwasasadist]

Atheists can be good people, so can humanists but i'd argue since there is no driving force, no more motivation.
Even in China an officially non-religious state. A recent study by Paul Badham and Xinzhong Yao for the Ian Ramsey Centre at Oxford University, reported that a majority of those felt religious experiences had a positive effect on their lives.


LOL usa a religious country? Best joke ever.How usa can be a religious country when it's ruled by secular and human laws.


In the 20th-21st century, it has been full of bloodshed...
According to Professor Carter he says that the 20th century has been the most bloodiest century ever.More blood has been split in this century than in any other time in known history.And then they say religion causes wars...

More people have died under the banned of secular ideologies rather than the banned of religion, from a number's game...
The real terror is actually the state or the ideological type of terror because far more innocents have died.For example Zbigniew Brzeinski in his publication, Out of Control : Global Turmoil on the Eve of the 21 st century.He said lives had been deliberately extinguished, by politically motivated carnage and he gives us some numbers.

The war dead alone in the 21st century... The war dead alone for politically motivated reasons is 87,5 million people.Not he 3000 , 9/11 which is wrong and we disagree with.
Not around 60 people in 77 in the UK which is wrong and we disagree with.Look at the real type of terrorism for politicaly motivated via state terror, 87,5 million people.I mean even if you were doing a number's game... you would be shocked and how can you hide this?

The driving force to be a "good" atheist person is because we have one life to live and we want help if we ever need it. Of course religious people say religious experiences are important. Best joke ever eh? Dude I live in America and even though we're officially secular an atheist president will not be elected for a very long time it's hard to find another atheist person, some people think that hogwash like creationism should be taught in schools politicians hold national prayer days and there's channels like Fox News that mock atheism. So you never heard of world war 2? You know when Germany tried to exterminate the Jewish people, what would you call that? How about all the constant turmoil between the christin countries and the Muslim countries that has been going on since their founding and will never end?

 

[Disquiet]

Science is not a rebuttal to religion. Before the progression of science, we had many unexplained miracles. And after the progression of science, we learned just how complicated those miracles are.

 

[Mr Scruffington]

Science is not a rebuttal to religion. Before the progression of science, we had many unexplained miracles. And after the progression of science, we learned just how complicated those miracles are.

This post needs some serious elaborating.

 

[Disquiet]

This post needs some serious elaborating.

Really? It's a very straightforward post. The mechanics of nature and the human body, or any organic life isn't a logical argument to try and deny a creator. Some 'serious elaborating' there huh.