[Discussion] At what difficulty can Roger defeat an admiral?

[Punk Hazard]

So I guess the Straw Hat and Heart Pirate Alliance can beat Roger since they're supposed to defeat Kaido, who can push Roger to extreme diff according to you.

That's only if you're dumb enough to believe The StrawHeart Alliance can beat Kaido now.

 

[Punk Hazard]

This is the replay I was looking for. You are ASSUMING that Prime WB>>Yonkou/Admirals. At what difficulty would Prime WB beat Old WB? Extreme diff. Is the difference in strength big? Or is it just a miniscule margin? Based on what happened in the manga its the latter.

Yup, I think the difference between old WB and Prime WB is endurance and reaction speed. Notice any comment made on Whitebeard's decrease from his former glory was either his reaction speed or his stamina, and not really his power output. Sengoku and Tsuru commented on his Gura powers and offensive ability as though it was the same as when he was in his prime, they never once made note that had decreased in any way; especially when they said he could destroy the world. Prime Whitebeard is basically old Whitebeard who isn't being stopped by his heart every 10 minutes and with better reaction speed.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

So I guess the Straw Hat and Heart Pirate Alliance can beat Roger since they're supposed to defeat Kaido, who can push Roger to extreme diff according to you.

First of all, do we know that its just gonna be the Luffy-Law alliance? What about Sabo and Drake? What about them getting stronger before they fight Kaidou? That's a bit of an unfair example on your part.

How about this. Switch Old WB with Prime WB, Roger, Kaidou, Big Mam, Shanks or Dragon's forces at Marineford and it'll still be a one-sided slaughter. The Marines would've won.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

I'm pretty sure there are 5 people in the Gorosei at one time(Go means 5 in Japanese).

Yeah, add Fuji and Ryokugyu there too.

Yeah I know there's always five. But the blonde one doesn't look like he would be old enough to be so authoritive 22 years beforehand

We don't know how old Ghandi was so that's an ambiguous case

What about Marco? You suggested him earlier in the thread and I'd have to agree... If you add Marco you should probably add Ben Beckmann

I know the list is only based on what we've seen but it's pretty dead certain that Dragon and Ryokugyu are top tiers

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yeah I know there's always five. But the blonde one doesn't look like he would be old enough to be so authoritive 22 years beforehand

We don't know how old Ghandi was so that's an ambiguous case

What about Marco? You suggested him earlier in the thread and I'd have to agree... If you add Marco you should probably add Ben Beckmann

I know the list is only based on what we've seen but it's pretty dead certain that Dragon and Ryokugyu are top tiers

Yeah, but I'm not too sure about Marco at the moment. But if I added him, I'd definitely add Beckman.

Oh shit I knew I was forgetting a bunch of people, yeah Dragon too.

 

[ssjelf]

Someone give Silmarill a vicodin.

So you're saying Blackbeard's crew at that moment in time could have defeated Akainu? Okay.

Akainu was left vulnerable after WB hit him that second time. So yeah they could have, just like they beat WB who was left vunerable due to his age and injuries. If they fought him after he came back, they woulda lost. I think you forget that certain blows can leave people vulnerable to successive damage. During that few minutes akainu was gone he was able to recover from the shock of WB's attack. Its kinda like you are saying that luffy cant beat a beaten up marco therefore he cant beat marco with sea stone handcuffs. IF WB came back to fight akainu after akainu reappeared WB would have lost, but had akainu not fallen in that hole, he woulda got hit again and again until he died. Like someone else said, the hole was plot to save akainu.

Actually, Whitebeard stated he doesn't care about the title of Pirate King. Or more specifically, he doesn't care to do the thing that earns one the title of Pirate King, he just wanted a family. For all we know, Whitebeard could have been Pirate King, and the only reason Roger became Pirate King instead of WB was because Newgate simply didn't want to.

That is a good point so therefore Roger=Prime WB>old WB> akainu. If we consider old WB vs akainu to be extreme diff, prime WB is high diff at most.

This is the replay I was looking for. You are ASSUMING that Prime WB>>Yonkou/Admirals. At what difficulty would Prime WB beat Old WB? Extreme diff. Is the difference in strength big? Or is it just a miniscule margin? Based on what happened in the manga its the latter.

Prime WB low end extreme diff old WB. You are assuming its miniscule. The manga twice made a point that WB was old and twice he took considerable damage because of it. The manga does not suggest it is miniscule.

