Right? People here are severely underestimating Admirals. The strongest fighters within the Marines and defenders of the WG can't hold off the Pirate King? I don't buy it.
I was saying bajram was right about Luffy still needing a threat or the Manga gets boring... Which is true
Kuzan and Sakazuki ended up being better off than Whitebeard in their fights, albeit he took cumulative damage, it shows that the Admirals were by no means pushovers like everyone seems to think.
They've bought into this idea what Roger is like the Aizen of One Piece, or something along those ridiculous lines. I don't know where that came from. We know he was equal to Whitebeard and we saw that Whitebeard was not in any way above the Admirals.
I was saying bajram was right about Luffy still needing a threat or the Manga gets boring... Which is true
Kuzan and Sakazuki ended up being better off than Whitebeard in their fights, albeit he took cumulative damage, it shows that the Admirals were by no means pushovers like everyone seems to think.
They've bought into this idea what Roger is like the Aizen of One Piece, or something along those ridiculous lines. I don't know where that came from. We know he was equal to Whitebeard and we saw that Whitebeard was not in any way above the Admirals.
LOL Rayleigh was getting fatigued in a short period of time. Kizaru would of defeated him mid diff, seeing how Rayleigh was retired. If Rayleigh wasn't retired, then Kizaru would win high diff.
OT: I don't think Roger had it that easy where he could just mid diff an admiral. I'd like to think high diff. but that's being a bit generous. I'd give him high diff. since he was seen as the strongest. The gap shouldn't be that big seeing how there were 2 pirates that matched up to Roger's strength (Shiki/WB), not to mention there must of been other pirates that were close to Roger's strength during his era. That would mean that the admirals would of been pretty weak compared to the top tier pirates which sounds dumb. High-extreme diff is my pick.
All the more reason the second fight doesn't count in the context that people are trying to use it in. You can't list all the reasons why Akainu coming out on top in the first fight isn't legitimate, then go on to say that that fight is in the same light as the second, as they ¨even out¨, then use the second fight as a legitimate reason as to why Whitebeard low diffs Akainu.
I was referring to the first fight. Akainu wasn't damaged at all there, nor did he struggle.
And getting punched to the ground by Whitebeard didn't slow down Akainu either. He was able to get back up and immediately land a major blow despite being in pain.
You must be registered for see images
The only people who we know are injured in this picture are Marco and Crocodile. While fighting for a while, there's no indication any of the others are injured enough so that their merit is gone. And what? No, Blackbeard is not stronger than all of Whitebeard's commanders, along with the tons of other pirates standing behind them. His measly crew, the majority of which couldn't even handle Ace, definitely aren't stronger than WB's commanders at that time.
You can't stop yourself from falling into a cavern when all of the ground around you is falling with you.
You must be registered for see images
As can clearly be seen here, the bottom of the cavern was filled with water. If Akainu was too paralyzed to move, he would have fell into the water and died. Instead, he was able to burrow into the ground while falling and travel through the earth. Akainu wasn't too ¨paralyzed to save himself¨, saving himself is exactly what he did.
What's said is that you really think a sickened, old Whitebeard can't defeat Akainu in two hits Lol
When did I say that? A Prime Whitebeard can beat Akainu, and Akainu can beat a Prime Whitebeard, and it's gonna be high-diff on both ends. You have no argument. Your argument is ¨Old Whitebeard didn't die against Akainu and made a hole for him to fall in, so obviously he can defeat Akainu in two punches and Roger can do the same.¨
Right? People here are severely underestimating Admirals. The strongest fighters within the Marines and defenders of the WG can't hold off the Pirate King? I don't buy it.
That was by no stretch of the imagination a 'fight'. The old man was hacking up blood and bent over in pain and Akainu simply took advantage of that moment and blew a hole in his chest. You are, for whatever reason, attempting to use that as some credible feat when it is something that even Ace could have done. When BB took the same advantage in the exact same scenario he was able to injure WB with mere bullets. Him and his weakling cronies. They defeated WB with little damage (from him) and didn't struggle at all. But I doubt you'd argue that it was a legitimate testament of their strength.
But for some reason you're applying that ridiculous logic here to support Akainu.
"You can't stop yourself from falling into a cavern when all of the ground around you is falling with you."
