Madara's Philosophy Vs. Itachi's Philosophy

[Pretentious]

Agreed. Generally the main problem with these types of characters is that they try to solve these problems by themselves. Although, even when you work together the plan still has it's own conflicts.

Really in NV there's no true way to peace no matter what you preach.

I wouldn't say anything is necessarily wrong with "these types of characters" as in life many, if not all individuals attempt succession through sole means first, before aspiring the consensus of other individual help. If anything it's common humaneness.

In the NV, or the real world, peace will never truly be attained; illusions of peace? Undeniable. But true, actual peace? A foolish pipe dream.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

That is true, but here's the thing. How are people suppose to have hope when history keeps repeating itself. NV had four wars. The first war even happened and killed Hashirama, who believed that his dream could achieve peace among all Shinobi. It didn't happen.

People will always think differently, which always results in overall conflict. You have to remember that these villains grew up in the midst of corruption, war, and death.

.Nagato lost his parents and grew up in a war-torn country with no end.

.Sasuke lost all his loved ones in the middle of a blood feud between his family and the village, which also resulted in Itachi's suffering while stripping Sasuke from his innocence.

.Kabuto was forced to become a spy to save his mother's orphanage and he was forced to kill her because of the lies that came with it.

.Karin lost her mother and her clan. She ended up as Orochimaru's lab rat.

.The villages kept fighting, forcing children to kill and kill and kill for the sake of their selfish deeds.

How can these people have hope when nothing got better. Were they just supposed to put their hope in some wild goose chase dream?

and instead of calling a world meeting (perhaphs) and calling people out on their contradictions...let's go ahead and forcefully drag everyone in the world into a global genjutsu against their will!!!!...that's definitely the course of action we should take!!!

madara was a clown

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

and instead of calling a world meeting (perhaphs) and calling people out on their contradictions...let's go ahead and forcefully drag everyone in the world into a global genjutsu against their will!!!!...that's definitely the course of action we should take!!!

madara was a clown

That's not how the world works. Call everyone out and have a meeting and the world is fixed? You really need to look at the things going on in this world to see how your plan would work out. We have the UN, we have enemies talking to each other all the time, none of that does jack shit.

 

[Pretentious]

and instead of calling a world meeting (perhaphs) and calling people out on their contradictions...let's go ahead and forcefully drag everyone in the world into a global genjutsu against their will!!!!...that's definitely the course of action we should take!!!

madara was a clown

This is one of the type of perspectives I'd been talking about (one of more ignorant ones however).

Bold I; a world meeting? How, when you were of no elective power? The world leaders would merely ignore, or if on the off chance acceptance of such a meeting (through Hashirama's position), Madara's ideals would merely be shut down.

Bold II; calling individuals out on their wrongs is something that needed to be done. There are two types of people in this world: Doers, and non-doers. Madara was the former.

Bold III; when the whole world is against you, and you feel as if your ideals are just, and true you take action -- This is exactly what Madara did, he planted the seeds for an autocracy. An autocracy allowed for an adaptable system based on a sole individual (Madara), rather than multiple individuals. In the end yes, to some an autocracy would be labeled flawed, or evil however, to others it'd be revered as necessary, and the perfect action to achieve freedom through illusion; literally IT was what society craves: the illusion of freedom.

Bold IV; a clown? No. Madara was a realist, and an idealist. He if anything would've been a better Hokage than any of the precedent (Tobirama excluded though this is entirely opinionated, as I believe Tobirama was the greatest of all the Hokages).

 

[Inmate]

This is one of the type of perspectives I'd been talking about (one of more ignorant ones however).

Bold I; a world meeting? How, when you were of no elective power? The world leaders would merely ignore, or if on the off chance acceptance of such a meeting (through Hashirama's position), Madara's ideals would merely be shut down.

Bold II; calling individuals out on their wrongs is something that needed to be done. There are two types of people in this world: Doers, and non-doers. Madara was the former.

Bold III; when the whole world is against you, and you feel as if your ideals are just, and true you take action -- This is exactly what Madara did, he planted the seeds for an autocracy. An autocracy allowed for an adaptable system based on a sole individual (Madara), rather than multiple individuals. In the end yes, to some an autocracy would be labeled flawed, or evil however, to others it'd be revered as necessary, and the perfect action to achieve freedom through illusion; literally IT was what society craves: the illusion of freedom.

Bold IV; a clown? No. Madara was a realist, and an idealist. He if anything would've been a better Hokage than any of the precedent (Tobirama excluded though this is entirely opinionated, as I believe Tobirama was the greatest of all the Hokages).

What's your conclusion then? I would like to hear it. Do you think Itachi had a better view than Madara or vice versa? Or you're sitting in the middle of both. I daresay you're mild about this. But I do think that neither were perfect in the ideas just as no one was or is in this world, but they had things figure out greatly. They knew what they were doing, from past experiences and wide observation.

