Madara's Philosophy Vs. Itachi's Philosophy

[JStar King]

Everyone knows that both Madara and Itachi spoke the truth and nothing, but the truth. But who was more right considering their missions and different goals? If both these characters meet, who would win in a debate on the basis of their own purposes and what they fought for in life?

Madara's Quotes:

"This world is full of things that don't go as you wish. The longer you live the more you realize that reality is made of nothing but pain, suffering, and emptiness....listen....In this world, wherever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there will always be losers. The selfish desire to maintain peace creates war and hatred is born to protect love." (To Obito)

"Hashirama's country was nothing more than a shameful contradiction. Man seeks peace, yet at the same time, yearns for war. These are the two realms that solely belong to man. Thinking of peace while spilling blood is something only humans can do. They're two sides of the same coin. To protect something....another must be sacrificed. That is, only than that, a dream world." (To Tobirama)

"Nine-Tails, you are merely a momentary life, a temporary existence of coalesced energy… energy that once was a single, ultimate form! An unstable force, lacking in intelligence or sapience, you require a guide to show you purpose." (To Kurama)

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Itachi's Quotes:

"It's foolish to fear what we've yet to see and know!" (To Yashiro, Tekka, and Inabi)

"...People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true… that is how they define reality. But what does it mean to be correct or true? Merely vague concepts… their reality may all be an illusion." (To Sasuke)

"We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think?" (To Kisame)

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The question simply is, who would win in a debate based on their philosophies and truths. Would they be conflicted or understand each other despite their different missions and goals?

 

[Ricardo]

I'm sold by Itachi's: '...People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true… that is how they define reality. But what does it mean to be correct or true? Merely vague concepts… their reality may all be an illusion.'

Madara haves pretty good ones too, but Itachi nailed it with this one IMO.

 

[JStar King]

I'm sold by Itachi's: '...People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true… that is how they define reality. But what does it mean to be correct or true? Merely vague concepts… their reality may all be an illusion.'

Madara haves pretty good ones too, but Itachi nailed it with this one IMO.

Yeah, but Madara was brutally honest.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

Itachi's philosophies are more abstract and seem to be targeted to the individual while Madara's addresses society as a whole and is able to address a problem. But I think Itachi's life is a testament of Madara's philosophy, as Itachi's life was filled with misery because of the system that Madara hated.

Judging by these quotes, I would think Itachi would accept Madara's goal of IT if it weren't for the White Zetsu retcon that Kishi added to justify the SA. Itachi doesn't even think there is certainty in the reality he lives in so I don't see why he would dismiss being in a genjutsu. But in actuality, Itachi would have continued to resist IT for some reason.

 

[Ricardo]

Yeah, but Madara was brutally honest.

I know, but for some reason on my point of view, Itachi's just nails it on the spot. It makes so much sense on modern concepts of people's ideologies, faith and believes. It's such a wise sentence, makes you question yourself, even though the answer, no matter what of it, might be vague itself.

I'm sold on this one. It's possibly one of my favorite quotes in this manga.

 

[Inmate]

Itachi's are more convincing. Both are from personal experiences, but Itachi's seems more directed towards humanness whereas Madara's is a bit off with that and only focuses on life or society. Madara is indeed brutally truthful, but I'm more taken by Itachi as one's reality differs from another's reality, and knowing a few people that died, I think they did realize "some things" before dying if they were spared until then. Itachi also seems to have had everything figured out after he had died, and someone who has died he pretty much changed while Madara died and came back the same man he was before. So, this goes to Itachi

 

[Inmate]

I know, but for some reason on my point of view, Itachi's just nails it on the spot. It makes so much sense on modern concepts of people's ideologies, faith and believes. It's such a wise sentence, makes you question yourself, even though the answer, no matter what of it, might be vague itself.

I'm sold on this one. It's possibly one of my favorite quotes in this manga.

