Does Sasuke Feel Bad About What He's Doing?

[Shadow Phantasm]

Said Adolf Hitler.

Invoking Godwin's Law is a bad move my friend.

 

[V h o]

Peace is often built on blood and sacrifice.

In the 1800's. Years later nations realized they would be better just forming alliances where both parties get some form of gain and don't waste money in a war. Take the European union

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Invoking Godwin's Law is a bad move my friend.

Peace came about through blood and sacrifice because with them came understanding, not because of death alone.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I can't believe people actually support Sasuke's plan.... :| I have no words

I find it hilarious that you people truly believe the only way to solve all your problems is killing. Screw it, let's just go to war with every country that disagrees with us, let's just kill everyone that stands in our way, because that's the right thing, that's what works, right?

Way to be unable to counter the rest.

And I'm not saying Sasuke's way is guaranteed to be successful and miraculously result in peace, I'm saying the past system didn't work, and Sasuke's way of taking out those who withhold it to bring about a needed change isn't inherently evil, it isn't a guaranteed wrong either. There's a possibility it could work.

 

[Stxluciferr]

We could have imprisoned them and everything would've gone the same, the Nazis were executed because they committed war crimes, not because they were still a threat. In regards to the Uchiha and the Senju thing, the Uchiha ended up where they were because Madara couldn't let to of the past and chose to wage war on Konoha, making Tobirama even more paranoid of them, remember? Then, when Obito attacked the village using Kurama, the village elders became paranoid once again, leading to their persecution, and eventually there deaths. That wasn't Hashirama or Hiruzen's faults, that was because of Obito and Madara, two Uchiha.

And, no, it can't, that'd be like making Germany either British or American territory. In fact, it was people holding on to the past that helped cause the Second World War.

Imprisoning them would have sent the message that what they did wasn't all that bad. Also had we chose to imprison them people within Germany would still have a connection to their still alive leaders and be less likely to buy into the system we were trying to establish. Tobirama already showed he was going to have a natural disdain and distrust of the uchiha even while Madara was with the village helping. I understand where he was coming from but he basically already racially (for lack of a better word) profiled them and put them in a box of being too emotional. So maybe those two were specifically what sparked what happened, but that which was hiding under the surface was still going to be there waiting for a catalysis.

The Second World War happened because we slapped them with rules and sanctions but then didn't reinforce them. After the Second World War we again slapped them with rules and regulations, but this time we divided Germany up between the east and west with western leadership controlling the west (U.S, U.K, France) and eastern leadership controlling the east (Soviets)

 

[V h o]

Way to be unable to counter the rest.

And I'm not saying Sasuke's way is guaranteed to be successful and miraculously result in peace, I'm saying the past system didn't work, and Sasuke's way of taking out those who withhold it to bring about a needed change isn't inherently evil, it isn't a guaranteed wrong either. There's a possibility it could work.

Yeah I'm not going to argue this. Your ideology is far too different for me to explain this. This "past" system lead to the SA, clearly this system isn't like Hashirama's war era. Sasuke wants to kill the leaders who brought this change all because he disagrees. Put someone like Sasuke in the real world and he would be seen as a terrorist. How would you feel if X person came to your country and kill your leader claiming their way was bad and they will be leading now?

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Imprisoning them would have sent the message that what they did wasn't all that bad. Also had we chose to imprison them people within Germany would still have a connection to their still alive leaders and be less likely to buy into the system we were trying to establish. Tobirama already showed he was going to have a natural disdain and distrust of the uchiha even while Madara was with the village helping. I understand where he was coming from but he basically already racially (for lack of a better word) profiled them and put them in a box of being too emotional. So maybe those two were specifically what sparked what happened, but that which was hiding under the surface was still going to be there waiting for a catalysis.

The Second World War happened because we slapped them with rules and sanctions but then didn't reinforce them. After the Second World War we again slapped them with rules and regulations, but this time we divided Germany up between the east and west with western leadership controlling the west (U.S, U.K, France) and eastern leadership controlling the east (Soviets)

But we solved that issue peacefully. In regards to imprisoning the Nazis, well, we didn't kill Nazi scientists, even though they also committed horrific experiments. Also, the village wouldn't have backed Danzo had it not been for Obito's actions. Tobirama was prejudiced, but he didn't have the power to hurt them much, and could use Madara's attack as an excuse for semi-persecuting them (besides, he thought he was helping them).

