[Discussion] Kage Level Ranking

[John Constantine]

He told Kisame that with both of them together, they might be able to sqeeze out a draw against Jiraiya. While that's probably not true, that is still how he felt and he was most likely, with his Sharingan, a fairly good judge of ability.

LOL

 

[almasyan]

How does Orochimaru have the DNA of all these ppl? Rasenshuriken can be blocked just like the Kyuubi destruction beam that he blocked with the Rashomon. I'm not saying it is easy to kill Orochimaru but remember Itachi was afraid of Jiraiya but he wasn't at all of Orochimaru. He also proved his superiority to Oro by taking him down easily with Susanoo and the Totsuka while Oro was using his strongest technique (the Yamata no Orochi or w/e). I don't think the Fourth actually fought Madara because he made it seem (when he was telling Naruto) like Madara was just hiding off in the woods somewhere controlling Kyuubi not actually fighting.

Having the DNA of the most strongest ninjas is my speculation.But he does has the DNA of the three hokages.As i can see u really like Forth hokage, and send him to the top list.The thing that Oroch can reanimate such a person and make him fight by his side doesn't make him a top one too?
may be i just don't understand smth but it's kinda strange logik for me^^

 

[John Constantine]

Having the DNA of the most strongest ninjas is my speculation.But he does has the DNA of the three hokages.As i can see u really like Forth hokage, and send him to the top list.The thing that Oroch can reanimate such a person and make him fight by his side doesn't make him a top one too?
may be i just don't understand smth but it's kinda strange logik for me^^

I'm guessing those two reanimations by Orochimaru of the first 2 Hokages weren't nearly as powerful as the real ones in the past.
They were easily manhandled by a dying old Hiruzen Sarutobi.​

 

[Blizzard589]

LOL

Ok maybe it wasn't Itachi that said it but he didn't disagree:

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LOL at yourself.

Kisame is obviously referring to Jiraiya being a match for himself and Itachi.

And the weakness is Jiraiya's love for the ladies.

 

[John Constantine]

Ok maybe it wasn't Itachi that said it but he didn't disagree:

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LOL at yourself.

Kisame is obviously referring to Jiraiya being a match for himself and Itachi.

And the weakness is Jiraiya's love for the ladies.

All Kisame Hoshigaki says is that Jiraiya could be a match for either of them and giving him his due respect..

1) I don't think Kisame Hoshigaki was refering against the two of them together. You must pay attention of reading between the lines.

2) All Itachi Uchiha did was appearing on town to be noted he was still around and well alive.. To remember the elders about their deal as message.

3) He could have easily killed Kakashi Hatake and all the others like Gai and Asuma as well but he was not there to fight.

4) They had enough time to abduct Naruto Uzumaki but Itachi Uchiha was not there for it and he would never kill such an important guy for Konoha like Jiraiya. Since Itachi Uchiha always loved Konoha in the first place.​

 

[Blizzard589]

Okay, so Naruto was trying to kill Pain? Oh I forget, Naruto always kills his opponents. Naruto ALWAYS kills, I mean look at the "Itachi" guy he used Oodama Rasengan on under the Kyuubi influence. He even said "I won't kill you", to the main Pain. Naruto had to keep track of 6 separate bodies. On top of that, Ninjutsu is made from chakra, and it is external. Chakra is kept internally. Oh yes, I forgot, Pain got behind JIRAIYA and absorbed his chakra, and then JIRAIYA wrote that on Fukasakus back... So theres another advantage.

1. Pain already fought against Sage Mode Jiraiya, took him out even though Jiraiya had Shima and Fukasaku on his shoulders. Naruto didn't, thought of some spur of the moment plan. I am sure that fighting someone in Sage Mode would alert you to what it can do. Pain faced it with Jiraiya, then faced it with Naruto.
2. The extent of Kyuubis destructional potential? Sakura probably knew that before she saw Narutos Kyuubi transformation. Everyone whose a ninja in the Naruto Universe already knows that the Kyuubi is the strongest of the beasts.
3. Narutos resolve isn't a fighting technique. That only came in handy after the fighting had stopped.
4. Naruto had been training right before he fought Pain. Pain was kickin it with the baddies right before he went to Konoha.

There is one more thing I'd like to argue...
PC or Mac?

Idk what you're talking about with the Jiraiya getting his chakra sucked... Naruto was fighting to kill Pain whereas if Pain was fighting to kill Naruto he would've killed him when Naruto was pinned down. Why can't you understand that simple fact?

