Naruto and Hashirama are cocky

lndra

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Susanoo is always the manifestation of the users chakra, but the user can always choose how far to take it, whether it's V1, V2, V3, or PS. Madara (and Sasuke at times) clearly showcased that in the war-arc. Now with Sasuke, he just has a form beyond PS, so naturally it will be stronger. (I do agree that he will always be stronger with Bijuu chakra, but one could argue that as an adult he can match VoTE BPS with his own chakra, and outclass it with Bijuu chakra, but that's reaching with no evidence.)
That's true at bold. PS Was pretty much the climax, until BPS. But there's too much factors in where you would have to classify his power. Because by logic, KA=PS, and Naruto can only surpass himself and Sasuke by gathering a shitload of NE and fusing with two Avatars. It wouldn't make much sense for Sasuke's natural chakra to be on the same level as that power, otherwise KA=PS wouldn't really be equal, it would be more like KA < PS.

Sasuke's PS >>>>>>> VOTE2 Sasuke, that goes along with their powers. Adult Sasuke's BPS >>>>>>> Vote 2 Sasuke's BPS. So he doesn't have to match his old self's form, he already surpassed it.

Anyways, Kishi is a troll, he teased us with this:

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But it went no where. When will they really settle things bewteen them. :dafq:
Knowing Kishimoto, even if they did fight again they would more or less end up in a tie again. Not sure on how they fight would span out, but Kishimoto is consistent with that unless he tries to pull a VoTE1 on us (which I doubt).

I actually like where they stand now, in terms of relationship. I would really enjoy a battle between them now. I just don't want a continuation of the series lmao.
 

ToshiZO

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Hashirama is the cockiest character. Cockier than Madara. But he does back things up.

What Naruto said there was really Hashirama like, way too cocky.
 

The Demon Hawk

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8 1/2 bijuu = juubi full reserves.

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And the bigger it is the more time Naruto has to dodge the linear arrow and laugh as Sasuke's rinnegan overexerts itself.

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What a pathetic counter!

Just because it is close to full and not exactly full, you find the another reason to reuse that gif... You know that you got owned, buddy. So just stop pretending to be tough...

Not to mention that regardless of not having the other half of Kurama, Sasuke could've still produced an Indra's Arrow MUCH bigger and MUCH stronger than what he made at VOTE (going by your logic). So Sasuke was holding back in their final clash (going by your logic).

And Naruto can't dodge the arrow, obviously...

Anyone with a brain knows Naruto and Sasuke are equal.

But that term is also used for Madara and Hashirama. Debating wise, Naruto wins through Asura Avatar in the long run. But overall, they are equals.

Well, if Kishimoto said that Naruto and Sasuke are equal ability-wise, then you've got to go with the fact that Sasuke can create BPS, stronger than his PS obviously. There exists an explanation for this. Otherwise, you got to accept that Naruto can't create 3 faced Kurama Avatar, or if he can, it won't be stronger than his regular Kurama Avatar. There exists an explanation for this as well.

I've seen this point being brought up before, which I can agree on. He could/should be capable of replicating another BPS with his chakra.

The problem here, is the logic that is applied in itself. Which is why I don't understand the point. If theoretically, Sasuke did create BPS with his own chakra, it wouldn't be any near powerful from his regular PS. Why? The Susano'o is already a manifestation of his chakra. Just changing the form isn't going to increase his power, because what he already has just increases with what is already his (did that make sense to you?). The reason why the original BPS was so powerful, was because Sasuke took in an external amount of potent chakra and merged it with his Susano'o.

Anyway, he should at least be capable of replicating an IA at least. Overall Naruto and Sasuke match each other out, whether it be speed, physical prowess, ninjutsu, and etc., But like Madara/Hashirama, one has that single quirk (SS - AA) that brings the match in their favor.

I don't agree with this. However, I won't argue this for now. I have another argument which goes hand in hand with your argument...

BPS was created because Sasuke merged a more potent chakra i.e. Juubi's chakra, with his Susanoo, right? And since Juubi's chakra is as powerful as a chakra can get, this implies that Sasuke's VOTE BPS was as strong as PS could get. But the fact is that Sasuke's chakra was given to him by Sage of the Six Paths, who gave Sasuke the quality counterpart of his chakra. And that chakra was derived from the Juubi, which means that at some point after being matured fully, Sasuke's chakra will equal the potency of Juubi's chakra. When this happens, Sasuke's PS (BPS if shaped so) will be equal to the BPS he created at VOTE, which is basically the strongest a PS can get because the chakra prowess is at its peak. And adding in Juubi's chakra will do nothing aside from expanding Sasuke's reserves since both their chakra potency is same.

