How the "Kage" are set up by Kishimoto

[Strawberry]

no can do king hashirama.. Even overall it was never about who was a better ninja, every ninja in top 20-30, is powerful in his or her own right, and is useful for different circumstances. as far as Strength goes, i don't understand having stronger moves, being faster, having larger chakra reserves doesnt mean you will win or you are automatically stronger. Getting stabbed directly will kill you taking a chidori to the heart will kill you, minato's ftg could potentially take down any ninja above him, pains soul suck can be instant death. A totsuka randomly hiting will result in being sealed.
Strength is hard to compare, when the way we see it is how you will perform in battle. this method of kage being absolutely stronger is absurd. jiraiya can potentially take down tobirama, minato and beee can take down A, Kisame couldve killed mei.

 

[Strawberry]

Itachi is the same guy who said only someone related to him can kill him. So which would make Itachi >> Hashirama amen?

The fact that Jiraiya gave Naruto a counter for Itachi's tsukuyomi and your choosing to ignore it doesn't really look good on your part.

Cold Hard Manga fact is Genjutsu can be broken by Chakra disruption....... When was the last time Itachi faced a Hokage?



hmm.. but Jiraiya literally told Naruto how to counter it.

that was regular genjutsu not possibly the 2nd strongest genjutsu in existence

 

[KidGamer65]

Itachi is the same guy who said only someone related to him can kill him. So which would make Itachi >> Hashirama amen?

The fact that Jiraiya gave Naruto a counter for Itachi's tsukuyomi and your choosing to ignore it doesn't really look good on your part.

Cold Hard Manga fact is Genjutsu can be broken by Chakra disruption....... When was the last time Itachi faced a Hokage?

The whole page was in reference to Tsukuyomi not in a all around fight. Context...learn what it is.

Genjutsu Kai isn't a definite counter for Genjutsu. You'd know this if you stopped playing the fool and read the manga.

-Naruto asks "What if it doesn't work" Jiraiya responds with the partner method.
-Naruto used Genjutsu Kai vs Itachi. Guess what the result was.

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Not to mention Tsukuyomi is clearly stronger than any basic Genjutsu.

Jiraiya clearly says that to break Genjutsu you need to overpower the hold the opponent has over your chakra in order to disrupt it, if the Genjutsu is too strong (Tsukuyomi, Gama Rinsho) You can't do that.

And then we come back to the fact that Jiraiya doesn't have full info on Tsukuyomi nor does he speak specifically about Tsukuyomi when he talks about Genjutsu users, as Itachi uses more than just Genjutsu.

Good Chakra Control=/=Genjutsu immunity. It just makes it easier to break out than it is for others.

And we end this argument with the fact you have nothing on your side while I have the manga, the Databook and therefore Kishimoto himself on my side.

If you wanna deny it not my problem, facts will be facts. End of discussion.

 

[KingHashirama]

He's going to argue that Kakashi has shitty chakra control..
Why are people even arguing with this guy?

This is the guy who is taking Itachi on his self-hyped words and then ignoring the other point he made about only someone related to him can beat him...

..Split second in Tsukuyomi can be however long Itachi wants it to be. She wont even realize shes in Tsukuyomi before its too late.. Get real dude. And you STILL havent given a counter to Amaterasu nor Totsuka

Now your treating a person who created a whole different branch in the Shinobi system as a retard..... Totsuka can dodged... there is no point in bringing out something that isn't going to help. Have we also forgotten about all the "hide" and "attack" scenarios? Like I said there is no point comparing a person who doesn't have 3 for stamina to someone who can do a summoning jutsu while being cut in half....

So why didn't Kakashi break out of Tsukuyomi with his chakra control? His chakra control is MUCH greater than anything Naruto had shown when he "disrupted" Itachi's genjutsu.

@ Bold
And how do you know this?

The whole page was in reference to Tsukuyomi not in a all around fight.

Genjutsu Kai isn't a definite counter for Genjutsu. You'd know this if you stopped playing the fool and read the manga.

-Naruto asks "What if it doesn't work" Jiraiya responds with the partner method.
-Naruto used Genjutsu Kai vs Itachi. Guess what the result was.

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Not to mention Tsukuyomi is clearly stronger than any basic Genjutsu.

Jiraiya clearly says that to break Genjutsu you need to overpower the hold the opponent has over your chakra in order to disrupt it, if the Genjutsu is too strong (Tsukuyomi, Gama Rinsho) You can't do that.

And then we come back to the fact that Jiraiya doesn't have full info on Tsukuyomi nor does he speak specifically about Tsukuyomi when he talks about Genjutsu users, as Itachi uses more than just Genjutsu.

Good Chakra Control=/=Genjutsu immunity. It just makes it easier to break out than it is for others.

@Bold and Underline, that is a sad excuse to defend your point...
He only has 1 quote for Tsukuyomi, other wise he refers to his overall prowess.

