Does Kisame Wreck Classic Gokage? (Individually)

DrProof · Oct 7, 2016

RedRobin said:
So he didnt absorb Mei's justu or Ay's lightning armor, that doesnt mean he cant.

If you don't know how to back track to FT, and my owns post in regards to this. I can't help you. I'm not repeating all of it again.

RedRobin · Oct 7, 2016

DrProof said:
If you don't know how to back track to FT, and my owns post in regards to this. I can't help you. I'm not repeating all of it again.

Not talking about the gokage combo but when Mei and Ay first attack him. You said him not absorbing the chakra in Gaara's sand means he cant but I gave you two situations where he could have absorbed two justus but didnt.

Draegod · Oct 7, 2016

KidGamer65 said:
Ay can only win if the distance is extremely favorable for him. Gaara probably wins. The rest lose.

Glad to see you changed your mind from "stands no chance" to depending on the distance!

OT: Loses to gaara, Aye (50/50), onoki, and Danzo

RedRobin · Oct 7, 2016

But Ay really stands no chance though. At every point he comes in samehada absorbs the lighting armor and reduces the attacks to regular attacks which will hurt kisame but with Samehada pulling bijuu size chakra at every point Kisame heals. Rinse and repeat no?

DrProof · Oct 7, 2016

Haizaki said:
-Addressed everything. Read quotes below they are all yours-

Honestly Evani. I laughed. A lot. Sorry to tell you, but you heavily underrated Gaara. I hate that, a lot.

Kisame can heal heavy damages caused as long as he has Samehada here with him. As long as he can do this, Gaara's attacks are almost useless. Dude withstood and healed his chest being opened by V2 B.

Irrelevant. It's been proven ITT that Gaara's sand cannot have its chakra taken away. No chakra = no healing. Kisame was only capable of healing due to Samehada having extra chakra (Killer B's) in order to do so.

Forbidden Technique said:
Understand the situation and the text. Mei was saying if Madara wanted to counter the sand, then he would have to cancel Preta Path that was being used to absorb the Raiton/Suiton combo. However, if Madara stopped using Preta Path in order to counter the sand, he would get hit by the combo and immobilized. The Gokage devised a plan specifically to counter Preta Path.

That scan doesn't prove anything. Notice how Gaara wasn't shown to be shocked and stating anything about Madara absorbing his sand. He could of simply just let go of Madara as the FRS hit. So that isn't factual evidence, my scan is.

TRE MERCER said:
Your right i concede.

Refuted.

GSB eats chakra and gets stronger. Gaara would most likely use sand attacks to block Kisame's attacks especially with no intel here. Intel or not, this is another attack that can eat through Gaara's large sand attacks which makes it becomes stronger. Not an issue.

Same as above. Gaara's sand chakra cannot be absorbed/eaten (GSB siphons chakra to gain larger as you said). Gaara using his sand to block GSB is in explicitly possible due to Earth > Water.

You must be registered for see images

Not to mention, Gaara would already be in the skies before Kisame attacked. As well would have already formulate multiple tactics/assaulted with multiple tactics before Kisame got off any type of action.

Refuted.

A thousand sharks is quite large, what would Gaara do to effectively eliminate all the shark at once?
You must be registered for see links
when Kisame has water clones that replicate attacks he can use. This is a problem for Gaara.

No idea why you're talking about 1,000 feeding sharks :lol. Literally this jutsu isn't touching Gaara. Dudes in the air, but if you want a counter to it.

You must be registered for see images

vs

You must be registered for see images

:lol Pt.1 Gaara > Kisame in mass techniques. :lol Shame.

Note, that was a Pt.1 Gaara. Do I really need to say more?
Note, that took hardly any chakra, seeing as he continued to push on vs Kimimaro without reserve.
Note, I emphasize again, this was a Pt.1 Gaara. Imagine what a Pt.2 Gaara can do.
Note, Earth > Water.

Refuted.

-Let's not forget Kisame's reaction speed. Might Gai who's incredibly fast got reacted to with the Water prison which is difficult to penetrate
You must be registered for see links
-- another option of defense for Kisame.

This doesn't mean shit vs Gaara. No idea why you mentioned this. AoE techniques > Speed. Seen many times in Minato/Raikage debates giving Gaara the win.

Refuted.

____________

I don't agree with this Mei/Gaara point. Water is naturally weak against lightning and the full effect of water is subdued when lightning is involved. Check the bottom panel here and read the words
You must be registered for see links
- However, when used as a collaboration, water can work alongside lightning
You must be registered for see links
and like Mei and Ay showed. Gaara's sand was mixed in the water as a collaboration while it was functioning with Ay's lightning but when Gaara's sand was faced against water, we saw exactly what happened
You must be registered for see links
and only God knows the explanation one would give when the Jutsu here is explained by Kabuto in the bottom right
You must be registered for see links
so your "Gengetsu" point is of no use here when it's the hydrification technique from the Hozuki's(Which Kabuto had to alter since it turn into water) he evidently used there, that was undoubtedly what water did. Turning it straight into mud..I really wonder what the explanation here would be.

You don't have to agree with Gaara's sand being manipulated with Mei's water, and Ay's lightning :lol, because it's fact. Lightning doesn't > Water, lightning can simply be used as a conductor. Earth > Water. Don't twist the nature weakness table.

Secondly, no it wasn't "just water", and no the name he mentioned there was Suigetsu, not Gengetsu. Gengetsu's body is unique in the fact that his body structure harbors a liquid substance harboring the properties of oily-water, while Hozuki merely have the basic hydrafication (turning into plain water). Yes Kabuto altered the Hozuki ability to his water-based snakes rather than just water.

Refuted.
____

Kisame reacted to the likes of V2 B and with him being able to flood the environment. Attacking with sand from underneath won't be happening. Attacking his hands and feet to restrict his feet would be diffculty considering his physical strength. Kimmimaro alone pulled out of sand coffin
You must be registered for see links
and Kisame physical prowess is immense when you read Yamato's words the bottom right
You must be registered for see links
and that's ignoring the fact that he was weakened by Gai's Hirudora and was in pain after just biting his own tongue. Let's not ignore the fact that sand binding coffin is a chakra infused sand attack and Samehada absorbs six tails worth of chakra at once
You must be registered for see links
which further makes it easier for Kisame to break through as the chakra easily makes the sand much stronger but then gets absorbed once it makes contact with Kisame.

Ok. No. First off Kisame's physical strength, will not allow him to break out of Gaara's sand, don't even spout nonsense like that. The only reason as to why Kimimaro was able free himself from was because he created a layer of bone underneath his skin, along with his passive regeneration (as seen with the blood splatter when Gaara initially used the technique). The bone layer allowed Kimimaro to then take advantage of A. It's durability, and B. His physical strength.

Bone layer:

You must be registered for see images

Regeneration:

This spoil is for the OGs that remember RedRobin arguing that Kimimaro doesn't have passive self-regeneration, when everyone agreed he does. #TriggeringPurposesOnly

Icelerate said:
It is regeneration.

RedRobin said:
Ok yes I'm wrong.

DrProof said:
Key
This is the key so that you may follow the wording within this thread:

Saisei no Jutsu = Regeneration (Romaji interpretation/Passive Self-Healing)

Shikotsumyaku = Dead Bone Pulse (Kimimaro's Kekkei Genkai)

The Case Of Healing Without Hand Seals

The first requirement to become noteworthy is Self-Healing without Hand Seals, something only very few (less than four I believe) can accomplish. This alone puts any Shinobi capable of Self-Healing via no Hand Seals around the Top 5 Medical/Healing Shinobi.

Hashirama/Tsunade both possess the capability of Self-Healing without Hand Seals:

You must be registered for see images

Kabuto Yakushi as well possesses the capaibilities to regenerate without Hand Seals via focusing chakra into the predicted spot targeted by the enemies technique, which on contact begins healing immediately:

You must be registered for see images

Kimimaro Kaguya also possesses the capability to regenerate without Hand Seals passively (meaning no previous technique has to be activated, as well Kimimaro doesn't have to directly focus on regenerating; it comes naturally):

You must be registered for see images

Kimimaro seemingly possesses Requirement #1: Self-Healing Without Hand Seals, so I'll now move on to Requirement #2.

The Case Of Chakra Depletion/Hayflick Limit

Chakra depletion is by far one of the greatest disadvantages of Self-Healing.
Base Kabuto possesses his own taxing Self-Healing Technique; In'yu Shometsu:

You must be registered for see images

Tsunade's case is quite different as she possesses both requirements, the downfall of her technique however, is the Hayflick Limit; the number of times a cell can split into a number of divisions:

You must be registered for see images

This is a great disadvantage toward Tsunade herself as the ultimate conclusion is death. Not only that, but the limit (time wise), in which she can use this Self-Healing Technique isn't lengthy at all, noticing the side effects soon after activation:

You must be registered for see images

Kimimaro possesses both requirements; possessing Senju/Biju/Huge chakra levels (he took on thousands of KN Clones, Drunk Lee, and Gaara all while being sick, and on the verge of death; this distinctively shows his huge chakra levels) , as well having a Saisei no Jutsu in which requires little, to no chakra to Self-Heal himself.

You must be registered for see images

The way I've come to the conclusion that Kimimaro's Self-Healing isn't chakra taxing as Tsunade/Kabuto's Saisei no Jutsu are is due to the innate capability to continue passively regenerating while Orochimaru's Juinjutsu was active:

The seal forcefully absorbs a user's chakra while giving Orochimaru's own senjutsu chakra into the user's body in return, granting enhancements comparable to those of Sage Mode. The user must also possess an above-average chakra capacity in order to wield the cursed seal's power. The key differences between the sage mode and a cursed seal are that the latter's users have no control over natural energy, thus senjutsu chakra in itself. The forced transformation seemingly eats away at the user's chakra to sustain its state, as Anko noted, with possibly fatal consequences.

With Kimimaro fulfilling Requirements #1, and #2 I'll move on to the feats, which put Kimimaro above Self-Healing Users such as; Hashirama, Tsunade, and Base Kabuto.

