[Discussion] Kage Level Ranking

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Okay, one thing we'd have to say is I love how you guys put Naruto below Jiraiya. Fukasaku said that Naruto has surpassed those who came before him, and the Fourth and Jiraiya were behind him in image form when they said that. THIS IS NOT A BIASED VIEW, as Jiraiya was taught by the toads personally, they knew his abilities, and likely knew Minatos as well because he had their contract and the ability to summon them.
This is very different from when Pain was saying "oh if Jiraiya knew my secret he would have won". One thing, Pain was a student of Jiraiya, another thing is that Pain had a sense of honor, and this may have been said out of respect for Jiraiya. The last thing I'd like to point out is that keeping your techniques secret is what you are SUPPOSED to do in a fight. As I have stated in MANY threads before this is that if you sit there and tell your enemy what you are going to do before you do it, of COURSE they would be able to do something about it. Naruto coulda died in his fight with Mizuki if he woulda said "well I'm gonna make a thousand dopplegangers to kick your ass". All Mizuki would have had to do is just stop him from making hand signs with that big ass shuriken. That probably wouldn't have happened, but it had a MUCH higher probability of happening had Naruto not kept his mouth shut (even though he did say he'd return whatever pain Mizuki gave him back a thousand times, Mizuki took it as a royal ass beating that Naruto was threatening him with).

On top of that, if Naruto is stronger than Jiraiya at this point, then he DAMN sure is stronger than Orochimaru. It doesnt matter if he isn't as good as Jiraiya is without Sage Mode. He can USE Sage Mode regardless, and his is better than Jiraiyas. We also havent seen the extent of the Kyuubi-Sage Mode ability. I'm sure that'd be pretty kickass.

Sasuke is also stronger than Orochimaru by this point. Orochimaru is not set up for Susanoo, nor can he really repair from an Amaterasu that burns his full body. His oral rebirth techique would be useful, but all Sasuke would have to do is use an Enton to manipulate Amaterasu's flames right back onto him. I mean, Susanoo made Orochimaru its B****, and from what we've seen, Sasuke has been seen using it.

Though Jiraiya is one of my more favorite characters due to his hilarity and somewhat cool name, and his love of the ladies and sweet jutsu, I am just being realistic. We all love Jiraiya, and hate Sasuke. Jiraiya lost to Pain fair and square, and many of us are still debating whether Naruto and Pain was a fair fight. We'd love to see Sasuke weak. He's definitely up on the high tier, as is Naruto. Raikage did severely downpower the Sharingan though. Thats a good thing, because those eyes were just getting too damn strong.

We haven't seen Sage of the Six Paths fight. We are just assuming he's strong as hell. Madara belongs up there due to the fact that he is intangible. As far as we know, so long as he keeps that intangibility, he doesnt even need jutsu. He could bite his enemy to death.

 

[Regulus]

Gaara can block Sasuke's enton jutsu without even trying, that weakens Sasuke's MS by 33%

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Gaara can block Sasuke's enton jutsu without even trying, that weakens Sasuke's MS by 33%

True. If you were responding to me though, I'd like to say that Orochimaru doesnt have an absolute defense like that though. He has the three Rashomon Gates, but those are way too big for one, and another thing is that they don't really move. Gaara can manipulate the sand to his liking. Orochimaru hasn't shown a lot of defensive techniques.

 

[Regulus]

True. If you were responding to me though, I'd like to say that Orochimaru doesnt have an absolute defense like that though. He has the three Rashomon Gates, but those are way too big for one, and another thing is that they don't really move. Gaara can manipulate the sand to his liking. Orochimaru hasn't shown a lot of defensive techniques.

I wasn't really responding to anyone in particular, just statting something, and true Orochimaru would be toast against Amaterasu, In the latest anime after Oro used that little snake to escape Itachi's Amaterasu killed him. That is pretty pathetic to die by the jutsu of a dead guy.