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Look at Pain's face. I don't give half a crap about Sakura. Pain is like wtf is this? He thought that level of Chibaku Tensei would be enough to seal Naruto and transport him for Kyuubi extraction.

Remember Fukasaku said using Sage mode helps you feel replenished? I'm sure Naruto was alright before he got reverse summoned. Pain however was not as you can see in all my other posts about it. I don't understand why you keep bringing this up, Pain was handicapped severely.

This is getting old, my friend. We keep going back and forth. I am not saying Naruto is weak. Naruto has had his feats of awesomeness and as a Sage he's no joke but he was up against one of the strongest characters in the Narutoverse and he somehow won only through divine assistance, Konoha assistance, Fukasaku/Shima assistance, Gama- Bunta/Ken/Hiro assistance, Kyuubi assistance, Katsuyu assistance, and Fourth Hokage assistance.

Come on, you must believe that in a fair fight, where no one is allowed to prep and no one knows about each others abilities, and everyone starts the fight fresh, Pain whoops just about everyones ass.

Edit: Lol... I don't know anything about Macs other than they've been hella confusing when I sit down at one so it's PC for me.

 

[Blizzard589]

All Kisame Hoshigaki says is that Jiraiya could be a match for either of them and giving him his due respect..

1) I don't think Kisame Hoshigaki was refering against the two of them together. You must pay attention of reading between the lines.

2) All Itachi Uchiha did was appearing on town to be noted he was still around and well alive.. To remember the elders about their deal as message.

3) He could have easily killed Kakashi Hatake and all the others like Gai and Asuma as well but he was not there to fight.

4) They had enough time to abduct Naruto Uzumaki but Itachi Uchiha was not there for it and he would never kill such an important guy for Konoha like Jiraiya. Since Itachi Uchiha always loved Konoha in the first place.​

1) You may not think so but I do. He said both of them with an 'and' between them. He didn't say 'or'.

2) This has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

3) This also has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

4) Itachi did love Konoha and peace. This is true.

I'm not trying to make this an Itachi vs Jiraiya thing, I only brought that up because I'm trying to show that Jiraiya is stronger than Orochimaru. I do have Itachi in god tier and Jiraiya in upper tier.

 

[John Constantine]

1) You may not think so but I do. He said both of them with an 'and' between them. He didn't say 'or'.

2) This has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

3) This also has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

4) Itachi did love Konoha and peace. This is true.

I'm not trying to make this an Itachi vs Jiraiya thing, I only brought that up because I'm trying to show that Jiraiya is stronger than Orochimaru. I do have Itachi in god tier and Jiraiya in upper tier.

I also don't know about Jiraiya being stronger then Orochimaru..Let's make an analysis:

Jiraiya says that Orochimaru had the same power as himself.

They draw in their fight.

Orochimaru goes toe to toe with the 4-tails Kyubi..Jiraiya gets one atack by the 3-tails kyubi (??) and almost dies..

Orochimaru defeats a Kazikage and the 3rd Hokage..Jiraiya defeats some of Pein's bodies and is respected by Kisame and Itachi Uchiha. On the otherhand Orochimaru was easily defeated by Itachi Uchiha.

Hard to tell who of the two was the strongest..​

 

[Blizzard589]

Having the DNA of the most strongest ninjas is my speculation.But he does has the DNA of the three hokages.As i can see u really like Forth hokage, and send him to the top list.The thing that Oroch can reanimate such a person and make him fight by his side doesn't make him a top one too?
may be i just don't understand smth but it's kinda strange logik for me^^

Well first off I don't think his reanimations were as strong as they were in real life. As was stated earlier, Hashirama and Tobirama seemed weak in action but were regarded as the greatest ninja of their time. Also, look at the people in the top. Even with his Edo Tensei summoning the Hokages, he isn't beating Pain or Itachi. Sarutobi almost proved himself as an old fart and if he was in his prime he would've owned. Minato would hold his own as well. The Senju bros I'm not so sure about but w/e I think I made my point.

 

[John Constantine]

Well first off I don't think his reanimations were as strong as they were in real life. As was stated earlier, Hashirama and Tobirama seemed weak in action but were regarded as the greatest ninja of their time. Also, look at the people in the top. Even with his Edo Tensei summoning the Hokages, he isn't beating Pain or Itachi. Sarutobi almost proved himself as an old fart and if he was in his prime he would've owned. Minato would hold his own as well. The Senju bros I'm not so sure about but w/e I think I made my point.

