[Discussion] At what difficulty can Roger defeat an admiral?

[silmarill]

As Corazon said above, being in the same tier does not mean your strength is even. If Whitebeard was stronger than Roger, then there strength was along the lines of 100 and 99.9. Whitebeard stalemated Roger, as did Garp and Sengoku, the difference in between the strength of these men are paper thin. Shanks, Kaido, Mihawk, they can all still be in the same tier and the gap can be bigger.

Not only that, but the people you are listing are said to be the last remaining major figures of the previous era that were still active. That's why their names were always mentioned with each other like that. Kaido, Shanks, Mihawk, they're not major figures of the previous Pirate Age, they're major figures of the new, current one, which is why their names aren't lumped in with them.

Notice the phrasings each time were ¨Roger and Garp always cornered each other" or ¨Whitebeard and Roger were fierce rivals¨ or ¨Garp and Sengoku could do this and that." It was always people saying what happened during that age, not them saying that these man stand above each and every single person alive in their own little tier.

In my opinion Law and Luffy are in the same tier or Kizaru and Aokiji
People whom if they fight the winner isn't already decided beforehand and it can be 3/10 or 7/10 wins for either
For Roger It will never be like that
He will always come out the victor 10/10 times while in other battles it can vary for him it is indefinitely
I'm not trying to downgrade the admiral I just strongly believe that Roger would always win any fight against them

 

[Punk Hazard]

In my opinion Law and Luffy are in the same tier or Kizaru and Aokiji
People whom if they fight the winner isn't already decided beforehand and it can be 3/10 or 7/10 wins for either
For Roger It will never be like that
He will always come out the victor 10/10 times while in other battles it can vary for him it is indefinitely
I'm not trying to downgrade the admiral I just strongly believe that Roger would always win any fight against them

Well, given all these manga feats you have presented us with and your in-depth detailed conversations with Oda, I have to say I'm inclined to agree with your almost-divine-inspired words.

 

[Olorin]

Also Mihawk, Kaido and most likely Big Mom.

And Kuzan and Kizaru and most likely Fuji and Ryokugyu

 

[Punk Hazard]

And Kuzan and Kizaru and most likely Fuji and Ryokugyu

Good additions. You think Marco could be there?

 

[bajram]

Lol you're out off your freakin mind if you think Rayleigh in his prime age is going to high diff an admiral.

Old Rayleigh high diff kizaru, it was clear as day that his physical condition hindered him.

In their exchange, only one of them came out without a scratch and that was the dark king.

He was getting tired and was huffing around from a really short encounter, what's not to understand here? A scratch isnt supposed to mean anything really kizaru got caught off guard, the fact that he was getting tired against an opponent who was fighting without his primary fighting style and is always trolling around tells u how much has Rayleigh a chance of winning in that fight.

Huffing around has always been a way of Oda's telling the dominant fighter in it, he doesnt just add them for fun, he added them in many other fights and in all fights the one huffing was the one who is weaker then the other, it has been the same in Sabo's case vs fujitora, in doflamingo's case vs Aokiji etc etc, use ur logic a little really, someone doesnt have to get his shit beaten out for u to understand who has the upper hand.

 

[silmarill]

Well, given all these manga feats you have presented us with and your in-depth detailed conversations with Oda, I have to say I'm inclined to agree with your almost-divine-inspired words.

what are u *****ing about?
If Roger beats all the admiral 1 on 1 it means he is a tier above them
even if it's only a small difference like 99 to 100 it's still a tier above so stop getting angry
Roger , WB , Garp = tier 100

0-99 the rest , that includes Mihawk , shanks yadayada

 

[Punk Hazard]

what are u *****ing about?
If Roger beats all the admiral 1 on 1 it means he is a tier above them
even if it's only a small difference like 99 to 100 it's still a tier above so stop getting angry

You can beat someone and be in the exact same tier as them dude Lol

By the way, is this a new trend in the One Piece section? Cuz, I keep seeing it these past few weeks, people going ¨Oh you're angry¨ or ¨You're upset" every time someone replies to their arguments with a rebuttal. It's pretty cheap, and most times, including this one, the person saying ¨Why are you angry¨ is the one sounding like his jeremies have been wrestled, not the person he's copping out to. Like, have we decided that the new way to debate and discuss is to just take random cheap shots towards a poster's mood that the poster hasn't even exhibited as opposed to, I don't know, actually debating and discussing? Cuz if so, this section is about to become a lot less enjoyable. Like, NDS level unenjoyable.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

1. Relatively undamaged my foot. Yes he was still mobile, yes he was still fighting but he was certainly not undamaged. WB was fighting Akainu man-to-man, having been stabbed through the chest, impaled with a magma fist, countless gun wounds, and suffering from a crippling ailment. Not to mention going on to fight BB afterwards.
Am I going to say he's "relatively undamaged" because he's still fighting? No, that would be silly.


