Konoha Tavern - RP General Chat Discussion

System001

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[BOLD] Huh? Ceiling? Bail Out? Sounds like you are giving up instead of trying to break the Ceiling?

[Underline} We can only go off Manga logic though. Through y'all exploring, you started exploiting ways to 'break the game' which is why restrictions were placed. You guys were trying to be Gods.

[RED] You cannot change Steel into a gas because the science says so. However, you can create "Liquid Steel" using Fire Release as the bases, but it got to make sense though (I assume).
Who is 'you guys'. This all sounds very accusatory and somewhat salty.
In one line you're saying i'm a quitter for not making things stronger than they're allowed, and then the next saying that I'm exploiting things...for making them stronger than they're allowed? Very interesting.

Actually, metal can be vapor. Not a true gas, but for functional RP purposes still much the same.

Also, who are you exactly? Are you one of those people who talks without doing, or have you actually done something?
I need to know, because I don't engage in 'your ignorance is as good as my experience' discussions.
 

Urda

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Thats only if youre thinking by hard scientific logic but the anine can make other stuff happen. Best example is storm release deacribed as "lightning that flows like water" so elements can be given different proporties or matter states




So artifacts were mainly meant to be lile supplementary things, like the old akatsuki rings? Or is that wrong.

Man i hope my cloak was ok.....
You are making a sound like Naruto is using magic. This ain't Fairy Tail.

EDITED: I forgot the introduction of Yin-Yang change everything.

EDITED EDITED: Just to be clear, I don't see chakra as magic. And I see ninja's as Super Humans.

Wiki actually made that up. According to the databook, it like emitting lasers.

Who is 'you guys'. This all sounds very accusatory and somewhat salty.
In one line you're saying i'm a quitter for not making things stronger than they're allowed, and then the next saying that I'm exploiting things...for making them stronger than they're allowed? Very interesting.

Actually, metal can be vapor. Not a true gas, but for functional RP purposes still much the same.

Also, who are you exactly? Are you one of those people who talks without doing, or have you actually done something?
I need to know, because I don't engage in 'your ignorance is as good as my experience' discussions.
If you feel "accused" and "salty" about what I said then I can't help you.

That's basically what happened. Everybody was complaining about some Jutsu being hard to counter or being too overpowered. There are still Custom Jutsu being made giving themselves a random boost.

[RED] We are just having a discussion. You don't have to talk to me.
 
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Delta

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I personally think the mindset of "it'll upset people" needs to go when it comes to making big changes. End of the day, 99% of changes will produce better results in the long run, and theres nothing stopping a failed change from reverting, but this notion of, "We cant change this too many people will complain" or "It will be unfair to some people" has got to go, emotions will fade over time as people get over it, and worst case scenario, just start polling shit, people can't complain then if its a majority vote
 
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RuckenTM

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I personally think the mindset of "it'll upset people" needs to go when it comes to making big changes. End of the day, 99% of changes will produce better results in the long run, and theres nothing stopping a failed change from reverting, but this notion of, "We cant change this too many people will complain" or "It will be unfair to some people" has got to go, emotions will fade over time as people get over it, and worst case scenario, just start polling shit, people can't complain then if its a majority vote
Test runs basically.
 

Alternative

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You are making a sound like Naruto is using magic. This ain't Fairy Tail.

Wiki actually made that up. According to the databook, it like emitting lasers.
TIL spitting fireballs and lightning at each other is not magic. 📝

But anyway, back to the WWA thing, is it possible to make some kind of double-or-nothing system but with kumi? Say, you win a fight, you get so much kumi. Should you decide to stay and win another fight, that reward doubles, and so on (up to a cap?) until you decide to quit. But if you lose, you don't get any kumi, making it some kind of high-risk, high-reward activity.

Another idea I had was to make it an area someone can claim for income, but they have to defend the area in order to keep that income. Being able to hold the claim for so long awards kumi, and the "king" continuously gains more kumi until they're overthrown. In saying that, the person wouldn't be able to leave, otherwise they give up the claim.
 
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Zatanna

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The best change ever made was a massive shake up to the RP. Changing ranks from posts to actual skills/merit was a big change that made a huge difference to the RP. And it was great.

I still like the idea of a Battle Royal event, where theres the whole land of tobuseki people can start in, and ever 7 days, say 3 or 4 landmarks get removed from the play zone, which gradually forces people in and together
 
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Never

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The best change ever made was a massive shake up to the RP. Changing ranks from posts to actual skills/merit was a big change that made a huge difference to the RP. And it was great.