And the 3 faced Kurama Avatar was created by enhancing the Avatar with all the NE around. That's the maximum boost Senjutsu could possibly provide since you can't get more NE, which means Naruto's 3 faced Kurama Avatar was the strongest a Kurama Avatar could get. And since this was equal to Sasuke's VOTE BPS which is equal to his current PS means that Sasuke's highest form of Susanoo can parallel Naruto's strongest form of Avatar.

But I have a further explanation. Now as Naruto and Kurama's chakra grow stronger and larger (Naruto's increased and increasing due to chakra maturity and Kurama's increased due to gaining another half), the amount of NE required to empower the Avatar also increases. At some point after the chakra has grown fully, all the NE around would be required to boost the Avatar with Senjutsu. When this happens, Naruto's Kurama Avatar would be equal to the 3 faced version he created at VOTE, which is basically the strongest the Kurama Avatar can get because the amount of NE boost is at its peak. Previously, Naruto needed to merge 3 Avatars to manage all that NE, but now his single Avatar can handle that naturally. Creating a 3 faced Kurama Avatar will merely result in shape change, much like BPS.
 
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To Whatever

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What a pathetic counter!

Just because it is close to full and not exactly full, you find the another reason to reuse that gif... You know that you got owned, buddy. So just stop pretending to be tough...

Not to mention that regardless of not having the other half of Kurama, Sasuke could've still produced an Indra's Arrow MUCH bigger and MUCH stronger than what he made at VOTE (going by your logic). So Sasuke was holding back in their final clash (going by your logic).

And Naruto can't dodge the arrow, obviously...



Well, if Kishimoto said that Naruto and Sasuke are equal ability-wise, then you've got to go with the fact that Sasuke can create BPS, stronger than his PS obviously. There exists an explanation for this. Otherwise, you got to accept that Naruto can't create 3 faced Kurama Avatar, or if he can, it won't be stronger than his regular Kurama Avatar. There exists an explanation for this as well.



I don't agree with this. However, I won't argue this for now. I have another argument which goes hand in hand with your argument...

BPS was created because Sasuke merged a more potent chakra i.e. Juubi's chakra, with his Susanoo, right? And since Juubi's chakra is as powerful as a chakra can get, this implies that Sasuke's VOTE BPS was as strong as PS could get. But the fact is that Sasuke's chakra was given to him by Sage of the Six Paths, who gave Sasuke the quality counterpart of his chakra. And that chakra was derived from the Juubi, which means that at some point after being matured fully, Sasuke's chakra will equal the potency of Juubi's chakra. When this happens, Sasuke's PS (BPS if shaped so) will be equal to the BPS he created at VOTE, which is basically the strongest a PS can get because the chakra prowess is at its peak. And adding in Juubi's chakra will do nothing aside from expanding Sasuke's reserves since both their chakra potency is same.

And the 3 faced Kurama Avatar was created by enhancing the Avatar with all the NE around. That's the maximum boost Senjutsu could possibly provide since you can't get more NE, which means Naruto's 3 faced Kurama Avatar was the strongest a Kurama Avatar could get. And since this was equal to Sasuke's VOTE BPS which is equal to his current PS means that Sasuke's highest form of Susanoo can parallel Naruto's strongest form of Avatar.

But I have a further explanation. Now as Naruto and Kurama's chakra grow stronger and larger (Naruto's increased and increasing due to chakra maturity and Kurama's increased due to gaining another half), the amount of NE required to empower the Avatar also increases. At some point after the chakra has grown fully, all the NE around would be required to boost the Avatar with Senjutsu. When this happens, Naruto's Kurama Avatar would be equal to the 3 faced version he created at VOTE, which is basically the strongest the Kurama Avatar can get because the amount of NE boost is at its peak. Previously, Naruto needed to merge 3 Avatars to manage all that NE, but now his single Avatar can handle that naturally. Creating a 3 faced Kurama Avatar will merely result in shape change, much like BPS.