2. No one is short-changing Akainu or anything of the sort. I have no idea why you're listing the people he fought.


3. (And probably the biggest misconception in your understanding of my argument) I not ONCE said that second punch critically damaged him. I didn't even imply such a thing. I stated that it immobilized him and was the reason he could not stop himself from falling into that pit. Had the pit not been there he'd have layed there immobilized for the short time he was and gotten finished by WB. I never claimed he took signficant damage from that punch but it was enough to immobilize him for at least 10 seconds. Otherwise he wouldn't have fallen into that pit. That 10 seconds would have cost Sakazuki his life. THAT is the point I'm trying to make here that you guys can't seem to acknowledge.


4. Again with your ridiculous assumptions. Stop reading other people's thoughts and opinions and lumping mine with theirs, okay? I believe Roger would low-end High dif a current Admiral. Their performance against the old, injured, and sick WB supports this and 90% of this thread agrees with that.

It's laughable how bad your reading comprehension is. You've responded to more than I've said.

If Whitebeards attack was as devastating as you've attempted to portray then Sakazuki wouldn't have been able to dominate all of the people I had listed. That was my point. Especially with regards to Marco who is certainly capable of fighting an Admiral and forcing the Admiral into a serious fight. Yet somehow Sakazuki was able to manhandle Marco, showing that in actual fact Whitebeards attack didn't even inhibit Sakazuki in the slightest. Yes, it will have hurt him (I never said it didn't), but it didn't even injure him.

Sakazuki clearly wasn't immobilised because that would imply serious injury and shock. His later performance during the war (only mere minutes his frolicking with Whitebeard) show otherwise. This you cannot refute.

Do you seriously expect Sakazuki to jump mid air out of a trench? I know he could have done it with Rokushiki but Oda needed to take him out of the picture, this in itself is open to interpretation but it doesn't mean he was paralysed (if he was it wouldn't last 10 seconds and he certainly wouldn't continue fighting). Sakazuki's attack that blew off half of his head and burnt his internal organs was the decisive catalyst that would kill Whitebeard. Blackbeards crew just sped up his death. If the fight between Newgate and Sakazuki was to continue then the fight would've ended up killing them both.

And because they both could have died it's hardly a one sided fight. Sakazuki made the more damaging blows. An old age Whitebeard couldn't do anything to Kuzan, and couldn't do anything to Borsalino during their short spats. And against Sakazuki in an isolated 1v1 fight he was on the back foot for the majority of the time. And even dealt the first blow as a surprise attack to gain the upper hand. He knew he could no longer beat Sakazuki.

In his prime Whitebeard would have won, but that was no longer the case in Marineford. Against popular belief I thought Whitebeard was the weakest Yonkou (because of his age) when the battle took place.

Roger and Whitebeard were always on the same pegging as Marine Admirals. They wouldn't ever defeat an Admiral with anything less than extreme difficulty.

The majority thinks Roger can mid diff an Admiral. Re read the thread, you'll see this to be true. You have to remember this is Narutobase and not OroJackson or MilleniumForums

Good additions. You think Marco could be there?

What's the list so far?

 

[silmarill]

You can beat someone and be in the exact same tier as them dude Lol

By the way, is this a new trend in the One Piece section? Cuz, I keep seeing it these past few weeks, people going ¨Oh you're angry¨ or ¨You're upset" every time someone replies to their arguments with a rebuttal. It's pretty cheap, and most times, including this one, the person saying ¨Why are you angry¨ is the one sounding like his jeremies have been wrestled, not the person he's copping out to.

It depends how many 'tiers' u believe there are
In your case it's probably 3 or something
easy , normal and high
A'm not wrestled , u just MUST learn some manners instead of you're belittling sarcasm and whatnot

 

[Punk Hazard]

It depends how many 'tiers' u believe there are
In your case it's probably 3 or something
easy , normal and high
A'm not wrestled , u just MUST learn some manners instead of you're belittling sarcasm and whatnot

I'll be damned if the guy who starts his post off with ¨why are you *****ing¨ is now lecturing me on being polite.