I still like the idea of a Battle Royal event, where theres the whole land of tobuseki people can start in, and ever 7 days, say 3 or 4 landmarks get removed from the play zone, which gradually forces people in and together
Yeah the whole Rank System Reform was an amazing change for the better of the RP
 

Urda

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TIL spitting fireballs and lightning at each other is not magic. 📝

But anyway, back to the WWA thing, is it possible to make some kind of double-or-nothing system but with kumi? Say, you win a fight, you get so much kumi. Should you decide to stay and win another fight, that reward doubles, and so on (up to a cap?) until you decide to quit. But if you lose, you don't get any kumi, making it some kind of high-risk, high-reward activity.

Another idea I had was to make it an area someone can claim for income, but they have to defend the area in order to keep that income. Being able to hold the claim for so long awards kumi, and the "king" continuously gains more kumi until they're overthrown. In saying that, the person wouldn't be able to leave, otherwise they give up the claim.
I get what you are saying but it's not my idea of magic, but that's just me.
 

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TIL spitting fireballs and lightning at each other is not magic. 📝

But anyway, back to the WWA thing, is it possible to make some kind of double-or-nothing system but with kumi? Say, you win a fight, you get so much kumi. Should you decide to stay and win another fight, that reward doubles, and so on (up to a cap?) until you decide to quit. But if you lose, you don't get any kumi, making it some kind of high-risk, high-reward activity.

Another idea I had was to make it an area someone can claim for income, but they have to defend the area in order to keep that income. Being able to hold the claim for so long awards kumi, and the "king" continuously gains more kumi until they're overthrown. In saying that, the person wouldn't be able to leave, otherwise they give up the claim.
I had considered double or nothing for winning fights actually. It was an appealing idea. More investigation to follow.
 

Drackos

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I've settled on how I'll be making Witchwood in Arc 15. Thanks for all the feedback; a lot of this will find its way into the rules in some form or shape and I think it'll make a lot of people happy.

Witchwood was always intended to be the brutal PVP arena that it is. It isn't supposed to be the main feature of the Ninja World, but it wasn't supposed to be vacant either. So we'll see how it goes. The second revision to the Ninja World Rules will be posted sometime before Arc 15 (August). The Witchwood Arena will be reopening at that time.
 

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You can sell your created abilities, including custom jutsu, custom summoning contracts, custom elements, everything. That can be your income if you like creating. Custom elements usually go for 5k, individual customs can be sold in scalable amounts up to 5k so if you get max profit by connecting with the right people who desperately want what you have for 5k a pop you can get your Children of Tiamat biography by selling five custom slots. Keep in mind you get 6 slots per custom jutsu, so that means 1 of your customs, sold to the right individuals can make you 5000 kumi x 6 slots = 30000 kumi. That's investing in the creation of one custom you can sell, make that bitch worth it and you'll get what you've earned. The system to gain exponential kumi wealth is there.​

You can also sell biography templates, someone just sold me one for 4k and they can sell for up to 5k as the system allows single things to be sold for at maximum 5k. That's 5 biographies at max profit and you have a Children of Tiamat biography or Yin/Yang and those are high tier 5 abilities. You're getting EIG in 2, or Poison Ninjutsu in 1. This is another way a non-NW-roleplayer can gain a steady source of income. If they like making biographies look dope for other people and are good at it they can do that and get paid to.​

Also, prizes for tournaments are still rather big things let's take the last tournament and @ReXii for example he just got a Sage Weapon for his prize along with other things including a special artifact, and a new biography specialty. That's worth more than 25k kumi in retrospect. If he had taken just plain Sage Rank, which was an option, sans Sage Weapon that is a 25k kumi prize. That's not including the secondary Time Dial and the tertiary biography specialty. That's easily a 35k kumi prize for the tournament. You like fighting in tournaments and you're good at it? Do it, it's worth the investment if you can win, you're getting a value worth a tier 5 ability.​

The system doesn't revolve directly around the NW itself, the NW is just a way to access currency for being active in it and differs from trading because like battling it is a "production" method over a "circulation" method. You can instead battle to gain it, trade to gain it, sell things to gain it, but you have to do something. You're not going to get it by doing nothing at all, you have to interconnect with and roleplay with others, find people willing to buy your things, create things worth buying etc. Merchants can even sell their creations for ryo or kumi respectively, which can be a source of income.​

There are various ways to obtain it, and it has an economy built around it. The main difference is missions in the NW, and battles in the battle arena produce it. Trading customs etc doesn't "produce it" it merely "circulates" already created kumi. Then of course spending it on abilities destroys it. That is an economy by definition and makes it so everyone can have access to what they want. Compared to the archaic permission-based system which judged people solely on how well others thought they were. Now individuals have the ability to directly take the initiative to get what they want.