The Case Of Kimimaro's Superiority Within Self-Healing

This is what puts Kimimaro above Hashirama, Tsunade, and Base Kabuto when referring to Self-Healing; added with the facts that Kimimaro can passively Regenerate without Hand Seals, as well having huge chakra levels, and a less taxing Saisei no Jutsu. Kimimaro is the superior in Self-Healing due to:

You must be registered for see images

Kimimaro's Kekkei Genkai allows him to control not only the bones within his body, but allows him to control the reforming of destroyed cells. This is similar to that of Tsunade's technique, but without the taxing death toll:

You must be registered for see images

However, it's not only the fact that Kimimaro possesses the capabilities to control his cellular reproduction, but the speed in which he can create his bones/cells. Many Self-Healing Users claim their Saisei no Jutsu are "Instant" (when I say instant I mean that the injury is healed that very second it is caused) however, it is often never shown. Tsunade is the only Shinobi in which has shown near "Instant" healing via the use of Byakugo no Jutsu:

You must be registered for see images

The flaw within Byakugo no Jutsu is that it still has the disadvantage causing death to the user if used for a length period, similar to Tsunade's Sozo Saisei; The Hayflick Limit:

You must be registered for see images

Anyways, back to Kimimaro. Kimimaro is the only Self-Healer in which has shown the capability to regenerate instantaneously from an injury/causality:

You must be registered for see images

Kimimaro in the previously shown panel is seen removing his spine, this is a crucial sign in which shows he can regenerate instantaneously. To realize why this is, one must know what the spine's role is within the human body:

The spinal cord is made up of millions of nerve cells that send projections up and down the cord and out into other parts of the body. The information that allows us to sit, run, go to the toilet and breathe travels along these projections, called nerves.

When the spinal cord is injured, the initial trauma causes cell damage and destruction, and triggers a cascade of events that spread around the injury site affecting a number of different types of cells. Axons are crushed and torn, and oligonucleotide, the nerve cells that make up the insulating myelitis sheath around axons, begin to die. Exposed axons degenerate, the connection between neurons is disrupted and the flow of information between the brain and the spinal cord is blocked.

The body cannot replace cells lost when the spinal cord is injured, and its function becomes impaired permanently. Patients may end up with severe movement and sensation disabilities. They will generally be paralyzed and without sensation from the level of the injury downwards.

Click to expand...

Pay heavy attention to every underlined portion of the quote previously given; more so "The body cannot replace cells lost when the spinal cord is injured, and its function becomes impaired permanently.". This backs up the statement of which Kimimaro iterated "he can control the reformation of his destroyed cells".

To furthermore prove Kimimaro's regeneration was instant in the case of replacing his spine, if his spine wasn't replaced once it came out of placement when he pulled it out, he would have become crippled, and would have fallen from his standing stature; the body is able to stand erect due to the spinal cord.

You must be registered for see images

Kimimaro's durability >> Kisames. Kimimaro was the perfect opponent to fight off against a Pt.1 Gaara, because both characters were capable of controlling the density of their techniques: Gaara is capable of controlling the density/force exerted when using Sand Burial/Sand Coffin along with other crushing techniques, while Kimimaro is capable of modifying the density of his bones thanks to his KKG.

Kisame being caught within the sand is a simple, and easy task, but I'll leave that to the end. Just know that once Kisame has either his legs, or arms, or any other body part restricted by Gaara's sand it's game over.

You must be registered for see images

Literally, do you understand how much pressure you have to exert to liquefy a body? And Gaara's sand has only grown stronger. With Gaara's execution speed, and the sheer force/pressure Gaara can exert with his sand, Kisame with the first grip of sand on any of his body parts either gets fatal wounded (if hands or legs) or dies (if chest/head/stomach/waist). Don't even argue that Kisame is more durable than the pressure Gaara can exude. Just don't.

Refuted.
_____

LOL at Gaara already being meters above the air before Kisame create clones out a large body of water or even create a large water dome in 2 panels
You must be registered for see links
..What even makes this sound funny is the fact that it's manga intel here so just riding upwards with his sand is not a good joke. Meanwhile if Gaara gets caught in the dome it's literally over. Jutsu spitting the water out quickly took B off his feet in that scan. There are also clones here to serve multiple purpose of throwing their own attacks and if you think Gaara is the only one that can go air bound, look at the middle left panel and tell me what's happening from one point to another point across the island?
You must be registered for see links
..The water prison enabled flight is what I can conclude.

More like lol @ Gaara not being meters within the air, before Kisame creates clones. You obviously don't know how fast Gaara's execution speed is.

DrProof said:
Gaara's Speed

Gaara's many talents as a character is his speed, while not praised within the category, possessing a "3" in the Third Databook (note that speed in the Third Databook is regarding foot-speed), Gaara has beyond shown the capability to far out speed most of the speedsters we see within the Manga.

Past Speed Feats (Before Pt.2)

✗.
You must be registered for see links
.
You must be registered for see links

✗. Face to face with a bone impalement, Gaara nearly instantaneously formed a cloud of Sand underneath himself, and Lee before Kimimaro could take their lives. [
You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links
]. Gaara even goes on to say it was an "easy" task, damn Gaara performing near-death saving moments is an easy task? That potential.

Present Speed Feats (Pt.2)

✗. Sand-Shunshin to appear right before Deidara, while Deidara was literally looking in that direction (appeared simultaneously when Deidara's head tilted downward while jumping off his Clay Bird) [
You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links
].
✗. Gaara was able to quickly, and easily
You must be registered for see links
from Deidara's explosion, then transition --
You must be registered for see links
, with a monstrous amount of sand.
✗.
You must be registered for see links
(Kishi indirectly implying Gaara > Onoki in flight speed).
✗. Gaara also has shown the capabilities of performing
You must be registered for see links
able to fool the Nidaime Mizukage

You should understand now, Gaara's speed seemingly increased rapidly over the course of Pt.1, and Pt.2. If you even doubt/argue against Gaara's exeuction/reaction speed you're crazy.

You're right, it does sound funny that you think Gaara wouldn't be aerial when that's his fighting style, the only reason he didn't go aerial vs Madara when he was with Kakashi & co. was so that he could be included into the plan to attack Madara. In every other case Gaara in the war-arc has been aerial. Real good joke here though Evani.

You mentioning the creation of clones is pointless. Gaara doesn't have to worry about simple water clones while he's in the air, happily sending out attacks to make them disperse at the flick of the wrist. You mentioning clones is a waste of space honestly, a waste of space, and a waste of chakra Kisame could be preserving.

Flight? No. Water Dome allows anyone trapped inside to swim to the top yes, but why are you even talking about this? Gaara would be meters above the dome of water, safe, and secure from any type of branch outs in regards to popping up at the top of the dome in futile efforts to hit Gaara with mindless suiton.

Refuted.

___

How about the fact that you need to realize that it Samehada can tie itself to Kisame strengthening the grip if it wishes in a similar manner like in the middle here with B
You must be registered for see links
and there's the fact that Kisame can just merge making that difficult. End of the day, clones and large techniques that can counter the sand. Water can make it wet like I showed and Kisame can continually absorb his sand chakra, break through if Gaara tries to restrain him and further have his clones counteract forcing Gaara on the defensive since they all can absorb chakra. If the Dome comes out, Gaara loses especially with no intel on this. Random flight isn't happening when he doesn't know what's coming and with multiple distractions, anticipating this is difficult.

All of this has been countered above:

Gaara's chakra cannot be absorbed - Preta Path couldn't do it - Samehada cannot do it - GSB cannot do it.
Clones, and water jutsu do nothing - They cannot reach Gaara - Doton > Suiton; Gaara's sand is simply manipulated flying Earth.
Water makes the sand wet, because sand absorbs the water through its small pores. Wet sand can still be manipulated as seen here:

You must be registered for see images

The sand was inside of the water dragon, and after clashing with Madara attempting to absorb the combined techniques, you can clearly see the water, and lightning interacting with Gaara's sand with no signs of slowing/change in color (when sand gets damp/soaked it turns this color):

You must be registered for see images

But when sand is wet it doesn't leak, it simply falls apart. In that photo, the sand was leaking, showcasing Gengetsu's oily-water composition. So why didn't Gaara's sand become hindered by Mei's water? It's because Doton > Water simple. Kishi doesn't take into factor that logically water would soak up the sand, causing it to crumble. Nope. In this manga, Kishi strictly adheres to the chakra weakness chart:

You must be registered for see images

Here's the blown up version:

You must be registered for see images

What you're seeing in the above image is water dripping from Gaara's sand, not being absorbed, simply dripping. This infers two things: A. Kishi doesn't take into factor that water would soak into Gaara's sand. B. Kishi actually does factor in that water would seep into Gaara's sand. But Gaara is able to compact his sand, closing the pores unabling water from getting into his sand, and allowing Gaara to maneuver his sand through water/against water/conjoined with water.

That was bait (but the latter still stands). Kishimoto actually does take notice of real world attributes, seeing as how Gengetsu's oily-water composition seeped into Gaara's sand due to its properties, and he does rely on the elemental weakness chart.

The simple explanation is: Earth > Water & Gaara is able to compact his sand even further, closing the pores so liquid/gas cannot enter in turn allowing it to repel any wet substances. Gaara only learned how to do this after his fight with Gengetsu, seeing as how Gaara is learning new things every appearance. #IntelligenceFeat #DatGaara.

___

Now that that's all cleared up. I'll go on to talk about why, and how Kisame actually takes a quick, and big:

You must be registered for see images

This fight is manga intel, Kisame had to be inform Gaara was Shukaku's jin, knowing he controls sand, and Gaara was obviously debriefed of Kisame seeing as he said this:

You must be registered for see images

Obviously the kages would've debriefed him on Kisame.

Back on track. So, at the start of the match Gaara could easily OHKO Kisame. By simply using the same tactic he did vs Kimimaro. Distraction up top, sand grab @ the bottom + sand burial/sand coffin his legs. NO LEGS. Kisame would have no legs, you can't do anything without any legs. His legs would be liquefied, just like he did vs the ninja in the forest of death & just like he would've done to Kimimaro. There is no arguing against this.

Inb4 Subterranean Voyage.

You must be registered for see images

:lol Kisame basically makes the sand for Gaara to use, so that he can crush him easier than before. Hilarious af in its own right. GG Kisame, swim around underground creating more sand for Gaara to use. That's a good sand shark, good boy, now die. :lol

Glad you didn't attempt to use this suicide technique.

