I fully agree with Obito and Madara's Plan

[FlyingRaijinLVL2]

Tbh it does make sense. I agree.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

I don't know how world peace can be achieved but this wouldn't be the right solution, it's morally unacceptable.

Because it can't be achieved.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

It actually very hard to convince him

But let just tried anything we can

It's hard to convince me because you haven't proven me wrong, I don't care for free will, I prefer happiness, and most people don't know what's best for them.

 

[Rokudaime Hokage Naruto]

Free will? In a world where dictatorship and the government control what we do, how we do it and when to do it? If we had a world of free will there would be murderers everywhere and thiefs. Freedom is nothing but a lie.

Freedom doesn't mean being able to do what you want. I'd get into a philosophical debate with you regarding freedom but I can't be arsed. Go read John Stuart Mill - On Liberty if you are really that interested.

 

[Luamek]

i agree as well, for all you dumbasses who want to live a shitty life, go ahead..you only have one so you might wanna enjoy it in paradise

 

[Gyakusetsu]

What if my dream is to ensure others never achieve their dreams?

 

[Sageof7Path]

Know what, who even cares if it's real? What difference does that make? Besides which, the plan was to revive everyone that died anyway, and besides, not everyone would hate the plan, you have people like me that would desire it.

Why do you keep ignoring things I post? Well look at this thread there are people who do care if it's real or fake... Do you understand how selfish you sound right now. Yeah people like you who desire it... And what about the people who don't??? You need to stop thinking the world is about you or only people like you because it's not.

And just because Madara planned I revive the people who were killed during that time span which he did not (Neji rin nagatos parents and countless other people that remained dead when he castes the moons eye plan.) does that make killing people any better because you're going to revive them? NO! You spun like an absolute but job I understand that your life may be tough but you've got to understand one thing. The world won't curve to your needs. There are people out there who start charities organizations groups to gel handicapped people or people with special needs. Hell even the government provides people with financial compensation when needed. There are people who travel across the world to build buildings an feed people in need from less developed countries... Do you think people like that want to end up in IT??? People who are trying o do something REAL to make the world a better place? They don't think it's necessary to slaughter innocent people to achieve a certain goal... If you can only see darkness and hurt in the world then I can see why you're depressed. Just remember everything is not about you if you want to go to dream land then that's your choice but why force everyone else?

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Freedom doesn't mean being able to do what you want. I'd get into a philosophical debate with you regarding freedom but I can't be arsed. Go read John Stuart Mill - On Liberty if you are really that interested.

Then what is freedom, because that sounds like the inverse of freedom, what you said.

 

[Sageof7Path]

It's hard to convince me because you haven't proven me wrong, I don't care for free will, I prefer happiness, and most people don't know what's best for them.

Everyone has maxes points that you refuse to acknowledge or respond to everyone's proven you wrong you just won't accept the fact that you're being mellow dramatic.

 

[jimbobbity]

Freedom doesn't mean being able to do what you want. I'd get into a philosophical debate with you regarding freedom but I can't be arsed. Go read John Stuart Mill - On Liberty if you are really that interested.

I know what you mean, but i didnt mean it in terms of doing what we want either. Freedon means to be able to live life the way you wanna live it within reason and not be bound those who wanna shackle you, like what happened during the slave trade era or the holocaust. My point is that we are forced to live life according to the way the government wanr from birth to death. We go to school, get a job then eventually retire. Thats just the way it is. Those who dont do well in school will earn less whole those who do will earn more. Everything is controlled.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Why do you keep ignoring things I post? Well look at this thread there are people who do care if it's real or fake... Do you understand how selfish you sound right now. Yeah people like you who desire it... And what about the people who don't??? You need to stop thinking the world is about you or only people like you because it's not.

And just because Madara planned I revive the people who were killed during that time span which he did not (Neji rin nagatos parents and countless other people that remained dead when he castes the moons eye plan.) does that make killing people any better because you're going to revive them? NO! You spun like an absolute but job I understand that your life may be tough but you've got to understand one thing. The world won't curve to your needs. There are people out there who start charities organizations groups to gel handicapped people or people with special needs. Hell even the government provides people with financial compensation when needed. There are people who travel across the world to build buildings an feed people in need from less developed countries... Do you think people like that want to end up in IT??? People who are trying o do something REAL to make the world a better place? They don't think it's necessary to slaughter innocent people to achieve a certain goal... If you can only see darkness and hurt in the world then I can see why you're depressed. Just remember everything is not about you if you want to go to dream land then that's your choice but why force everyone else?

Why make everyone else? Because there are so many people suffering already in the world (approximately a third of the population), those are just the people in 3rd world countries. Then there are the numerous people in 1st world countries that are miserable because of how awful their lives are. I remember, when I was watching a news report directly after Robin Williams' death, that suicide has actually beaten auto-vehicle accidents in the leading causes of death in the world.

 

[Ansatsuken]

It's hard to convince me because you haven't proven me wrong, I don't care for free will, I prefer happiness, and most people don't know what's best for them.

OK can you control your dream as you control your real body

Do you think that dream will feed you real food to your real body that you need as a vessel of dreaming

How about when your body lost many function when your body lost many nutrition

At the point your brain is damage by lack of nutrition from the body and slowly stop functioning

As you said to me earlier dream is brain activities

What will support your body if you malnutrition and your body become weak, and effect your brain.

The brain will slowly death and you' will die

And other matter is the dream itself, you can't control your brain activities while you sleep,

When you are dreaming, it happen as random.