I do read the manga, and that is why I'm believing in what Jiraiya said , instead of what your ego is telling you to believe in. Mate you have constantly insulted Tsunade and downgraded her, even when her feats are shown..... lmao.

And hell now your comparing Tsunade's chakra control to Naruto's..... Jiraiya specifically trained Naruto to fend off against Itachi after he saw what happened to Sasuke.... Because Itachi is the only genjutsu expert known that was Naruto's enemy.

 

[Owarij]

.....now are you arguing that kakashi's chakra control is inferior to naruto's..

 

[Space Cowboy]

This is the guy who is taking Itachi on his self-hyped words and then ignoring the other point he made about only someone related to him can beat him...


Now your treating a person who created a whole different branch in the Shinobi system as a retard..... Totsuka can dodged... there is no point in bringing out something that isn't going to help. Have we also forgotten about all the "hide" and "attack" scenarios? Like I said there is no point comparing a person who doesn't have 3 for stamina to someone who can do a summoning jutsu while being cut in half....



@ Bold
And how do you know this?

..So Nagato + Orochimaru (fellow Sannin) = retards? Totsuka's speed was shown to take both by surprise, and Tsunade is hardly a speedy fighter. I give up dude, you know this whole thread is shit. Itachi used quite a few techniques against Sasuke if you wanna go read it again. Not to mention, once again, youve offered no counter to Amaterasu, as she doesnt have one.

 

[Booker]

This is the guy who is taking Itachi on his self-hyped words and then ignoring the other point he made about only someone related to him can beat him...


Now your treating a person who created a whole different branch in the Shinobi system as a retard..... Totsuka can dodged... there is no point in bringing out something that isn't going to help. Have we also forgotten about all the "hide" and "attack" scenarios? Like I said there is no point comparing a person who doesn't have 3 for stamina to someone who can do a summoning jutsu while being cut in half....



@ Bold
And how do you know this?

Because Lightning Blade >>>>>> any chakra control Naruto had at the time.

Plus the fact he has mastered over 1,000 jutsus, which implies great chakra control.

 

[Owarij]

kakashi can easily make rasengan with one hand... naruto couldn't...

how is this an argument?

 

[Naruto D Luffy]

Hurizen is a kage level.

 

[KingHashirama]

.....now are you arguing that kakashi's chakra control is inferior to naruto's..

And when did I say this?

..So Nagato + Orochimaru (fellow Sannin) = retards? Totsuka's speed was shown to take both by surprise, and Tsunade is hardly a speedy fighter. I give up dude, you know this whole thread is shit. Itachi used quite a few techniques against Sasuke if you wanna go read it again. Not to mention, once again, youve offered no counter to Amaterasu, as she doesnt have one.

Orochimaru was in a stated where he couldn't move... Nagato was in a state where he was being controlled by Kabuto.. are you really going to compare those 2 ?

LIKE I SAID BEFORE IT IS DEPENDENT ON THE SCENARIO...... she can very well talk to him and take him out by surprise..... and so on. your making it seem like she has to go face to face against Itachi and can't use a plan.. lmao.

Because Lightning Blade >>>>>> any chakra control Naruto had at the time.

Plus the fact he has mastered over 1,000 jutsus, which implies great chakra control.

Sasuke had lightening blade.. but had inferior chakra control compared to Sakura....


And its a fact he COPIED 1000 jutsu due to his sharingan... not "mastered"

kakashi can easily make rasengan with one hand... naruto couldn't...

how is this an argument?

Sasuke created Chidori, still inferior to Sakura in chakra control.

what is the point of posting non-sense and creating delimma about a question? Saying me asking a question is a argument... shows very well what you know about a "Argument".

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Interesting discussion Lol

 

[amarusboobs]

I would not believe so. Sure... Hashirama is stronger than a lot, he is the "God of All Shinobi". But as for the other... Tobirama has no know feats, accept he is Hokage, so he must be strong. Hiruzen... He could be taken by Itachi or Jariaya or Kakashi (with Reaper Death Seal Exempted) in my opinion... Also, some have rejected the role of Hokage, eg. Jariaya and Kakashi. There are lots of shinobi that are Hokage level, but just lack other qualities.

 

[Booker]

And when did I say this?


Orochimaru was in a stated where he couldn't move... Nagato was in a state where he was being controlled by Kabuto.. are you really going to compare those 2 ?

LIKE I SAID BEFORE IT IS DEPENDENT ON THE SCENARIO...... she can very well talk to him and take him out by surprise..... and so on. your making it seem like she has to go face to face against Itachi and can't use a plan.. lmao.




Sasuke had lightening blade.. but had inferior chakra control compared to Sakura....


And its a fact he COPIED 1000 jutsu due to his sharingan... not "mastered"



Sasuke created Chidori, still inferior to Sakura in chakra control.

what is the point of posting non-sense and creating delimma about a question? Saying me asking a question is a argument... shows very well what you know about a "Argument".

Sasuke never had lightning blade. Shows how much you know about Manga.