Oh please, we both know that is just silly. You're trying to tell me that Akainu was relatively undamaged after that blow from WB and couldn't finish him off because the ground below him was caving in? Really? A Navy HQ admiral is so helpless that he couldn't jump from that platform which was more than large enough for two of him to stand on outside the whole it hasn't even completely entered yet? That's a feat 10 year old Ace/Sabo are capable of.
Akainu is a man of action. Just about everything he did during the paramount war proves this. He took every opportunity available to accomplish the mission at hand. As he collapsed from WB's second blow in their "second" fight he yelled WB's name, cursing him. Why would Akainu, if able to move, simply bellow in anguish and helplessly fall into a pit when all he need do is jump. Or use his magma to propel himself which he's done before. Why? Because he couldn't. He was completely immobilized from WB's attack thus could not stop himself from falling. The pit was simply a plot mechanic used by Oda to keep WB from killing Akainu. That is common knowledge.
Also, why did it take Akainu so long to reappear? If he just caught himself as you say then he should have been back above ground in seconds. What was the delay?
For Whatever reason you are furiously wanking Akainu. Please, let's get real.
That was by no stretch of the imagination a 'fight'. The old man was hacking up blood and bent over in pain and Akainu simply took advantage of that moment and blew a hole in his chest. You are, for whatever reason, attempting to use that as some credible feat when it is something that even Ace could have done. When BB took the same advantage in the exact same scenario he was able to injure WB with mere bullets. Him and his weakling cronies. They defeated WB with little damage (from him) and didn't struggle at all. But I doubt you'd argue that it was a legitimate testament of their strength.
But for some reason you're applying that ridiculous logic here to support Akainu.
"You can't stop yourself from falling into a cavern when all of the ground around you is falling with you."
Oh please, we both know that is just silly. You're trying to tell me that Akainu was relatively undamaged after that blow from WB and couldn't finish him off because the ground below him was caving in? Really? A Navy HQ admiral is so helpless that he couldn't jump from that platform which was more than large enough for two of him to stand on outside the whole it hasn't even completely entered yet? That's a feat 10 year old Ace/Sabo are capable of.
Akainu is a man of action. Just about everything he did during the paramount war proves this. He took every opportunity available to accomplish the mission at hand. As he collapsed from WB's second blow in their "second" fight he yelled WB's name, cursing him. Why would Akainu, if able to move, simply bellow in anguish and helplessly fall into a pit when all he need do is jump. Or use his magma to propel himself which he's done before. Why? Because he couldn't. He was completely immobilized from WB's attack thus could not stop himself from falling. The pit was simply a plot mechanic used by Oda to keep WB from killing Akainu. That is common knowledge.
Also, why did it take Akainu so long to reappear? If he just caught himself as you say then he should have been back above ground in seconds. What was the delay?
For Whatever reason you are furiously wanking Akainu. Please, let's get real.
Would just like to say that Sakazuki was relatively undamaged. If he wasn't then explain how he got up as if nothing happened and got back to the battlefield, dominated Marco and Vista at the same time (both of whom are at least as strong as Doflamingo, an enemy Luffy couldn't hope to beat without Laws help), this shows us just how strong an Admiral is.
Crocodile, Jinbe, Ace, Marco, Vista. ALL were powerless before him. Don't think of me as a Sakazuki fanboy. I'm just telling it how it is. You can't deny he defeated Ace in one hit. Do you REALLY think that he would've been able to do all this if Whitebeards attacks had taken a large toll on him? No. I think not.
It didn't even take Sakazuki long to reappear either. Consider the number of scenes Oda had to address. In terms of chapters it took him 8, I believe. However, if that was real time we're talking a minute or two.
Can I just ask: how strong do you think Roger was? Do you seriously think he never faced a threat other than Whitebeard? What a boring Manga One Piece will become when Luffy becomes that strong...
That was by no stretch of the imagination a 'fight'. The old man was hacking up blood and bent over in pain and Akainu simply took advantage of that moment and blew a hole in his chest. You are, for whatever reason, attempting to use that as some credible feat when it is something that even Ace could have done. When BB took the same advantage in the exact same scenario he was able to injure WB with mere bullets. Him and his weakling cronies. They defeated WB with little damage (from him) and didn't struggle at all. But I doubt you'd argue that it was a legitimate testament of their strength.