Any who. Like I said this will take out Kisame tbh.

Tactic I:

You must be registered for see images

GG, liquefied Kisame legs/arms/whole body.

Btw, countering water dome is easy af. :lol

Look at the size of the Sand tsunami a Pt.1 Gaara created in mere SECONDS:

You must be registered for see images

Here's the anime depiction of the sand tsunami:

You must be registered for see images

And it continues to stretch further! If we mass all that up its equal or bigger than Kisame's water dome. No one can deny that. Oh, and must I iterate again that that was Pt.1 Gaara? :lol!

You must be registered for see images

Watch the damn video actually starts at 8:50 (f*ck Gaara is such a savage, no wonder he's my favorite | Kimimaro be like: "That's the last time I'll be caught in your sand - Gaara's reaction :lol :lol :lol #FOH with that bullshit #TerrainChangerSinceAge13):

Bruh! That shit stretches farther than what it is showing, it's way wider than Kisame's water dome. Water Dome vs Sand Tsunami :lol Tsunami wins every time.

All Gaara has to do is engulf Kisame's WD with all that sand, and do a giant sand coffin, like he did giant sand funeral, and it's GG. Not that it would even escalate that damn far, because like I said Gaara's execution speed, and reaction time to things now is so f*cking fast it's stupid.

This is adult Gaara doing that, but without putting his chakra into the ground :lol

You must be registered for see images

Bruh I had to murder your post because you were spouting BS on my boy Gaara. Sorry not sorry! :lmao:

You had to learn today.

You must be registered for see images

Take this L gracefully Evani.

Jinrou · Oct 7, 2016

DrProof said:
Honestly Evani. I laughed. A lot. Sorry to tell you, but you heavily underrated Gaara. I hate that, a lot.

Irrelevant. It's been proven ITT that Gaara's sand cannot have its chakra taken away. No chakra = no healing. Kisame was only capable of healing due to Samehada having extra chakra (Killer B's) in order to do so.

Refuted.

Same as above. Gaara's sand chakra cannot be absorbed/eaten (GSB siphons chakra to gain larger as you said). Gaara using his sand to block GSB is in explicitly possible due to Earth > Water.

You must be registered for see images

Not to mention, Gaara would already be in the skies before Kisame attacked. As well would have already formulate multiple tactics/assaulted with multiple tactics before Kisame got off any type of action.

Refuted.

No idea why you're talking about 1,000 feeding sharks :lol. Literally this jutsu isn't touching Gaara. Dudes in the air, but if you want a counter to it.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

vs

You must be registered for see images

:lol Pt.1 Gaara > Kisame in mass techniques. :lol Shame.

Note, that was a Pt.1 Gaara. Do I really need to say more?
Note, that took hardly any chakra, seeing as he continued to push on vs Kimimaro without reserve.
Note, I emphasize again, this was a Pt.1 Gaara. Imagine what a Pt.2 Gaara can do.
Note, Earth > Water.

Refuted.

This doesn't mean shit vs Gaara. No idea why you mentioned this. AoE techniques > Speed. Seen many times in Minato/Raikage debates giving Gaara the win.

Refuted.

____________

You don't have to agree with Gaara's sand being manipulated with Mei's water, and Ay's lightning :lol, because it's fact. Lightning doesn't > Water, lightning can simply be used as a conductor. Earth > Water. Don't twist the nature weakness table.

Secondly, no it wasn't "just water", and no the name he mentioned there was Suigetsu, not Gengetsu. Gengetsu's body is unique in the fact that his body structure harbors a liquid substance harboring the properties of oily-water, while Hozuki merely have the basic hydrafication (turning into plain water). Yes Kabuto altered the Hozuki ability to his water-based snakes rather than just water.

Refuted.
____

Ok. No. First off Kisame's physical strength, will not allow him to break out of Gaara's sand, don't even spout nonsense like that. The only reason as to why Kimimaro was able free himself from was because he created a layer of bone underneath his skin, along with his passive regeneration (as seen with the blood splatter when Gaara initially used the technique). The bone layer allowed Kimimaro to then take advantage of A. It's durability, and B. His physical strength.

Bone layer:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Regeneration:

This spoil is for the OGs that remember RedRobin arguing that Kimimaro doesn't have passive self-regeneration, when everyone agreed he does. #TriggeringPurposesOnly

Kimimaro's durability >> Kisames. Kimimaro was the perfect opponent to fight off against a Pt.1 Gaara, because both characters were capable of controlling the density of their techniques: Gaara is capable of controlling the density/force exerted when using Sand Burial/Sand Coffin along with other crushing techniques, while Kimimaro is capable of modifying the density of his bones thanks to his KKG.

Kisame being caught within the sand is a simple, and easy task, but I'll leave that to the end. Just know that once Kisame has either his legs, or arms, or any other body part restricted by Gaara's sand it's game over.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Literally, do you understand how much pressure you have to exert to liquefy a body? And Gaara's sand has only grown stronger. With Gaara's execution speed, and the sheer force/pressure Gaara can exert with his sand, Kisame with the first grip of sand on any of his body parts either gets fatal wounded (if hands or legs) or dies (if chest/head/stomach/waist). Don't even argue that Kisame is more durable than the pressure Gaara can exude. Just don't.

Refuted.
_____

More like lol @ Gaara not being meters within the air, before Kisame creates clones. You obviously don't know how fast Gaara's execution speed is.

You're right, it does sound funny that you think Gaara wouldn't be aerial when that's his fighting style, the only reason he didn't go aerial vs Madara when he was with Kakashi & co. was so that he could be included into the plan to attack Madara. In every other case Gaara in the war-arc has been aerial. Real good joke here though Evani.

You mentioning the creation of clones is pointless. Gaara doesn't have to worry about simple water clones while he's in the air, happily sending out attacks to make them disperse at the flick of the wrist. You mentioning clones is a waste of space honestly, a waste of space, and a waste of chakra Kisame could be preserving.

Flight? No. Water Dome allows anyone trapped inside to swim to the top yes, but why are you even talking about this? Gaara would be meters above the dome of water, safe, and secure from any type of branch outs in regards to popping up at the top of the dome in futile efforts to hit Gaara with mindless suiton.

Refuted.

___

All of this has been countered above:

Gaara's chakra cannot be absorbed - Preta Path couldn't do it - Samehada cannot do it - GSB cannot do it.
Clones, and water jutsu do nothing - They cannot reach Gaara - Doton > Suiton; Gaara's sand is simply manipulated flying Earth.
Water makes the sand wet, because sand absorbs the water through its small pores. Wet sand can still be manipulated as seen here:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The sand was inside of the water dragon, and after clashing with Madara attempting to absorb the combined techniques, you can clearly see the water, and lightning interacting with Gaara's sand with no signs of slowing/change in color (when sand gets damp/soaked it turns this color):

You must be registered for see images

But when sand is wet it doesn't leak, it simply falls apart. In that photo, the sand was leaking, showcasing Gengetsu's oily-water composition. So why didn't Gaara's sand become hindered by Mei's water? It's because Doton > Water simple. Kishi doesn't take into factor that logically water would soak up the sand, causing it to crumble. Nope. In this manga, Kishi strictly adheres to the chakra weakness chart:

You must be registered for see images

Here's the blown up version:

You must be registered for see images

What you're seeing in the above image is water dripping from Gaara's sand, not being absorbed, simply dripping. This infers two things: A. Kishi doesn't take into factor that water would soak into Gaara's sand. B. Kishi actually does factor in that water would seep into Gaara's sand. But Gaara is able to compact his sand, closing the pores unabling water from getting into his sand, and allowing Gaara to maneuver his sand through water/against water/conjoined with water.

That was bait (but the latter still stands). Kishimoto actually does take notice of real world attributes, seeing as how Gengetsu's oily-water composition seeped into Gaara's sand due to its properties, and he does rely on the elemental weakness chart.

The simple explanation is: Earth > Water & Gaara is able to compact his sand even further, closing the pores so liquid/gas cannot enter in turn allowing it to repel any wet substances. Gaara only learned how to do this after his fight with Gengetsu, seeing as how Gaara is learning new things every appearance. #IntelligenceFeat #DatGaara.

___

Now that that's all cleared up. I'll go on to talk about why, and how Kisame actually takes a quick, and big:

You must be registered for see images

This fight is manga intel, Kisame had to be inform Gaara was Shukaku's jin, knowing he controls sand, and Gaara was obviously debriefed of Kisame seeing as he said this:

You must be registered for see images

Obviously the kages would've debriefed him on Kisame.

Back on track. So, at the start of the match Gaara could easily OHKO Kisame. By simply using the same tactic he did vs Kimimaro. Distraction up top, sand grab @ the bottom + sand burial/sand coffin his legs. NO LEGS. Kisame would have no legs, you can't do anything without any legs. His legs would be liquefied, just like he did vs the ninja in the forest of death & just like he would've done to Kimimaro. There is no arguing against this.

Inb4 Subterranean Voyage.

You must be registered for see images

:lol Kisame basically makes the sand for Gaara to use, so that he can crush him easier than before. Hilarious af in its own right. GG Kisame, swim around underground creating more sand for Gaara to use. That's a good sand shark, good boy, now die. :lol

Glad you didn't attempt to use this suicide technique.

Any who. Like I said this will take out Kisame tbh.

Tactic I:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

GG, liquefied Kisame legs/arms/whole body.

Btw, countering water dome is easy af. :lol

Look at the size of the Sand tsunami a Pt.1 Gaara created in mere SECONDS:

You must be registered for see images

Here's the anime depiction of the sand tsunami:

You must be registered for see images

And it continues to stretch further! If we mass all that up its equal or bigger than Kisame's water dome. No one can deny that. Oh, and must I iterate again that that was Pt.1 Gaara? :lol!

You must be registered for see images

Watch the damn video actually starts at 8:50 (f*ck Gaara is such a savage, no wonder he's my favorite | Kimimaro be like: "That's the last time I'll be caught in your sand - Gaara's reaction :lol :lol :lol #FOH with that bullshit #TerrainChangerSinceAge13):

Bruh! That shit stretches farther than what it is showing, it's way wider than Kisame's water dome. Water Dome vs Sand Tsunami :lol Tsunami wins every time.

