[HT] Edo Itachi vs. Edo Minato

[NarutoX28]

Obito has the same chakra as his TSB yet got separated like its nothing.

It's elementally recomposed into something entirely different as well as the fact that it doesn't require Obito's original Chakra at all whereas Juubito still retains his own Chakra. Itachi's Susano'o is not recomposed as it's simply the manifestation of his chakra and retains any characteristics his chakra has such as Sasuke's hatred manifesting into Susano'o.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

It's elementally recomposed into something entirely different as well as the fact that it doesn't require Obito's original Chakra at all whereas Juubito still retains his own Chakra. Itachi's Susano'o is not recomposed as it's simply the manifestation of his chakra and retains any characteristics his chakra has such as Sasuke's hatred manifesting into Susano'o.

Adding an element to your chakra doesn't change its signature. The only thing that effects chakra signatures is outside boosts. Not things done internally.

 

[NarutoX28]

Adding an element to your chakra doesn't change its signature. The only thing that effects chakra signatures is outside boosts. Not things done internally.

It's still an example of manipulation in multiple different ways. His Chakra signature would still differ from his TSB's taking into consideration that they don't require Obito's Chakra while Juubito still retains his own Chakra signature.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

It's still an example of manipulation in multiple different ways. His Chakra signature would still differ from his TSB's taking into consideration that they don't require Obito's Chakra while Juubito still retains his own Chakra signature.

No it wouldn't. Again. Adding elements dosen't change the signature. Naruto's chakra is naruto's chakra even when he turns it to wind.

Obito merging with juubi changes obito's chakra signature but his techniques (tsb) would still share the same altered signature alongside him.

 

[NarutoX28]

No it wouldn't. Again. Adding elements dosen't change the signature. Naruto's chakra is naruto's chakra even when he turns it to wind.

Minato doesn't refer to chakra signature, he refers to Chakra in general and Nature manipulation alters chakra. In this scenario, the chakra is altered to a significant degree because it's composed of all different elements.

Obito merging with juubi changes obito's chakra signature but his techniques (tsb) would still share the same altered signature alongside him.

Gudodamas only require his Six Paths Senjutsu + his usage of all 5 elements. It doesn't require his own Chakra Signature in order to use it and is not dependant on it.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Minato doesn't refer to chakra signature, he refers to Chakra in general and Nature manipulation alters chakra. In this scenario, the chakra is altered to a significant degree because it's composed of all different elements.



Gudodamas only require his Six Paths Senjutsu + his usage of all 5 elements. It doesn't require his own Chakra Signature in order to use it and is not dependant on it.

Kurama already noted that it's down to the chakra signature. That's how minato was able put both his and kushina's chakra into naruto's seal. It dosen't change the signature. Proof being everyone using kurama's chakra cloak to maximum potential, despite using elemental and Ying yang techs. According to you doing such things would change their sig thus making naruto's going out of his way to match the signatures pointless. We all know that isn't the case.

Godudamas requirements is irrelevant since obito is in posession of it. As such his chakra and by extension sig is reflected in it.

 

[Oblivionx]

Doubt it. Itachi and his Susano'o are both connected as Susano'o is a manifestation of Itachi's Chakra. If he tags Susano'o, then Itachi will simply be warped along with it.

Is that why Gaara was able to pull Madara out of susanoo :lol

And FTG users are capable of selecting what they want and don't want to teleport, even if they are connected. Minato stood on top of Bunta who was on top of Kurama, yet he warped Kurama and left Bunta behind, despite not touching Kurama himself. As long as both are separate entities, ftg can separate them.

Kurama doesn't have the same Chakra as Bunta though.

Minato warps objects when he is linked to their chakra. He simply can't choose what he wants to warp here because both Itachi and his Susano'o have the same chakra, so if he tags Susano'o and attempts to warp it, he'd also have to warp Itachi away as well.

Gaara's example isn't comparable when his method didn't rely on the connection he has with his opponent's chakra like Minato'os method does. Cleary though, I didn't mean they were literally connected, but I did mean they were connected by having the same Chakra.

gaara's example is very comparable as gaara proved that susano and user are separate identities... itachi even stayed out of susano... susano and itachi weren't touching each other at all against nagato so how can you say they can't be separated... if susano and itachi weren't separable then it would be impossible but they are... entire alliance had kurama's chakra yet tobirama teleported few shinobis at a time using minato's and naruto's chakra connection to provide support against jubi... he admitted inferiority to minato as he could not teleport all of them thus proving that teleporting selective things is rather easier as you just have to focus on that thing...
also when obito was about to kill both sasuke and naruto, sasuke had his ribcage up but when minato teleported sasuke and naruto away, no ribcage was there... it was left behind...
on top of everything what you are saying is absurd... As every jutsu has the same chakra or chakra signature as the user... so minato shouldn't be able to teleport any attacks away at all without teleporting the opponent as well... that means if he teleports tbb then kurama should get teleported as well... as tbb and kurama have same chakra... just like tbb, susano is a separate identity so it can be teleported away... susano is also a jutsu... don't confuse it with it being simply chakra... otherwise everyone would have had a susano of their own...
itachi himself confirmed it as a 3rd technique just like Tsykunomi and amaterasu...hopefully it's clear now...