 

[teetooktier]

Okay, one thing we'd have to say is I love how you guys put Naruto below Jiraiya. Fukasaku said that Naruto has surpassed those who came before him, and the Fourth and Jiraiya were behind him in image form when they said that. THIS IS NOT A BIASED VIEW, as Jiraiya was taught by the toads personally, they knew his abilities, and likely knew Minatos as well because he had their contract and the ability to summon them.
This is very different from when Pain was saying "oh if Jiraiya knew my secret he would have won". One thing, Pain was a student of Jiraiya, another thing is that Pain had a sense of honor, and this may have been said out of respect for Jiraiya. The last thing I'd like to point out is that keeping your techniques secret is what you are SUPPOSED to do in a fight. As I have stated in MANY threads before this is that if you sit there and tell your enemy what you are going to do before you do it, of COURSE they would be able to do something about it. Naruto coulda died in his fight with Mizuki if he woulda said "well I'm gonna make a thousand dopplegangers to kick your ass". All Mizuki would have had to do is just stop him from making hand signs with that big ass shuriken. That probably wouldn't have happened, but it had a MUCH higher probability of happening had Naruto not kept his mouth shut (even though he did say he'd return whatever pain Mizuki gave him back a thousand times, Mizuki took it as a royal ass beating that Naruto was threatening him with).

On top of that, if Naruto is stronger than Jiraiya at this point, then he DAMN sure is stronger than Orochimaru. It doesnt matter if he isn't as good as Jiraiya is without Sage Mode. He can USE Sage Mode regardless, and his is better than Jiraiyas. We also havent seen the extent of the Kyuubi-Sage Mode ability. I'm sure that'd be pretty kickass.

Sasuke is also stronger than Orochimaru by this point. Orochimaru is not set up for Susanoo, nor can he really repair from an Amaterasu that burns his full body. His oral B****, and from what we've seen, Sasuke has been seen using it.rebirth techique would be useful, but all Sasuke would have to do is use an Enton to manipulate Amaterasu's flames right back onto him. I mean, Susanoo made Orochimaru its

Though Jiraiya is one of my more favorite characters due to his hilarity and somewhat cool name, and his love of the ladies and sweet jutsu, I am just being realistic. We all love Jiraiya, and hate Sasuke. Jiraiya lost to Pain fair and square, and many of us are still debating whether Naruto and Pain was a fair fight. We'd love to see Sasuke weak. He's definitely up on the high tier, as is Naruto. Raikage did severely downpower the Sharingan though. Thats a good thing, because those eyes were just getting too damn strong.

We haven't seen Sage of the Six Paths fight. We are just assuming he's strong as hell. Madara belongs up there due to the fact that he is intangible. As far as we know, so long as he keeps that intangibility, he doesnt even need jutsu. He could bite his enemy to death.

You're mostly right about Naruto and Jiraiya, but you've messed up a few things.

First, most people misunderstand what Fukasaku was saying about naruto surpassing Jiraiya and the Fourth.

He is NOT saying that in a fight between current Naruto and either of those two, Naruto wins. That's just silly, They're THE FOURTH and JIRAIYA. He was acknowledging the fact that Naruto will surpass both of them, and in some ways already has (made Rasenshuriken which Fourth couldn't finish, has a better mastery of Sage mode than Jiraiya). Jiraiya is still an extremely powerful ninja, and I'm adamant that without Sage mode, Jiraiya is still stronger than Naruto. Plus, as again most poeple like to skate over, Pain DID technically defeat Naruto and could have killed him. So they both lost to Pain.

Anyways, why don't we call them even.

 

[harshit188]

put danzo in the upper tier,u will see..........below are some options
kabuto & tsunade in the middle,
Neji hyuuga in lower

 

[Blizzard589]

Okay, one thing we'd have to say is I love how you guys put Naruto below Jiraiya. Fukasaku said that Naruto has surpassed those who came before him, and the Fourth and Jiraiya were behind him in image form when they said that. THIS IS NOT A BIASED VIEW, as Jiraiya was taught by the toads personally, they knew his abilities, and likely knew Minatos as well because he had their contract and the ability to summon them.
This is very different from when Pain was saying "oh if Jiraiya knew my secret he would have won". One thing, Pain was a student of Jiraiya, another thing is that Pain had a sense of honor, and this may have been said out of respect for Jiraiya. The last thing I'd like to point out is that keeping your techniques secret is what you are SUPPOSED to do in a fight. As I have stated in MANY threads before this is that if you sit there and tell your enemy what you are going to do before you do it, of COURSE they would be able to do something about it. Naruto coulda died in his fight with Mizuki if he woulda said "well I'm gonna make a thousand dopplegangers to kick your ass". All Mizuki would have had to do is just stop him from making hand signs with that big ass shuriken. That probably wouldn't have happened, but it had a MUCH higher probability of happening had Naruto not kept his mouth shut (even though he did say he'd return whatever pain Mizuki gave him back a thousand times, Mizuki took it as a royal ass beating that Naruto was threatening him with).