One of my favorites too. All of Itachi's sayings kind of force a deeper thinking from you

 

[Melanin]

Itachi's philosophy (in my opinion) requires a stronger understanding of pain, suffering and life. An understanding that is more so based around not surrendering to • PAIN, SUFFERING & EMPTINESS • being a victim of circumstance • of succumbing to trivial ideals of being a loser or a winner but rather elevating yourself above such human things knowing that when you die those things knowing don't matter in what's to come.

Madara's entire philosophy screams surrender & give up.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

I'm just saying Itachi's philosophies doesn't tackle much more than what we normally hear in philosophy. Be open minded, can't trust your senses, blah, blah, blah.

Madara's tackles a harsh truth of reality we all try to avoid. We are the winners of this system so I guess his doesn't mean much to us. The only issue with Madara's philosophy is the reality that we cannot change reality so Itachi's might prove to be more meaningful in the end.

Itachi's philosophy (in my opinion) requires a stronger understanding of pain, suffering and life. An understanding that is more so based around not surrendering to • PAIN, SUFFERING & EMPTINESS • being a victim of circumstance • of succumbing to trivial ideals of being a loser or a winner but rather elevating yourself above such human things knowing that when you die those things knowing don't matter in what's to come.

Madara's entire philosophy screams surrender & give up.

I disagree, Itachi's is more so 'deal with it, who knows what might happen, ignorance is bliss'. Madara's is "f*ck this bs, I'mma fix it myself". Madara's doesn't work in reality but if it could work, it would be better.

 

[Pretentious]

I'm appalled nonplussed at Madara's ingenuity. Never had I pegged Madara to be so insightful; however, Itachi far surpasses Madara's outlook on life concepts.

“Those who can’t acknowledge their real selves are bound to fail.”

Think deeply about the above quote, and apply it to every malicious character in the franchise, well as other cartoon-related productions. The realization is quintessential majority of the time.

“This is what happens when you are skilled. Power causes you to become isolated and arrogant.”

This quote significantly applies to Madara, his arrogance had been displayed in a plethora of situations -- Though naturally it'd possibly apply to any skillful individual who harbors no humility.

“How can we evolve when regulation is all we know?”

Powerful, yet subtle. Amazing, yet indirect. -- Several more quotes from Itachi;

“No. I’m telling you to learn to forgive yourself for not being omnipotent. It’s because we can’t do everything ourselves that we have friends to fill in the gaps. They also make sure we don’t undervalue the things we can do. If you want to know who you are, look at your true self once more, and accept what you see. I failed to do this. I lied to everyone, and I spent my life deceiving myself as well. Those who cannot accept themselves will fail. Just like I once did.”

“No single thing is perfect by itself. That’s why we’re born to attract other things to make up for what we lack. I think we start walking in the right direction only after we start getting our counterparts beside us.”

“It is not wise to judge others based on your own preconceptions and by their appearances.”

“Forgive yourself on what you aren’t able to do, if you want to know who you are, you have to look at your real self and acknowledge what you see.”

“The words of a failure making excuses. Are you telling me to admit my limitations and give up?”

“Now I feel that maybe knowing who I actually am is the key to reach perfection. I also couldn’t understand who I was.”

And that's not even the extent of his invaluable wisdom... It's truly believable that at the age of eight his understanding was beyond a Kage. Itachi is a God of wisdom, in all literal sense.

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[JStar King]

Itachi's are more convincing. Both are from personal experiences, but Itachi's seems more directed towards humanness whereas Madara's is a bit off with that and only focuses on life or society. Madara is indeed brutally truthful, but I'm more taken by Itachi as one's reality differs from another's reality, and knowing a few people that died, I think they did realize "some things" before dying if they were spared until then. Itachi also seems to have had everything figured out after he had died, and someone who has died he pretty much changed while Madara died and came back the same man he was before. So, this goes to Itachi

Well, yeah. By the time he turned 7, it was stated that Itachi had the mind of an Hokage.

 

[YellowFang]

Madara's knows what he's saying, he stuck by his sayings through his life and onward...
Itachi also said some deep words but they didn't conclude anything about the condition of life/existence in Shinobi world.

