Madara is not a killer or evil

[iKaras]

He dropped a god damn meteor on the alliance...twice.

 

[shelke]

I don't understand why Madara's being justified through the pointing of fingers at the Shinobi Aliiance saying, "They asked for it," as if by some twisted logic that makes killing okay and the right thing to do.

I can equate this to the situation Sasuke was exposed to when he fought 1,000 men. They were absolutely nothing to him, and he put them all down without a single killing blow. What of Madara? He didn't show such feelings. He just killed them like they were trash.

Wether they would've done the same to him or not changes nothing about the topic at hand, that being wether Madara is evil or not.

That's not the topic at hand though, is it? The OP is saying that Madara isn't evil. Do you agree with that shelke? I know full well the idiocy of the Shinobi system and all the horrid things they did, and I view a lot of them in similar light as Madara, but I still think Madara's evil.

I don't feel the need to justify crime with crime.


Same story for this.

But does this make Madara any less evil? I don't condone Kage's and support their actions, but I'm not going to gloss over Madara's crimes because of it.

That's not right and you know it. It's a battle field and it's kill or be killed. No charity or ethos are required here for one side trying to take down another. Pointing fingers is crucial to this topic as there has been a whole whole history of sordid violence amongst these Hidden Villages, yet I don't see anyone defacing their own created political systems that were built on cruel and underhanded tactics that were literally the blight of anything called diplomacy. They thwarted every road to peace. How do you school these people? By purging the countries clean of these Hidden Villages as we both know Naruto's moronic ideals would never last.

How is killing a solider who is out to kill you a crime? Try to explain this logic to me. I would equate this to Sasuke killing the Samurai or trying to kill Sakura and Kakashi. All of them were trying to take him down, had he killed all of them, I wouldn't call it evil. In a fight for survival, everything is fair when the other side wants the same.

What you are doing is, taking WAR out of the context completely. Had Madara attacked and killed civilians, I would have agreed with you, but he hasn't. Him killing soldiers is not an evil act given the context.

 

[shelke]

Only if you and other people can actually look deep in the manga. Yet he enjoys killing people to ''amuse'' and have ''fun'' which you call justice? Idiotic.

Base's stupid logic: As long as someone feels guilt or remorse, yet continues mowing down down people for the sake of his Jingoistic ideals and the sham called Necessary Evil, it's all good.

Look deep, my ass. You have only skimmed over the surface and fail to see the context. Perhaps it's you who needs schooling in Literary depths. Some people bite off far more than they can ever handle or chew. Laughable.

 

[Flakez]

Can't believe people actually argue over this Lol. Madara is most certainly a killer and he enjoys it.

 

[Bronze]

Multiple scans show Madara admitting he is killing people to enjoy himself and delaying his plans just to ''kill'' for the fun. Soldiers kill as self defense and protection for their nation. Almost every soldier does not want war, yet out of all people, Madara wants war to kill and have fun and apparently that's called justice? Hahahahaha.

Learn how to actually differ something from something else. This is not even me showing Madara using people from his own family as pawns and enjoys in killing them.

Base's stupid logic: As long as someone feels guilt or remorse, yet continues mowing down down people for the sake of his Jingoistic ideals and the sham called Necessary Evil, it's all good.

Look deep, my ass. You have only skimmed over the surface and fail to see the context. Perhaps it's you who needs schooling in Literary depths. Some people bite off far more than they can ever handle or chew. Laughable.

Forcing someone to do someone to do something you want and they don't want, is not considered ''justice'' or ''peace'', unless you want to agree that rape is fine thing to do as other maniacs have done it. His ideal and goal is not peaceful to begin with, hence why he prevents Obito from casting it or he is casting right now when he has the chance yet refuses to do in order to gain more power.

Context = Madara is evil.

 

[-Spoiler-]

That's not right and you know it. It's a battle field and it's kill or be killed. No charity or ethos are required here for one side trying to take down another. Pointing fingers is crucial to this topic as there has been a whole whole history of sordid violence amongst these Hidden Villages, yet I don't see anyone defacing their own created political systems that were built on cruel and underhanded tactics that were literally the blight of anything called diplomacy. They thwarted every road to peace. How do you school these people? By purging the countries clean of these Hidden Villages as we both know Naruto's moronic ideals would never last.

