You people want plot-holes and PNJ?? Let's talk everybody's favorite; Deathnote. Where half the story is good and consistent, up to the point that the most characteristic person dies, making the main character basicly usless, untill EVERYBODY gets a fuccing deathnote, and the most characteristic gets reencarnated through a 12 year old albino kid.
But a story running for a decade with total consistancy, is somehow full of holes,..
Yeah, logic is the argument.
You people want plot-holes and PNJ?? Let's talk everybody's favorite; Deathnote. Where half the story is good and consistent, up to the point that the most characteristic person dies, making the main character basicly usless, untill EVERYBODY gets a fuccing deathnote, and the most characteristic gets reencarnated through a 12 year old albino kid.
LMFAO! I know....I was like wtf is this....and then an entire group of 'L's comes out of nowhere..... It was pretty enjoyable until that point though....
You people just can't admit you're too butt hurt to let your favourite character go, that you cannot accept their death because you were too damn attached! Well BOO FREAKIN HOO! Kisame is dead, Sasori is dead, Itachi is dead, Deidara is dead, Kakuzu is dead, Hidan is gone, Pain is dead, Nagato is dead!
Accept the story the way its told, the way it goes! You are just ruining the complete experience for yourselves!
The entire story is one gigantic plot! There is no plot no jutsu, no talk no jutsu, no plot holes and no asspulls!
I do believe in PNJ and TNJ. I enjoy the story coming at peace with the inevitability. U however seems butthurt.
Advice: Dont get butt hurt over others.
Question: I have already accepted the tragic fate of edo madara, have u? Will u? even when he dies from STD from the juubi?
LMFAO! I know....I was like wtf is this....and then an entire group of 'L's comes out of nowhere..... It was pretty enjoyable until that point though....
I hated that,.. it became uninteressting after L died. The main battle was over, so they tried to make up for it by creating another socially akward character. I finished the serie, but I was kinda dissapointed at the end.
L vs. Kira was just epic, like Bats vs. Joker. They should've kept him alive, or ended the story right there.
I do believe in PNJ and TNJ. I enjoy the story coming at peace with the inevitability. U however seems butthurt.
Advice: Dont get butt hurt over others.
Question: I have already accepted the tragic fate of edo madara, have u? Will u? even when he dies from STD from the juubi?
His point is that people claim it's PNJ when they can't explain why a character dies, eventhough the reasons are clear and the logic sound.
It's in scientific terms called; Argument from ignorance, or from ignorance to argument. Claiming you know exactly what's the problem without doing the research.
It's actually you who are ignorant. Claiming you know that Naturo is 100% perfect and has no plot holes. You not going to accept my words anyway and the other guy will tell , he completely agrees with you. You guys are no different than the members who claim sasuke or any other character is the best.
Explain how Naruto beats Nagato if it's not due to PNJ.
How did he escape Logic.
Explain 1 to 1 no prep how SM Naruto defeats Nagato even if he's the main char :|
SM Naruto was defeating Nagato....once SM ran out Nagato got the upper hand. Besides, it's completely fair if it came down to Naruto using the kyuubis power to help fight against Nagato. You could say "well the kyuubi isn't really his power blah blah blah", get over it. He's a jinchuriki, and its not like Nagato uses his 'own' power(the rinnegan was Madara's). So how about this, take away the kyuubi and rinnegan, then it would be SM Naruto vs Normal Nagato......Naruto wins. Alright I'm done venting, I just hate when people bring up that fight and say Naruto was saved by plot
SM Naruto was defeating Nagato....once SM ran out Nagato got the upper hand. Besides, it's completely fair if it came down to Naruto using the kyuubis power to help fight against Nagato. You could say "well the kyuubi isn't really his power blah blah blah", get over it. He's a jinchuriki, and its not like Nagato uses his 'own' power(the rinnegan was Madara's). So how about this, take away the kyuubi and rinnegan, then it would be SM Naruto vs Normal Nagato......Naruto wins. Alright I'm done venting, I just hate when people bring up that fight and say Naruto was saved by plot
You never actually explained anything. You said take away this and that , and Naruto wins. We are not talking about who wins in a normal mode here. It's about whether plot holes exist or not. Try explaining the logic of how naruto won?
What? It is great logic. A puppet has less mass than an actual human. Therefore Chiyo receives less resistance when moving the puppet than she would when moving Sakura, thus the puppet would travel faster. Sakura never moved no where near fast on her own, even with Chiyo's help, why should her speed reach that high? Are you serious?