That equals done. Kakashi made Rasengan with one hand. Naruto still can't do that.

 

[Space Cowboy]

And when did I say this?


Orochimaru was in a stated where he couldn't move... Nagato was in a state where he was being controlled by Kabuto.. are you really going to compare those 2 ?

LIKE I SAID BEFORE IT IS DEPENDENT ON THE SCENARIO...... she can very well talk to him and take him out by surprise..... and so on. your making it seem like she has to go face to face against Itachi and can't use a plan.. lmao.

He had little problem reacting to both BM Naruto and Hachibi cloak Bee. Point invalid. The Oro point was simply to show that he didnt even realize Itachi was attacking until after he had already initially been pierced. Tsunade meanwhile, has no speed feats to speak of. And come on youve been here long enough to know that their power is measured by how they would react in a spontaneous 1 v 1 fight, in which case Tsunade once again gets murder-raped with relative ease. Not too mention youre pitting her up against arguably the most tactical-minded shinobi in the series. Theres not a chance she outsmarts him. Try again

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

-sigh-. Jiraiya already admit inferiority to Tsunade, whether he meant it in other way or w.e. Only way Jiraiya can compete with Base Tsunade is Sage mode...... Tsunade's recent power up puts her on top.

What manga events have made that clear?

Uhh... Jiraiya "needs" Sage Mode to compete against Tsunade's new Deadpool-level regeneration? That doesn't make sense.

And when did I say this?


Orochimaru was in a stated where he couldn't move... Nagato was in a state where he was being controlled by Kabuto.. are you really going to compare those 2 ?

LIKE I SAID BEFORE IT IS DEPENDENT ON THE SCENARIO...... she can very well talk to him and take him out by surprise..... and so on. your making it seem like she has to go face to face against Itachi and can't use a plan.. lmao.

Indeed.

 

[KingHashirama]

Sasuke never had lightning blade. Shows how much you know about Manga.

That equals done. Kakashi made Rasengan with one hand. Naruto still can't do that.

You have a point there, I had chidori and lightening blade mixed. my apologies.

Jiraiya made Rasengan with 1 hand = better chakra control then a person who her live has focused on chakra control? hmm ok

He had little problem reacting to both BM Naruto and Hachibi cloak Bee. Point invalid. The Oro point was simply to show that he didnt even realize Itachi was attacking until after he had already initially been pierced. Tsunade meanwhile, has no speed feats to speak of. And come on youve been here long enough to know that their power is measured by how they would react in a spontaneous 1 v 1 fight, in which case Tsunade once again gets murder-raped with relative ease. Not too mention youre pitting her up against arguably the most tactical-minded shinobi in the series. Theres not a chance she outsmarts him. Try again

He didn't even go against BM Naruto....

However, can Itachi get Tsunade into those situations? Nagato couldn't see Itachi's Susano'o amonst that dust....

Now when you say tsunade has no speed facts..It doesn't really help your point counting she has caught Orochimaru and Shizune and Kabuto by surprise.. and has better reaction time then all the current Kage.

And no power is not measured by how they would react in a random 1 vs 1 fight with no knowledge.. if that was the case Danzo > Itachi.

Are you calling Itachi a guy who is only tactical as the battle goes on smarter then someone who created a whole system and studied way more then Itachi and not to mention had the tactical genius to assign good teams for back up.

Uhh... Jiraiya "needs" Sage Mode to compete against Tsunade's new Deadpool-level regeneration? That doesn't make sense.

no sir.. just base form Tsunade.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Sasuke never had lightning blade. Shows how much you know about Manga.
That equals done. Kakashi made Rasengan with one hand. Naruto still can't do that.

Chidori is lightning blade. But ever since kakashi supposedly cut lightning he calls it raikiri.
Shows how much u know manga.

 

[Owarij]

Sasuke created Chidori, still inferior to Sakura in chakra control.

what is the point of posting non-sense and creating delimma about a question? Saying me asking a question is a argument... shows very well what you know about a "Argument".

The statement was relevant to the argument, because it was BECAUSE of naruto's horrid chakra control (mostly due to kyuubi) that he was incapable of making rasengan with one hand


shit, i'm in a debate with someone who thinks Tsunade can beat Itachi...Good day to you sir

 

[Space Cowboy]

Chidori is lightning blade. But ever since kakashi supposedly cut lightning he calls it raikiri.
Shows how much u know manga.

Lol, no bud. Raikiri is different then chidori. Supposedly more concentrated/powerful. It is also an S-rank technique, as opposed to an A-rank like chidori

 

[Booker]

You have a point there, I had chidori and lightening blade mixed. my apologies.

Jiraiya made Rasengan with 1 hand = better chakra control then a person who her live has focused on chakra control? hmm ok

Except chakra control =/= a break out of Tsukuyomi.

Like somebody mentioned before, a second in Real world can be a week in Tsukuyomi. Tsunade gets caught and she's finished.