All Gaara has to do is engulf Kisame's WD with all that sand, and do a giant sand coffin, like he did giant sand funeral, and it's GG. Not that it would even escalate that damn far, because like I said Gaara's execution speed, and reaction time to things now is so f*cking fast it's stupid.

This is adult Gaara doing that, but without putting his chakra into the ground :lol

You must be registered for see images

Bruh I had to murder your post because you were spouting BS on my boy Gaara. Sorry not sorry! You had to learn today.

You must be registered for see images

Take this L gracefully Evani.

No. I really I'm not sure I've seen a more beautiful post. Almost brought tears to my eyes. :score:

#Intelligencefeat xD Ty and Gaara solos.

That said though, I just wanted to point out a fact everyone seems to be missing. Gaara can control his chakra infused sand (obviously) but he can also control regular sand aka non chakra infused sand. Even if the chakra gets absorbed, saying the sand's just falls off is wrong as Gaara as manipulated regular sand many times in the manga.

- Deidara explains the sand in his gourd is

You must be registered for see links

and then we have a scan of gourd less Gaara

You must be registered for see links

- His sand tsunamis aren't chakra infused too. I say this because of the aerial sand bulwark Gaara used to protect Suna from Deidara. The DB states Gaara increases it's defensive properties by flowing chakra through it and we saw the outcome of Gaara flowing his chakra through a construct made entirely from large amounts of sand.

You must be registered for see links

- He simply manipulates sand out of

You must be registered for see links

seriously DatGaara.

- And then his Desert layered imperial funeral is chakraless

You must be registered for see images

If it weren't, it would definitely have been mentioned.

Honourable mention include the start of his fight against Deidara where he raises sand from the desert without even looking in its direction.

Gaara's gourd sand is chakra infused to make it faster and stronger. Gaara still very much holds the ability to manipulate regular sand.

Edit: Didn't realize Deidara already makes it clear he can manipulate regular sand with his statement in the bottom panel

You must be registered for see images

DrProof · Oct 7, 2016

Jinrou said:
No. I really I'm not sure I've seen a more beautiful post. Almost brought tears to my eyes. #Intelligencefeat xD Ty and Gaara solos.

That said though, I just wanted to point out a fact everyone seems to be missing. Gaara can control his chakra infused sand (obviously) but he can also control regular sand aka non chakra infused sand. Even if the chakra gets absorbed, saying the sand's just falls off is wrong as Gaara as manipulated regular sand many times in the manga.

- Deidara explains the sand in his gourd is
You must be registered for see links
and then we have a scan of gourd less Gaara
You must be registered for see links

- His sand tsunamis aren't chakra infused too. I say this because of the aerial sand bulwark Gaara used to protect Suna from Deidara. The DB states Gaara increases it's defensive properties by flowing chakra through it and we saw the outcome of Gaara flowing his chakra through a construct made entirely from large amounts of sand.
You must be registered for see links

- He simply manipulates sand out of
You must be registered for see links
seriously DatGaara.

- And then his Desert layered imperial funeral is chakraless

You must be registered for see images

If it weren't, it would definitely have been mentioned.

Honourable mention include the start of his fight against Deidara where he raises sand from the desert without even looking in its direction.

Gaara's gourd sand is chakra infused to make it faster and stronger. Gaara still very much holds the ability to manipulate regular sand.

Edit: Didn't realize Deidara already makes it clear he can manipulate regular sand with his statement in the bottom panel

You must be registered for see images

Good additions man. I haven't even said half of the things Gaara can actually do on the offensive :lol Literally Gaara >> Kisame. I don't see how anyone could/would think otherwise. Kisame is an impressive character don't get me wrong. But a character like Gaara is just too versatile, too broken in his own right to be defeated here.

Haizaki · Oct 8, 2016

DrProof said:
Irrelevant. It's been proven ITT that Gaara's sand cannot have its chakra taken away. No chakra = no healing. Kisame was only capable of healing due to Samehada having extra chakra (Killer B's) in order to do so.

Refuted.

The sand is sand but infused with chakra. Absorbing the chakra is completely different

VIZ:

You must be registered for see links

Deidara " He always carries a set amount of chakra in his gourd...Into which he then pours an enormous amount of chakra.

Preta's point won't work here, sand is a material which without chakra won't be absorbed because it is not created from chakra. Preta absorbs techniques created from chakra. Gaara's sand is not created from it but has chakra inserted into it. Absorbing techniques created from chakra is completely different because without chakra, they can't remain or hold. Meanwhile, Gaara's sand doesn't need chakra to hold. It only uses chakra to become stronger and faster. Almost similar to how Preta can absorb chakra of individuals like Naruto but on the other hand, he cannot absorb Naruto himself. I put that similar in bold because people can easily twist this logic into something else.

Gaara gets the chakra in his sand absorbed and then it weakens enabling Kisame to easily break out. Madara couldn't absorb the sand but that's not to state he can't absorb the chakra in it. That alone is silly when the Manga has evidently shown chakra can easily be absorbed. The Jutsu was contained with sand that could not be absorbed.

Same as above. Gaara's sand chakra cannot be absorbed/eaten (GSB siphons chakra to gain larger as you said). Gaara using his sand to block GSB is in explicitly possible due to Earth > Water.

You must be registered for see images

Not to mention, Gaara would already be in the skies before Kisame attacked. As well would have already formulate multiple tactics/assaulted with multiple tactics before Kisame got off any type of action.

Refuted.

Gaara would be in skies before Kisame opts to attack especially with no intel is the biggest joke so far.

GSB can eat the sand and take its chakra

Sution Daikoudan no Jutsu

The shark's roar eats and shredded to pieces the enemy jutsu, while one's own power restores!!

A massive chakra bullet in the shape of a large shark, the Jutsu bursts towards the target it's aimed at. It has the ability to absorb the enemies chakra and change that into ones own power. The large shark stores the opponents chakra in it's belly, it's bottomless appetite is sated by it's fangs shredding the enemy to pieces

The opponent's and this jutsu clash, the chakra is eaten which results in a massive release

Then a release occurs. If GSB is feeding on the sand in a similar way to Hirudora(Though AT had no chakra) then yes it becomes stronger and it's release becomes stronger too since the Jutsu strength depends on what it is feeding on.

No idea why you're talking about 1,000 feeding sharks :lol. Literally this jutsu isn't touching Gaara. Dudes in the air, but if you want a counter to it.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

vs

You must be registered for see images

:lol Pt.1 Gaara > Kisame in mass techniques. :lol Shame.

Note, that was a Pt.1 Gaara. Do I really need to say more?
Note, that took hardly any chakra, seeing as he continued to push on vs Kimimaro without reserve.
Note, I emphasize again, this was a Pt.1 Gaara. Imagine what a Pt.2 Gaara can do.
Note, Earth > Water.

Refuted.

While you're at it, note that a near death Kimmimaro broke out of that. While you're at it, note that you have close to nothing to prove that the strength of that technique has gone up so high that the likes of Kisame who:

- His 30% clone physically overpowered the likes of Gai to an extent who stated "He had superhuman strength"..Take not that Gai punched a shinobi through a wall, has a 5 in strength and most likely would have broken a large boulder if not for the seal as he stated

You must be registered for see links

The Akatsuki were worried with the noise from that..Same person overpowered to an extent by a 30% Kisame clone who he noted had superhuman strength

- He broke out of the Wood stocks that were chakra enhanced shocking Yamato in an incredibly weak state from Hiruodora

- What makes this laughable is the fact that Kimmimaro has a 3 in strength not even close to Might Gai who has a 5. Let alone Kisame who has a 5 and overpowered that same Gai with a 30% clone.

- Gai is easily stronger than Kimmimaro. Gaara grew just a little within those chapters. Not to a ridiculously high level between when he fought Rock Lee and Kimmimaro. Recall that Gai without trying could simply wave Gaara's sand away in that same part 1

You must be registered for see links

Especially when Kisame can evade by entering water and even use his 1000 sharks as a collision. You're even forgetting the fact that he has clones. Water clones were stated to be endowed with the original user's abilities. Add more sharks which they can reproduce to the original's and Kisame would have an incredibly large amount that would be bigger than Gaara's.

This doesn't mean shit vs Gaara. No idea why you mentioned this. AoE techniques > Speed. Seen many times in Minato/Raikage debates giving Gaara the win.

Refuted.

I made reference to the fact that Kisame reaction speed with the water prison is great

You must be registered for see links

and the fact that Kisame can

- Heal
- Strong and Durable enough
- Has the defense of the water prison making attack harder to get through.

I see no reason why the impact of Gaara's attack won't be reduced.

You don't have to agree with Gaara's sand being manipulated with Mei's water, and Ay's lightning :lol, because it's fact. Lightning doesn't > Water, lightning can simply be used as a conductor. Earth > Water. Don't twist the nature weakness table.

Secondly, no it wasn't "just water", and no the name he mentioned there was Suigetsu, not Gengetsu. Gengetsu's body is unique in the fact that his body structure harbors a liquid substance harboring the properties of oily-water, while Hozuki merely have the basic hydrafication (turning into plain water). Yes Kabuto altered the Hozuki ability to his water-based snakes rather than just water.

Refuted.

While you keep saying about Earth>Water why don't you also address the fact that Lightning>Earth in which Gaara mixed his sand with both Lightning and Water. It's a collaboration.

Gengetsu is part of the Hozuki's clan which the technique comes from. Both Suigetsu and Gengetsu are a part. Because he can release oil and water from his body doesn't change the actual technique. Even though he has oil and water, his other technique Mizzudeppo from the DB4 states:

"The actual mechanics are simple, the body of the person liquifies. One takes aim with their finger tips and the water drop is shot like a bullet.". There's no oil in that even through he has to liquefy his whole body.

You can see that he uses oily slime for a fact here:

You must be registered for see images

And you can see that he used water alone here

You must be registered for see images

The color of the sand is one to notice when both are used. The SFX "shlop" not allowing the sand stick vs the SFX "Crumble" for the water when it drops.

Ok. No. First off Kisame's physical strength, will not allow him to break out of Gaara's sand, don't even spout nonsense like that. The only reason as to why Kimimaro was able free himself from was because he created a layer of bone underneath his skin, along with his passive regeneration (as seen with the blood splatter when Gaara initially used the technique). The bone layer allowed Kimimaro to then take advantage of A. It's durability, and B. His physical strength.

