Part 2~ Sandai Dōjutsu

guts2nevergiveup · Jun 6, 2014

LUMOS ULTIMATUM said:
This thread should be bookmarked lol. You are up to something with this theory.

Haha thanks a lot man, we appreciate the fact that you looked it.

guts2nevergiveup · Jun 6, 2014

Behemoth55 said:
Basically yes.

Haha ok that's interesting lol

SIX PATHZ · Jun 6, 2014

First good read man and thx.
Not every sharingan is a rinnegan.both got unique dojutsu different to other one.
Think kishi named it also as a rinnegan coz Itz the next step of the rinnegan. Like 3T , MS , EMS all called as a sharingan in common. After sharingan it's rinnegan.sasuke got advance version of the rinnegan so simply can't call it as a shringan.

I think sasuke went beyond the Normal rinnegan coz sage chakra+Indra chakra.
Sage not having the same eye is also fair coz it's not something kaguya born with and we also saw Indra and ashura didnt get the same power as sage. So when it passing down it's getting downgraded.
Then there come the problem that how that first IT was stopped?
May be sage brother got that 3rd eye from mother? Coz he must have something from mother not only sage. Or kaguya just died becoming victim of the fruit?

Now assume that kaguya had the biyakugan in birth will make her a hyuuga.

It's hard to write more on phone and hope you can understand above bro.

DaileyM · Jun 6, 2014

You write everything down so nicely XD. It's never hard for me to read your theories.

That said, So you basically think that Kaguya comes from a place where everyone already had Shinju chakra?

I do like your idea about the Rinnegan is also a sharingan but not vice versa.

omg it's so interesting XD

Six Paths · Jun 6, 2014

Nice theory, I like it a lot. But I got the same question as Derp, Are the doujutsu a birth of chakra or are they part of alien life form or even mutation?

Behemoth55 · Jun 6, 2014

-Six Paths- said:
But I got the same question as Derp, Are the doujutsu a birth of chakra or are they part of alien life form or even mutation?

I think, we have to differentiate between the Dōjutsu of the Shinju and the Byakugan. All three Dōjutsu are Kekkai Genkai. A Kekkai Genkai refers to a change of genotype. In this context they are similar, but they have one important difference. You need not only the Kekkai Genkai, but also a special chakra to awake the Rinnegan and Sharingan.
The Rinnegan is bound to Hagoromos chakra. On the other hand the awakening of the Sharingan is bound to some kind of trauma which result in a new chakra. The Byakugan is different. Every child of the Hyūga have those 'white eyes' since birth. It seems even without the concept of chakra. It's my belief that the Byakugan is connected to Kaguyas origin.

In short: Rinnegan/Sharingan= Chakra Dōjutsu
Byakugan= "alien" Dōjutsu

guts2nevergiveup · Jun 6, 2014

Behemoth55 said:
I think, we have to differentiate between the Dōjutsu of the Shinju and the Byakugan. All three Dōjutsu are Kekkai Genkai. A Kekkai Genkai refers to a change of genotype. In this context they are similar, but they have one important difference. You need not only the Kekkai Genkai, but also a special chakra to awake the Rinnegan and Sharingan.
The Rinnegan is bound to Hagoromos chakra. On the other hand the awakening of the Sharingan is bound to some kind of trauma which result in a new chakra. The Byakugan is different. Every child of the Hyūga have those 'white eyes' since birth. It seems even without the concept of chakra. It's my belief that the Byakugan is connected to Kaguyas origin.

In short: Rinnegan/Sharingan= Chakra Dōjutsu
Byakugan= "alien" Dōjutsu

Well said B. I agree with what you said.

guts2nevergiveup · Jun 6, 2014

DaileyM said:
You write everything down so nicely XD. It's never hard for me to read your theories.

That said, So you basically think that Kaguya comes from a place where everyone already had Shinju chakra?

I do like your idea about the Rinnegan is also a sharingan but not vice versa.

omg it's so interesting XD

Well well well, a little late to the party haha.

However I'm glad you liked it and think it's easy to read.

I don't really think that she comes from a place where everyone had shinju chakra already but I do believe that either kaguya had eyes like the byakugan and it became the byakugan when she consumed the fruit or like nsw said, get and get people might have been able to unlock it before hand and be the first one to wield chakra. Does that make sense?