Madara was fixated on forcing his idea of a manipulated pseudo-world that positively granted everyone's wishes and fulfilled their deepest desires. He was also determined prior on recreating the shinobi world through a controversially enforced dictatorship that Hashirama would personally deem unjust. Which personally I think it was unjust since the very purpose of implementing laws and regulations is to protect citizens and all lifeforms to sustain the earth and continue humanity's existence. But Madara unbeknown to him, he was also challenging the very dream he ought to accomplish. Which was to build a world in which peace exists and everyone is happy. How would people be happy about being judged unfairly and without mercy by a system governed by brutality and autocracy?

Itachi nevertheless didn't go along that thought. He believed in what had already been established in the shinobi, but only found flaw in personhood. In how people innately carry themselves selfishly and some other inevitabilities.

Although Madara was more active with his dream and tried rewriting the previously ongoing corruption. His dream had too little supporters, proving how wrong it was. Almost everyone in narutoverse was completely against his ideas.

Naruto's seemed impossible and far-fetched in every sense but it was more so what Itachi would have wanted if he had lived past the Fourth Great Ninja War. Despite being ineffective comparably to Madara's, it does however acknowledge the people, which should be the whole point of leadership, in which Madara failed considering the up to none supporters he had. Hence Itachi's philosophy carries more weight in my opinion

 

[JStar King]

I consider that if they argumented about their ideas, Madara would have the upper hand as he knows the consequences of shinobi world in a deeper way Itachi knows. Of course Itachi would possible match with him as his ideas cling to hope and peace that always will return (after war of course).

The way these two characters were presented, including their philosophies and what they fought for, they to me are two sides of the same coin.

Itachi and Madara were not stupid, which is why I sort of admire the way they think on the basis of our reality. Today, in this world, there is so much conflict and it looks like it's never gonna end. It seems like humanity is nothing, but a virus that is destroying one another.

Just look at our history with slavery, racism, religious wars, etc. It's sad, however, whenever there is darkness, there is light. And that is probably why I haven't given up despite everything.

 

[JStar King]

and instead of calling a world meeting (perhaphs) and calling people out on their contradictions...let's go ahead and forcefully drag everyone in the world into a global genjutsu against their will!!!!...that's definitely the course of action we should take!!!

madara was a clown

Ignorance is bliss, dude. Madara was not a clown; just a broken man who knew the real truth.

Come on, use your brain and look at the world from his prespective and maybe then....you'll understand why he became the man he became.

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[Amenotejikara]

Itachi wins. quote put those real life religious coots in context

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

I'm sold by Itachi's: '...People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true… that is how they define reality. But what does it mean to be correct or true? Merely vague concepts… their reality may all be an illusion.'

Madara haves pretty good ones too, but Itachi nailed it with this one IMO.

To be brutally honest that quote isn´t even original you can hear similar ones, different word same meaning. Actually recently I heard song about this.

OP : Madara :

This world is full of things that don't go as you wish. The longer you live the more you realize that reality is made of nothing but pain, suffering, and emptiness....listen....In this world, wherever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there will always be losers. The selfish desire to maintain peace creates war and hatred is born to protect love

Most epic quote in Naruto.

 

[JStar King]

To be brutally honest that quote isn´t even original you can hear similar ones, different word same meaning. Actually recently I heard song about this.

OP : Madara :

This world is full of things that don't go as you wish. The longer you live the more you realize that reality is made of nothing but pain, suffering, and emptiness....listen....In this world, wherever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there will always be losers. The selfish desire to maintain peace creates war and hatred is born to protect love

Most epic quote in Naruto.

Thanks, man. Madara was a G......and so was Itachi.

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[Pretentious]

What's your conclusion then? I would like to hear it. Do you think Itachi had a better view than Madara or vice versa? Or you're sitting in the middle of both. I daresay you're mild about this. But I do think that neither were perfect in the ideas just as no one was or is in this world, but they had things figure out greatly. They knew what they were doing, from past experiences and wide observation.

Madara was fixated on forcing his idea of a manipulated pseudo-world that positively granted everyone's wishes and fulfilled their deepest desires. He was also determined prior on recreating the shinobi world through a controversially enforced dictatorship that Hashirama would personally deem unjust. Which personally I think it was unjust since the very purpose of implementing laws and regulations is to protect citizens and all lifeforms to sustain the earth and continue humanity's existence. But Madara unbeknown to him, he was also challenging the very dream he ought to accomplish. Which was to build a world in which peace exists and everyone is happy. How would people be happy about being judged unfairly and without mercy by a system governed by brutality and autocracy?

Itachi nevertheless didn't go along that thought. He believed in what had already been established in the shinobi, but only found flaw in personhood. In how people innately carry themselves selfishly and some other inevitabilities.

Although Madara was more active with his dream and tried rewriting the previously ongoing corruption. His dream had too little supporters, proving how wrong it was. Almost everyone in narutoverse was completely against his ideas.