Nah, that's not how I list them. That makes no sense anyways; your fighting level is normal?
¨How strong is that guy?¨
¨Easy.¨

Doesn't compute.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

I'll be damned if the guy who starts his post off with ¨why are you *****ing¨ is now lecturing me on being polite.

Nah, that's not how I list them. That makes no sense anyways; your fighting level is normal?
¨How strong is that guy?¨
¨Easy.¨

Doesn't compute.

Who's on your list of "those who could fight Roger"?

 

[Vandenre1ch]

WB, Garp, Shiki, Shanks, Dragon, Akainu, Big Mam, Kaiodu, Aokiji, Teach, Sengoku, Mihawk, Fujitora, Kizaru and Green Bull can all fight Roger and push him extreme diff.

Roger is no god and I know why people think that.
Step 1-Say Old WB was the weakest yonkou
Step 2-Say Shanks, Kaidou, Big Mam>Old WB
Step 3-Say Pirme WB>Shanks, Kaidou, Big Mam
Step 4-Say Roger>Prime WB because he was PK even though it was directly said they were equal.
Step 5-Think Roger is God

 

[ssjelf]

All the more reason the second fight doesn't count in the context that people are trying to use it in. You can't list all the reasons why Akainu coming out on top in the first fight isn't legitimate, then go on to say that that fight is in the same light as the second, as they ¨even out¨, then use the second fight as a legitimate reason as to why Whitebeard low diffs Akainu.


I was referring to the first fight. Akainu wasn't damaged at all there, nor did he struggle.


And getting punched to the ground by Whitebeard didn't slow down Akainu either. He was able to get back up and immediately land a major blow despite being in pain.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The only people who we know are injured in this picture are Marco and Crocodile. While fighting for a while, there's no indication any of the others are injured enough so that their merit is gone. And what? No, Blackbeard is not stronger than all of Whitebeard's commanders, along with the tons of other pirates standing behind them. His measly crew, the majority of which couldn't even handle Ace, definitely aren't stronger than WB's commanders at that time.

You can't stop yourself from falling into a cavern when all of the ground around you is falling with you.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

As can clearly be seen here, the bottom of the cavern was filled with water. If Akainu was too paralyzed to move, he would have fell into the water and died. Instead, he was able to burrow into the ground while falling and travel through the earth. Akainu wasn't too ¨paralyzed to save himself¨, saving himself is exactly what he did.
What's said is that you really think a sickened, old Whitebeard can't defeat Akainu in two hits Lol

When did I say that? A Prime Whitebeard can beat Akainu, and Akainu can beat a Prime Whitebeard, and it's gonna be high-diff on both ends. You have no argument. Your argument is ¨Old Whitebeard didn't die against Akainu and made a hole for him to fall in, so obviously he can defeat Akainu in two punches and Roger can do the same.¨


Right? People here are severely underestimating Admirals. The strongest fighters within the Marines and defenders of the WG can't hold off the Pirate King? I don't buy it.

My argument is that Akainu was saved by luck. Had the fight continued WB would have won, I think that should be obvious. It took the majority of the marines best forces to hold back whitebeards alliance. And they barely did that. IDK if WB with his entire alliance is stronger than Rogers crew (it was implied shikis alliance was stronger in chapter 0) but I think they are simply because of numbers. (I also don't know if Roger had his own alliance) I think that Rogers crew is of a similar caliber to WB's alliance though because when shanks showed up at marineford, no one wanted to fight him even though he was only one ship worth of fighters meaning that even if he wasn't at WB alliance level, he was still strong enough to make the marines stop fighting. I think Roger would be able to do the same thing and more.

This is all to say that Roger himself certainly has the power to stand up to an admiral, and I beleive that if one admiral was enough to take him out, he wouldn't have been pirate king. Garp and Roger were said to have almost killed each other many times and garp is also said to be the strongest marine. This means that Garp extremes diffs Roger or vice versa. It wouldn't make sense if roger extreme diffed an admiral. Roger can't beat all the marines and neither will luffy, but fighting one admiral is not the same as fighting them all.

Once again if we say that old whitebeard can extreme diff akainu why can't roger high diff akainu. Roger>Prime WB>Old WB>Akainu.