Look at me, I went from nothing to having full Yin-Yang in a year. Something I would have never gotten without the system.​

As a returning roleplayer, I just don't think you get all of the ways you can obtain kumi which is understandable.​

You have some dope oldie cj, or are really good at creating customs people vie for? Sell em.​

You have biography making skills, that attract people's eye? Use em.​

You have battle skills and want to beat the shit out of people for kumi? Do it.​

You want to play solo and do missions, building a story of your own, while being compensated? Go for it.​

You want to win tournaments and get tier 5 abilities? Again, do you.​

You can sell anything you have, but the shirt off your back, and knowing this roleplay you might find someone willing enough.​

People even doing shady black market deals, selling their accounts and stuff. Just don't get caught, and if you get burned it's on you.​

I didn't tell you about that last one, if any one asks. It's just between you and me, and this happy little tree. 🌳

Edit: Rereading what you said fully if you're asking "Can roleplayers come back after 4 months and have accumulated wealth for no reason." Nolol. Activity = rewards. Inactivity = nothing. Just find the activity that works for you, and lean into it. No one is going to get paid for just sitting around, you'd not be doing anything worth abilities if you're not playing. So for example, if you want to show up once every month for a battle, then if you win you'll be getting 500 kumi, though you shouldn't be rewarded as much as someone who is avidly battling numerous people, or someone who is working tirelessly in the NW, or creating cj non-stop, or busting their ass on biographies etc.

It's also my personal opinion there shouldn't be any payment for inactivity, ever, nor do we need a passive income system. Even mods and sensei only get paid for working, not for just existing. Power creep happens when people play the game. As someone with full Yin-Yang, Medical Ninjutsu, and every other ability, you shouldn't feel power creep unless you're talking about missing out on the meta. Yeah, you're behind on the meta because it shifts. Customs changed. Boosts and abilities are paramount right now.
My point was that the NW was a production activity for Kumi for being active in the NW. Being active in other areas of the RP wasn't exactly producing Kumi.

Never said it wasn't an Economy I think. Said that, in my opinion, as someone that returned a bit to the RP, it might need a bit of rebalancing. A criticism over the years with the RP was that it took too long to fully experience all the RP had to give. It was too slow. This economy doesn't seem to tackle that fully. Again, just my opinion.

Never compared the current system with the permission system in place when I was mod. Never said this one was worse or better. But, if you want a comparisson, yes, this one does give more agency to players which is obviously a benefit for the RP and combats the elitism that once was a problem.

Didn't ask for a Kumi paycheck just for existing lol. I think I didn't explain myself as I should have. What I meant was that, as someone who returned, what seemed to me, was that the Kumi economy seemed too heavily focused and concentrated in the Nw which allienates players that might not want to play in the NW but might be ACTIVE in other sections of the RP. The RP is now wholy focused on the NW. Again, this is what it looks like to me.

I SHOULD feel power creep. Its normal. Same as someone who was rping before my time if he or she came in today would feel power creep. Its normal. I simply said it was an unavoidable aspect of RPG games. Power creep exists. And in a way thats what makes an RP move. You need things to get stronger so you always have something to chase. Something to get. And the ones who stay and keep chasing it are rewards while the ones that stopped playing and return find themselves behind on power. Thats how it should be.

I honestly think you saw in my words some form of criticism that wasn't there. I was giving my opinion as someone who took a long time off and returned. I gave that opinion through that lens. However, I didn't say this system was better or worse. I didn't say I felt like I needed to be rewarded for doing nothing. I didn't say I in particular felt that I needed to still have the power I had at a given point in the RP. No. I'm just a guy that came back to talk to some people, have some battles and do some customs. I don't expect to still be strong. I don't expect to pawn everyone. Nothing like that. And all of it is ok man. I was away and the game changed and evolved as it should have. :) Seriously.
 
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Howard

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My point was that the NW was a production activity for Kumi for being active in the NW. Being active in other areas of the RP wasn't exactly producing Kumi.

Never said it wasn't an Economy I think. Said that, in my opinion, as someone that returned a bit to the RP, it might need a bit of rebalancing. A criticism over the years with the RP was that it took too long to fully experience all the RP had to give. It was too slow. This economy doesn't seem to tackle that fully. Again, just my opinion.

Never compared the current system with the permission system in place when I was mod. Never said this one was worse or better. But, if you want a comparisson, yes, this one does give more agency to players which is obviously a benefit for the RP and combats the elitism that once was a problem.

Didn't ask for a Kumi paycheck just for existing lol. I think I didn't explain myself as I should have. What I meant was that, as someone who returned, what seemed to me, was that the Kumi economy seemed too heavily focused and concentrated in the Nw which allienates players that might not want to play in the NW but might be ACTIVE in other sections of the RP. The RP is now wholy focused on the NW. Again, this is what it looks like to me.