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yeah I'm not going to argue this. Your ideology is far too different for me to explain this. This "past" system lead to the SA, clearly this system isn't like Hashirama's war era. Sasuke wants to kill the leaders who brought this change all because he disagrees. Put someone like Sasuke in the real world and he would be seen as a terrorist. How would you feel if X person came to your country and kill your leader claiming their way was bad and they will be leading now?

What makes Sasuke's way bad? Because the upholders of the way that was bad is his target? Tell me, did the Shinobi alliance talk things out with Kaguya? Did they chat with Madara? Did they have a conversation with Akatsuki? You keep saying Sasuke is wrong for this and that when the side you're supporting has done the same. Have you ever heard of a canon prison in Naruto? You know how they handle criminals? With a grave. They're gonna try to kill Sasuke too.

You say those ideals led to the SA so they aren't that bad. Well let's have this analogy. A child is bullied. This leads him to be quiet and reserved and have no confidence in himself. Then one day, he just blows up, stands up for himself and the bully backs off. Now he is confident and outspoken and no longer reserved. Will you support bullying because it led to him being confident and no longer reserved? Will you call people who want to get rid of bullying and bullies wrong?

In the real world, the difference between terrorism and revolution is whether you win or you lose. If the founding fathers lost the war for independence for the United States, history books would be calling them traitors, not the illustrious founding fathers.

 

[V h o]

What makes Sasuke's way bad? Because the upholders of the way that was bad is his target? Tell me, did the Shinobi alliance talk things out with Kaguya? Did they chat with Madara? Did they have a conversation with Akatsuki? You keep saying Sasuke is wrong for this and that when the side you're supporting has done the same. Have you ever heard of a canon prison in Naruto? You know how they handle criminals? With a grave. They're gonna try to kill Sasuke too.

You say those ideals led to the SA so they aren't that bad. Well let's have this analogy. A child is bullied. This leads him to be quiet and reserved and have no confidence in himself. Then one day, he just blows up, stands up for himself and the bully backs off. Now he is confident and outspoken and no longer reserved. Will you support bullying because it led to him being confident and no longer reserved? Will you call people who want to get rid of bullying and bullies wrong?

In the real world, the difference between terrorism and revolution is whether you win or you lose. If the founding fathers lost the war for independence for the United States, history books would be calling them traitors, not the illustrious founding fathers.

Yeah I don't expect you to agree with me, and I don't really want to change your opinion. At this point, if you agree with Sasuke's plan I won't even attempt to change your thinking.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

What makes Sasuke's way bad? Because the upholders of the way that was bad is his target? Tell me, did the Shinobi alliance talk things out with Kaguya? Did they chat with Madara? Did they have a conversation with Akatsuki? You keep saying Sasuke is wrong for this and that when the side you're supporting has done the same. Have you ever heard of a canon prison in Naruto? You know how they handle criminals? With a grave. They're gonna try to kill Sasuke too.

You say those ideals led to the SA so they aren't that bad. Well let's have this analogy. A child is bullied. This leads him to be quiet and reserved and have no confidence in himself. Then one day, he just blows up, stands up for himself and the bully backs off. Now he is confident and outspoken and no longer reserved. Will you support bullying because it led to him being confident and no longer reserved? Will you call people who want to get rid of bullying and bullies wrong?

In the real world, the difference between terrorism and revolution is whether you win or you lose. If the founding fathers lost the war for independence for the United States, history books would be calling them traitors, not the illustrious founding fathers.

Let's see, Kaguya enslaved all of them, and Madara never stopped attacking them, when would they have talked? And, you're analogy with the child, let's be more accurate here and say the bullied child goes home, gets a gun, and shoots up his school, that's a better analogy for what Madara and Obito have done, and what Sasuke intends to do. Sasuke honestly intends to kill the first Kate in history to stand side by side as allies, you really think that's the right way?