On top of that, if Naruto is stronger than Jiraiya at this point, then he DAMN sure is stronger than Orochimaru. It doesnt matter if he isn't as good as Jiraiya is without Sage Mode. He can USE Sage Mode regardless, and his is better than Jiraiyas. We also havent seen the extent of the Kyuubi-Sage Mode ability. I'm sure that'd be pretty kickass.

Sasuke is also stronger than Orochimaru by this point. Orochimaru is not set up for Susanoo, nor can he really repair from an Amaterasu that burns his full body. His oral rebirth techique would be useful, but all Sasuke would have to do is use an Enton to manipulate Amaterasu's flames right back onto him. I mean, Susanoo made Orochimaru its B****, and from what we've seen, Sasuke has been seen using it.

Though Jiraiya is one of my more favorite characters due to his hilarity and somewhat cool name, and his love of the ladies and sweet jutsu, I am just being realistic. We all love Jiraiya, and hate Sasuke. Jiraiya lost to Pain fair and square, and many of us are still debating whether Naruto and Pain was a fair fight. We'd love to see Sasuke weak. He's definitely up on the high tier, as is Naruto. Raikage did severely downpower the Sharingan though. Thats a good thing, because those eyes were just getting too damn strong.

We haven't seen Sage of the Six Paths fight. We are just assuming he's strong as hell. Madara belongs up there due to the fact that he is intangible. As far as we know, so long as he keeps that intangibility, he doesnt even need jutsu. He could bite his enemy to death.

Remember the whole ninja tool thing? A tool is only as good as the ninja who wields it. Sharingan is a tool and Sasuke proved his regular Sharingan could beat Itachi's better MS. Sage Mode is also a tool and just because Naruto's is better doesn't mean he has the power to beat Jiraiya. If Naruto and Jiraiya fought, Jiraiya would be the one with the elder toads on his shoulders. Naruto would get trapped easily in the genjutsu.

Fukasaku meant Naruto surpassed Jiraiya in Sage Mode, not in being a better shinobi. Naruto also doesn't have the experience or other useful abilities that Jiraiya has to measure up to him as a ninja. Jiraiya had his stealthy hiding in shadows and hiding in toads. Jiraiya could spit oil and fire, could turn places into swamps or inescapable toad bellies. Naruto can't do anything like that yet. Naruto still has to master wind nature and the Kyuubi and find a way to stay in sage mode longer before he's up at the top of the top.

Orochimaru lost to a much greater Susanoo than what Sasuke has. His Yamata no Orochi or whatever it is could smash Sasuke's little Susanoo to pieces since there's no Yatta mirror to protect him. Oro also had plenty of summons and things he could use to block Amaterasu.

 

[twistedlink]

Remember the whole ninja tool thing? A tool is only as good as the ninja who wields it. Sharingan is a tool and Sasuke proved his regular Sharingan could beat Itachi's better MS

grossly misunderstood concept of what zetsu said.

What zetsu said is generally true, however we must take into account that Itachi LET sasuke win, and sasuke beating his MS was all part of the act.

 

[Blizzard589]

grossly misunderstood concept of what zetsu said.

What zetsu said is generally true, however we must take into account that Itachi LET sasuke win, and sasuke beating his MS was all part of the act.

Itachi may have let Sasuke win but Itachi was still fighting. That was a real Tsukuyomi and Sasuke broke out of it.

And how is it grossly misunderstood? I just repeated what Zetsu said... And then you go and say it is generally true. You are confused good sir.

 

[Blizzard589]

Anyone? Anything to add? We haven't settled on anything yet.

Hopefully by next week we'll be better able to place Danzo and Madara.

 

[Steinbiz]

Remember the whole ninja tool thing? A tool is only as good as the ninja who wields it. Sharingan is a tool and Sasuke proved his regular Sharingan could beat Itachi's better MS. Sage Mode is also a tool and just because Naruto's is better doesn't mean he has the power to beat Jiraiya. If Naruto and Jiraiya fought, Jiraiya would be the one with the elder toads on his shoulders. Naruto would get trapped easily in the genjutsu.