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Holy shit that wall of text...

He couldnt even use his eye after that arrow, What makes you think he had the capacity to make it bigger?

And Naruto can dodge that arrow. You're downplaying the dude's speed.
 

King of the Heavens

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Stop these kind of thread man please. Just STOP IT. :lmao:

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VongolaX

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Naruto was always being modest and he believed that both of them had the power to kill each other. Naruto didn't want to be in the other end of that killing. That's what he was implying the whole time, but for the long-haired tree hugging hippie, he's a different story completely.
 

Kushina san

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They think they can kill their rivals
You trolling? o_O

Hashirama>>Madara (and Kyuubi) and he killed him.

Naruto= Sasuke, but Naruto did not want to kill him.
 

BlacLord™

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If you say so man.

Sasuke went all out..while Naruto only made sure his power equaled Sasuke so he wouldn't fatally injure him.

It's just the truth.

They're equal.

Neither one of them could land a fatal wound on each other. Going on the defensive just means Naruto is conserving power, yet the battle still ended the same way.
 

The Demon Hawk

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Holy shit that wall of text...

He couldnt even use his eye after that arrow, What makes you think he had the capacity to make it bigger?

And Naruto can dodge that arrow. You're downplaying the dude's speed.

That's because he lost the bijuus chakra after the clash, retard. It was in his Susanoo which got destroyed. The more excuses you find to keep your argument alive, the more badly you get owned and your argument dies...

And Kurama Avatar hasn't shown any speed feats to be capable of dodging Indra's Arrow, so STFU please. And why would Sasuke use Indra's Arrow against Naruto w/o Avatar? You crazy?
 

King Of Pop

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its true in case of hashirama though he was stronger than madara so yh he could kill him if he actually wanted and guess what? he wanted to later on and he did kill him... well until izanagi came into play but in terms of the fight madara was done and dusted.

its different in naruto and sasukes case because naruto full power can only stalemate sasukes at that time so him not wanting to kill is irrelevant as he couldnt the moment absorbed the bijjus. its not like portrayal goes in his favour either if we use past clashes btw them considering sasuke always kicked his ass so yh.
Sasuke could've also absorbed the bijuus chakra early and rekt Naruto instead of playing with Naruto and urging him to get serious just to enjoy the thrill of fight.
or fired the arrow as soon as he got the bijjus chakra and rekt him before he got a chance to absorb all that NE. we can all play ifs so yeah agreed here
 
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Jokule67

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That's because he lost the bijuus chakra after the clash, retard. It was in his Susanoo which got destroyed. The more excuses you find to keep your argument alive, the more badly you get owned and your argument dies...

And Kurama Avatar hasn't shown any speed feats to be capable of dodging Indra's Arrow, so STFU please. And why would Sasuke use Indra's Arrow against Naruto w/o Avatar? You crazy?

Naruto could just dispel the Avatar and fly to dodge it. He definately can do that. However that would be a risk considering he didnt know how the Attack would unfold after it is fired. Kinda like Narutos Fuuton:RS expands when thrown. It was smarter to match it instead dodge. That could've been more fatal.
 

Jokule67

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Hashirama is the cockiest character. Cockier than Madara. But he does back things up.

What Naruto said there was really Hashirama like, way too cocky.

If the 9 bijuu werent there Naruto would have defeated him. But of course Naruto didnt know Sasuke would control and use their power. Naruto's confidennce is not misplaced.
 

To Whatever

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That's because he lost the bijuus chakra after the clash, retard. It was in his Susanoo which got destroyed. The more excuses you find to keep your argument alive, the more badly you get owned and your argument dies...

And Kurama Avatar hasn't shown any speed feats to be capable of dodging Indra's Arrow, so STFU please. And why would Sasuke use Indra's Arrow against Naruto w/o Avatar? You crazy?

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You telling me that dumbass:
+ stored all that chakra in his Susano then got it blown up
+ Was trying to kill Naruto but didn't go all out.

These and him saying he was destined to win and then blowing up their arms by adding enton

2nd Bold: What....

After he shot it Naruto could have just left the cloak and laughed as Sasuke missed.
 
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NarutoX28

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What a pathetic counter!

Just because it is close to full and not exactly full, you find the another reason to reuse that gif... You know that you got owned, buddy. So just stop pretending to be tough...