There's no way to tell about Minato as we never really saw him in action..​

 

[Blizzard589]

I also don't know about Jiraiya being stronger then Orochimaru..Let's make an analysis:

Jiraiya says that Orochimaru had the same power as himself.

They draw in their fight.

Orochimaru goes toe to toe with the 4-tails Kyubi..Jiraiya gets one atack by the 3-tails kyubi (??) and almost dies..

Orochimaru defeats a Kazikage and the 3rd Hokage..Jiraiya defeats some of Pein's bodies and is respected by Kisame and Itachi Uchiha. On the otherhand Orochimaru was easily defeated by Itachi Uchiha.

Hard to tell who of the two was the strongest..​

Hmm yeah it would be tough. But in their draw I doubt Jiraiya used Sennin mode against Oro because he was trying to bring him back to the village, not kill him.

Oh and it was the 4-tail Kyuubi Jiraiya fought also. We don't know how many hits it took or what kind of action took place before he was on the ground dying but Jiraiya isn't the one who spent all his time learning resurrection techs and oral rebirth jutsu so even after Oro took several death blows he just rebirthed himself. And then he ran away.

Fukasaku and Shima on Jiraiya's shoulders doing a sage tech frog song sounds like ownage of Oro to me.

 

[John Constantine]

Hmm yeah it would be tough. But in their draw I doubt Jiraiya used Sennin mode against Oro because he was trying to bring him back to the village, not kill him.

Oh and it was the 4-tail Kyuubi Jiraiya fought also. We don't know how many hits it took or what kind of action took place before he was on the ground dying but Jiraiya isn't the one who spent all his time learning resurrection techs and oral rebirth jutsu so even after Oro took several death blows he just rebirthed himself. And then he ran away.

Fukasaku and Shima on Jiraiya's shoulders doing a sage tech frog song sounds like ownage of Oro to me.

Well,resurrection techs and oral rebirth jutsu do make part of Orochimaru's arsenal. So it's only natural that he takes the best out of it.

If i recall correctly Orochimaru gave Kyubi 4-tails a big ass blow with a huge ass sword and the Kyubi just stood still while Orochimaru decided it was useless to keep fighting.

That fight was actually quite useless,Orochimaru didn't want to Kill the Kyubi as he wanted Naruto and his mates to take down as much Akatsuki members as they could. Also we have to take in mind Orochimaru was fighting in a weak state and his body was already rejecting him.​

In Jiraiya's defense,he was not expecting such a huge blow from the Kyubi (it was only one)..​

 

[Blizzard589]

Well,resurrection techs and oral rebirth jutsu do make part of Orochimaru's arsenal. So it's only natural that he takes the best out of it.

If i recall correctly Orochimaru gave Kyubi 4-tails a big ass blow with a huge ass sword and the Kyubi just stood still while Orochimaru decided it was useless to keep fighting.

That fight was actually quite useless,Orochimaru didn't want to Kill the Kyubi as he wanted Naruto and his mates to take down as much Akatsuki members as they could. Also we have to take in mind Orochimaru was fighting in a weak state and his body was already rejecting him.​

In Jiraiya's defense,he was not expecting such a huge blow from the Kyubi (it was only one)..​

Yeah Oro has a ridiculous arsenal but half the time he's either getting used to a new body or being rejected by an old one. And it wasn't much of a blow, 4-tail kyuubi just brushed it aside after a little bit of being pinned. I agree though it was a useless fight but it was cool to see the 4-tail cloak for the first time in action.

Where did you see it was only one? It may have been one blow that connected but I'm sure there was some scuffling and moving around with Jiraiya probably dodging and trying to calm Naruto down.

 

[almasyan]

I'm guessing those two reanimations by Orochimaru of the first 2 Hokages weren't nearly as powerful as the real ones in the past.
They were easily manhandled by a dying old Hiruzen Sarutobi.​

Have u actually seen their fight in the manga not in the anime?there wasn't much of fighting.they all used several jutsus,Hokages were ragdolling him and Sarutobi couldn't do anything about them together witn Enma and immedeatly resorted to the Yondaime's secret jutsu.U know i call this cheatingeven 9 tails was defeated by this very jutsu.
BTW sometimes i hear such a bullshit that orochimaru was the weakest of all akatsuki, sorry dudes but i think it's retarded.i would put him forth strongest in akatsuki after madara,pain,itachi.

anyways i think we won't agree.but i'll save my opinion for me.