Bone layer:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Regeneration:

This spoil is for the OGs that remember RedRobin arguing that Kimimaro doesn't have passive self-regeneration, when everyone agreed he does. #TriggeringPurposesOnly

Kimimaro's durability >> Kisames. Kimimaro was the perfect opponent to fight off against a Pt.1 Gaara, because both characters were capable of controlling the density of their techniques: Gaara is capable of controlling the density/force exerted when using Sand Burial/Sand Coffin along with other crushing techniques, while Kimimaro is capable of modifying the density of his bones thanks to his KKG.

Kisame being caught within the sand is a simple, and easy task, but I'll leave that to the end. Just know that once Kisame has either his legs, or arms, or any other body part restricted by Gaara's sand it's game over.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Literally, do you understand how much pressure you have to exert to liquefy a body? And Gaara's sand has only grown stronger. With Gaara's execution speed, and the sheer force/pressure Gaara can exert with his sand, Kisame with the first grip of sand on any of his body parts either gets fatal wounded (if hands or legs) or dies (if chest/head/stomach/waist). Don't even argue that Kisame is more durable than the pressure Gaara can exude. Just don't.

Refuted.

Only if you realized how this sounds. Kisame for a fact is far more durable by feats. Kisame took a full V2 lariat with a bull face skeleton and survived it showing no pain. Mind you, Base B's lariat was stronger than that of V2 Ay who's physical strength if off the charts

You must be registered for see links

and V1 B's lariat did this much damage

You must be registered for see links

to his place of training. Lol @Kimmimaro being more durable. Kisame has quite some outstanding feats. I already disproved the notion of Kimmi being stronger lmao. Shouldn't be repeated when this dude doesn't have feats close to Kisame, isn't stronger than Base Gai alone. I already said:

"Gai is easily stronger than Kimmimaro. Gaara grew just a little within these chapters. Not to a ridiculously high level between when he fought Rock Lee and Kimmimaro. Recall that Gai without trying could simply wave Gaara's sand away in that same part 1

You must be registered for see links

"

Gaara grew but during these scenarios, Kimmi was near death. Gai only waved his sand..None who actually showed their prowess to the fullest. Kisame has DB stats on his side compared to Kimmi by far. Kisame's 30% clone overpowered Gai who said it had superhuman strength.(Not the real Kisame especially when Itachi said their strength was in proportion to the chakra given or so). Kisame here has durability and strength on his side. That's a no no.

Although I'm not entirely 50% sure if Kisame does increase his durability with Samehada which is debatable. If that's a fact, then your point gets worse.

More like lol @ Gaara not being meters within the air, before Kisame creates clones. You obviously don't know how fast Gaara's execution speed is.

You're right, it does sound funny that you think Gaara wouldn't be aerial when that's his fighting style, the only reason he didn't go aerial vs Madara when he was with Kakashi & co. was so that he could be included into the plan to attack Madara. In every other case Gaara in the war-arc has been aerial. Real good joke here though Evani.

You mentioning the creation of clones is pointless. Gaara doesn't have to worry about simple water clones while he's in the air, happily sending out attacks to make them disperse at the flick of the wrist. You mentioning clones is a waste of space honestly, a waste of space, and a waste of chakra Kisame could be preserving.

Flight? No. Water Dome allows anyone trapped inside to swim to the top yes, but why are you even talking about this? Gaara would be meters above the dome of water, safe, and secure from any type of branch outs in regards to popping up at the top of the dome in futile efforts to hit Gaara with mindless suiton.

Refuted.

- Sasuke said "Stealth" skills rivals Kakashi after he snuck upon Sasuke without having a clue

You must be registered for see links

..That's irrelevant here. This is most relevant in respect to infiltration. LOL you don't know what you're talking about clearly and Kisame with Samehada merged enables him to sense making this futile.

- Bone forest isn't really a strong feat to use when they develop gradually and when we had a full page before we saw what happened. It was already over when Gaara was above. It was off paneled and there's the fact that Bone forest which develops gradually had already covered the entire forest as soon as they were back on panel

You must be registered for see links

- Gaara's feat against Deidara is obviously a good one but he was already watching Deidara and knew the bird wasn't from the village like he said. He's good at stealth and longed prepared for Deidara as he spotted him

You must be registered for see links

- That scan doesn't necessarily imply that Gaara sand is faster than Onoki. Look at the scan, Onoki catches the usual back pain and screams. Gaara said "I'll go, my sand can carry me there quickly" right after that and not before Onoki was suggested..Then Onoki after shouted back at him that he'll go. Nowhere does it imply that Gaara can get the quicker when Onoki just felt his back pain which was a drawback as usual. Gaara would have suggested he can go quicker before Onoki screamed of his back pain. Before that, even Tsunade recommended that he can get there quickly because he can fly. Ay had no objections and Gaara asked "Can you do this?"..No indication that he could get there quicker. What's crazy is how Deidara out-sped Gaara's sand and Onoki was even with him when it came to his flight movement.

- Then let's not forget Kisame's Shunsin once matching Itachi's like in the middle. Good speed feat

You must be registered for see links

10% Water Clones that can replicate the orignal's technique's aren't a waste of space and chakra for someone compared to a tailed beast. LOL. Oh and read what I said again, I said the water prison enabled flight to the shark and would do so if needed because there's absolutely no reason why that should happen. Don't argue something that was shown in the scan. That's irrational when we've seen it clearly.

All of this has been countered above:

Gaara's chakra cannot be absorbed - Preta Path couldn't do it - Samehada cannot do it - GSB cannot do it.
Clones, and water jutsu do nothing - They cannot reach Gaara - Doton > Suiton; Gaara's sand is simply manipulated flying Earth.
Water makes the sand wet, because sand absorbs the water through its small pores. Wet sand can still be manipulated as seen here:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The sand was inside of the water dragon, and after clashing with Madara attempting to absorb the combined techniques, you can clearly see the water, and lightning interacting with Gaara's sand with no signs of slowing/change in color (when sand gets damp/soaked it turns this color):

You must be registered for see images

But when sand is wet it doesn't leak, it simply falls apart. In that photo, the sand was leaking, showcasing Gengetsu's oily-water composition. So why didn't Gaara's sand become hindered by Mei's water? It's because Doton > Water simple. Kishi doesn't take into factor that logically water would soak up the sand, causing it to crumble. Nope. In this manga, Kishi strictly adheres to the chakra weakness chart:

You must be registered for see images

Here's the blown up version:

You must be registered for see images

What you're seeing in the above image is water dripping from Gaara's sand, not being absorbed, simply dripping. This infers two things: A. Kishi doesn't take into factor that water would soak into Gaara's sand. B. Kishi actually does factor in that water would seep into Gaara's sand. But Gaara is able to compact his sand, closing the pores unabling water from getting into his sand, and allowing Gaara to maneuver his sand through water/against water/conjoined with water.

- Countered the preta point.

- You seem to be confident about Gaara going up to ridiculous heights. Then you forget Kisame spits a massive amount of water which changes the ground level of the battlefield and pushes him upwards. Look at Gai merely opening the Gate showing how massive the water is

You must be registered for see links

and that's 30% but then we have the fact that multiple spitting from clones would increase the level. Matter of fact Kisame can add to the level if he decides to spit more. If you think Gaara would just stay up, then Kisame uses his own means to push up too. Then there's the fact I showed the prison enables him to get high in the air like in the middle

You must be registered for see links

- I stated that it was a collaboration because we've outright seen what water did to it when faced again it. Don't use Gengetsu's oily water composition because I showed what that itself does to the sand. Different from water. Lightning subdues the effect of water

You must be registered for see links

--Lightning could be used alongside water and Gaara's sand was mixed in this technique.

- Let's now state that Gaara controlled it wet(Even though what I just said comes into play), there's nothing suggesting that it regained it's usual strength while not wet. Water should weaken the effect of it without a doubt. Speed wise and strength wise.

You aren't making any sense with this point "So why didn't Gaara's sand become hindered by Mei's water? It's because Doton > Water simple." -- Using this logic would then imply that lightning should have in fact destroyed Gaara's sand because lightning was indeed a part of the technique and lightning is known to be superior to Earth(Read the bottom left as stated

You must be registered for see links

). Now let me ask you just like you asked me, why didn't Gaara's sand get destroyed? Simple lol. It was a collaboration.

That was bait (but the latter still stands). Kishimoto actually does take notice of real world attributes, seeing as how Gengetsu's oily-water composition seeped into Gaara's sand due to its properties, and he does rely on the elemental weakness chart.

Countered.

The simple explanation is: Earth > Water & Gaara is able to compact his sand even further, closing the pores so liquid/gas cannot enter in turn allowing it to repel any wet substances. Gaara only learned how to do this after his fight with Gengetsu, seeing as how Gaara is learning new things every appearance. #IntelligenceFeat #DatGaara.

Stop using this Earth> Water when I countered with Lightning> Earth and the bold, is a ridiculous assumption. I need proof of that...Using a collaboration doesn't mean a thing but at the same time, Gaara didn't all of a sudden learn how to counter lightning against Madara lmao.

This fight is manga intel, Kisame had to be inform Gaara was Shukaku's jin, knowing he controls sand, and Gaara was obviously debriefed of Kisame seeing as he said this:

You must be registered for see images

Obviously the kages would've debriefed him on Kisame.

Are you kidding me? Because he said his name, he has intel on his whole abilities lmao. He has been briefed? That's not "Obvious". The Raikage's men knew who Sasuke was but didn't have full intel on his entire abilities. They only knew the elemental natures which he possessed. Mentioning someone's name and stating they probably marked the island coordinates doesn't suggest that he has intel on his arsenal. LOL not to mention not one of the Kages had an encounter with Kisame before this except Ay who encountered Zetsu that was thought to be Kisame. They didn't battle so that's irrelevant. You have to use stronger proof than that to suggest he know the the entirety of Kisame's arsenal.

Back on track. So, at the start of the match Gaara could easily OHKO Kisame. By simply using the same tactic he did vs Kimimaro. Distraction up top, sand grab @ the bottom + sand burial/sand coffin his legs. NO LEGS. Kisame would have no legs, you can't do anything without any legs. His legs would be liquefied, just like he did vs the ninja in the forest of death & just like he would've done to Kimimaro. There is no arguing against this.