But for some reason you're applying that ridiculous logic here to support Akainu.
Not really. I actually agree, neither of those were ¨fights¨, and neither was defeated in either case. I'm not trying to use it as a credible feat, I'm showing another side of what happened with Akainu vs Whitebeard. Many people seem to think that the second ¨fight¨ is the end-all-be-all of what would happen if Akainu and Whitebeard fought. The point of posting the above is to show that Whitebeard isn't just gonna be able to curbstomp Akainu 10/10 times like so many people here want to believe. The thing is, the first ¨fight¨ between Whitebeard and Akainu is far more legitimate than the second because they went toe-to-toe and Whitebeard's lack of health impacted him. There was no funny business or sneak shots.
"You can't stop yourself from falling into a cavern when all of the ground around you is falling with you."
Oh please, we both know that is just silly. You're trying to tell me that Akainu was relatively undamaged after that blow from WB and couldn't finish him off because the ground below him was caving in? Really? A Navy HQ admiral is so helpless that he couldn't jump from that platform which was more than large enough for two of him to stand on outside the whole it hasn't even completely entered yet? That's a feat 10 year old Ace/Sabo are capable of. Akainu is a man of action. Just about everything he did during the paramount war proves this. He took every opportunity available to accomplish the mission at hand. As he collapsed from WB's second blow in their "second" fight he yelled WB's name, cursing him. Why would Akainu, if able to move, simply bellow in anguish and helplessly fall into a pit when all he need do is jump. Or use his magma to propel himself which he's done before. Why? Because he couldn't. He was completely immobilized from WB's attack thus could not stop himself from falling. The pit was simply a plot mechanic used by Oda to keep WB from killing Akainu. That is common knowledge.
No, I don't think he was relatively undamaged(seriously, are people blind to the ¨In the first fight¨ part, or are you guys masters of selective reading?). He took a direct blow from Whitebeard while his guard was down, so of course he was going to feel it. If it was a face-to-face encounter, Akainu would have been able to either handle the blow much better or avoid it altogether. Akainu wasn't able to spring back up and strike Whitebeard because he received no damage, but in spite of the damage he took. The second blow did even more damage, as the output of power was immense and created that cavern. It hit Akainu hard, and he was stunned, but it wasn't enough to defeat him. As I said before, Jozu is someone who was defeated, he was put out of commission for the rest of the war. Akainu was able to fight even harder, so he was in no way defeated.
Whitebeard was cursing at Akainu in their first encounter as well.
What? We never saw a 10-year-old Sabo or Ace capable of launching themselves up that high. Could have Akainu have launched himself up? Yeah, most likely, but he was stunned. Being momentarily stunned by an attack is not the same as being defeated, and it does not mean he would have been defeated had the fight continued. After that, as you mentioned, Whitebeard was weak enough to be defeated by Teach's cronies. Akainu on the other hand was able to fight with Whitebeard's commanders, Crocodile and many of their allies, and have enough strength left to sufficiently make it past them alive. If the fight had continued between Whitebeard and Akainu, it's clear Akainu would have gained the upper hand and defeated Whitebeard.
Also, why did it take Akainu so long to reappear? If he just caught himself as you say then he should have been back above ground in seconds. What was the delay?
The images failed due to NB's stupid censoring, so I don't know if you saw how deep that cavern was. Akainu had to melt into the earth, and then travel through it as magma. Magma melting and moving through the earth is not a quick process, not to mention he has to move upwards against the gravity while in transformed state and he was looking for Luffy.
For Whatever reason you are furiously wanking Akainu. Please, let's get real.
I already explained multiple times why i believe that and i'm not gonna bother explaining it again. If you believe otherwise so be it, but you'd be contradicting the manga portrayal
Same with me, I have tried to do that a couple of times but when they get caught in their own words and simply stop the debate.
And the continuous repeat of WB sneak attacking Akainu is such a load of crap. WB came and stood behind Akainu and half the marine fodder on MF was yelling Akainu Please for gods sake look behind you, but no and he got *****slaped by a deign old buzzard. I mean just look at the audacity of such a claim where a complete manga box of marines yelling to tell akainu that WB was behind him was ignored and they just keep ranting that stupid shit.