Yup, I think the difference between old WB and Prime WB is endurance and reaction speed. Notice any comment made on Whitebeard's decrease from his former glory was either his reaction speed or his stamina, and not really his power output. Sengoku and Tsuru commented on his Gura powers and offensive ability as though it was the same as when he was in his prime, they never once made note that had decreased in any way; especially when they said he could destroy the world. Prime Whitebeard is basically old Whitebeard who isn't being stopped by his heart every 10 minutes and with better reaction speed.

The difference between old Wb and prime WB is the age. Twice WB was left paralyzed due to his age and the second time due to both damage and age (damage received due to age). Those two moments cost WB his life. If his reaction time was better, he mighta dodged that attack from akainu which cost him half his head.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Yeah, but I'm not too sure about Marco at the moment. But if I added him, I'd definitely add Beckman.

Oh shit I knew I was forgetting a bunch of people, yeah Dragon too.

Hahah, and probably Kaidou's and Linlin's first mates (if they have first mates)... Although we don't know who they are

 

[Punk Hazard]

Akainu was left vulnerable after WB hit him that second time. So yeah they could have, just like they beat WB who was left vunerable due to his age and injuries. If they fought him after he came back, they woulda lost. I think you forget that certain blows can leave people vulnerable to successive damage. During that few minutes akainu was gone he was able to recover from the shock of WB's attack. Its kinda like you are saying that luffy cant beat a beaten up marco therefore he cant beat marco with sea stone handcuffs. IF WB came back to fight akainu after akainu reappeared WB would have lost, but had akainu not fallen in that hole, he woulda got hit again and again until he died. Like someone else said, the hole was plot to save akainu.



That is a good point so therefore Roger=Prime WB>old WB> akainu. If we consider old WB vs akainu to be extreme diff, prime WB is high diff at most.



Prime WB low end extreme diff old WB. You are assuming its miniscule. The manga twice made a point that WB was old and twice he took considerable damage because of it. The manga does not suggest it is miniscule.



The difference between old Wb and prime WB is the age. Twice WB was left paralyzed due to his age and the second time due to both damage and age (damage received due to age). Those two moments cost WB his life. If his reaction time was better, he mighta dodged that attack from akainu which cost him half his head.

Then that would mean that Teach's measly little group of cronies>Whitebeard's commanders with minor to no injuries, Crocodile and many other pirates. Nah, that doesn't add up.

 

[ssjelf]

Then that would mean that Teach's measly little group of cronies>Whitebeard's commanders with minor to no injuries, Crocodile and many other pirates. Nah, that doesn't add up.

BB's crew isn't weak lol. Besides that if BB touched akainu with his power at that moment, all they would have to do is stab him. 9 guys vs one is hardly saying anything about their abilities compared to the WB commanders. It was shown that even with haki the commanders couldn't touch akainu, but BB's power supersedes that.

 

[Punk Hazard]

BB's crew isn't weak lol. Besides that if BB touched akainu with his power at that moment, all they would have to do is stab him. 9 guys vs one is hardly saying anything about their abilities compared to the WB commanders. It was shown that even with haki the commanders couldn't touch akainu, but BB's power supersedes that.

Seeing as a majority of them couldn't handle Ace, I doubt they'd do well against the man who killed him with one blow.

Teach tries to touch Akainu, he gets magma straight to the face. There's no way Teach would get the same opportunities to grab Akainu like he did with Whitebeard.

 

[ssjelf]

Seeing as a majority of them couldn't handle Ace, I doubt they'd do well against the man who killed him with one blow.

Teach tries to touch Akainu, he gets magma straight to the face. There's no way Teach would get the same opportunities to grab Akainu like he did with Whitebeard.

Akainu was stunned, yes he could have, we have also seen BB have the ability to suck people into his grab and we have seen that blackbeard has very high durability. You keep pulling this argument out of context by not factoring in that akainu was stunned.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Akainu was stunned, yes he could have, we have also seen BB have the ability to suck people into his grab and we have seen that blackbeard has very high durability. You keep pulling this argument out of context by not factoring in that akainu was stunned.

Why the hell would Akainu be stunned while facing them? Whitebeard's attack didn't stun him for more than a moment.