Fukasaku meant Naruto surpassed Jiraiya in Sage Mode, not in being a better shinobi. Naruto also doesn't have the experience or other useful abilities that Jiraiya has to measure up to him as a ninja. Jiraiya had his stealthy hiding in shadows and hiding in toads. Jiraiya could spit oil and fire, could turn places into swamps or inescapable toad bellies. Naruto can't do anything like that yet. Naruto still has to master wind nature and the Kyuubi and find a way to stay in sage mode longer before he's up at the top of the top.

Orochimaru lost to a much greater Susanoo than what Sasuke has. His Yamata no Orochi or whatever it is could smash Sasuke's little Susanoo to pieces since there's no Yatta mirror to protect him. Oro also had plenty of summons and things he could use to block Amaterasu.

for once I agree with everything you just said 100%. fukasaku said naruto surpassed those who came before him. but he really meant that naruto's sage mode has been mastered more than jiraiya's and with minato he meant the rasenshuriken.

Also I believe that without yatas mirror and totsuka's sword Sasuke would lose to Orochimaru(MAYBE). because we know orochimaru can escape amaterasu, not sure about tsukuyomi, but susano'o without the legendary items makes it A LOT more vulnerable.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Wow there are a lot of interesting opinions. No one seems to agree on anything lol... Well here are my responses to some things:



Hashirama only beat Madara because of the tailed beasts in his possession. If fighting on his own he would not have survived. Thats why I'm pretty sure he died because he gave away all the bijuu to the great ninja villages and wasn't as strong. We saw him and his brother beaten by an old decrepit Sarutobi. And Sarutobi was said to be much better in his prime as Enma (his monkey summon) and the ANBU dudes watching the battle (if I remember correctly) said he was pathetic and his chakra levels weren't nearly as high. So Hashirama fighting beside the bijuu doesnt really count as his strength.



Ok, it was a much smaller version that the nine tails broke out of. Naruto had no part in the breaking out. And it didn't seal the Juubi, it sealed the Juubi's corpse after the life force was sealed into Sot6P. Naruto may be the most powerful ninja but he has a serious lack of experience to be put into the top tier. Naruto beat Pain because Pain wasn't trying to kill him and Pain had no secrets left and once a ninja loses his secrets he is automatically at a disadvantage. Hinata/Kyuubi interference helped as well. In a fair fight with no outside help and Nagato at full power, Pain would own. Naruto would also lose to Itachi, Kisamehada, Killerbee, Minato, and several others thus he is not top 5. Sorry.

Naruto would lose to Kisame? Not true, Kisame uses his opponents Chakra. All Naruto would have to do is let him suck up the sage mode chakra, and Kisame would be a frog...I mean not that he would change much.
On top of that, I seriously doubt that Pain didn't know ANYTHING about Naruto. Zetsu tended to corpses that Naruto left behind, and on top of that, Pain says "Deidara was right, you can't be reasoned with". That would stand to show that Deidara gave info about Naruto to Akatsuki, especially because he told Pain something as insignificant as Narutos behavior. Killerbee's eight tailed form could still get cut up pretty badly with the FRS. Itachi would win only because of Susanoo.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Remember the whole ninja tool thing? A tool is only as good as the ninja who wields it. Sharingan is a tool and Sasuke proved his regular Sharingan could beat Itachi's better MS. Sage Mode is also a tool and just because Naruto's is better doesn't mean he has the power to beat Jiraiya. If Naruto and Jiraiya fought, Jiraiya would be the one with the elder toads on his shoulders. Naruto would get trapped easily in the genjutsu.

Fukasaku meant Naruto surpassed Jiraiya in Sage Mode, not in being a better shinobi. Naruto also doesn't have the experience or other useful abilities that Jiraiya has to measure up to him as a ninja. Jiraiya had his stealthy hiding in shadows and hiding in toads. Jiraiya could spit oil and fire, could turn places into swamps or inescapable toad bellies. Naruto can't do anything like that yet. Naruto still has to master wind nature and the Kyuubi and find a way to stay in sage mode longer before he's up at the top of the top.

Orochimaru lost to a much greater Susanoo than what Sasuke has. His Yamata no Orochi or whatever it is could smash Sasuke's little Susanoo to pieces since there's no Yatta mirror to protect him. Oro also had plenty of summons and things he could use to block Amaterasu.