You unable to choose what kind of dream you want

It happen very random

Don't refer to Naruto because IT is just a fiction and there are no conformation that peoples in IT will get good dream always

It uncontrollable or out of your perception

 

[MAN OF SIN]

You know the god tree could protect them from diseases.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

OK can you control your dream as you control your real body

Do you think that dream will feed you real food to your real body that you need as a vessel of dreaming

How about when your body lost many function when your body lost many nutrition

At the point your brain is damage by lack of nutrition from the body and slowly stop functioning

As you said to me earlier dream is brain activities

What will support your body if you malnutrition and your body become weak, and effect your brain.

The brain will slowly death and you' will die

And other matter is the dream itself, you can't control your brain activities while you sleep,

When you are dreaming, it happen as random.

You unable to choose what kind of dream you want

It happen very random

Don't refer to Naruto because IT is just a fiction and there are no conformation that peoples in IT will get good dream always

It uncontrollable or out of your perception

Lol in the Narutoverse, it's explicitly stated that the Shinju would keep people alive, so, if someone created IT in our world, the same principle would apply.

 

[synkross]

i'm made a thread about this like 2 years ago, so i'm simply gonna copy paste it. some info might be out of date but the theme is same.

-----------------
1st off, by now it is clear that Obito is sincere to his goal and if he gets to complete the plan then he will make everyone's wishes come true......(i don't really trust Madara on this, he might just make himself king or something lolz)

Now, from Obito's prespective he wants to achieve heaven(Dream world) and take everyone to heaven with him.
a world of winners and all, where everyone will be happy.....
Ok, here naruto and others disagreed with him because they said that it will be a fake happiness and not reality cuz true happiness is meaningful only if achieved in real world.

Now, i don't see this logic(maybe i'm wrong) but..how do you define reality?
as Itachi said,'Reality is only what you believe to be true and real'.....you can also say that it's a feeling.
like if you are in a dream....you feel it as the reality untill you wake up, only then you can differentiate between dream and reality, but what if you never wake up?

yes, then that dream will be your reality....e.g that is what was shown in Matrix, if Anderson never knew about it he would just have been living happily in what he considers reality.

i think you get my point, so how can Naruto and the others say it won't be real if they never know and the jutsu ends only in their death. they would just be living happily without knowing that they are in a dream cuz they'll never wake up.

Now, you may say that this happiness won't be real but happiness is only a feeling and has nothing to do with reality.
if they can get that feeling in the dream world for the rest of their lives then what's the problem??
--------------------------------------

 

[Darth Uchiha]

i'm made a thread about his like 2 years ago, so i'm simple gonna copy paste it. some info might be out of date but the theme is same.

-----------------
1st off, by now it is clear that Obito is sincere to his goal and if he gets to complete the plan then he will make everyone's wishes come true......(i don't really trust Madara on this, he might just make himself king or something lolz)

Now, from Obito's prespective he wants to achieve heaven(Dream world) and take everyone to heaven with him.
a world of winners and all, where everyone will be happy.....
Ok, here naruto and others disagreed with him because they said that it will be a fake happiness and not reality cuz true happiness is meaningful only if achieved in real world.

Now, i don't see this logic(maybe i'm wrong) but..how do you define reality?
as Itachi said,'Reality is only what you believe to be true and real'.....you can also say that it's a feeling.
like if you are in a dream....you feel it as the reality untill you wake up, only then you can differentiate between dream and reality, but what if you never wake up?

yes, then that dream will be your reality....e.g that is what was shown in Matrix, if Anderson never knew about it he would just have been living happily in what he considers reality.

i think you get my point, so how can Naruto and the others say it won't be real if they never know and the jutsu ends only in their death. they would just be living happily without knowing that they are in a dream cuz they'll never wake up.

Now, you may say that this happiness won't be real but happiness is only a feeling and has nothing to do with reality.
if they can get that feeling in the dream world for the rest of their lives then what's the problem??
--------------------------------------

Thank you so much, this is exactly what I've been saying, and, even in other media like the Matrix, when you see how crappy the real world was there, would you say the Matrix was better? Just like in the Narutoverse, and, to an extent, our world.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Lol in the Narutoverse, it's explicitly stated that the Shinju would keep people alive, so, if someone created IT in our world, the same principle would apply.

OK that one of my point

But I'dont know it true or not what you saying because it can be misinterpret by you about keeping alive.

Maybe keeping alive but your brain is no longer dreaming.

If just an assumption, how in one pint you will feel worst pain in your body when turning into zetsu

But put that aside

What about my second point

 

[MAN OF SIN]

You know the god tree could protect them from diseases.

No one is going to counter of disease argument?

 

[Tennis Robot]

What Obito wanted to do was escape reality because he was unable to let go of the past and accept the reality he lived in. It's akin to people who turn to drugs/alcohol to numb the pain in their lives. Or even TV/internet to some extent. On here we all have anonymity, so we feel like we are able to craft our realities the way we want them to be. I'm scared to type too much because my laptop cuts me off and restarts randomly, but I'll elaborate if there is any demand.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

What Obito wanted to do was escape reality because he was unable to let go of the past and accept the reality he lived in. It's akin to people who turn to drugs/alcohol to numb the pain in their lives. Or even TV/internet to some extent. On here we all have anonymity, so we feel like we are able to craft our realities the way we want them to be. I'm scared to type too much because my laptop cuts me off and restarts randomly, but I'll elaborate if there is any demand.

Well, anyone that has goals in life (everyone) wants to escape their current reality in some way by the very act of having goals.