I SHOULD feel power creep. Its normal. Same as someone who was rping before my time if he or she came in today would feel power creep. Its normal. I simply said it was an unavoidable aspect of RPG games. Power creep exists. And in a way thats what makes an RP move. You need things to get stronger so you always have something to chase. Something to get. And the ones who stay and keep chasing it are rewards while the ones that stopped playing and return find themselves behind on power. Thats how it should be.

I honestly think you saw in my words some form of criticism that wasn't there. I was giving my opinion as someone who took a long time off and returned. I gave that opinion through that lens. However, I didn't say this system was better or worse. I didn't say I felt like I needed to be rewarded for doing nothing. I didn't say I in particular felt that I needed to still have the power I had at a given point in the RP. No. I'm just a guy that came back to talk to some people, have some battles and do some customs. I don't expect to still be strong. I don't expect to pawn everyone. Nothing like that. And all of it is ok man. I was away and the game changed and evolved as it should have. :) Seriously.
Missions produce it, battling produces it, tournaments produce it, then there are things that move it around like trading, purchasing etc. Finally, it's destroyed when it's spent on abilities through the shop. The same way a mint produces money, people earn it through work and then by buying goods and services they move it around until it returns to the mint to be destroyed.

You stated "You want the economy to move and by dynamic. Atm, it seems it isn't." Which was what I was replying to. It does move, it is dynamic. People trade all the time @Red-Robin is an example of this. He's gradually gaining the abilities he wants by diversifying. He roleplays in the NW, he battles in the BA, he makes biography templates, he's making and selling customs. He basically bought Poison Release by making me a dope biography, before that he got himself Medical Ninjutsu by doing missions. He earned that kumi with a skill not directly related to the NW to obtain Poison Release, and he used his activity in the NW to gain Medical Ninjutsu. The methods are there. People need to interact with them, you can do it as fast or as slow as you want. There is no wall in your way but your own willingness to perform a profitable function.

What about the economy doesn't seem dynamic? What can be improved? I don't see anything, because I really enjoy it and like this system. Activity in any manner or form can get you what you want. I mentioned all the ways, reiterating would be pointless. As I mentioned, I don't think you saw all the ways possible to gain kumi. Which is normal, you're returning. You're not expected to know all of the rule changes. You remember when training used to take 6 months for a single element? When permissions were only given out to those who were "good enough" "skilled enough" or "strong enough?"

Tackle what? What other ways do you think there needs to be, to produce kumi? A completely new player can intuitively learn the elements, without training with a sensei, gaining abilities as they rank up. They can rank up through missions or battles, or both at the same time to make it faster. They can gain abilities rather quickly, in my examples, they could get Medical Ninjutsu by selling 1 CJ slot, by making 1 biography for a friend, by performing 5 A-rank missions ( like 3 S-rank missions ) or by winning 10 battles. They can even bet kumi on battles, they can gamble their way to more kumi against others.

There are numerous ways to gain kumi as stated. Everything you do can be monetized in some way if you want to.

We agree. Power creep happens. I'm not saying it doesn't.

I didn't take it as criticism, because I didn't even make or partake in the creation of the kumi system. I'm just someone who saw how easy it was to finally have a way to access what I wanted for years. I wasn't "good enough" "smart enough" or "liked enough" in the era of permissions to get the abilities that were gated. Though with the kumi system I was able to get Yin-Yang, the full thing, + Fuuin in one year, that means anyone can that's nearly 100k kumi worth of abilities. How fast do you feel people should be able to obtain abilities? Using @Red-Robin again for example as I know what he's been doing, he has been rp'ing for like 3-4 months now I believe starting from scratch and has Medical Ninjutsu an ability that took me 5 years to get permission for in the old system. He got Poison Release in that same timeframe,e he has goals and is working toward them, and they are attainable, which I feel is great. When I posted all those methods I was trying to explain the various ways anyone could obtain kumi and why the system is dynamic.

As a returning player, you may not see them all, or see how fast kumi moves, how fast it gets made in one mission, or production method, then traded in a CJ trade, or bio exchange and then destroyed in a purchase. I got back mod pay, another way kumi is produced, same with sensei pay, the next day I asked someone to make me a bio, the day after it was done, I paid what was owed by agreeing and 3-4 days later the kumi exchange post was checked, Red-Robin bought his ability and that kumi was already destroyed. It happened in a week or less. There are outlets for creatives, for traders, for gamblers, for storytellers, for fighters, and even for the social butterfly who can just talk friends into giving them their kumi for things it's not worth.
 
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