 

[VongolaX]

He was getting tired and was huffing around from a really short encounter, what's not to understand here? A scratch isnt supposed to mean anything really kizaru got caught off guard, the fact that he was getting tired against an opponent who was fighting without his primary fighting style and is always trolling around tells u how much has Rayleigh a chance of winning in that fight.

I should be asking that question.

Kizaru showed no sign of fatigue while fighting Rayleigh.

The man is light, for a guy who travels at the speed of light that sounds unrealistic.

Because what you're telling me is that the lightest admiral cannot fight for twenty minutes tops let alone ten days?

Huffing around has always been a way of Oda's telling the dominant fighter in it, he doesnt just add them for fun, he added them in many other fights and in all fights the one huffing was the one who is weaker then the other, it has been the same in Sabo's case vs fujitora, in doflamingo's case vs Aokiji etc etc, use ur logic a little really, someone doesnt have to get his shit beaten out for u to understand who has the upper hand.

Not at all

With Sabo versus the purple tiger, Sabo was the one struggling and came out damages in their fight.

And Akoji one-shot Doffy.

I made a comparison by age being its factor.

At an old age Rayleigh high diff the battle with performance, difficulty, and appearence.

Like Sabo against Fujitora, there was a struggle with Sabo's performance and he appeared to be the only one bruised.

If it was prime age Rayleigh, he would mid diff kizaru considering that his only flaw was stamina.

 

[ssjelf]

Why the hell would Akainu be stunned while facing them? Whitebeard's attack didn't stun him for more than a moment.

Because that was the argument. Did you forget what you even said?
-I said the had akainu not fallen into that hole, whitebeard would have finished him off becuase akainu was stunned.
-You said "So you're saying Blackbeard's crew at that moment in time could have defeated Akainu? Okay."
-I said yes they can because akainu was stunned. Also the WB commanders coulda beat him too.

The argument is that if at that exact moment BB was there instead of WB, then akainu would have lost.

Akainu was stunned for a few moments, otherwise he would not have fallen into the hole unless he was trying to run away. A one moment stun still would leave him time to jump off that rock he was one that was falling. He recovered several moments later so that he didnt land in water, but not so soon as to escape the hole. if you want to define a moment as the amount of time in which he was falling before he burrowed into the wall, then i think we can say he was stunned for several seconds at the least. Even several seoncds is enough to lose a fight against WB or BB, look at how WB lost, stunned for a moment and BB takes advantage. BB alone may not do enough damage to finish akainu off, but 9 people could for sure. I doubt akainu could take what WB did from the BB crew and survive.

 

[Zorø]

Roger mid diffs admirals he was pk for a reason.... and old sick whitebeard who was on his death bed high diffed the strongest admiral. So that speaks for itself.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Roger mid diffs admirals he was pk for a reason.... and old sick whitebeard who was on his death bed high diffed the strongest admiral. So that speaks for itself.

And this, my friends, is why Narutobase is regarded as a pile of w.ank in every anime and manga forum on the internet

P.S. nobody mid diffs an Admiral.
P.P.S Is he the strongest Admiral? Did he actually win? Seems to me like Akainu's attack is what caused Whitebeards death... BB only sped it up.

 

[TRE MERCER]

How come every one thinks Kizaru was the weakest out of the old Admirals?​

 

[ssjelf]

How come every one thinks Kizaru was the weakest out of the old Admirals?​

Because if he isnt the weakest he was the strongest. And I don't think anyone wants him to be stronger than akainu.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Because if he isnt the weakest he was the strongest. And I don't think anyone wants him to be stronger than akainu.

Imo he beats Akainu and Kuzan? Light beats Ice and Lava.​

 

[ssjelf]

Imo he beats Akainu and Kuzan? Light beats Ice and Lava.​

I suppose its possible but personally i don't like the idea of the fleet admiral being weaker than an admiral. I know it was never stated the fleet admiral is stronger but I would think it is implied. it was also never mentioned that kizaru got recommended to be fleet admiral so I think a lot of us assume that it has to do with strength (which it doesn't). One other thing is that akainu was the one who had a real highlight in the marineford arc with his battles with WB and the damage he did to him. Kizaru and aokiji had some but not exactly the same as akinu's. But that really mighta just been to make akainu the enemy for plot's sake. And i suppose it just as easily coulda been kizaru and aokiji.

With that said I think that a lot of us take these minor things as more than they might be. I think it is a definite possibility considering how close akainu and aokiji were. Whatever the case the gap is probably super thin.