Expensive joke. Not only does the water push Kisame far above ground level, it's more than laughable to believe that Gaara would use sand from underneath to catch him. Just lol. Kimmi doesn't have clones that can divert Gaara's attention from the real and Kisame has Samehada which can sense and react easily like this with Samehada's warning or if they've merged

You must be registered for see links

Maybe he might not just have that level of reaction(Being able to react to V2 B though) with a warning but then he can slash the sand with Samehada. Not that this is an issue but he has the physical strength to break through especially if he sucks the chakra making it weak with his prowess.

What's funny about your post is that Gaara gave room to Kimmi to attack first before he reacted.

Inb4 Subterranean Voyage.

You must be registered for see images

:lol Kisame basically makes the sand for Gaara to use, so that he can crush him easier than before. Hilarious af in its own right. GG Kisame, swim around underground creating more sand for Gaara to use. That's a good sand shark, good boy, now die. :lol

He doesn't need to use this and this battle would take place on Kisame's ground after the place gets flooded with water.

Btw, countering water dome is easy af. :lol

Look at the size of the Sand tsunami a Pt.1 Gaara created in mere SECONDS:

You must be registered for see images

Here's the anime depiction of the sand tsunami:

You must be registered for see images

And it continues to stretch further! If we mass all that up its equal or bigger than Kisame's water dome. No one can deny that. Oh, and must I iterate again that that was Pt.1 Gaara? :lol!

You must be registered for see images

Watch the damn video actually starts at 8:50 (f*ck Gaara is such a savage, no wonder he's my favorite | Kimimaro be like: "That's the last time I'll be caught in your sand - Gaara's reaction :lol :lol :lol #FOH with that bullshit #TerrainChangerSinceAge13):

Bruh! That shit stretches farther than what it is showing, it's way wider than Kisame's water dome. Water Dome vs Sand Tsunami :lol Tsunami wins every time.

All Gaara has to do is engulf Kisame's WD with all that sand, and do a giant sand coffin, like he did giant sand funeral, and it's GG. Not that it would even escalate that damn far, because like I said Gaara's execution speed, and reaction time to things now is so f*cking fast it's stupid.

This is adult Gaara doing that, but without putting his chakra into the ground :lol

You must be registered for see images

This would be used as a "counter"? You're telling me that he's going to use that(Despite the prep) to counter something that sends people way above ground level after it's formed in one panel?

You must be registered for see links

Something that makes one lose his/her footing easily as shown? Let alone Gaar settling down for a Jutsu. Not to mention you're just using inconsistencies but the only thing is that it stretches further. Not all mountains are the same height but even when you even look at those trees you can see the full size in the two scans. WD vs the trees in its region and Sand Tsunami vs the trees in it's region, who wins? Here's the Manga and not the anime's showing of half of the dome and you can look at the mountains and trees

You must be registered for see links

or let's speak of Kimmimaro easily coming out even if it was supposed to completely bury him. That won't put Kisame down one bit. Let's now say Sand Tsuname is indeed bigger overall, how does that help as a counter when Kisame is far faster in water and would occupy him leaving him finished. When Kisame's initiation is faster and comes quicker? Lol at Sand Tsunami engulfing the Dome when Gaara has to swim to save his damn life rather than stay still to use this Jutsu LOL. Shark are there(Probably over a thousand), Clones are there and Kisame isn't standing still.

One thing you don't know is if the battlefield is flooded with his great colluding wave from the start, Kisame can easily turn it into a Dome making the prep much quicker leaving zero counters for Gaara with Sand Tsunami. Once Gaara is caught in this, the fight ends.

-Kisame wins because he has the durability, physical prowess, ability to heal, sensory, speed, absorption and techniques to defeat Gaara here.

DrProof · Oct 8, 2016

Haizaki said:
The sand is sand but infused with chakra. Absorbing the chakra is completely different

VIZ:
You must be registered for see links

Deidara " He always carries a set amount of chakra in his gourd...Into which he then pours an enormous amount of chakra.

Preta's point won't work here, sand is a material which without chakra won't be absorbed because it is not created from chakra. Preta absorbs techniques created from chakra. Gaara's sand is not created from it but has chakra inserted into it. Absorbing techniques created from chakra is completely different because without chakra, they can't remain or hold. Meanwhile, Gaara's sand doesn't need chakra to hold. It only uses chakra to become stronger and faster. Almost similar to how Preta can absorb chakra of individuals like Naruto but on the other hand, he cannot absorb Naruto himself. I put that similar in bold because people can easily twist this logic into something else.

Gaara gets the chakra in his sand absorbed and then it weakens enabling Kisame to easily break out. Madara couldn't absorb the sand but that's not to state he can't absorb the chakra in it. That alone is silly when the Manga has evidently shown chakra can easily be absorbed. The Jutsu was contained with sand that could not be absorbed.

Gaara would be in skies before Kisame opts to attack especially with no intel is the biggest joke so far.

GSB can eat the sand and take its chakra

Then a release occurs. If GSB is feeding on the sand in a similar way to Hirudora(Though AT had no chakra) then yes it becomes stronger and it's release becomes stronger too since the Jutsu strength depends on what it is feeding on.

While you're at it, note that a near death Kimmimaro broke out of that. While you're at it, note that you have close to nothing to prove that the strength of that technique has gone up so high that the likes of Kisame who:

- His 30% clone physically overpowered the likes of Gai to an extent who stated "He had superhuman strength"..Take not that Gai punched a shinobi through a wall, has a 5 in strength and most likely would have broken a large boulder if not for the seal as he stated
You must be registered for see links
The Akatsuki were worried with the noise from that..Same person overpowered to an extent by a 30% Kisame clone who he noted had superhuman strength

- He broke out of the Wood stocks that were chakra enhanced shocking Yamato in an incredibly weak state from Hiruodora

- What makes this laughable is the fact that Kimmimaro has a 3 in strength not even close to Might Gai who has a 5. Let alone Kisame who has a 5 and overpowered that same Gai with a 30% clone.

- Gai is easily stronger than Kimmimaro. Gaara grew just a little within those chapters. Not to a ridiculously high level between when he fought Rock Lee and Kimmimaro. Recall that Gai without trying could simply wave Gaara's sand away in that same part 1
You must be registered for see links

Especially when Kisame can evade by entering water and even use his 1000 sharks as a collision. You're even forgetting the fact that he has clones. Water clones were stated to be endowed with the original user's abilities. Add more sharks which they can reproduce to the original's and Kisame would have an incredibly large amount that would be bigger than Gaara's.

I made reference to the fact that Kisame reaction speed with the water prison is great
You must be registered for see links
and the fact that Kisame can

- Heal
- Strong and Durable enough
- Has the defense of the water prison making attack harder to get through.

I see no reason why the impact of Gaara's attack won't be reduced.

While you keep saying about Earth>Water why don't you also address the fact that Lightning>Earth in which Gaara mixed his sand with both Lightning and Water. It's a collaboration.

Gengetsu is part of the Hozuki's clan which the technique comes from. Both Suigetsu and Gengetsu are a part. Because he can release oil and water from his body doesn't change the actual technique. Even though he has oil and water, his other technique Mizzudeppo from the DB4 states:

"The actual mechanics are simple, the body of the person liquifies. One takes aim with their finger tips and the water drop is shot like a bullet.". There's no oil in that even through he has to liquefy his whole body.

You can see that he uses oily slime for a fact here:

You must be registered for see images

And you can see that he used water alone here

You must be registered for see images

The color of the sand is one to notice when both are used. The SFX "shlop" not allowing the sand stick vs the SFX "Crumble" for the water when it drops.

Only if you realized how this sounds. Kisame for a fact is far more durable by feats. Kisame took a full V2 lariat with a bull face skeleton and survived it showing no pain. Mind you, Base B's lariat was stronger than that of V2 Ay who's physical strength if off the charts
You must be registered for see links
and V1 B's lariat did this much damage
You must be registered for see links
to his place of training. Lol @Kimmimaro being more durable. Kisame has quite some outstanding feats. I already disproved the notion of Kimmi being stronger lmao. Shouldn't be repeated when this dude doesn't have feats close to Kisame, isn't stronger than Base Gai alone. I already said:

"Gai is easily stronger than Kimmimaro. Gaara grew just a little within these chapters. Not to a ridiculously high level between when he fought Rock Lee and Kimmimaro. Recall that Gai without trying could simply wave Gaara's sand away in that same part 1
You must be registered for see links
"

Gaara grew but during these scenarios, Kimmi was near death. Gai only waved his sand..None who actually showed their prowess to the fullest. Kisame has DB stats on his side compared to Kimmi by far. Kisame's 30% clone overpowered Gai who said it had superhuman strength.(Not the real Kisame especially when Itachi said their strength was in proportion to the chakra given or so). Kisame here has durability and strength on his side. That's a no no.

Although I'm not entirely 50% sure if Kisame does increase his durability with Samehada which is debatable. If that's a fact, then your point gets worse.

- Sasuke said "Stealth" skills rivals Kakashi after he snuck upon Sasuke without having a clue
You must be registered for see links
..That's irrelevant here. This is most relevant in respect to infiltration. LOL you don't know what you're talking about clearly and Kisame with Samehada merged enables him to sense making this futile.

- Bone forest isn't really a strong feat to use when they develop gradually and when we had a full page before we saw what happened. It was already over when Gaara was above. It was off paneled and there's the fact that Bone forest which develops gradually had already covered the entire forest as soon as they were back on panel
You must be registered for see links

- Gaara's feat against Deidara is obviously a good one but he was already watching Deidara and knew the bird wasn't from the village like he said. He's good at stealth and longed prepared for Deidara as he spotted him
You must be registered for see links

- That scan doesn't necessarily imply that Gaara sand is faster than Onoki. Look at the scan, Onoki catches the usual back pain and screams. Gaara said "I'll go, my sand can carry me there quickly" right after that and not before Onoki was suggested..Then Onoki after shouted back at him that he'll go. Nowhere does it imply that Gaara can get the quicker when Onoki just felt his back pain which was a drawback as usual. Gaara would have suggested he can go quicker before Onoki screamed of his back pain. Before that, even Tsunade recommended that he can get there quickly because he can fly. Ay had no objections and Gaara asked "Can you do this?"..No indication that he could get there quicker. What's crazy is how Deidara out-sped Gaara's sand and Onoki was even with him when it came to his flight movement.