 

[WalksInShadows]

Let's face it sasuke is still naive,he doesn't know what right or wrong is.
Childish Lil kiddo

in restrospect, Itachi wasn't entirely wrong in wanting to use Koto on Sasuke. The dude is just lost.

 

[Stxluciferr]

But we solved that issue peacefully. In regards to imprisoning the Nazis, well, we didn't kill Nazi scientists, even though they also committed horrific experiments. Also, the village wouldn't have backed Danzo had it not been for Obito's actions. Tobirama was prejudiced, but he didn't have the power to hurt them much, and could use Madara's attack as an excuse for semi-persecuting them (besides, he thought he was helping them).

We didn't kill all Nazi scientist because they weren't exactly the leaders and had valuable information that was needed to take world into a new modern era. And even so, some of them were still killed. Tobirama wasn't all bad and he had good intentions but good intentions simply aren't always enough

 

[Punk Hazard]

Let's see, Kaguya enslaved all of them, and Madara never stopped attacking them, when would they have talked? And, you're analogy with the child, let's be more accurate here and say the bullied child goes home, gets a gun, and shoots up his school, that's a better analogy for what Madara and Obito have done, and what Sasuke intends to do. Sasuke honestly intends to kill the first Kate in history to stand side by side as allies, you really think that's the right way?

Better analogy for Madara and Obito, but not Sasuke. He isn't attacking the entire world, just the metaphorical bullies. Faulty premise indeed.

Proof after the war they're gonna always be allies? Proof future Kage/leaders will be perfect? The difference is Sasuke is placing his bets on pragmatism, while the side you're supporting is faith. Nothing but logic and taking action vs guessing, doing what you did before, and hoping you didn't **** up again.

 

[sjarkhor]

Better analogy for Madara and Obito, but not Sasuke. He isn't attacking the entire world, just the metaphorical bullies. Faulty premise indeed.

Proof after the war they're gonna always be allies? Proof future Kage/leaders will be perfect? The difference is Sasuke is placing his bets on pragmatism, while the side you're supporting is faith. Nothing but logic and taking action vs guessing, doing what you did before, and hoping you didn't **** up again.

"Doing what you did before and hoping you didn't **** up again" : it worked obviously, refer to 5 kages vs madara (damn, even include SA)

man, it gives me chills that there are people who actually agree's with sasuke's ideals..

SO BY YOU LOGIC,
(obviously naru and sasu's ideals doesnt match, and here we are here having the same problems)

SO, IS IT F*****G FINE FOR YOU IF I KILL YOU ALL WHO DOESNT AGREE WITH MY IDEALS?
(that means including you and the trolls coz we have the opposite ideals)

i hope that answers your question....

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Better analogy for Madara and Obito, but not Sasuke. He isn't attacking the entire world, just the metaphorical bullies. Faulty premise indeed.

Proof after the war they're gonna always be allies? Proof future Kage/leaders will be perfect? The difference is Sasuke is placing his bets on pragmatism, while the side you're supporting is faith. Nothing but logic and taking action vs guessing, doing what you did before, and hoping you didn't **** up again.

Then you're speculating they will go back to war just as much as I'm speculating that Sasuke is wrong. What I do know is that this is the first time all five kage worked together, and this is the first time the world's been united, and that, for all the positives that could come from that, Sasuke is about to destroy it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

"Doing what you did before and hoping you didn't **** up again" : it worked obviously, refer to 5 kages vs madara (damn, even include SA)

man, it gives me chills that there are people who actually agree's with sasuke's ideals..

SO BY YOU LOGIC,
(obviously naru and sasu's ideals doesnt match, and here we are here having the same problems)

SO, IS IT F*****G FINE FOR YOU IF I KILL YOU ALL WHO DOESNT AGREE WITH MY IDEALS?
(that means including you and the trolls coz we have the opposite ideals)

i hope that answers your question....

I can't really take you seriously when you think killing someone because of a difference of opinion pertaining to literature is comparable to killing someone because they're a political leader and their policies have caused ruin before.