Ψ Veritas Ψ · Jun 6, 2014

Behemoth55 said:
The 'Rikudō Senjutsu' is in this context unique in my opinion. Sure, the hermit chakra of the six path's is the source of those mode, but Sasuke has that kind of chakra too, without having the 'RS'.
I could give you another example. Orochimaru is able to build senchakra. He has used that chakra to create the Juin, but he couldn't master the hermit-mode like Kabuto.

he gave sasuke his spiritual chakra.
which is why he awakened 9 t in the first place

sasuke already had hashiramas chakra/cells "aka yang ashura" + getting hagoromos yin "aka yin indras" = rinnegan

guts2nevergiveup · Jun 6, 2014

SIX PATHZ said:
First good read man and thx.
Not every sharingan is a rinnegan.both got unique dojutsu different to other one.
Think kishi named it also as a rinnegan coz Itz the next step of the rinnegan. Like 3T , MS , EMS all called as a sharingan in common. After sharingan it's rinnegan.sasuke got advance version of the rinnegan so simply can't call it as a shringan.

I think sasuke went beyond the Normal rinnegan coz sage chakra+Indra chakra.
Sage not having the same eye is also fair coz it's not something kaguya born with and we also saw Indra and ashura didnt get the same power as sage. So when it passing down it's getting downgraded.
Then there come the problem that how that first IT was stopped?
May be sage brother got that 3rd eye from mother? Coz he must have something from mother not only sage. Or kaguya just died becoming victim of the fruit?

Now assume that kaguya had the biyakugan in birth will make her a hyuuga.

It's hard to write more on phone and hope you can understand above bro.

Thanks for reading sp. I understood most of it don't worry. I'm also thinking that hamura must have had a role to play and must have been really powerful himself but we don't know enough about him yet. I can't wait to see how he was involved.

Behemoth55 · Jun 6, 2014

Ψ Veritas Ψ said:
he gave sasuke his spiritual chakra.
which is why he awakened 9 t in the first place

sasuke already had hashiramas chakra/cells "aka yang ashura" + getting hagoromos yin "aka yin indras" = rinnegan

Hashirama isn't a transmigrant anymore. Sasuke has gotten Hagoromos hermit chakra of the six path's, the Rikudō no Sennin chakra.

You must be registered for see links

It says: Even the shadow of Madara is generated by the {rikudō no sennin} chakra. That kind of chakra is the reason why Sasukes Chidori turned black and why he could cut Madara in two pieces.

It's even doubtful that those cells of Hashirama are a permanent part of Sasuke.
By given facts Naruto and Sasuke use the same kind of chakra, but they have differents powers. Naruto has gotten the 'Rikudō Senjutsu' due to that chakra and Sasuke the Rinnegan. Both powers base on the Seishitsuhenka Inyōton.

Ψ Veritas Ψ · Jun 6, 2014

Behemoth55 said:
Hashirama isn't a transmigrant anymore. Sasuke has gotten Hagoromos hermit chakra of the six path's, the Rikudō no Sennin chakra.
It's even doubtful that those cells of Hashirama are a permanent part of Sasuke.
By given facts Naruto and Sasuke use the same kind of chakra, but they have differents powers. Naruto has gotten the 'Rikudō Senjutsu' due to that chakra and Sasuke the Rinnegan. Both powers base on the Seishitsuhenka Inyōton.

first of all, we have not been given any evidence on how the transmigrancy works. Whether an edo person would have the same qualities/chakra or not, but based on logical observasion we can deduct that hashirama still holds the same chakra as ashura even if ashura himself is inside another host.

it is clear why kishi gave sasuke hashi's chakra and cells it wasn something temporary infact it was hashiramas cells that awakened the 9t eye remember? sasuke has indras YIN and when given hashis cells he attained "the Yang aka ashuras chakra" therefore he awakened the rinnegan however sasukes Affinity still remains in Yin, given Hagoromos "Moon" aka Yin was given to him, hashis cells just helped fill the requisites for a rinnegan, however given sasuke recieved chakra directly from rikudo his rinnegan somewhat exceeds that of madaras "in my opinion" but lets put that aside my point is they have similar powers to rikudo, but they each hold only "half" of his true power essentially.