Next in the list is the fight between kizaru and Rayleigh, An old ass pirate who retired almost 20 years back (Ray) actually cut across Kizaru's face even with his light like speed (and we are talking about an admiral who is at the peak of his youth). But no this is ignored beacause there were some sweat droplets forming on ray's head, which means he will loose, I mean WTF? is this even real point of debate or just fanwanking kizaru?
Same with me, I have tried to do that a couple of times but when they get caught in their own words and simply stop the debate.
And the continuous repeat of WB sneak attacking Akainu is such a load of crap. WB came and stood behind Akainu and half the marine fodder on MF was yelling Akainu Please for gods sake look behind you, but no and he got *****slaped by a deign old buzzard. I mean just look at the audacity of such a claim where a complete manga box of marines yelling to tell akainu that WB was behind him was ignored and they just keep ranting that stupid shit.
Next in the list is the fight between kizaru and Rayleigh, An old ass pirate who retired almost 20 years back (Ray) actually cut across Kizaru's face even with his light like speed (and we are talking about an admiral who is at the peak of his youth). But no this is ignored beacause there were some sweat droplets forming on ray's head, which means he will loose, I mean WTF? is this even real point of debate or just fanwanking kizaru?
Next in the list is the fight between kizaru and Rayleigh, An old ass pirate who retired almost 20 years back (Ray) actually cut across Kizaru's face even with his light like speed (and we are talking about an admiral who is at the peak of his youth). But no this is ignored beacause there were some sweat droplets forming on ray's head, which means he will loose, I mean WTF? is this even real point of debate or just fanwanking kizaru?
Lol ? It was a small cut and it's not like any of us here were arguing that Kizaru will come out of the battle unscathed. Kizaru would of won that battle with Rayleigh at mid diff, Rayleigh was getting fatigued quickly and it wasn't looking that great for him. However, if old Rayleigh hadn't retired, Kizaru would still win but at high diff.
FYI, it was a small minor cut (that cut wasn't hindering him in the battle whatsoever) and Kizaru wasn't moving at the speed of light at the time. Basically, Rayleigh just used CoO to predict where Kizaru will to move next and intercepted him. Those "sweat droplets" are a clear indication that he would of lost if the battle had continued. It was Oda's way of having Rayleigh be badass by protecting the SH's but at the same time show to the readers that Rayleigh couldn't have defeated Kizaru if the battle continued. Like I said before, he was getting fatigued and in doing so Kizaru would win.
Lol ? It was a small cut and it's not like any of us here were arguing that Kizaru will come out of the battle unscathed. Kizaru would of won that battle with Rayleigh at mid diff, Rayleigh was getting fatigued quickly and it wasn't looking that great for him. However, if old Rayleigh hadn't retired, Kizaru would still win but at high diff.
FYI, it was a small minor cut (that cut wasn't hindering him in the battle whatsoever) and Kizaru wasn't moving at the speed of light at the time. Basically, Rayleigh just used CoO to predict where Kizaru will to move next and intercepted him. Those "sweat droplets" are a clear indication that he would of lost if the battle had continued. It was Oda's way of having Rayleigh be badass by protecting the SH's but at the same time show to the readers that Rayleigh couldn't have defeated Kizaru if the battle continued. Like I said before, he was getting fatigued and in doing so Kizaru would win.
Exactly. Not to mention that Kizaru himself isn't predominantly a swordsman while Rayleigh was. Though Rayleigh was indeed rusty, his strength had dipped to a level that he was getting tired while Kizaru played with him in what wasn't even the latter's main combat style but was the former's. No matter how you look at it, Kizaru could have defeated Rayleigh.
Would just like to say that Sakazuki was relatively undamaged. If he wasn't then explain how he got up as if nothing happened and got back to the battlefield, dominated Marco and Vista at the same time (both of whom are at least as strong as Doflamingo, an enemy Luffy couldn't hope to beat without Laws help), this shows us just how strong an Admiral is.
Crocodile, Jinbe, Ace, Marco, Vista. ALL were powerless before him. Don't think of me as a Sakazuki fanboy. I'm just telling it how it is. You can't deny he defeated Ace in one hit. Do you REALLY think that he would've been able to do all this if Whitebeards attacks had taken a large toll on him? No. I think not.