Should we have left Hitler to rule because it was just a difference in opinion towards leadership policies? Please, what if the Kages keep the Shinobi system(most likely as Naruto wants to be Hokage showing that his way is gonna keep them separate) and Sasuke's ideals are to pool resources and become one nation that uses its ninja for more practical uses now that there's no need to slaughter and steal info/resources from each other? You people simply don't have a pragmatic mindset.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

I can't really take you seriously when you think killing someone because of a difference of opinion pertaining to literature is comparable to killing someone because they're a political leader and their policies have caused ruin before.

Should we have left Hitler to rule because it was just a difference in opinion towards leadership policies? Please, what if the Kages keep the Shinobi system(most likely as Naruto wants to be Hokage showing that his way is gonna keep them separate) and Sasuke's ideals are to pool resources and become one nation that uses its ninja for more practical uses now that there's no need to slaughter and steal info/resources from each other? You people simply don't have a pragmatic mindset.

What if Naruto has the same ideal and plans to bring it about through peace rather than violence?

 

[Punk Hazard]

What if Naruto has the same ideal and plans to bring it about through peace rather than violence?

I'm not saying Naruto's plans aren't towards peace. But it's clear that Naruto doesn't plan for the villages and nations to become one nation, as he still has the dream of becoming Hokage. Naruto's plans aren't unification, but alliance, and alliances can be broken easily. Naruto is basing his ideals off of ideals that led to damage and failure in the past. It's reasonable to assume that Sasuke's plans are the opposite.

I love how you people will say "What if this, what if that" because you don't fully know Naruto's ideals, but you'll say "Nah it's def evil" when you have no idea what Sasuke's ideals are in the slightest other than change.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

I'm not saying Naruto's plans aren't towards peace. But it's clear that Naruto doesn't plan for the villages and nations to become one nation, as he still has the dream of becoming Hokage. Naruto's plans aren't unification, but alliance, and alliances can be broken easily. Naruto is basing his ideals off of ideals that led to damage and failure in the past. It's reasonable to assume that Sasuke's plans are the opposite.

I love how you people will say "What if this, what if that" because you don't fully know Naruto's ideals, but you'll say "Nah it's def evil" when you have no idea what Sasuke's ideals are in the slightest other than change.

And you don't know Sasuke's ideals. For someone that clearly is willing to kill those with differing opinions, admits that he doesn't care if the weak die, and doesn't care for the opinions of those he plans to rule, do you truly believe he would be benevolent? Do you truly believe he would instill other leaders? Knowing Sasuke's history, that's extremely naive. I do know Sasuke's history, and I do now how he thinks, I also know he's perfectly willing to kill to get whatever he wants, based on this, I doubt his plans are all that benevolent and good.

 

[Punk Hazard]

And you don't know Sasuke's ideals. For someone that clearly is willing to kill those with differing opinions, admits that he doesn't care if the weak die, and doesn't care for the opinions of those he plans to rule, do you truly believe he would be benevolent? Do you truly believe he would instill other leaders? Knowing Sasuke's history, that's extremely naive. I do know Sasuke's history, and I do now how he thinks, I also know he's perfectly willing to kill to get whatever he wants, based on this, I doubt his plans are all that benevolent and good.

Yes, I don't know Sasuke's ideals, but they are going to be completely different than the ones before that didn't work, so it's worth a try.

Sasuke never said he wanted to be the leader. And he never expressed not caring if the weak die. If he didn't, why would he be trying to fix the world? Why would he be trying to save those in IT? Why would he warn Kakashi and Sakura to avoid direct confrontations with Kaguya since it would mean their death? He never said he doesn't care for the opinions of others, he doesn't care for what others think of him as a person. If you think he's a douche, but you're striving for what he perceives as right, then you're good in his book, you just won't be friends.

And before you attempt to take that line out of context, yes, that means if you're going for what's against Sasuke's ideals, that does make you an enemy. That's how EVERYTHING works. If you're on another side, if you're in my way, I'll attempt to remove you. That's what the Kages and Naruto are doing to Sasuke, but I don't see threads like "Does Naruto feel bad for trying to stop the change that could fix the world?" I don't see threads like "Does Naruto feel bad for stopping Kaguya's ideals since hers were opposite by sealing her?"

You're all hypocrites.