Yes, read the manga, or just her introduction for that matter.
Once again, the blast is already at its pinnacle, how does Sasuke have the time to:
1) Summon Manda
2) Turn on Sharingan
3) Genjutsu Manda
4) Jump in Manda's mouth
5) Reverse Kuchiyose
B is the blast, SF is Sasuke's Face:
[SF<-B]
Once again, how the hell does he have all that time to do that with the blast in his face??? Not to mention Sasuke is in a condition where he can't even stand and arguably out of chakra. So try harder explaining that plot no jutsu.
It's sarcasm, once again proof pro-PNJ's don't get simple stuff.
Yea, my comment was also sarcasm, see how I did that? You're making it seem as if sarcasm is automatically detected over the Internet; I fell into your sarcasm trap, but you just fell into mine, good game.
easy, you missread it.
The Rikudou did NOT give his power to an Uchiha and a Senju.
He gave his occular and physical power to his sons, who would later give birth to future clans, like Uchiha and Senju.
Kakashi's explination of Hyuuga being older then Uchiha is still valid.
Funny, because Konoha was founded by the Senjuu (Hashirama) and the Uchiha (Madara), so how is the Hyuuga clan Konoha's oldest clan again? Good game.
And secondly, I didn't say he gave his power to an Uchiha and a Senjuu, I said he gave birth to those two clans. The son he gave his ocular prowess to became the Uchiha clan whilst the other, the Senjuu; Hyuuga is nowhere in this picture. Let's use common sense logic, if the Rinnegan is the ultimate dojutsu and the Sharingan is the predecessor to the Rinnegan that tells us what? It's Sharingan first, then Rinnegan, no Byakugan here. The Byakugan can be seen as a genetic mutation that differs from those dojutsus only sharing the relation with ocular presence. So once again, good game.
His point is that people claim it's PNJ when they can't explain why a character dies, eventhough the reasons are clear and the logic sound.
It's in scientific terms called; Argument from ignorance, or from ignorance to argument. Claiming you know exactly what's the problem without doing the research.
Explain this. Tobi had a solid 16 years to capture naruto and store him in his dimension for later use, but he didn't. Why? There is no reason other than the fact that Naruto would end without Naruto.
Secondly, how about explaining Kakashi's kamui. He had used it 5 times along with shadow clones which split the user's chakra in half, lightning blades, lightning chains, and lightning infused kunai ALL before even having his chakra resupplied by kurama.
Seeing as how the last time he used kamui was against Sasuke, and one kamui left him nearly on his knees from the strain on his chakra and body, 5 times seems impossible. This is ALSO giving him reasonable doubt and saying that he had regained ALL of his chakra from the war he just fought in for an entire day and night. Also the fact that kakashi literally died from chakra overuse when fighting pain after only using Kamui 2 times.
Even here at the very start of their fight he was worried about waiting chakra by using only a single shadow clone...
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Plot needed kakashi to live, so plot gave kakashi more chakra.
Explain this. Tobi had a solid 16 years to capture naruto and store him in his dimension for later use, but he didn't. Why? There is no reason other than the fact that Naruto would end without Naruto.
Secondly, how about explaining Kakashi's kamui. He had used it 5 times along with shadow clones which split the user's chakra in half, lightning blades, lightning chains, and lightning infused kunai ALL before even having his chakra resupplied by kurama.
Seeing as how the last time he used kamui was against Sasuke, and one kamui left him nearly on his knees from the strain on his chakra and body, 5 times seems impossible. This is ALSO giving him reasonable doubt and saying that he had regained ALL of his chakra from the war he just fought in for an entire day and night. Also the fact that kakashi literally died from chakra overuse when fighting pain after only using Kamui 2 times.
Even here at the very start of their fight he was worried about waiting chakra by using only a single shadow clone...
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Plot needed kakashi to live, so plot gave kakashi more chakra.
Kakashi does have better control, but why should we be inclined to believe that his chakra reserves increased that drastically from his bout with Pain, and his bout with Sasuke, to now where he can use Kamui like 5 times (amongst other jutsus like Raikiri and its variants) in succession?
The Kyuubi is supposed to be sealed last, which is why the poster above said, "store him... for later use"
Kakashi does have better control, but why should we be inclined to believe that his chakra reserves increased that drastically from his bout with Pain, and his bout with Sasuke, to now where he can use Kamui like 5 times (amongst other jutsus like Raikiri and its variants) in succession?
There's no reason he couldn't just store naruto in his dimension for later. And seeing as how Kisame was perfectly willing to capture naruto in part one when akatsuki had only 4-5 beasts, that's no argument at all.