How is killing a solider who is out to kill you a crime? Try to explain this logic to me. I would equate this to Sasuke killing the Samurai or trying to kill Sakura and Kakashi. All of them were trying to take him down, had he killed all of them, I wouldn't call it evil. In a fight for survival, everything is fair when the other side wants the same.

What you are doing is, taking WAR out of the context completely. Had Madara attacked and killed civilians, I would have agreed with you, but he hasn't. Him killing soldiers is not an evil act given the context.

Now that's BS and you know it even suigetsu called sasuke out on the killing of the samurai since he constantly told him not to kill but stead he turned around and started killing , sasuke attacked the kage summit sasuke invaded while the samurais were defending their territory, and sasuke didn't know sakura was there to kill him he's not a mind reader he attacked her on his own accord.

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

This is NB logic. So some guy goes around claiming to be Madara for years and wreaking havoc on the entire planet, threatening all the kages and proclaiming war. Then suddenly the actual Madara is spawned into a war as an edo with full war armour on and an entire alliance hating you.... Not knowing what the heck is going on. Do you expect him to surrender and go home? Im asking you NB?

 

[~Sky~]

That's not right and you know it. It's a battle field and it's kill or be killed. No charity or ethos are required here for one side trying to take down another. Pointing fingers is crucial to this topic as there has been a whole whole history of sordid violence amongst these Hidden Villages, yet I don't see anyone defacing their own created political systems that were built on cruel and underhanded tactics that were literally the blight of anything called diplomacy. They thwarted every road to peace. How do you school these people? By purging the countries clean of these Hidden Villages as we both know Naruto's moronic ideals would never last.

How is killing a solider who is out to kill you a crime? Try to explain this logic to me. I would equate this to Sasuke killing the Samurai or trying to kill Sakura and Kakashi. All of them were trying to take him down, had he killed all of them, I wouldn't call it evil. In a fight for survival, everything is fair when the other side wants the same.

What you are doing is, taking WAR out of the context completely. Had Madara attacked and killed civilians, I would have agreed with you, but he hasn't. Him killing soldiers is not an evil act given the context.

A soldier out to kill me? Self-defense is critical, but what is self defense for Madara? What in the Shinobi alliance could he possibly have to defend himself from? It's not a proper analogy, self defense is out the window when you have the power to destroy mountains and summon meteors compared to people who's skills are limited to Kunai tossing and sword swinging.

Madara didn't even need to engage them, that's how low they were too him. So instead of equating this to a self defense situation, let's equate this to ants trying to crawl up our feet, and then gleefully killing their entire colony in response. And Sasuke was a different person when he fought the samurai than from when he fought the 1,000 soldiers.

Naruto's ideals are above the heads of human nature, that's for sure. The peace wouldn't be lasting, I think we all know that. Peace breads corruption and the flames of war makes one value what peace is meant to be again. But what of Madara's actions? I see no end, but only means. I only see killing with no goal. Just killing to kill. Engaging in war not because it's necessary, but because it's fun to him.

It's rare for killing to be justified, but Madara's done too much in his lifetime for me to even think about digging up excuses for his actions. The situational excuse can only go so far, but that's just my view on it.

 

[shelke]

Forcing someone to do someone to do something you want and they don't want, is not considered ''justice'' or ''peace'', unless you want to agree that rape is fine thing to do as other maniacs have done it. His ideal and goal is not peaceful to begin with, hence why he prevents Obito from casting it or he is casting right now when he has the chance yet refuses to do in order to gain more power.

Context = Madara is evil.

Wars are born out of forcing your own ideals on others. That is how in olden times people fought wars over religion, ideals, race etc. I can even start quoting how Zoroastrian religion came into existence and how it ended - all over greed of the families that controlled the area at that time. But that would be far too heavy for this silly base.

Had any of these Nations thought that their ideals and supremacy isn't of value but equality should established, it never would have escalated into three great wars and so much blood shed. Peace is a far-fetched notion in a military set-up and as long as differences exist there will always be conflicts and that would ultimately lead to wars. It's a simplistic factor, really.