 

[Blizzard589]

Have u actually seen their fight in the manga not in the anime?there wasn't much of fighting.they all used several jutsus,Hokages were ragdolling him and Sarutobi couldn't do anything about them together witn Enma and immedeatly resorted to the Yondaime's secret jutsu.U know i call this cheatingeven 9 tails was defeated by this very jutsu.
BTW sometimes i hear such a bullshit that orochimaru was the weakest of all akatsuki, sorry dudes but i think it's retarded.i would put him forth strongest in akatsuki after madara,pain,itachi.

anyways i think we won't agree.but i'll save my opinion for me.

I agree that Oro was 4th strongest in Akatsuki for sure with Kisame right behind him but I still would'nt put him in the God tier with Pain and Itachi and Madara because they are on a diffent level IMO.

 

[John Constantine]

Have u actually seen their fight in the manga not in the anime?there wasn't much of fighting.they all used several jutsus,Hokages were ragdolling him and Sarutobi couldn't do anything about them together witn Enma and immedeatly resorted to the Yondaime's secret jutsu.U know i call this cheatingeven 9 tails was defeated by this very jutsu.
BTW sometimes i hear such a bullshit that orochimaru was the weakest of all akatsuki, sorry dudes but i think it's retarded.i would put him forth strongest in akatsuki after madara,pain,itachi.

anyways i think we won't agree.but i'll save my opinion for me.

I was going actually by the fight in the anime.
Anyways,i do agree Orochimaru was one of the strongest in Akatsuki.
He was very well respected worldwide,he was definetly on par with Sasori of the red sand & Kakuzu & Kisame Hoshigaki and off course weaker then Pein and Itachi Uchiha.
Still stronger then Deidara,Konan,Hidan..​

 

[Missing Uchiha]

? am confused

 

[Konoha Rokudaime]

? am confused

Boy, reread the manga 5 times. Watch the anime again(i advise you to skip fillers). Then, i hope your confusion will be removed.

 

[kazeshini]

i read to the top half of page 2 and thought id comment.

Put in a 1v1 pain would be screwed against certain enemies

Deva path would have lost against kakashi if Asura path didn't intervene.

Animal Path would lose to anyone with summoning skills equal with high taijutsu skills.

Preta Path would easily lose to people that use physical attacks i.e. kiba, neji, lee etc.

Human Path cant really pull someones soul out of their body if its not there, something anyone of the yamanaka clan is capable of accomplishing.

Asura Path undoubtedly the weakest of the six paths someone with high speed to dodge his projectiles such as Gai can handle him plus Gai would probably destry him with one punch.

Naraka Path got his ass kicked by konohamaru, nuff said.

 

[uzamaki2223]

If Jiraiya had known about Pain's secret he would have most like won as you said, even Pain admitted to this. You have to remember that Naruto came in after Pain had already used a tremendous amount of chakra and taken out numerous top level shinobi. On top of that Naruto had prepared for the battle by keeping two sage mode shadow clones back with the toads. Under normal circumstances he wouldn't have been able to do this. Even after this he had Naruto pinned down with chakra sticks rendering Naruto helpless. Only after interference from Hinata did Naruto escape that situation. Even still after the entire battle the real Nagato was never defeated. Naruto simply changed his mind so that he became good. Also remember that during the fight Pain had no desire to kill Naruto, he needed Naruto alive in order to extract the bijuu.

Just because Naruto is alive and Nagato is dead right now it doesn't mean that Naruto is stronger than Pain or on the same level. There are various reasons you can say Naruto is as strong as Pain.

i understand what u mean but it is impossible to say that one could beat the other "if" because an arguement can also be made for naruto not being at full strength when he fought either. Let me elaborate a little.

"if" u count the fox as part of naruto's power then u probably kno that he hasn't, as of yet, been able to control the fox or its power therefore his inability to b @ "full power" when he fought Pain. Now taking that into account, i think that it would b a completely different story "if" Naruto and Nagato fought again. i also think that, and this is all speculation, that naruto gained a deeper understanding of his sage powers throughout the Kage Summit Arc, seen when he was meditating ontop of the roof.