Part 2~ Sandai Dōjutsu

guts2nevergiveup

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Nice Theory you did some good job collaborating the pieces information nicely


I think that the Byakugan is a genetic trait of whatever species Kaguya is. Since it CLEARlY doesn't come from the juubi

I''v always suspected that the the Hyuga never once observed using ninjutsu. Ever. Not once. which ties in with the Moon People and Byakugan is the celestial dojutsu concludes that the Byakugan was among the first dojutsu.

If you look at the Juubi carefully, it shows both the Rinnegan and Sharingan in its eye, yet there is no Byakugan mixed in there, implying it is unrelated. If kishi wanted, he could have made juubi's eyelike obito's war mask so to represent all three eyes; tomoes with ripples and a white colour, yet he makes the juubi's eye red instead.

Then there's the fact that sharingan (in MS/EMS state) and rinnegan have demonic powers unlike Byakugan. There's also the fact that Byakugan is something hyugas are naturally born with, while sharingan has to have special chakra sprout in order to awaken while rennigan needs ashura+indra to awaken.

Also, while Rennigan and sharingan can't be deactivated by foreign users, Byakugan can be. It doesn't really mean much, but it once again shows a difference between the byakugan and the other two eyes.

So knowing that Byakugan is almost certainly NOT apart of the juubi, is it really satisfactory to say Kaguya had it and leave it at that? I don't think so, hence why I believe it is an eye that is naturally found in kaguya's species.

I think rennigan, sharingan, and ALL elemental kekkai genkais came from the juubi. I think the only two kekkai genkai that come from Kaguya and/or her species are the Byakugan and kimimaru's bone manipulation
Very interesting nsw.

I also believe that it is a genetic trait for the same reasons that you have stated. There is no link between the byakugan and the shinju/jubi. It is an interesting and possible idea that the byakugan is a celestial justu and is connected to moon people maybe (haha idk but I like the idea).

I agree with everything you said however, I maybe forgetting something, but could you give an example of byakugan being deactivated by a foreign user?
 

Hyuga Prodigy

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Very interesting nsw.

I also believe that it is a genetic trait for the same reasons that you have stated. There is no link between the byakugan and the shinju/jubi. It is an interesting and possible idea that the byakugan is a celestial justu and is connected to moon people maybe (haha idk but I like the idea).

I agree with everything you said however, I maybe forgetting something, but could you give an example of byakugan being deactivated by a foreign user?
I believe that the Otsutsuki Clan, through practice and meditation was able to harness the true power of the Mind's Eye (Byakugan) causing a Special Chakra to sprout within their Pineal gland. This Chakra was passed down every generations and with there Byakugan they were able to divine Chakra and the Energies of the Body and developed The Gentle Fist as a result.

And so the first Doujutsu was the Byakugan, when activated they open their Mind's Eye which grants them "perception beyond ordinary sight".

Pineal Gland:
 

guts2nevergiveup

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I believe that the Otsutsuki Clan, through practice and meditation was able to harness the true power of the Mind's Eye (Byakugan) causing a Special Chakra to sprout within their Pineal gland. This Chakra was passed down every generations and with there Byakugan they were able to divine Chakra and the Energies of the Body and developed The Gentle Fist as a result.

And so the first Doujutsu was the Byakugan, when activated they open their Mind's Eye which grants them "perception beyond ordinary sight".

Pineal Gland:
Man that's interesting! Thanks for the link btw!

I believe that what you said is very possible and weel put together. I just have one question. Are you implying that all of that happen before kaguya consumed the fruit? I'm guessing yes. If so that would mean that the Otsutsuki were the first to control chakra because they would have mastered that before hagoromo would have taught nishuu to everyone right?
 

Hyuga Prodigy

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Man that's interesting! Thanks for the link btw!

I believe that what you said is very possible and weel put together. I just have one question. Are you implying that all of that happen before kaguya consumed the fruit? I'm guessing yes. If so that would mean that the Otsutsuki were the first to control chakra because they would have mastered that before hagoromo would have taught nishuu to everyone right?