Oh... Well I'd like to see this chapter that Fukasaku said he surpassed him in Sage Mode, not in being a Shinobi. As far as we know, Minato wasn't a sage and he was also in that image. So are you going to tell me now that Naruto surpassed Minato in sage mode? Because thats a given. Naruto has mastered the wind element. Just because he can't do it without clones doesn't mean the attack doesnt come out regardless.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

for once I agree with everything you just said 100%. fukasaku said naruto surpassed those who came before him. but he really meant that naruto's sage mode has been mastered more than jiraiya's and with minato he meant the rasenshuriken.

Also I believe that without yatas mirror and totsuka's sword Sasuke would lose to Orochimaru(MAYBE). because we know orochimaru can escape amaterasu, not sure about tsukuyomi, but susano'o without the legendary items makes it A LOT more vulnerable.

Thats actually BS... Fukasaku had no idea that Naruto could use FRS until his fight with Pain, and he used it after Fukasaku said that. He asked Shima if she taught him that. Or she asked him. Naruto surpassed Jiraiya and Minato. Its time people got over it as the teacher of one of them and a possible friend of the other has said so.

 

[Blizzard589]

Naruto would lose to Kisame? Not true, Kisame uses his opponents Chakra. All Naruto would have to do is let him suck up the sage mode chakra, and Kisame would be a frog...I mean not that he would change much.
On top of that, I seriously doubt that Pain didn't know ANYTHING about Naruto. Zetsu tended to corpses that Naruto left behind, and on top of that, Pain says "Deidara was right, you can't be reasoned with". That would stand to show that Deidara gave info about Naruto to Akatsuki, especially because he told Pain something as insignificant as Narutos behavior. Killerbee's eight tailed form could still get cut up pretty badly with the FRS. Itachi would win only because of Susanoo.

We don't know that for sure. Maybe Samehada would be able to filter out the sage chakra. To me, Kisame's abilities are greater and on a larger scale than Naruto's right now. Samehada could absorb FRS easily and Kisame's giant water prison would easily finish Naruto off. Naruto might not even get a chance to use sage mode because of his current limitations.

Pain knew about Naruto's unreasonableness and stuff but he didn't know about Naruto's sage mode, Naruto's frog katas, or Naruto's FRS, and he was surprised by the destructive potential of the Kyuubi when is almost broke loose. Naruto, however knew the exact interval of Pain's strongest body's power regeneration and all the powers of most of the other bodies as well. The knowledge isn't comparable. Deidara told Pain the same thing Itachi told Deidara probably "in a fight he'll be the first one to shout and charge you" or something like that. We can't assume he told him anything other than what Pain said he told him.

 

[Blizzard589]

Oh... Well I'd like to see this chapter that Fukasaku said he surpassed him in Sage Mode, not in being a Shinobi. As far as we know, Minato wasn't a sage and he was also in that image. So are you going to tell me now that Naruto surpassed Minato in sage mode? Because thats a given. Naruto has mastered the wind element. Just because he can't do it without clones doesn't mean the attack doesnt come out regardless.

Ok maybe they thought he surpassed them completely but it was most likely that they were just awed by the epicness of Naruto's entrance into the fight and how he had made so much progress in so short a time. Also, Fukasaku said Naruto surpassed those that came before him and while we can't know for sure, I'm still gonna believe that he meant in sage mode because he really didn't know any of Naruto's other abilities (as evidenced by his surprise at FRS). Tsunade was the one that saw Minato and Jiraiya in him because Minato was his father and she saw the resemblance and Jiraiya was his teacher and she was thinking about him because of his recent demise. Fukasaku most likely wasn't even thinking about Minato.

We can't know for sure but I'm gonna stick with my belief until I find enough evidence in the manga to say otherwise... Naruto still has not surpassed either Jiraiya or Minato. Both of them have the killer instinct that Naruto lacks. Can you really see Naruto surviving against Minato's Hiraishin no jutsu? Do you see Naruto escaping the elder toad song genjutsu while they are on Jiraiya's shoulders? Not at all. Maybe if he learns a way to enter and sustain sage mode easier then he'll surpass Jiraiya. But not until he gains some more control over the fox does he surpass Minato.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

We don't know that for sure. Maybe Samehada would be able to filter out the sage chakra. To me, Kisame's abilities are greater and on a larger scale than Naruto's right now. Samehada could absorb FRS easily and Kisame's giant water prison would easily finish Naruto off. Naruto might not even get a chance to use sage mode because of his current limitations.