 

[ssjelf]

WB, Garp, Shiki, Shanks, Dragon, Akainu, Big Mam, Kaiodu, Aokiji, Teach, Sengoku, Mihawk, Fujitora, Kizaru and Green Bull can all fight Roger and push him extreme diff.

Roger is no god and I know why people think that.
Step 1-Say Old WB was the weakest yonkou
Step 2-Say Shanks, Kaidou, Big Mam>Old WB
Step 3-Say Pirme WB>Shanks, Kaidou, Big Mam
Step 4-Say Roger>Prime WB because he was PK even though it was directly said they were equal.
Step 5-Think Roger is God

You have a flaw in your logic, WB was specifically stated to be the strongest man in the world even when he was old. Therefore he is the strongest Yonkou. Therefore PrimeWB>>Yonkou. And yes roger is PK, he had to have been better than WB.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Someone give Silmarill a vicodin.

Who's on your list of "those who could fight Roger"?

Kuzan
Akainu
Mihawk
Shanks
Kaido
Big Mom
Most likely Teach
The Gorosei
Kong
Kizaru

Based on who we've seen, excluding figures of the old era

My argument is that Akainu was saved by luck. Had the fight continued WB would have won

So you're saying Blackbeard's crew at that moment in time could have defeated Akainu? Okay.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You have a flaw in your logic, WB was specifically stated to be the strongest man in the world even when he was old. Therefore he is the strongest Yonkou. Therefore PrimeWB>>Yonkou. And yes roger is PK, he had to have been better than WB.

Actually, Whitebeard stated he doesn't care about the title of Pirate King. Or more specifically, he doesn't care to do the thing that earns one the title of Pirate King, he just wanted a family. For all we know, Whitebeard could have been Pirate King, and the only reason Roger became Pirate King instead of WB was because Newgate simply didn't want to.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Someone give Silmarill a vicodin.


Kuzan
Akainu
Mihawk
Shanks
Kaido
Big Mom
Most likely Teach
The Gorosei
Kong
Kizaru

Based on who we've seen, excluding figures of the old era


So you're saying Blackbeard's crew at that moment in time could have defeated Akainu? Okay.

Yeah I was gonna say you missed Rayleigh, most probably Gabban, Shiki, Whitebeard, Garp, Zephyr and Sengoku haha (Wasn't Kong and at least three of the Gorosei from that era?), from the current era...

Fujitora and Ryokugyu most probably should be added. I don't think it would be a longshot to say Marco could force Roger to fight seriously too and possibly Magellan (depending on how strong his Haki is if he can even use it)...

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

WB, Garp, Shiki, Shanks, Dragon, Akainu, Big Mam, Kaiodu, Aokiji, Teach, Sengoku, Mihawk, Fujitora, Kizaru and Green Bull can all fight Roger and push him extreme diff.

Roger is no god and I know why people think that.
Step 1-Say Old WB was the weakest yonkou
Step 2-Say Shanks, Kaidou, Big Mam>Old WB
Step 3-Say Pirme WB>Shanks, Kaidou, Big Mam
Step 4-Say Roger>Prime WB because he was PK even though it was directly said they were equal.
Step 5-Think Roger is God

So I guess the Straw Hat and Heart Pirate Alliance can beat Roger since they're supposed to defeat Kaido, who can push Roger to extreme diff according to you.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yeah I was gonna say you missed Rayleigh, most probably Gabban, Shiki, Whitebeard, Garp, Zephyr and Sengoku haha (Wasn't Kong and at least three of the Gorosei from that era?), from the current era...

Fujitora and Ryokugyu most probably should be added. I don't think it would be a longshot to say Marco could force Roger to fight seriously too and possibly Magellan (depending on how strong his Haki is if he can even use it)...

I'm pretty sure there are 5 people in the Gorosei at one time(Go means 5 in Japanese).

Yeah, add Fuji and Ryokugyu there too.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

You have a flaw in your logic, WB was specifically stated to be the strongest man in the world even when he was old. Therefore he is the strongest Yonkou. Therefore PrimeWB>>Yonkou. And yes roger is PK, he had to have been better than WB.

This is the replay I was looking for. You are ASSUMING that Prime WB>>Yonkou/Admirals. At what difficulty would Prime WB beat Old WB? Extreme diff. Is the difference in strength big? Or is it just a miniscule margin? Based on what happened in the manga its the latter.