Yea the Otsutsuki are most likely the one to use chakra . Turned off by the Juubi's actions the God Tree the Otsutsuki change their name and head towards the Sun (Hyuga). the Hyuuga likely draw their origins from these Ototsuki Warriors, some (or all) of whom remained behind to stand watch over Kaguya's 'grave.'

Now in the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter the Tree represents the Princess's way to reach the Moon which is where her kingdom is. Now in Naruto the God Tree is a symbol the people worship and this is all done in relation to the Moon, I mean the Juubi's True Power/Purpose seems to be derived directly from the Moon. Now the God Tree has its fruit stolen and starts wreaking havoc on everyone. So they have been betrayed by the Tree which more or less represents the Moon. Now where will this clan turn to? Hmm...

Hyuga - means "towards the sun" or "place in the sun".

This only seems natural as the Sun is the direct opposite of the Moon. With the God Tree/Moon proving to be Evil it only makes sense to make a full 180 towards its opposite. The Sun.

And so the Ōtsutsuki Clan changed there name from Ōtsutsuki (Big Bamboo Tree), which represented them heading towards the Moon, to the Hyuga Clan which now represents them heading back in the other direction "Towards the Sun."

With that the Uchiha's Origins would lie within the Hyuga...
 

xcoyote

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Well, tbh, I don't think the "Eye" in Hago's forehead is really an eye, it's more like an artistic paint or tattoo, remember when Naruto first encountered him, the first thing he noticed was "those eyes, the Rinnegan?" if Naruto saw the design on his forehead as a real eye he would've mentioned it I think.
Maybe its some sort of seal.
 

guts2nevergiveup

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Yea the Otsutsuki are most likely the one to use chakra . Turned off by the Juubi's actions the God Tree the Otsutsuki change their name and head towards the Sun (Hyuga). the Hyuuga likely draw their origins from these Ototsuki Warriors, some (or all) of whom remained behind to stand watch over Kaguya's 'grave.'

Now in the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter the Tree represents the Princess's way to reach the Moon which is where her kingdom is. Now in Naruto the God Tree is a symbol the people worship and this is all done in relation to the Moon, I mean the Juubi's True Power/Purpose seems to be derived directly from the Moon. Now the God Tree has its fruit stolen and starts wreaking havoc on everyone. So they have been betrayed by the Tree which more or less represents the Moon. Now where will this clan turn to? Hmm...

Hyuga - means "towards the sun" or "place in the sun".

This only seems natural as the Sun is the direct opposite of the Moon. With the God Tree/Moon proving to be Evil it only makes sense to make a full 180 towards its opposite. The Sun.

And so the Ōtsutsuki Clan changed there name from Ōtsutsuki (Big Bamboo Tree), which represented them heading towards the Moon, to the Hyuga Clan which now represents them heading back in the other direction "Towards the Sun."

With that the Uchiha's Origins would lie within the Hyuga...
Holy sh*t! that was beautiful :T_T:

It really seems like you are on to something, I can only agree with what you said lol. My knowledge on the hyuuga is limited but you seem to know what you are talking about and on top of that it all makes a lot of sense. The only thing I didn't really understand was the last sentence. What do you mean by "With that the Uchiha's Origins would lie within the Hyuga"?

Also kinda off-topic: I just watched the new episode and since you are a big hyuuga fan in general, I was wondering what you thought about it. I think we kinda had this convo before but what did you think about how the anime handled it?
 

Behemoth55

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I agree with hermit chakra and rinnegan as requisites, however im uncertain what u mean by the third one "hermit mode" is it not the hermit chakra that causes the hermit mode? or do you mean the NON-BASE Chakra "aka hermit senjutsu" and the base chakra "aka hermit chakra"
The 'Rikudō Senjutsu' is in this context unique in my opinion. Sure, the hermit chakra of the six path's is the source of those mode, but Sasuke has that kind of chakra too, without having the 'RS'.
I could give you another example. Orochimaru is able to build senchakra. He has used that chakra to create the Juin, but he couldn't master the hermit-mode like Kabuto.
 