Pain knew about Naruto's unreasonableness and stuff but he didn't know about Naruto's sage mode, Naruto's frog katas, or Naruto's FRS, and he was surprised by the destructive potential of the Kyuubi when is almost broke loose. Naruto, however knew the exact interval of Pain's strongest body's power regeneration and all the powers of most of the other bodies as well. The knowledge isn't comparable. Deidara told Pain the same thing Itachi told Deidara probably "in a fight he'll be the first one to shout and charge you" or something like that. We can't assume he told him anything other than what Pain said he told him.

Naruto didn't know about Chibaku Tensei, nor did he know about the King of Hell, he didn't know Pain could control others with his chakra, he also didn't know that the Preta path could steal someones energy. Naruto learned Sage Jutsu, but he had almost the exact same abilities minus the frog katas. We also cannot assume that Pain had no knowledge about Naruto. I mean they seemed to know an awful lot about him...

 

[Blizzard589]

Naruto didn't know about Chibaku Tensei, nor did he know about the King of Hell, he didn't know Pain could control others with his chakra, he also didn't know that the Preta path could steal someones energy. Naruto learned Sage Jutsu, but he had almost the exact same abilities minus the frog katas. We also cannot assume that Pain had no knowledge about Naruto. I mean they seemed to know an awful lot about him...

I never said he knew everything but he knew an aweful lot more than Jiraiya or anyone else because the slug compiled all the info for him.

Lets put this in list form:
Naruto knew:
1) 6 bodies
2) The real one wasn't with them
3) Preta path absorbs ninjutsu (which is close enough to absorbing straight chakra so if you're smart enough you can make the connection)
4) Deva path repelled or attracted everything
5) Deva path has a 5 second interval between uses of his powers
6) Deva path needs longer to recover after using larger version of his powers

Naruto didn't know:
1) Chibaku Tensei
2) King of Hell
3) Chakra controlling rods

Pain knew:
1) Naruto gets angry easily and is "unreasonable"
2) Naruto uses brute force and close range fighting (maybe)
3) Naruto trained under Jiraiya

Pain didn't know:
1) Sage Mode (very major thing, giant speed, strength, and chakra boost)
2) effects of natural energy
3) frog katas
4) FRS
5) extent of Kyuubi's destructive potential
6) Naruto's resolve

Naruto had a clear advantage the whole fight. If he didn't know about Preta's absorption he would have wasted an FRS right there to find out and would've started out much lower on energy. If they knew nothing of each other Pain would've wtfpwned Naruto.

Pain was weakened after his assault on the village. He used a crap load of power making that crater and Deva Path's abilities were gone for like the first half of the fight. Deva would've protected the 3 other bodies that died before he got his powers back with his Shinra Tensei. If they were both fresh Pain would've wtfpwned Naruto as Naruto would not have landed a single FRS due to Deva's rejection powers.

Pain wasn't trying to kill Naruto because he had to capture him so if this was an all out fight to the death (the only true way to measure two ninja against each other) Pain would've stabbed Naruto through the face when he Bansho Tennined his ass and had a black chakra blade sticking out waiting for him. With that move Pain can pretty much one hit ko anyone without an ultimate defense sort of thing. If Pain was trying to kill Naruto from the start he would've wtfpwned him.

Anything else you wanna argue? Or do you finally agree with the other posts I made?

 

[Valkyria]

Naruto didn't know about Chibaku Tensei, nor did he know about the King of Hell, he didn't know Pain could control others with his chakra, he also didn't know that the Preta path could steal someones energy. Naruto learned Sage Jutsu, but he had almost the exact same abilities minus the frog katas. We also cannot assume that Pain had no knowledge about Naruto. I mean they seemed to know an awful lot about him...

Chibaku Tensei was used whilst Naruto wasn't in control, King of Hell wasn't used in actual battle and Naruto was told of Pain ability to revive fallen bodies, he was told the pain bodies were being controlled and that part didn't come up till all the Pain bodies were already down and Naruto knew Preta could absorb chakra but I guess he didn't make the deduction that he could force chakra out of an individual. Pain might have known of Naruto's Rasengans and Kagebushins but those abilities were displayed almost at the start of the battle when he used them to take out the summons. I could point out the reasons again why Nagato/Pain is stronger but I'd sound like a broken record.

 

[Toad Sage]

Somewhat screwed up no offense. Orochimaru and Jiraiya are better than many of those people you put above them.