Behemoth55 · Jun 6, 2014

Ψ Veritas Ψ said:
first of all, we have not been given any evidence on how the transmigrancy works. Whether an edo person would have the same qualities/chakra or not, but based on logical observasion we can deduct that hashirama still holds the same chakra as ashura even if ashura himself is inside another host.

Actually, that should be impossible. It remains as long as another suitable host is found. That's the reason why Ashuras chakra was even after Hashiramas death in Madara. Ashuras chakra acts also independently. Ashura and Indora are like the Biju an epiphany of chakra. We can't compare this case to the Kingin Kyōdai either, because Ashuras and Indoras chakra exists alongside of the inner chakra of the transmigrant and wasn't 'absorbed' by the host.

You must be registered for see links

The former Jinchūriki weren't revived with Bijū chakra either, because it has changed the host like Ashura and Indora.

Ψ Veritas Ψ said:
it is clear why kishi gave sasuke hashi's chakra and cells it wasn something temporary infact it was hashiramas cells that awakened the 9t eye remember? sasuke has indras YIN and when given hashis cells he attained "the Yang aka ashuras chakra" therefore he awakened the rinnegan however sasukes Affinity still remains in Yin, given Hagoromos "Moon" aka Yin was given to him, hashis cells just helped fill the requisites for a rinnegan, however given sasuke recieved chakra directly from rikudo his rinnegan somewhat exceeds that of madaras "in my opinion" but lets put that aside my point is they have similar powers to rikudo, but they each hold only "half" of his true power essentially.

You must be registered for see links

There is a reason why Hagoromo said Hashirama was the transmigrant of the previous generation. Your statement would imply that there are over 100000 bodies in this world who hold Ashuras chakra, but I highly doubt that.
Hashiramas cells served a simple purpose~ to revive Sasuke from the dead. Sasuke heartbeat stopped and all his chakra was gone-according to Tobirama(That includes even Hashiramas chakra). Only Hashiramas cells and medical ninjutsu could do something like that.

Madara, Sasuke and Naruto have the same kind of chakra- the Rikudō no Sennin chakra. Hagoromo was born with his mothers chakra inside his body. Kaguya got the chakra of the Shinju. The Jūbi is the incarnation of the Shinju. In this context it's basically on and the same chakra. Only the amount is different. In my opinion the reason why Obito couldn't awake the Rinnegan due to that chakra is that he doesn't have the special "choku tomoe" like Madara, Sasuke and Indora. I think, Indora obtained those tomoe due to his fathers eye power. However, that would also mean Hagoromo had 'choku tomoe' too.

On the other hand Ashuras chakra and Hagoromos Inton wouldn't result in a special hermit chakra. I agree completely with your last statement that Naruto is a half of Hagoromo and Sasuke too. That's what Naruto said anyway.

You must be registered for see links

But according to Narutos statement, only Hagoromo is the source of their new powers.

SIX PATHZ · Jun 6, 2014

Behemoth55 said:
Madara, Sasuke and Naruto have the same kind of chakra- the Rikudō no Sennin chakra. Hagoromo was born with his mothers chakra inside his body. Kaguya got the chakra of the Shinju. The Jūbi is the incarnation of the Shinju. In this context it's basically on and the same chakra. Only the amount is different. In my opinion the reason why Obito couldn't awake the Rinnegan due to that chakra is that he doesn't have the special "choku tomoe" like Madara, Sasuke and Indora. I think, Indora obtained those tomoe due to his fathers eye power. However, that would also mean Hagoromo had 'choku tomoe' too.

we cant assume that sage born with his mothers chakra.he had brother also and even sage's children didnt born with rikudo chakra.so we cant assume that only sage got kaguya chakra.he clearly said kaguya is more powerful than him.

itz so clear about obito and rinnegan coz sage explain that indra+ashura=sage chakra (rinnegan)
obito had no chakra fron indra or ashura.

Hidari · Jun 6, 2014

guts2nevergiveup said:
...

I just finished reading the thread. I've been thinking pretty similar things with respect to the different affinities of the 3 separate dojutsus but I've not been able to put it into a thread.

I also really liked your point about all