 

[Oblivionx]

lol disliking without replying... and here i was trying to be nice... XD
but i guess it's of no use..... so you concede then? :lol :lol @NarutoX28

 

[Waltz]

I pray to God you aren't implying what I think you are implying.

Anyone who would overlook Edo Itachi's potential to that extent must be a Minato fan. Unlimited use of Yata no Kagami and Totsuka no Tsurugi means that Minato has no chance of winning especially when Itachi creates Kagebunshin wielding these said weapons where one being a mirror would deflect Biju Dama as:

We've already seen what happens when the mirror is confronted with a large-scale attack. First of all, note how the mirror is usually flat:

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When Sasuke threw his exploding tags, you can see the mirror sticking out of the explosion, and there's a SFX to indicate it was shrinking back to it's original size.

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It adjusted to repel the explosion. The third time this is shown, is when the mirror had expanded to repel the second set of explosions

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The fourth time we saw the mirror's expanding capability, it trapped Sasuke. Actually, the mirror repelled his attack, then expanded to trap him, withouthim even noticing

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The first time this is shown, the mirror had adjusted to repel the snakes from Orochimaru's jutsu, and had grown large enough to shield Susanoo itself.

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And the other being the Extendable Katana Totsuka which will be used to Seal Minato the moment he's under Itachi's Genjutsu as being an Edo Tenesi does not make him immune to Genjutsu [

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] and given the time differences between what takes place in Tsukuyomi and what takes place in the outer, physical world----That the events within Totsuka can occur for 24hrs or more while only a single second passes by in the physical world then Kurama would not be able to Snap Minato out in time. In another light to say that Itachi's route is a less effective Genjutsu which is more suitable for this Matchup such as Dusk Crow Genjutsu he can potentially control Kurama's unsealed Yin half with the Shainrgan by entering Minato's psyche. FTG against Susano'o is redundant because of the Inton energy properties that Make up Susnao'o. The redundancy lies in a few factors: Firstly, The portion of Susano'o Minato wishes to tag must be 'tangible' (Sasuke makes Susano'o ethereal to allow Zetsu to pass through it's defense [

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] just as he made it ethereal for Kakashi , Naruto and Sakura to phase though here [

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]). Which leaves sufficient interception: If the option of the Hirashin user is to use their actual bodies or that of a clones to have physical contact with Itachi's Susano'o then the Itachi could allow the desired point to become intangible and crush the Hirashin user via Susanoo's CQC abilities [

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] . Alternately, if Minato decides to use a Hirashin-Kunai; Susano'o could remain intangible to allow the Kunai to pass right through. Inton constantly changes. Something that should be obvious at this point; that, if Susano'o is destroyed it is re-composed by new Inton energy. If the Hirashin Mark was placed on the previously used Inton energy, then it evaporates along with it as it cannot be removed. If per say Susano'o is removed from Itachi via Hirashin ; it in no way secures victory as it can be instantaneously replenished. Tagging Itachi's Susano'o would not enable Minato to withdraw Itachi himself as once more, it is not [constantly] a chakra entity and one inevitably connected to the user as if this were the case, Gaara would not have been able to separate Madara from Susano'o. If a literal connection from the Susano'o to the user's chakra was mandatory for Susano'o to work then Madara would not have been able to control it's Katana's against the Shukaku while lacking the physical connection. Gamabunta and Co. are one shot by Amatearsu and what we have left is Chakra arms. The advantage Minato has however is the larger Chakra pool which is already compensated for by Itachi's phenomenal chakra control + Edo Tensei advantages. The battle only ends with him being caught by Itachi's Genjutsu and he's sealed with Totsuka.

​

 

[NarutoX28]

Kurama already noted that it's down to the chakra signature. That's how minato was able put both his and kushina's chakra into naruto's seal. It dosen't change the signature.

Sure because the chakras don't mix, thus, they actually can be differentiated between.

Proof being everyone using kurama's chakra cloak to maximum potential, despite using elemental and Ying yang techs. According to you doing such things would change their sig thus making naruto's going out of his way to match the signatures pointless. We all know that isn't the case.

Except Kurama's Chakra doesn't alter their Chakras in any single way. The reason why their attacks improved was because both Kurama's and the affected person's chakras are drawn out simultaneously. It makes complete sense unless you want to assume Rikudou Sasuke would suddenly receive the same boost as Hinata did with Kurama's Chakra.

With Obito's Gudodama, the Chakras are altered because they are elementally recomposed and altered significantly because it utilizes all 5 Natures.

Godudamas requirements is irrelevant since obito is in posession of it. As such his chakra and by extension sig is reflected in it.

They are not irrelevant as they signify that only Six Paths Senjutsu + 5 Chakra Natures are used to create it. The Gudodama's capabilities are reflected upon the potency of the person's Six Paths Senjutsu, not the actual user's Chakra.