The Dreamer

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Nice thread overall but I really don't believe the part about byakugan existing before chakra has been discovered. It should be an anomaly in normal humans just like the chakra itself is.
 

guts2nevergiveup

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The 'Rikudō Senjutsu' is in this context unique in my opinion. Sure, the hermit chakra of the six path's is the source of those mode, but Sasuke has that kind of chakra too, without having the 'RS'.
I could give you another example. Orochimaru is able to build senchakra. He has used that chakra to create the Juin, but he couldn't master the hermit-mode like Kabuto.
I'm glad to see you here brother! Well said btw.

Also what do you think about Hagoromo being able to awaken the third eye at one point in his life?
 

Behemoth55

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I'm glad to see you here brother! Well said btw.

Also what do you think about Hagoromo being able to awaken the third eye at one point in his life?
Yes, he had the power of the samsara and therefore all components for the third eye. That eye on his forehead is in my opinion a seal. Sasuke said, a Rinnegan can cancel the genjutsu of another Rinnegan~Mugen Tsukuyomi. It's my belief that Hagoromo has used the eye power of the red Rinnegan to break the genjutsu of his mother.
Afterwards, it lost it's power and was sealed away by a special fuin jutsu.
 

guts2nevergiveup

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Yes, he had the power of the samsara and therefore all components for the third eye. That eye on his forehead is in my opinion a seal. Sasuke said, a Rinnegan can cancel the genjutsu of another Rinnegan~Mugen Tsukuyomi. It's my belief that Hagoromo has used the eye power of the red Rinnegan to break the genjutsu of his mother.
Afterwards, it lost it's power and was sealed away by a special fuin jutsu.
Interesting. So you believe that Kaguya had already cast it before and that hagoromo managed to break it? He only received all the components for it after becoming the ten tails jin correct?
 

Hyuga Prodigy

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Holy sh*t! that was beautiful :T_T:

It really seems like you are on to something, I can only agree with what you said lol. My knowledge on the hyuuga is limited but you seem to know what you are talking about and on top of that it all makes a lot of sense. The only thing I didn't really understand was the last sentence. What do you mean by "With that the Uchiha's Origins would lie within the Hyuga"?

Also kinda off-topic: I just watched the new episode and since you are a big hyuuga fan in general, I was wondering what you thought about it. I think we kinda had this convo before but what did you think about how the anime handled it?
Oh I was just going to what Kakashi said during the Chunnin exam.

It was a great episode but nothing too special. I didn't feel that sad for the characters that died in this episode but it was still more emotional than the manga. It was rushed, imo. It looks like Kishi pulled that move out of nowhere because we never expected Neji to die. The animators had the perfect chance to correct this scene in the manga by showing more scenes involving Neji so that it will make a more emotional impact to the audience when he dies. I'm still disappointed that Neji did not get enough build ups that he deserve in this war.

However Neji's death was executed perfectly. it felt real, and Neji holds this significant meaning to his death which represent his freedom and I love this symbolism played out. That aspect of the death is what I loved about this episode and this Hinata and Naruto development really brings in the nice touch.

The art, animation, the soundtrack and the voice actor especially Obito was beautifully done, and I think that was the strongest point of the episode.


Speaking of Neji death seal, he purpose of the Hyuuga Main Branch seal has been something of an oddity to me for some time, now..

Kaguya is stated to have been using humanity to create soldiers to fight against... probably whatever/whoever out-badassed her.


For reasons yet to be explained - she persisted, the "Juubi problem" existed, and Hagoromo thought it would be a good idea to give everyone chakra (probably because he played a part in making sure Kaguya was not destroyed - but that's because I believe Hagoromo is a 'heretical sage of the outer path').