It didn't even take Sakazuki long to reappear either. Consider the number of scenes Oda had to address. In terms of chapters it took him 8, I believe. However, if that was real time we're talking a minute or two.
Can I just ask: how strong do you think Roger was? Do you seriously think he never faced a threat other than Whitebeard? What a boring Manga One Piece will become when Luffy becomes that strong...
1. Relatively undamaged my foot. Yes he was still mobile, yes he was still fighting but he was certainly not undamaged. WB was fighting Akainu man-to-man, having been stabbed through the chest, impaled with a magma fist, countless gun wounds, and suffering from a crippling ailment. Not to mention going on to fight BB afterwards.
Am I going to say he's "relatively undamaged" because he's still fighting? No, that would be silly.
2. No one is short-changing Akainu or anything of the sort. I have no idea why you're listing the people he fought.
3. (And probably the biggest misconception in your understanding of my argument) I not ONCE said that second punch critically damaged him. I didn't even imply such a thing. I stated that it immobilized him and was the reason he could not stop himself from falling into that pit. Had the pit not been there he'd have layed there immobilized for the short time he was and gotten finished by WB. I never claimed he took signficant damage from that punch but it was enough to immobilize him for at least 10 seconds. Otherwise he wouldn't have fallen into that pit. That 10 seconds would have cost Sakazuki his life. THAT is the point I'm trying to make here that you guys can't seem to acknowledge.
4. Again with your ridiculous assumptions. Stop reading other people's thoughts and opinions and lumping mine with theirs, okay? I believe Roger would low-end High dif a current Admiral. Their performance against the old, injured, and sick WB supports this and 90% of this thread agrees with that.
Roger isnt in a tier of his own, Dragon, Garp, Whitebeard, Shanks, Sengoku, Akainu, ... All fit into that tier as well and in the future more characters will get there like Luffy and (if he isnt yet) Blackbeard, we also know next to nothing about Kong and the Gorosei
Roger isnt in a tier of his own, Dragon, Garp, Whitebeard, Shanks, Sengoku, Akainu, ... All fit into that tier as well and in the future more characters will get there like Luffy and (if he isnt yet) Blackbeard, we also know next to nothing about Kong and the Gorosei
If he is not in his own tier together with Whitebeard and Garp why no one mentioned Sengoku or Kong or whoever else could fight equally with the PK
It was specifically said WB was the only one who could stalemate Roger , there was no mention of any other admiral that could do the same
Roger isnt in a tier of his own, Dragon, Garp, Whitebeard, Shanks, Sengoku, Akainu, ... All fit into that tier as well and in the future more characters will get there like Luffy and (if he isnt yet) Blackbeard, we also know next to nothing about Kong and the Gorosei
If he is not in his own tier together with Whitebeard and Garp why no one mentioned Sengoku or Kong or whoever else could fight equally with the PK
It was specifically said WB was the only one who could stalemate Roger , there was no mention of any other admiral that could do the same
I haven't read the updated list yet of the 20 people who can fight equally with Roger, I always thought it was only one for some reason..where can I find it
Ye ok man if Oda specifically hammered on the fact only WB could rival the PK his strength to me it means they are a tier (even if it's small) above the rest
I haven't read the updated list yet of the 20 people who can fight equally with Roger, I always thought it was only one for some reason..where can I find it
As Corazon said above, being in the same tier does not mean your strength is even. If Whitebeard was stronger than Roger, then there strength was along the lines of 100 and 99.9. Whitebeard stalemated Roger, as did Garp and Sengoku, the difference in between the strength of these men are paper thin. Shanks, Kaido, Mihawk, they can all still be in the same tier and the gap can be bigger.
Not only that, but the people you are listing are said to be the last remaining major figures of the previous era that were still active. That's why their names were always mentioned with each other like that. Kaido, Shanks, Mihawk, they're not major figures of the previous Pirate Age, they're major figures of the new, current one, which is why their names aren't lumped in with them.
Notice the phrasings each time were ¨Roger and Garp always cornered each other" or ¨Whitebeard and Roger were fierce rivals¨ or ¨Garp and Sengoku could do this and that." It was always people saying what happened during that age, not them saying that these man stand above each and every single person alive in their own little tier.