Naruto's seemed impossible and far-fetched in every sense but it was more so what Itachi would have wanted if he had lived past the Fourth Great Ninja War. Despite being ineffective comparably to Madara's, it does however acknowledge the people, which should be the whole point of leadership, in which Madara failed considering the up to none supporters he had. Hence Itachi's philosophy carries more weight in my opinion

More, or less I'm unbias in this case. As neither had a flawless system, nor was it possible to present one, and have an innumerable pro vs con advantageous ratio to decide a winning philosophy.

However, I do in fact side with Itachi on the pretense of a more redefined concept of life than Madara from my perspective. In regards to Itachi you've misconceived a few things;

Bold I; Itachi found flaw in the system similar to Madara -- Present in his quote here: “You focus on the trivial, and lose sight of what is most important, change is impossible in this fog of ignorance. How can we evolve when regulation is all we know?" -- How can change take place when all society knows is current law/authority? How can our perceptual grasp expand if other ideals are not capitalized on? Itachi saw through the seeds of stagnancy -- The reason why Itachi became more than an Uchiha ruled by hatred, it's because his redefined concept of life allowed him to transcend hence this quote he presented regarding the Uchiha clan holding his true potential back.

More or less, Itachi's system would be referenced around Naruto's own, but indefinably more rectified on the shortcomings.

 

[Pretentious]

To be brutally honest that quote isn´t even original you can hear similar ones, different word same meaning. Actually recently I heard song about this.

OP : Madara :

This world is full of things that don't go as you wish. The longer you live the more you realize that reality is made of nothing but pain, suffering, and emptiness....listen....In this world, wherever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there will always be losers. The selfish desire to maintain peace creates war and hatred is born to protect love

Most epic quote in Naruto.

Original =/= It being true, and one of the most impacting quotes in the Naruto franchise.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

That's not how the world works. Call everyone out and have a meeting and the world is fixed? You really need to look at the things going on in this world to see how your plan would work out. We have the UN, we have enemies talking to each other all the time, none of that does jack shit.

you got a better idea?...how about a super genjutsu

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Ignorance is bliss, dude. Madara was not a clown; just a broken man who knew the real truth.

Come on, use your brain and look at the world from his prespective and maybe then....you'll understand why he became the man he became.

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you completely missed my point...madara's answer was retarded

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

This is one of the type of perspectives I'd been talking about (one of more ignorant ones however).

Bold I; a world meeting? How, when you were of no elective power? The world leaders would merely ignore, or if on the off chance acceptance of such a meeting (through Hashirama's position), Madara's ideals would merely be shut down.

Bold II; calling individuals out on their wrongs is something that needed to be done. There are two types of people in this world: Doers, and non-doers. Madara was the former.

Bold III; when the whole world is against you, and you feel as if your ideals are just, and true you take action -- This is exactly what Madara did, he planted the seeds for an autocracy. An autocracy allowed for an adaptable system based on a sole individual (Madara), rather than multiple individuals. In the end yes, to some an autocracy would be labeled flawed, or evil however, to others it'd be revered as necessary, and the perfect action to achieve freedom through illusion; literally IT was what society craves: the illusion of freedom.

Bold IV; a clown? No. Madara was a realist, and an idealist. He if anything would've been a better Hokage than any of the precedent (Tobirama excluded though this is entirely opinionated, as I believe Tobirama was the greatest of all the Hokages).

madara was a CLOWN...his solution of forcefully dragging everyone into a super genjutsu is retarded no matter how you look at it

 

[Pretentious]

madara was a CLOWN...his solution of forcefully dragging everyone into a super genjutsu is retarded no matter how you look at it

Clearly the point of "perspective," and "you can't please everyone" completely went over your head. What you think was "wrong," or "evil" was justified by Madara's perspective, and ideals. An autocracy isn't an evil concept -- I'm disappointed you can't wrap your feeble mind around this fact.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Clearly the point of "perspective," and "you can't please everyone" completely went over your head. What you think was "wrong," or "evil" was justified by Madara's perspective, and ideals. An autocracy isn't an evil concept -- I'm disappointed you can't wrap your feeble mind around this fact.

you saying I'm stupid?

 

[Pretentious]

you saying I'm stupid?

Sure, if the shoe fits -- It's all about perspective after all.

 

[Uchihauzamakibarrage]

This is a really interested thread. All three characters had their own beliefs and ideals; I have to include Nagato in my list because his ideals were just as good. None of these characters were clowns, and I must say, if I have to pick a character with the best philosophies I can't choose one over another because none of them are perfect; and I wouldn't even say one is marginally better than another. In the end, Pain failed, Itachi failed, Madara failed, and even Naruto failed clinging on to the same beliefs of his former Sensei, Jiraiya. There will truly never be this "peace" in the world. It is a cold, cruel place.

 

[Amenotejikara]

OP : Madara :

This world is full of things that don't go as you wish. The longer you live the more you realize that reality is made of nothing but pain, suffering, and emptiness....listen....In this world, wherever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there will always be losers. The selfish desire to maintain peace creates war and hatred is born to protect love

Most epic quote in Naruto.

pfft. just some knock off of what pein said