Now that's BS and you know it even suigetsu called sasuke out on the killing of the samurai since he constantly told him not to kill but stead he turned around and started killing , sasuke attacked the kage summit sasuke invaded while the samurais were defending their territory, and sasuke didn't know sakura was there to kill him he's not a mind reader he attacked her on his own accord.

Suigetsu was called a genius who decapitated people and cut off their limbs. I doubt he's a good judge of character. Those Samuari, despite Sasuke warning them, charged with the intent to Kill. If Sasuke killed them, then he did so to survive. Their deaths are their own faults.

Really? The samurai attacked because Sasuke infiltrated. When Gaara told them to back off, they listened. None of them trusted each other. It was a failed summit, which ended in one member casting genjutsu on their leader. To them, all ninjas should have been painted in the same colour.

As for Sakura, then you think Sasuke is stupid? She hesitated and he saw right through her. It was not that hard to tell what her intentions were.

 

[Murasame]

If I remember correctly wasn't there a scan when Madara was revived that he said he would finally get to enjoy the feeling of crushing skulls? Doesn't sound like something a good guy or a normal guy would say but more like an evil person would say.

 

[-Punk-]

As expected hot thread .....where's my cookie ?

 

[-Spoiler-]

Suigetsu was called a genius who decapitated people and cut off their limbs. I doubt he's a good judge of character. Those Samuari, despite Sasuke warning them, charged with the intent to Kill. If Sasuke killed them, then he did so to survive. Their deaths are their own faults.

Really? The samurai attacked because Sasuke infiltrated. When Gaara told them to back off, they listened. None of them trusted each other. It was a failed summit, which ended in one member casting genjutsu on their leader. To them, all ninjas should have been painted in the same colour.

As for Sakura, then you think Sasuke is stupid? She hesitated and he saw right through her. It was not that hard to tell what her intentions were.

That not the point he constantly told suigetsu no killing and then turn around and did it himself spare me the BS there was plenty of ways sasuke could have put down the samurais without killing similar to how he defeated the thousand ninjas without killing any of them he kill because he wanted to not because he was defending himself.

 

[shelke]

A soldier out to kill me? Self-defense is critical, but what is self defense for Madara? What in the Shinobi alliance could he possibly have to defend himself from? It's not a proper analogy, self defense is out the window when you have the power to destroy mountains and summon meteors compared to people who's skills are limited to Kunai tossing and sword swinging.

Madara didn't even need to engage them, that's how low they were too him. So instead of equating this to a self defense situation, let's equate this to ants trying to crawl up our feet, and then gleefully killing their entire colony in response. And Sasuke was a different person when he fought the samurai than from when he fought the 1,000 soldiers.

Naruto's ideals are above the heads of human nature, that's for sure. The peace wouldn't be lasting, I think we all know that. Peace breads corruption and the flames of war makes one value what peace is meant to be again. But what of Madara's actions? I see no end, but only means. I only see killing with no goal. Just killing to kill. Engaging in war not because it's necessary, but because it's fun to him.

It's rare for killing to be justified, but Madara's done too much in his lifetime for me to even think about digging up excuses for his actions. The situational excuse can only go so far, but that's just my view on it.

I am sorry, but you are being highly childish. It's war, Madara's actions given the context are justified. There is no such thing as necessity in war. Honestly, I knew sooner or later someone would bring this up. Ideals and differences create wars and in modern times, it's Nationalism, resources, and political monopoly. If Nationalism necessitates mass-scale slaughters like in Iraq and Afghanistan, then I'll be damned.

All these Shinobis kill, period. They are nothing but killing machines for their leaders. Why do you keep forgetting that? The reason why his kills seem more to you is because he has the upper hand and is a one man Army at this point. The alliance has been using Hachibi and Kurama as well, two powerful tailed beasts as well. They are all pulling all stops. Come the heck on! Stating that I am making excuses and then not espying the alliances tactics is being skewed.

 

[Bronze]

Wars are born out of forcing your own ideals on others. That is how in olden times people fought wars over religion, ideals, race etc. I can even start quoting how Zoroastrian religion came into existence and how it ended - all over greed of the families that controlled the area at that time. But that would be far too heavy for this silly base.