Anyone powerful and/or wise enough to accomplish this would have likely realized that the problem was far from over and that there would be a time when Kaguya came back to cause problems (or someone doing her bidding)

The Seal was likely developed as a means of keeping the broader population of Hyuuga (that would eventually come in the wake of settlement) from being able to seek broader power as Kaguya did. The true "Power of the Main Branch" likely does not sit with the Gentle Fist style, but with abilities similar to (though probably not the magnitude) of Kaguya. Though it's possible those abilities have been forgotten simply out of adherence to a strict doctrine of not utilizing them.

The true purpose of the "Caged Bird Seal" is to prevent the rise of another Kaguya, and quite possibly to seal off branch members from greater abilities.
 
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Behemoth55

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Interesting. So you believe that Kaguya had already cast it before and that hagoromo managed to break it? He only received all the components for it after becoming the ten tails jin correct?
1. It was said Kaguya used that jutsu to create her soldiers, so yes.

2. No, he was born with his mothers chakra inside his body. That's the chakra of the Shinju actually. He had the Rikudō Senjutsu and Rinnegan before he became Jinchūriki.
 

guts2nevergiveup

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Oh I was just going to what Kakashi said during the Chunnin exam.

It was a great episode but nothing too special. I didn't feel that sad for the characters that died in this episode but it was still more emotional than the manga. It was rushed, imo. It looks like Kishi pulled that move out of nowhere because we never expected Neji to die. The animators had the perfect chance to correct this scene in the manga by showing more scenes involving Neji so that it will make a more emotional impact to the audience when he dies. I'm still disappointed that Neji did not get enough build ups that he deserve in this war.

However Neji's death was executed perfectly. it felt real, and Neji holds this significant meaning to his death which represent his freedom and I love this symbolism played out. That aspect of the death is what I loved about this episode and this Hinata and Naruto development really brings in the nice touch.

The art, animation, the soundtrack and the voice actor especially Obito was beautifully done, and I think that was the strongest point of the episode.


Speaking of Neji death seal, he purpose of the Hyuuga Main Branch seal has been something of an oddity to me for some time, now..

Kaguya is stated to have been using humanity to create soldiers to fight against... probably whatever/whoever out-badassed her.


For reasons yet to be explained - she persisted, the "Juubi problem" existed, and Hagoromo thought it would be a good idea to give everyone chakra (probably because he played a part in making sure Kaguya was not destroyed - but that's because I believe Hagoromo is a 'heretical sage of the outer path').

Anyone powerful and/or wise enough to accomplish this would have likely realized that the problem was far from over and that there would be a time when Kaguya came back to cause problems (or someone doing her bidding)

The Seal was likely developed as a means of keeping the broader population of Hyuuga (that would eventually come in the wake of settlement) from being able to seek broader power as Kaguya did. The true "Power of the Main Branch" likely does not sit with the Gentle Fist style, but with abilities similar to (though probably not the magnitude) of Kaguya. Though it's possible those abilities have been forgotten simply out of adherence to a strict doctrine of not utilizing them.

The true purpose of the "Caged Bird Seal" is to prevent the rise of another Kaguya, and quite possibly to seal off branch members from greater abilities (perhaps to include ninjutsu).
Haha I thought the same thing about the episode. Overall it was a great episode imo but I think the problems with it were because of the manga and not the anime. Like you said they should have added some filler padding to make it more complete but whatever they follow the manga after all. I agree that the anime executed it very well tho.

What you said about the seal is also very interesting. You're on a roll lol. I never thought it could be related to kaguya but if the hyuuga do have a connection with kaguya, I don't see why not. It will also fit in with her reasoning for building an army.

I also never heard this interpretation of the caged bird seal but that also sounds viable. I also think that, on a more simple and symbolic note, it represents freedom and free will as opposed to fate/destiny.
I think I never realized how much of a hyuuga fan you really are lol. good stuff!
 

guts2nevergiveup

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1. It was said Kaguya used that jutsu to create her soldiers, so yes.

2. No, he was born with his mothers chakra inside his body. That's the chakra of the Shinju actually. He had the Rikudō Senjutsu and Rinnegan before he became Jinchūriki.
1. Oh ya that's right haha.
2. So you're saying hagoromo had the components to awaken the third eye from birth?
 
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