In a debate,
Madara would win...

P.S.
Who are those no names, Itachi is talking to?

 

[Queen of Bananas]

Uchiha's always resort to evil to attain their goals. That's why they always lose. Miserably so too.

 

[Inmate]

I'm just saying Itachi's philosophies doesn't tackle much more than what we normally hear in philosophy. Be open minded, can't trust your senses, blah, blah, blah.

Madara's tackles a harsh truth of reality we all try to avoid. We are the winners of this system so I guess his doesn't mean much to us. The only issue with Madara's philosophy is the reality that we cannot change reality so Itachi's might prove to be more meaningful in the end.


I disagree, Itachi's is more so 'deal with it, who knows what might happen, ignorance is bliss'. Madara's is "f*ck this bs, I'mma fix it myself". Madara's doesn't work in reality but if it could work, it would be better.

True. Itachi is more accepting all the while acknowledging something can individually be done, while Madara is just more focused on fixing up an injured system

 

[Pretentious]

I'm just saying Itachi's philosophies doesn't tackle much more than what we normally hear in philosophy. Be open minded, can't trust your senses, blah, blah, blah.

Madara's tackles a harsh truth of reality we all try to avoid. We are the winners of this system so I guess his doesn't mean much to us. The only issue with Madara's philosophy is the reality that we cannot change reality so Itachi's might prove to be more meaningful in the end.


I disagree, Itachi's is more so 'deal with it, who knows what might happen, ignorance is bliss'. Madara's is "f*ck this bs, I'mma fix it myself". Madara's doesn't work in reality but if it could work, it would be better.

Itachi's wisdom does in fact require deeper thought -- There are two layers, and perhaps with deeper dissection several other meanings. Per-say for example;

“Knowledge and awareness are vague, and perhaps better called illusions. Everyone lives within their own subjective interpretation.”

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[Chikombo]

Madara is evil but I think he would win in a debate over Itachi but Itachi would likely get closer than anyone else. Itachi would surpass Hashirama.

 

[Pretentious]

True. Itachi is more accepting all the while acknowledging something can individually be done, while Madara is just more focused on fixing up an injured system

No...

Itachi's teachings were formed around the basis of correction -- i.e. teamwork, to learn from Itachi's own arrogance in believing everything could be accomplished individually.

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[JStar King]

Uchiha's always resort to evil to attain their goals. That's why they always lose. Miserably so too.

No, they're realist. Hashirama and Naruto believed that they could solve the world's problems through friendship and love. But it doesn't work that way. The world is a cruel place. Madara, Itachi, Obito, and Sasuke knew this. The world was not built on sunshine and rainbows and is evidently clear that the system is corrupted. Like Madara said:

"As long as the concept of winners exist, there will always be losers."

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

Itachi's wisdom does in fact require deeper thought -- There are two layers, and perhaps with deeper dissection several other meanings. Per-say for example;

“Knowledge and awareness are vague, and perhaps better called illusions. Everyone lives within their own subjective interpretation.”

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Right, acknowledging that you might just be wrong about everything is important, but for many people, that idea has had no significance to their lives. You can live thinking the Earth is flat and die thinking that but in the end it didn't affect your life. This quote is suited for religious and Atheistic zealots if anything.

 

[Pretentious]

No, they're realist. Hashirama and Naruto believed that they could solve the world's problems through friendship and love. But it doesn't work that way. The world is a cruel place. Madara, Itachi, Obito, and Sasuke knew this. The world was not built on sunshine and rainbows and is evidently clear that the system is corrupted. Like Madara said:

"As long as the concept of winners exist, there will always be losers."

Unsure why you've quoted my post. I've not acclaimed Itachi not to be a realist. However, both Madara, and Itachi harbored a complex compilation of idealist/realist ideals.

And it's just hilarious that'd you coup Obito, and Sasuke in the same line of reference as Itachi & Madara.

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