 

[Rιver]

@Waltz: If we really take into account that Yata no Kagami can repel TBB, then you would be pretty much right. I have actually thought about it a lot, and if something as not so strong like Madaras Gunbai was able to absorb and redirect a miniature TBB, then something as big as Yata no Kagami could do the job.

But no one agrees to this, because it's ''no-limit-fallacy''.

 

[Waltz]

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They always try'na downplay Itachi.

It may or may not reflect the whole thing but any explosive force from it's explosion that would affect the Susano'o would be repelled. ​

 

[Forbidden Technique]

@Waltz: If we really take into account that Yata no Kagami can repel TBB, then you would be pretty much right. I have actually thought about it a lot, and if something as not so strong like Madaras Gunbai was able to absorb and redirect a miniature TBB, then something as big as Yata no Kagami could do the job.

But no one agrees to this, because it's ''no-limit-fallacy''.

With the exception of the Jubi, and perhaps 100% Kurama, I see no reason why Yata Mirror wouldn't be a serviceable defense against it. "No limit fallacy" isn't by any means a concrete argument when applying both their hype, feats, and fair reasoning.

 

[Valhorus]

Hebi Sasuke solos Itachi , Minato rapes .

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Sure because the chakras don't mix, thus, they actually can be differentiated between.

no shit it dosen't mix. It's altered to provide maximum use.

Except Kurama's Chakra doesn't alter their Chakras in any single way.

that's not whats being argued..... Reread what I said.

The reason why their attacks improved was because both Kurama's and the affected person's chakras are drawn out simultaneously.

You still don't get it.

It makes complete sense unless you want to assume Rikudou Sasuke would suddenly receive the same boost as Hinata did with Kurama's Chakra.

what?
I'd dosen't make any sense for naruto to go out of his way to match it so precisely if they're just gonna change their sig via jutsu. Conclusion? Their sig doesn't change when using jutsu. It's still their chakra.

With Obito's Gudodama, the Chakras are altered because they are elementally recomposed and altered significantly because it utilizes all 5 Natures.

no its not. I just finished explaining that that's bs. It's still obito's chakra in the orbs.

They are not irrelevant as they signify that only Six Paths Senjutsu + 5 Chakra Natures are used to create it. The Gudodama's capabilities are reflected upon the potency of the person's Six Paths Senjutsu, not the actual user's Chakra.

false. It's obito's chakra plus everything you said inside the orbs.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Ftg warps yata. No need to break it.

 

[Apêx1]

Let's also not forget that Yata is ethereal/metaphysical; it possesses no physical form [

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]. It's literally just there to deflect anything that comes near it - it cannot be destroyed because it is not physical. This is the same case with Totsuka, which possesses no physical form. So Totsuka and Yata are basically always in a comparable state to the Susano's ethereal state, which can phase through anything (wouldn't happen to Yata for obvious reasons) [

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][

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][

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]. People need to understand the difference between spiritual items and regular jutsu. A mini-TBB was reflected with a Gunbai as River pointed out without any troubles at all. And that Gunbai had physical form, nor was it a spiritual item (nor comparable). The Yata Mirror is not only metaphysical but it also changes its traits to repel any attack, meaning despite its power, its getting repelled because it can't bypass the metaphysical defence that is reinforcing a v4 Susano. People make it seem like v4 Susano needs an armour that is weaker then itself, which makes literally no sense. Especially when that armor is a spiritual item. Its tremendous hype, its feats and the 'hyperboles' being continuously restated leads me to believe that it does in fact do what is suggested.

 

[Brooks]

Rasengan? lolololo

Eien no Mangekyō Sharingan Itachi with Yata no Kagami at this level will easily deflect or repel Minato's arsenal(including Bijūdama).

Minato's major problem rely on the fact Yata no Kagami has no physical form(making any attempt to destroy it useless, while deflecting his attack back at him).​

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[xxSAGExx]

Conditions: Itachi has EMS with PS.
Minato has BM and FTG but cannot tag Itachi with FTG.
Itachi's capacity is increased to the point where he can maintain Susano'o ribcage at all times.

Location: VoTE.

Edo Minato wins, he doesn't have to mark you to teleport you, whatever his chakra touches can be teleported to Minato or to any other marked place. Edo Minato can use KM or BM to increase his speed beyond War Arc KM and BM Naruto since he is faster than Naruto in base and Shunshin speed depends on the chakra you use. Edo Minato is a sensor and gains more Sensory abilities with KM/BM plus he still has SM which is what Pein arc Naruto had. Minato is a sealing master while Itachi only sealing jutsu is Totsuka blade; Edo Minato can have his clone grab PS and teleport Edo Itachi to Edo Minato as Edo Minato already has a sealing jutsu prepared to seal Itachi or hit him with a Rasengan then seal him.

 

[BlacLord™]

Well, the poll calls a draw thus far so for now, it's being called a draw.

Unless someone can pull a comprehensive argument for one or the other.