hiruzen is not the strongest hokage... proof

[Unbiased]

Both the first and second Hokage fought countless wars in their days. I think its fair to say they would have noticed by tagged with a paper bomb.
Bolded bit: Shinobi battles are not all about what techniques you can use. They're about how you use them. For example Minato is a very powerful character with his skillset. Now give all his techs to someone like Naruto and he wont be quite as powerful. That's why edos with free will and much better than ones being controlled like puppets. They have years of experience with their techs and they know how best to utilize them.

Not necessarily. Go re-read the 3rd Raikage and Nagato fight and Zabuza/Haku

 

[Exaar]

So it seems this is war. I always stayed away from this discussion but im fully in it now.
Im gonna run riot in hashirama's fanbase

You must be registered for see images

 

[OnPoint]

Yet he was still able to utilize him to his full potential. Further proving my point. He didn't know his techniques yet he could use all of them.

He clearly did not use Nagato to his full potential. Only can Nagato draw out his maximum, because only he (with 30+ years of experience) knows which techniques are appropriate for him and his body in particular situations. Only he knows what his best fighting style is, obviously. The fact that Kabuto had to question and take time to ponder what Nagato's jutsu list shows that his ability to use techniques quickly, efficiently and appropriately was not on the level of the real Nagato.

 

[Unbiased]

He clearly did not use Nagato to his full potential. Only Nagato draw out his maximum, because only he (with 30+ years of experience) knows which techniques are appropriate for him and his body in particular situations. Only he knows what his best fighting style is, obviously. The fact that Kabuto had to question and take time to ponder what Nagato's jutsu list shows that his ability to use techniques quickly, efficiently and appropriately was not on the level of the real Nagato.

He used every technique nagato demonstrated during the invasion of pain. So what were you saying?

 

[Zlad]

Now where is KingHashirama? I wanna see if he is going to say that mokuton can block a TBB, lmao xds

 

[TrollingSage]

There's no proof that it wouldn't happen. There's just none at all.



Yet he was still able to utilize him to his full potential. Further proving my point. He didn't know his techniques yet he could use all of them.

Yea Nagato got one shotted by Itachi and the 3rd got owned by a Naruto clone. This doesnt help you point at all. If anything it proves it wrong.

 

[Hipster Madara]

Oh gawd, bad memories coming back.
You can fight about Hashirama vs Hiruzen all day, but PLEASE don't make spin off threads and start flame world war II. xd

@ Small, ADHD Blaze,
Noddy's got this. You weren't good at these debates anyways. (lol)

As for my opinion on the topic, I think that Kishi has displayed several times before that he changed him mind on Hiruzen being top dog. The evidence is overwhelming. If he wanted to continue with what he said in Part 1, he would have at least mentioned Hiruzen by now.
Regardless, we have seen neither in prime and so this war is basically a dead end. Everything people say are merely assumptions based on inconsistent power levels that shouldn't be compared.

 

[Owarij]

Did someone say Hashirama > Hiruzen?

 

[OnPoint]

He used every technique nagato demonstrated during the invasion of pain. So what were you saying?

That's like claiming someone could be using Naruto to his full potential whilst defending against Amaterasu with a Rasengan. Only the original user will have complete knowledge over their abilities and when the absolute best time is to use them. Kabuto's Edo Nagato wasn't bad, but it clearly wouldn't be as good as an Edo Nagato who is acting autonomously and has full control over his actions. As TrollingSage already pointed out, Edo summons with free will are undoubtedly going to be more effective than their fully suppressed counterparts.

 

[Unbiased]

Yea Nagato got one shotted by Itachi and the 3rd got owned by a Naruto clone. This doesnt help you point at all. If anything it proves it wrong.

Actually Nagato got one shotted by Bee, Naruto, and Itachi working together and the 3rd got owned because Gyuki told him of their fight.

 

[Unbiased]

That's like claiming someone could be using Naruto to his full potential whilst defending against Amaterasu with a Rasengan. Only the original user will have complete knowledge over their abilities and when the absolute best time is to use them. Kabuto's Edo Nagato wasn't better, but it clearly wouldn't be as good as an Edo Nagato who is acting autonomously and has full control over his actions. As TrollingSage already pointed out, Edo summons with free will are undoubtedly going to be more effective than their fully suppressed counterparts.

There's no proof whatsoever that they'll be better.

 

[Unbiased]

You must be registered for see images

 

[Blaze Release]

You must be registered for see images

"The deciding factor for life and death in the fight between the sandaime and orochimaru is AGE".It follows by saying "If only the third were 10 years younger the outcome could have been different"

Implying that at 59 Hiruzen could've defeated orochimaru and his 2 edo's and even at 59 that is NOT Hiruzen's prime. He didn't do two bad of a job though at 69.

For the lolz, Owarij, you pic

You must be registered for see images

"The two shinobi's were equally matched and the battle seemed endless"

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

There's no proof that it wouldn't happen. There's just none at all.

And the proof that it would?

 

[Unbiased]

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

"The deciding factor for life and death in the fight between the sandaime and orochimaru is AGE".It follows by saying "If only the third were 10 years younger the outcome could have been different"

Implying that at 59 Hiruzen could've defeated orochimaru and his 2 edo's and even at 59 that is NOT Hiruzen's prime. He didn't do two bad of a job though at 69.

For the lolz, Owarij, you pic

You must be registered for see images

"The two shinobi's were equally matched and the battle seemed endless"

I never thought I'd be siding with you...anyways ^^^^

 

[Unbiased]

And the proof that it would?

The proof that it would is that it did happen. I'm not trying to create a flame war mind you but I'm sure you know that I like debating just as much as you.

 

[TrollingSage]

There's no proof whatsoever that they'll be better.

Oh really? Why did Kabuto say it was best he left Madara to his own devices then?

You must be registered for see images

"The deciding factor for life and death in the fight between the sandaime and orochimaru is AGE".It follows by saying "If only the third were 10 years younger the outcome could have been different"

Implying that at 59 Hiruzen could've defeated orochimaru and his 2 edo's and even at 59 that is NOT Hiruzen's prime. He didn't do two bad of a job though at 69.

For the lolz, Owarij, you pic

You must be registered for see images

"The two shinobi's were equally matched and the battle seemed endless"

Thats open to interpretation. You could argue if Hiruzen was 10 years younger, he would have been able to pull Oro's soul completely out of his body and Oro would have been completely sealed along with the kages

 

[-Punk-]

hiruzen is all hype ..... come at me

 

[Unbiased]

Oh really? Why did Kabuto say it was best he left Madara to his own devices then?

Manga page please.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Now where is KingHashirama? I wanna see if he is going to say that mokuton can block a TBB, lmao xds

Yet hashirama had how many bijuu under his possession..? Not saying his basic wood release can but it is obvious he had some counter.