Let’s assume Kakashi’s stamina has tripled in the three years since part one, which is a huge handicap I’m giving him.
Kakashi stated he could use Raikiri 4 times per day, max at the end of part I. At the start of part II he is shown to be able to use it around 7 times give or take.
Assuming his chakra use has tripled would mean he should be able to use Raikiri 12 times per day. As seen in his fight against Deidara, using kamui 2 times hospitalized him for a few weeks or so meaning Kamui at that time probably used around 24% of his chakra, as he used one shadow clone against Deidara which would put his chakra at 50% when using 2 kamui.
Kakashi’s improvement with kamui showed itself when he fought pain, as he used Kamui 2 times once again, although this time with the use of a lightning clone, doton walls, and lightning blades.
So in about half a year or so, Kakashi’s ability with kamui had increased very little aside from his aim.
Now, generally I’m putting the obito fight at around half a year after the pain fight. Going by his chakra reserve increase, he should be able to use Raikiri 12 times per day, and seeing how Kamui uses about 25% of his chakra, that means that each Kamui should use the same amount of chakra as 3 Raikiri.
When fighting Obito, Kakashi uses first a raikiri and then a shadow clone which helps him use a Raikiri chain (Which I will give him the BotD and say uses the same chakra as Raikiri).
He then tries to Kamui the Gedo Mazo’s head, which he does still have chakra to do. Once again, giving kakashi a little handicap, I’ll say his failed kamui used no chakra. However after that he uses raikiri on a kunai, meaning he has used 75% of his chakra so far meaning he should only be able to use 1 kamui. However he then goes on to use 5 kamui along with another raikiri and a doton wall.
You say he just got better with it? I just gave him a 3x boost in chakra and control in 1 year when in 3 he only increased his chakra by 50% over 3 years, WHILE having little to no training time between the Pain invasion and the war.
Look. I don't think you understand what people mean by the term "plot-no-jutsu". It's predominantly used in debates about characters relative strength, and in most cases means something like "extenuating circumstances".
No battle, in the Narutoverse, is a completely equal 1v1 situation, like people use in their comparisons of relative skill. Yet it is also battle which is used to demonstrate a character's skill. And thus, though Itachi "lost" to 3T Sasuke, he is still arguably superior to the MS version. Though Rock Lee lost to Gaara, I wouldn't bet on him losing to 1-tailed-mode Naruto, who utilizes more demon-chakra AND more techniques than the Naruto who beat Gaara.
You can also look at, for example, Naruto vs. Kiba in the Chuunin Exams. Kiba had more skill, and several methods of easily countering Naruto's abilities. Yet, he lost.
How could he have lost? He wasn't outsmarted. He wasn't outpowered or outspeeded. He lost because Naruto ate something which made him gassy that day.
PnJ is a term used to describe such a situation. Naruto, at the time of Pein's Invasion, WASN'T more powerful than the Six Paths. Yet he won. Jiraiya, according to Nagato, WAS, and yet he lost.
PnJ is utilized to describe a situation in which a character's demonstrated actions AREN'T actually demonstrative of their skill-level. No more, and no less.
Look. I don't think you understand what people mean by the term "plot-no-jutsu". It's predominantly used in debates about characters relative strength, and in most cases means something like "extenuating circumstances".
No battle, in the Narutoverse, is a completely equal 1v1 situation, like people use in their comparisons of relative skill. Yet it is also battle which is used to demonstrate a character's skill. And thus, though Itachi "lost" to 3T Sasuke, he is still arguably superior to the MS version. Though Rock Lee lost to Gaara, I wouldn't bet on him losing to 1-tailed-mode Naruto, who utilizes more demon-chakra AND more techniques than the Naruto who beat Gaara.
You can also look at, for example, Naruto vs. Kiba in the Chuunin Exams. Kiba had more skill, and several methods of easily countering Naruto's abilities. Yet, he lost.
How could he have lost? He wasn't outsmarted. He wasn't outpowered or outspeeded. He lost because Naruto ate something which made him gassy that day.
PnJ is a term used to describe such a situation. Naruto, at the time of Pein's Invasion, WASN'T more powerful than the Six Paths. Yet he won. Jiraiya, according to Nagato, WAS, and yet he lost.
PnJ is utilized to describe a situation in which a character's demonstrated actions AREN'T actually demonstrative of their skill-level. No more, and no less.