Had any of these Nations thought that their ideals and supremacy isn't of value but equality should established, it never would have escalated into three great wars and so much blood shed. Peace is a far-fetched notion in a military set-up and as long as differences exist there will always be conflicts and that would ultimately lead to wars. It's a simplistic factor, really.

No its not. Not every war has that same purpose you claimed. Some wars are based on, self defense example being America attacking Iraq for thinking they have nuclear bomb that was going to be used on them or world war, and some others are based on ideals as you said. And your claim of war does not even coincide the 4th Shinobi war, which's purpose is to defeat the ones opposing their alliance.
And its the government who are doing that, soldiers are forced to do it regardless. So the country's view isn't same as government who are arrogant in a way.

Let me use your logic against you. You say its justice to something that many people has done, well in that case, i can basically rape kids and use the actions of others who did it as well, as a way to justify my action. Do you agree with that crap? I seriously hope not.

 

[shelke]

That not the point he constantly told suigetsu no killing and then turn around and did it himself spare me the BS there was plenty of ways sasuke could have put down the samurais without killing similar to how he defeated the thousand ninjas without killing any of them he kill because he wanted to not because he was defending himself.

Maybe you should spare me this preachy BS. They attacked with the intent to kill and sealed their fates because the opponent was stronger. Bet they never saw that coming? Nothing evil or cruel about it.

 

[-Spoiler-]

Maybe you should spare me this preachy BS. They attacked with the intent to kill and sealed their fates because the opponent was stronger. Bet they never saw that coming? Nothing evil or cruel about it.

So according to you they were suppose to stand by and watch someone attack the summit? really whats the purpose of guards then?

 

[shelke]

No its not. Not every war has that same purpose you claimed. Some wars are based on, self defense example being America attacking Iraq for thinking they have nuclear bomb that was going to be used on them or world war, and some others are based on ideals as you said. And your claim of war does not even coincide the 4th Shinobi war, which's purpose is to defeat the ones opposing their alliance.
And its the government who are doing that, soldiers are forced to do it regardless. So the country's view isn't same as government who are arrogant in a way.

Let me use your logic against you. You say its justice to something that many people has done, well in that case, i can basically rape kids and use the actions of others who did it as well, as a way to justify my action. Do you agree with that crap? I seriously hope not.

America has been developing Nuclear War-heads and Weapons of Mass destruction for decades. Any Nation has a right to shore up its defenses. Self-Defense, by Launching a strike on a Nation with no proof? This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Wars are never fought without oppositions. In previous WWs, Villages were fighting against each other, now it's another opposition. It doesn't change the fact that it's, still at the end of the day, nothing but War and you absolutely cannot take anything out of the context, just because you feel so.

That doesn't even make any sense ...

 

[shelke]

So according to you they were suppose to stand by and watch someone attack the summit? really whats the purpose of guards then?

Sasuke never attacked the Summit. He even warned the Samurai to back off, as it didn't concern them. If that was not clear cut enough for them, then I don't know what was. Anyhow, stay on topic, this thread has little to do with Sasuke.

 

[Bronze]

America has been developing Nuclear War-heads and Weapons of Mass destruction for decades. Any Nation has a right to shore up its defenses. Self-Defense, by Launching a strike on a Nation with no proof? This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Wars are never fought without oppositions. In previous WWs, Villages were fighting against each other, now it's another opposition. It doesn't change the fact that it's, still at the end of the day, nothing but War and you absolutely cannot take anything out of the context, just because you feel so.

That doesn't even make any sense ...

Once again, its the government who does that. Government have too much power to do anything without caring about the weak ones. And who said government aren't good guys? Nobody unless you're an idiot.

The difference between war and Madara's portrayal as evil or not, is war are done based on self defense. Madara is fighting to enjoy himself as he crushes skulls. One is balanced, the other is evil.

I will make it simple. If i rape kids, and use the actions of those who done it to justify my action, does that mean its fine thing to do?

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

Sasuke never attacked the Summit. He even warned the Samurai to back off, as it didn't concern them. If that was not clear cut enough for them, then I don't know what was. Anyhow, stay on topic, this thread has little to do with Sasuke.

Yes, correct. Sasuke was attacked, and the normal response to that is to defend yourself.