- Then let's not forget Kisame's Shunsin once matching Itachi's like in the middle. Good speed feat
You must be registered for see links

10% Water Clones that can replicate the orignal's technique's aren't a waste of space and chakra for someone compared to a tailed beast. LOL. Oh and read what I said again, I said the water prison enabled flight to the shark and would do so if needed because there's absolutely no reason why that should happen. Don't argue something that was shown in the scan. That's irrational when we've seen it clearly.

- Countered the preta point.

- You seem to be confident about Gaara going up to ridiculous heights. Then you forget Kisame spits a massive amount of water which changes the ground level of the battlefield and pushes him upwards. Look at Gai merely opening the Gate showing how massive the water is
You must be registered for see links
and that's 30% but then we have the fact that multiple spitting from clones would increase the level. Matter of fact Kisame can add to the level if he decides to spit more. If you think Gaara would just stay up, then Kisame uses his own means to push up too. Then there's the fact I showed the prison enables him to get high in the air like in the middle
You must be registered for see links

- I stated that it was a collaboration because we've outright seen what water did to it when faced again it. Don't use Gengetsu's oily water composition because I showed what that itself does to the sand. Different from water. Lightning subdues the effect of water
You must be registered for see links
--Lightning could be used alongside water and Gaara's sand was mixed in this technique.

- Let's now state that Gaara controlled it wet(Even though what I just said comes into play), there's nothing suggesting that it regained it's usual strength while not wet. Water should weaken the effect of it without a doubt. Speed wise and strength wise.

You aren't making any sense with this point "So why didn't Gaara's sand become hindered by Mei's water? It's because Doton > Water simple." -- Using this logic would then imply that lightning should have in fact destroyed Gaara's sand because lightning was indeed a part of the technique and lightning is known to be superior to Earth(Read the bottom left as stated
You must be registered for see links
). Now let me ask you just like you asked me, why didn't Gaara's sand get destroyed? Simple lol. It was a collaboration.

Countered.

Stop using this Earth> Water when I countered with Lightning> Earth and the bold, is a ridiculous assumption. I need proof of that...Using a collaboration doesn't mean a thing but at the same time, Gaara didn't all of a sudden learn how to counter lightning against Madara lmao.

Are you kidding me? Because he said his name, he has intel on his whole abilities lmao. He has been briefed? That's not "Obvious". The Raikage's men knew who Sasuke was but didn't have full intel on his entire abilities. They only knew the elemental natures which he possessed. Mentioning someone's name and stating they probably marked the island coordinates doesn't suggest that he has intel on his arsenal. LOL not to mention not one of the Kages had an encounter with Kisame before this except Ay who encountered Zetsu that was thought to be Kisame. They didn't battle so that's irrelevant. You have to use stronger proof than that to suggest he know the the entirety of Kisame's arsenal.

Expensive joke. Not only does the water push Kisame far above ground level, it's more than laughable to believe that Gaara would use sand from underneath to catch him. Just lol. Kimmi doesn't have clones that can divert Gaara's attention from the real and Kisame has Samehada which can sense and react easily like this with Samehada's warning or if they've merged
You must be registered for see links
Maybe he might not just have that level of reaction(Being able to react to V2 B though) with a warning but then he can slash the sand with Samehada. Not that this is an issue but he has the physical strength to break through especially if he sucks the chakra making it weak with his prowess.

What's funny about your post is that Gaara gave room to Kimmi to attack first before he reacted.

He doesn't need to use this and this battle would take place on Kisame's ground after the place gets flooded with water.

This would be used as a "counter"? You're telling me that he's going to use that(Despite the prep) to counter something that sends people way above ground level after it's formed in one panel?
You must be registered for see links
Something that makes one lose his/her footing easily as shown? Let alone Gaar settling down for a Jutsu. Not to mention you're just using inconsistencies but the only thing is that it stretches further. Not all mountains are the same height but even when you even look at those trees you can see the full size in the two scans. WD vs the trees in its region and Sand Tsunami vs the trees in it's region, who wins? Here's the Manga and not the anime's showing of half of the dome and you can look at the mountains and trees
You must be registered for see links
or let's speak of Kimmimaro easily coming out even if it was supposed to completely bury him. That won't put Kisame down one bit. Let's now say Sand Tsuname is indeed bigger overall, how does that help as a counter when Kisame is far faster in water and would occupy him leaving him finished. When Kisame's initiation is faster and comes quicker? Lol at Sand Tsunami engulfing the Dome when Gaara has to swim to save his damn life rather than stay still to use this Jutsu LOL. Shark are there(Probably over a thousand), Clones are there and Kisame isn't standing still.

One thing you don't know is if the battlefield is flooded with his great colluding wave from the start, Kisame can easily turn it into a Dome making the prep much quicker leaving zero counters for Gaara with Sand Tsunami. Once Gaara is caught in this, the fight ends.

-Kisame wins because he has the durability, physical prowess, ability to heal, sensory, speed, absorption and techniques to defeat Gaara here.

You've got heart :lol Will respond in a few.

NarutoX28 · Oct 8, 2016

DrProof said:
Btw, countering water dome is easy af. :lol

Look at the size of the Sand tsunami a Pt.1 Gaara created in mere SECONDS:

You must be registered for see images

Here's the anime depiction of the sand tsunami:

You must be registered for see images

And it continues to stretch further! If we mass all that up its equal or bigger than Kisame's water dome. No one can deny that. Oh, and must I iterate again that that was Pt.1 Gaara? :lol!

You must be registered for see images

This is such an illogical premise, especially considering that you believe your superficial and subjective view of Gaara's feats holds more weight than context and common sense. You can't compare Gaara's P1 Feats towards Kisame's P2 Feats when Kishimoto's conception of things had changed substantially overtime. Gaara's feats were over-exaggerated because the magnitude of his technique at the time was considered to be extraordinary during Part 1 where Kishimoto's expectations were significantly lower than they were in Part 2 and this aligns perfectly to how none of Gaara's feats found in Part 2 were as visually stunning because Kishimoto's standards had risen to the point where Gaara's feats were no longer extraordinary.

This is why I referred to the idea of where you blatantly ignored context because you ignored the time and circumstances of which Kishimoto drew P1 Gaara's scene and by doing so, you ignored the author's perspective altogether.

Moreover, when I referred to common sense, I referenced the idea of power-scaling where logistically speaking, Kisame's Water-dome should be significantly larger than Gaara's Sand Tsunami. You're literally arguing that P1 Gaara can amass more chakra than Kisame, who naturally possesses Bijuu-like levels of Chakra. This absolutely makes no sense because the amount of chakra one can use in an instant is dependent on one's Stamina and Kisame's literally dwarfs Gaara's considering his chakra reserves were noticeably higher than Nagato's who can amass enough chakra to wipe out 3 Boss Toads with just a portion of his chakra with relative ease. To even suggest that Gaara can muster even more chakra than Nagato himself is outright stupidity and you'd be arguing against common sense if you suggested otherwise.

I'll praise Gaara when its due, but your superficial view over the manga makes absolutely no sense.

DrProof · Oct 9, 2016

NarutoX28 said:
This is such an illogical premise, especially considering that you believe your superficial and subjective view of Gaara's feats holds more weight than context and common sense. You can't compare Gaara's P1 Feats towards Kisame's P2 Feats when Kishimoto's conception of things had changed substantially overtime. Gaara's feats were over-exaggerated because the magnitude of his technique at the time was considered to be extraordinary during Part 1 where Kishimoto's expectations were significantly lower than they were in Part 2 and this aligns perfectly to how none of Gaara's feats found in Part 2 were as visually stunning because Kishimoto's standards had risen to the point where Gaara's feats were no longer extraordinary.

This is why I referred to the idea of where you blatantly ignored context because you ignored the time and circumstances of which Kishimoto drew P1 Gaara's scene and by doing so, you ignored the author's perspective altogether.

Moreover, when I referred to common sense, I referenced the idea of power-scaling where logistically speaking, Kisame's Water-dome should be significantly larger than Gaara's Sand Tsunami. You're literally arguing that P1 Gaara can amass more chakra than Kisame, who naturally possesses Bijuu-like levels of Chakra. This absolutely makes no sense because the amount of chakra one can use in an instant is dependent on one's Stamina and Kisame's literally dwarfs Gaara's considering his chakra reserves were noticeably higher than Nagato's who can amass enough chakra to wipe out 3 Boss Toads with just a portion of his chakra with relative ease. To even suggest that Gaara can muster even more chakra than Nagato himself is outright stupidity and you'd be arguing against common sense if you suggested otherwise.

I'll praise Gaara when its due, but your superficial view over the manga makes absolutely no sense.

:lol You sound dumb right now. You can type hella paragraphs I don't care, but in the end what you're words are saying is this: "You have manga scans of everything, and I'm merely using my bias for Kisame to say that Gaara can make more sand than he can make water WITHOUT A WATER SOURCE :lol"

Get out of here bruh. If you're going to spout some f*ck shit like this, at least do it vs someone who doesn't have manga scans, on manga scans, and proof that builds up to the sky. Don't ever post some bullshit like this again :lol

@Evani hurricane over here, my internets been shoddy. I'll post when I can.

NarutoX28 · Oct 9, 2016

DrProof said:
:lol You sound dumb right now. You can type hella paragraphs I don't care, but in the end what you're words are saying is this: "You have manga scans of everything, and I'm merely using my bias for Kisame to say that Gaara can make more sand than he can make water WITHOUT A WATER SOURCE :lol"

Get out of here bruh. If you're going to spout some f*ck shit like this, at least do it vs someone who doesn't have manga scans, on manga scans, and proof that builds up to the sky. Don't ever post some bullshit like this again :lol

@Evani hurricane over here, my internets been shoddy. I'll post when I can.

No, it's such an illogical premise because you deny common sense itself and choose to believe that such a superficial view of the manga such as "Dude, it's right there in front of our eyez" has more credibility than an argument that incorporates context and authorial intent. Conforming to such thinking is equivalent to believing that Kakashi, Gaara, Lee, and Minato can react faster than 8th Gate Gai can even move an inch simply because it was blatantly shown right in front of our eyes even though if we did even a small level of analysis, we'd begin to realize that this simply isn't the case.