Don't bother. It's already been shown that having all of the Bijuu's Chakra is enough to revive the Juubi as shown with both Obito and Madara.
 

Jokule67

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Don't bother. It's already been shown that having all of the Bijuu's Chakra is enough to revive the Juubi as shown with both Obito and Madara.

With gedo mazu. Just adding that key part in for you. Dont know what you 2 were talking about lol
 

NarutoX28

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With gedo mazu. Just adding that key part in for you. Dont know what you 2 were talking about lol

That doesn't matter. Sasuke's Susano'o acts as the vessel instead of the Gedo Mazo.
 

Jokule67

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What a pathetic counter!

Just because it is close to full and not exactly full, you find the another reason to reuse that gif... You know that you got owned, buddy. So just stop pretending to be tough...

Not to mention that regardless of not having the other half of Kurama, Sasuke could've still produced an Indra's Arrow MUCH bigger and MUCH stronger than what he made at VOTE (going by your logic). So Sasuke was holding back in their final clash (going by your logic).

And Naruto can't dodge the arrow, obviously...



Well, if Kishimoto said that Naruto and Sasuke are equal ability-wise, then you've got to go with the fact that Sasuke can create BPS, stronger than his PS obviously. There exists an explanation for this. Otherwise, you got to accept that Naruto can't create 3 faced Kurama Avatar, or if he can, it won't be stronger than his regular Kurama Avatar. There exists an explanation for this as well.



I don't agree with this. However, I won't argue this for now. I have another argument which goes hand in hand with your argument...

BPS was created because Sasuke merged a more potent chakra i.e. Juubi's chakra, with his Susanoo, right? And since Juubi's chakra is as powerful as a chakra can get, this implies that Sasuke's VOTE BPS was as strong as PS could get. But the fact is that Sasuke's chakra was given to him by Sage of the Six Paths, who gave Sasuke the quality counterpart of his chakra. And that chakra was derived from the Juubi, which means that at some point after being matured fully, Sasuke's chakra will equal the potency of Juubi's chakra. When this happens, Sasuke's PS (BPS if shaped so) will be equal to the BPS he created at VOTE, which is basically the strongest a PS can get because the chakra prowess is at its peak. And adding in Juubi's chakra will do nothing aside from expanding Sasuke's reserves since both their chakra potency is same.

And the 3 faced Kurama Avatar was created by enhancing the Avatar with all the NE around. That's the maximum boost Senjutsu could possibly provide since you can't get more NE, which means Naruto's 3 faced Kurama Avatar was the strongest a Kurama Avatar could get. And since this was equal to Sasuke's VOTE BPS which is equal to his current PS means that Sasuke's highest form of Susanoo can parallel Naruto's strongest form of Avatar.

But I have a further explanation. Now as Naruto and Kurama's chakra grow stronger and larger (Naruto's increased and increasing due to chakra maturity and Kurama's increased due to gaining another half), the amount of NE required to empower the Avatar also increases. At some point after the chakra has grown fully, all the NE around would be required to boost the Avatar with Senjutsu. When this happens, Naruto's Kurama Avatar would be equal to the 3 faced version he created at VOTE, which is basically the strongest the Kurama Avatar can get because the amount of NE boost is at its peak. Previously, Naruto needed to merge 3 Avatars to manage all that NE, but now his single Avatar can handle that naturally. Creating a 3 faced Kurama Avatar will merely result in shape change, much like BPS.

Sasuke cannot recreate a BPS as powerful as VOTE without the 9 bijuu. Whether a teen or adult. Naruto was stronger than at VOTE because of Sasuke's lack of mastery over Rinnegan. The 9 bijuu evened the playing field for Sasuke.

If Sasuke were to recreate a new BPS with the bijuu it would only be with 8 bijuu as Naruto now has Full Kurama which>the other beasts. Difference this time would be Sasukes MASTERED Rinnegan. With this, even as adults, they would still be equal.

Notice how after VOTE Naruto never used the 8 bijuu again to power up his cloak. Its to powerful and temporary. Just like Sasuke's Bijuu BPS. If Naruto were to get that form again Sasuke would again retrieve the bijuu to match up as Sasuke would not just be fighting 9 bijuu power but also the forces of Nature.
 
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