There's no reason he couldn't just store naruto in his dimension for later. And seeing as how Kisame was perfectly willing to capture naruto in part one when akatsuki had only 4-5 beasts, that's no argument at all.
Let’s assume Kakashi’s stamina has tripled in the three years since part one, which is a huge handicap I’m giving him.
Kakashi stated he could use Raikiri 4 times per day, max at the end of part I. At the start of part II he is shown to be able to use it around 7 times give or take.
Assuming his chakra use has tripled would mean he should be able to use Raikiri 12 times per day. As seen in his fight against Deidara, using kamui 2 times hospitalized him for a few weeks or so meaning Kamui at that time probably used around 24% of his chakra, as he used one shadow clone against Deidara which would put his chakra at 50% when using 2 kamui.
Kakashi’s improvement with kamui showed itself when he fought pain, as he used Kamui 2 times once again, although this time with the use of a lightning clone, doton walls, and lightning blades.
So in about half a year or so, Kakashi’s ability with kamui had increased very little aside from his aim.
Now, generally I’m putting the obito fight at around half a year after the pain fight. Going by his chakra reserve increase, he should be able to use Raikiri 12 times per day, and seeing how Kamui uses about 25% of his chakra, that means that each Kamui should use the same amount of chakra as 3 Raikiri.
When fighting Obito, Kakashi uses first a raikiri and then a shadow clone which helps him use a Raikiri chain (Which I will give him the BotD and say uses the same chakra as Raikiri).
He then tries to Kamui the Gedo Mazo’s head, which he does still have chakra to do. Once again, giving kakashi a little handicap, I’ll say his failed kamui used no chakra. However after that he uses raikiri on a kunai, meaning he has used 75% of his chakra so far meaning he should only be able to use 1 kamui. However he then goes on to use 5 kamui along with another raikiri and a doton wall.
You say he just got better with it? I just gave him a 3x boost in chakra and control in 1 year when in 3 he only increased his chakra by 50% over 3 years, WHILE having little to no training time between the Pain invasion and the war.
and i dont' know how to explain kakashi's chakra boost but you can't use the logic like you did in a manga
and it's was about nine-months and more or less from the pain fight because shikamaru showed naruto pregnant kurenai
and in the war it showed her holding her baby
There's no reason he couldn't just store naruto in his dimension for later. And seeing as how Kisame was perfectly willing to capture naruto in part one when akatsuki had only 4-5 beasts, that's no argument at all.
Let’s assume Kakashi’s stamina has tripled in the three years since part one, which is a huge handicap I’m giving him.
Kakashi stated he could use Raikiri 4 times per day, max at the end of part I. At the start of part II he is shown to be able to use it around 7 times give or take.
Assuming his chakra use has tripled would mean he should be able to use Raikiri 12 times per day. As seen in his fight against Deidara, using kamui 2 times hospitalized him for a few weeks or so meaning Kamui at that time probably used around 24% of his chakra, as he used one shadow clone against Deidara which would put his chakra at 50% when using 2 kamui.
Kakashi’s improvement with kamui showed itself when he fought pain, as he used Kamui 2 times once again, although this time with the use of a lightning clone, doton walls, and lightning blades.
So in about half a year or so, Kakashi’s ability with kamui had increased very little aside from his aim.
Now, generally I’m putting the obito fight at around half a year after the pain fight. Going by his chakra reserve increase, he should be able to use Raikiri 12 times per day, and seeing how Kamui uses about 25% of his chakra, that means that each Kamui should use the same amount of chakra as 3 Raikiri.
When fighting Obito, Kakashi uses first a raikiri and then a shadow clone which helps him use a Raikiri chain (Which I will give him the BotD and say uses the same chakra as Raikiri).
He then tries to Kamui the Gedo Mazo’s head, which he does still have chakra to do. Once again, giving kakashi a little handicap, I’ll say his failed kamui used no chakra. However after that he uses raikiri on a kunai, meaning he has used 75% of his chakra so far meaning he should only be able to use 1 kamui. However he then goes on to use 5 kamui along with another raikiri and a doton wall.
You say he just got better with it? I just gave him a 3x boost in chakra and control in 1 year when in 3 he only increased his chakra by 50% over 3 years, WHILE having little to no training time between the Pain invasion and the war.
Kakashis chakra usage with Kamui depends on the size of the object. After getting his chakra restored Kakashi fell to ground right after transporting the Hachibi. So there is no way to tell how much chakra he actually uses, all your dumb math goes right out the window.
He received a shinra Tensei to the frikking face, the damage of that alone would affect his chakra, and he still used it twice before dying.