This has nothing to do with Kisame wank, it has everything to do with you having such an elementary view of the manga and denying common sense itself.

DrProof · Oct 9, 2016

NarutoX28 said:
No, it's such an illogical premise because you deny common sense itself and choose to believe that such a superficial view of the manga such as "Dude, it's right there in front of our eyez" has more credibility than an argument that incorporates context and authorial intent. Conforming to such thinking is equivalent to believing that Kakashi, Gaara, Lee, and Minato can react faster than 8th Gate Gai can even move an inch simply because it was blatantly shown right in front of our eyes even though if we did even a small level of analysis, we'd begin to realize that this simply isn't the case.

This has nothing to do with Kisame wank, it has everything to do with you having such an elementary view of the manga and denying common sense itself.

Dude :lol.

If you USE YOUR EYES :lol you'll see that Gaara's Sand goes further than we can see, shown by both the anime/manga depictions. Dude, I'm not saying Gaara's sand is bigger in terms of vertical size (overall compiled mass), I'm saying both the length, and width exceed its own, and when compilled they would =/slightly smaller than WD's overall size (doubtful :lol).

That was Kisame with no water source :lol. This was Gaara with LANDS OF GROUND to make his Sand Tsunami x (times) larger than it normally would be.

No source <<<< Source of production. Smh. This is not hard to understand at all, and the fact that you would sneak diss like a little ****** in the group calling this Gaara wank shows me you're a hoe ass nig. Say it in this thread, don't bring it to the group. Straight hoe move.

DrProof · Oct 9, 2016

Must I strain this is Pt.2 Gaara we're arguing about :lol He could easily make a Sand Tsunami bigger than WD, since he made one close to it/on par with it in width/length :lol

I don't even know why this is being questioned.

DrProof · Oct 9, 2016

You're literally arguing that P1 Gaara can amass more chakra than Kisame, who naturally possesses Bijuu-like levels of Chakra. This absolutely makes no sense because the amount of chakra one can use in an instant is dependent on one's Stamina and Kisame's literally dwarfs Gaara's considering his chakra reserves

Forgetting Gaara was a Jin :lol

Claims Kisame has larger Chakra reserves than Gaara, despite actual proof, when both make large scale techniques, except Gaara does it better :lol

ToshiZO · Oct 9, 2016

NarutoX28 said:
This is such an illogical premise, especially considering that you believe your superficial and subjective view of Gaara's feats holds more weight than context and common sense. You can't compare Gaara's P1 Feats towards Kisame's P2 Feats when Kishimoto's conception of things had changed substantially overtime. Gaara's feats were over-exaggerated because the magnitude of his technique at the time was considered to be extraordinary during Part 1 where Kishimoto's expectations were significantly lower than they were in Part 2 and this aligns perfectly to how none of Gaara's feats found in Part 2 were as visually stunning because Kishimoto's standards had risen to the point where Gaara's feats were no longer extraordinary.

This is why I referred to the idea of where you blatantly ignored context because you ignored the time and circumstances of which Kishimoto drew P1 Gaara's scene and by doing so, you ignored the author's perspective altogether.

Moreover, when I referred to common sense, I referenced the idea of power-scaling where logistically speaking, Kisame's Water-dome should be significantly larger than Gaara's Sand Tsunami. You're literally arguing that P1 Gaara can amass more chakra than Kisame, who naturally possesses Bijuu-like levels of Chakra. This absolutely makes no sense because the amount of chakra one can use in an instant is dependent on one's Stamina and Kisame's literally dwarfs Gaara's considering his chakra reserves were noticeably higher than Nagato's who can amass enough chakra to wipe out 3 Boss Toads with just a portion of his chakra with relative ease. To even suggest that Gaara can muster even more chakra than Nagato himself is outright stupidity and you'd be arguing against common sense if you suggested otherwise.

I'll praise Gaara when its due, but your superficial view over the manga makes absolutely no sense.

"Gaara can't create more sand than the Water Dome because I think it should be that way, and it doesn't matter what the scans show"

Really?

DrProof · Oct 9, 2016

ToshiZO said:
"Gaara can't create more sand than the Water Dome because I think it should be that way, and it doesn't matter what the scans show"

Really?

Seriously. Just because Pt.2 feats > Pt.1 feats (usually), doesn't take away from the actual properties (size/strength etc.) from the Pt.1 techniques. Tayuya's Sound Genjutsu is a perfect example of this. Tsukuyomi is a perfect example of this, I mean the list goes on.

Literally that was nothing, but bias opinion in regards to why he THINKS Pt.1 Gaara's Sand Tsunami was intially that size, when in fact it was because it was actually the size due to: having a production source eg; THE WHOLE FOREST -> Bijuu level chakra. :lol

Jinrou · Oct 9, 2016

NarutoX28 said:
This is such an illogical premise, especially considering that you believe your superficial and subjective view of Gaara's feats holds more weight than context and common sense. You can't compare Gaara's P1 Feats towards Kisame's P2 Feats when Kishimoto's conception of things had changed substantially overtime. Gaara's feats were over-exaggerated because the magnitude of his technique at the time was considered to be extraordinary during Part 1 where Kishimoto's expectations were significantly lower than they were in Part 2 and this aligns perfectly to how none of Gaara's feats found in Part 2 were as visually stunning because Kishimoto's standards had risen to the point where Gaara's feats were no longer extraordinary.

This is why I referred to the idea of where you blatantly ignored context because you ignored the time and circumstances of which Kishimoto drew P1 Gaara's scene and by doing so, you ignored the author's perspective altogether.

Moreover, when I referred to common sense, I referenced the idea of power-scaling where logistically speaking, Kisame's Water-dome should be significantly larger than Gaara's Sand Tsunami. You're literally arguing that P1 Gaara can amass more chakra than Kisame, who naturally possesses Bijuu-like levels of Chakra. This absolutely makes no sense because the amount of chakra one can use in an instant is dependent on one's Stamina and Kisame's literally dwarfs Gaara's considering his chakra reserves were noticeably higher than Nagato's who can amass enough chakra to wipe out 3 Boss Toads with just a portion of his chakra with relative ease. To even suggest that Gaara can muster even more chakra than Nagato himself is outright stupidity and you'd be arguing against common sense if you suggested otherwise.

I'll praise Gaara when its due, but your superficial view over the manga makes absolutely no sense.

Gaara was a Jinchuuriki. Doesn't being a Jinchuuriki grant automatic large chakra reserves? Gaara's stamina was a 5 in DB and his performance in the war arc seems to attest to the fact he has huge reserves as he fought 3 Kage (Rasa, Muu, Trollkage), Madara and then went off to square up against Madara again at the main battle front.

- I'm also not sure why you're trying to downplay the tsunami feat? Granted I see your logic but really doesn't it also mean Gaara is definitely able to do more in part 2?

The Meteor Madara casually dropped for instance:

You must be registered for see images

Look at the sheer size. Completely dwarfing the Gokage vs Madara area and It even totally blocks out the sky as we see from this

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

Gaara then creates enough sand to cover what looks like more than half the area/perimeter of the meteor in what tbh must have been seconds.

You must be registered for see images

If we compared the volume used in part 1 to the one he used to stop this meteor, I'm sure it should be obvious the meteor volume was much more than the P1 tsunami?

And no it wasn't a desert...We clearly see Gaara's gourd sand active in the middle panel.

DrProof · Oct 9, 2016

Jinrou said:
Gaara was a Jinchuuriki. Doesn't being a Jinchuuriki grant automatic large chakra reserves? Gaara's stamina was a 5 in DB and his performance in the war arc seems to attest to the fact he has huge reserves as he fought 3 Kage (Rasa, Muu, Trollkage), Madara and then went off to square up against Madara again at the main battle front.

- I'm also not sure why you're trying to downplay the tsunami feat? Granted I see your logic but really doesn't it also mean Gaara is definitely able to do more in part 2?

The Meteor Madara casually dropped for instance:

You must be registered for see images

Look at the sheer size. Completely dwarfing the Gokage vs Madara area and It even totally blocks out the sky as we see from this
You must be registered for see links
and
You must be registered for see links

Gaara then creates enough sand to cover what looks like more than half the area/perimeter of the meteor in what tbh must have been seconds.

You must be registered for see images

If we compared the volume used in part 1 to the one he used to stop this meteor, I'm sure it should be obvious the meteor volume was much more than the P1 tsunami?

And no it wasn't a desert...We clearly see Gaara's gourd sand active in the middle panel.

Here are the two scans you're referring to in regards to the sand covering the bottom of the meteor:

You must be registered for see images

The second scan shows the sand on the first meteor @ the bottom. Clearly covering the entirety.

KidGamer65 · Oct 9, 2016

RedRobin said:
But Ay really stands no chance though. At every point he comes in samehada absorbs the lighting armor and reduces the attacks to regular attacks which will hurt kisame but with Samehada pulling bijuu size chakra at every point Kisame heals. Rinse and repeat no?

Why would they be regular attacks? Absorbing the cloak after he's began motion doesn't change the momentum behind his attack, thus the power remains the same. Naruto didn't want to take a direct hit from said hits and Naruto's durability in KCM>>Kisame's durability. So if Ay is close enough to blitz Kisame then he can knock Samehada from the jump. Or he'd just hit Kisame in an area where he'd die on impact. I.E. his head.

When he was partially merged with Samehada Naruto's Shunshin+Punch caused him to cough up a good amount of blood. Ay's hits are far more heavy than Naruto's, so if he's not fused and he takes one of those to the head it's GG.

Does Kisame Wreck Classic Gokage? (Individually)

Kage in the Making 👑

Kage in the Making 👑

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜

Kage in the Making 👑

Kage in the Making 👑

Kage in the Making 👑

Kage in the Making 👑

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜

Kage in the Making 👑

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜

Kage in the Making 👑

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜

Kage in the Making 👑

Kage in the Making 👑

Kage in the Making 👑

Anbu Operative 🎭

Kage in the Making 👑

Kage in the Making 👑

Kage in the Making 👑

Legendary Shinobi 🐸