Proof that Second Tsuchikage > Fourth Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

[New Era]

the only way the tsukage would win is if he went invisible and if he did that, minato would need to use a terrian or summoning which would be the chief frog.

the reason for the chief frog is for minato's summoning technique:food cart destroyer which his the area with a huge mass and destroys terrain releasing smoke and may actually catch muu or

minato can use the chief toad to do oil bullet which wold give muu identity away and minato can just use his space time and finish him or if minato has explosive tags he can use a powerful oil and flame tech with his summoning killing muu.



basically gambunta getting summoned in a food cart destroying technique and then using oil toad bullet would give muu identiy away and then minato can use his space time to finish muu so i see minato winning in this one.

 

[TrollingSage]

Can anyone counter the argument for Muu spliting after Minato thinking it's a final blow and won then match, when Muu can just invisible neck slash him from behind when he's not expecting?

Sure I can. Minato isnt just going to stand there when Muu goes invisible. He'll most likely use the barrier tech he used to keep Hiruzen and co out when he was sealing the kyubi.

Mu cannot be seen due to his invisibility technique mabbe someone with a byakugan sharingan or rinnegan can see him but inato does not have either of those kekkei genkai's so he would ot be able to attack him. All Mu would have to do is turn invisible and use Dust Release: Detachment of the Primitive World Technique
and he would send minato to another dimension wich makes Mu the winner this battle will mostly be about techniques NOT skill.....WINNER: Second Tsuchikage Mu

Wrong. Muu cant attack whilst invisible. He has to be visible to attack.

 

[Negative Knight]

Uh...You can't be a half sensor. Muu just didn't have the foresight for that. Minato was able to surprise Tobi despite how Tobi was fully aware of his abilities. As such, Minato can catch Muu by surprise even with his sensory abilities. Minato just thinks that fast.

We know Muu was in his prime because Tsuchikage would not have made it a point that EMS Madara was HOLDING BACK during that fight. If they didn't have Dust Release back then, Madara holding back would not matter. All my assumptions are based on the current information we got and not completely abstract reasoning like, "How do you know he didn't have Dust Release back then?" Kishimoto shows Madara's power by putting TWO Tsuchikages as fodder before him, and if they didn't have Dust Release it makes Kishimoto's point pointless. It's rudimentary my dear watson.

When you need to make special situations to have Muu win, it shows how out of his league he is. Face to face, Minato would trounce Muu.

Lol nice sherlock holmes reference

But besides the point of Madara turning Muu into fodder, Minato's only real way of having a chance is through FTG Kunai and Muu can use his Wind element techs to just deflect them rendering them useless.

 

[Uchiha Leader]

the only way the tsukage would win is if he went invisible and if he did that, minato would need to use a terrian or summoning which would be the chief frog.

the reason for the chief frog is for minato's summoning technique:food cart destroyer which his the area with a huge mass and destroys terrain releasing smoke and may actually catch muu or

minato can use the chief toad to do oil bullet which wold give muu identity away and minato can just use his space time and finish him or if minato has explosive tags he can use a powerful oil and flame tech with his summoning killing muu.



basically gambunta getting summoned in a food cart destroying technique and then using oil toad bullet would give muu identiy away and then minato can use his space time to finish muu so i see minato winning in this one.

give it up minato summoning the chief frog would make muu lose

 

[OnPoint]

One of the major difficulties of fighting Muu is that he relies on his invisibility to provide a clear opening for a Jinton technique. It works against most people, because they don't have enough time to physically avoid the blast: they may be able to react, but by then it's too late. So long as Minato catches a glimpse of an attack, he can dodge via FTG. It doesn't matter how much time Minato has to avoid, because he can do so instantaneously. The issue with him is reacting, and I think he can do that with

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. Once Muu's location is revealed, it'll be a downhill battle for him. Minato's the quicker and more skilled fighter, and without his invisibility protecting him, he won't last long.

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. With Minato's reflexes and FTG, I don't see him ever getting hit. Minato will be able to see where Muu is attacking from, that's when he can counter, because lets not forget, Muu must turn visible to attack. He can also use summons to aid him. Gamabunta using water pistol for example, as this is a good long range attack. If Muu wants to waste precious chakra using Jinton on a summon, then that's his problem. Once Minato has pinpointed his location, he could use V2 FTG on a moving kunai to land a Rasengan.

I mean, I have seen speed calculations that place Pain and Sage Mode Naruto at Mach 5+ speeds. They don't even compare to the Raikage, who inturn was bettered by Minato. And to put it simply, Muu has no speed feats.

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against Tobi and the Kyuubi actually suggested that he couldn't even be seen.

We know that Muu would be difficult to sense. But to be fair,

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to Tobi who can't be sensed either. He is also hides his physcal presence (touch), which is why I don't think Muu will hit him especially if he must turn visible to attack via taijutsu.

The only Jinton move which is unlikely to be redirected is the one which captures the target within it. Tobi was able to have time to go in and

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, so there's no chance of Minato dying by it with his S/T ninjutsu.

Even if the situation arises where Mianto runs out of kunai, he can always place seals in the environment, and do so subtely. We saw this when he tagged Killer B without being noticed by both the

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Alternatively, Minato could just Summon Ma & Pa and have them use frog song, as we know someone who has a contract with the chief toad is able to summon all other toads. Minato falls under this catergory.

All in all, i'd this one to Minato, mid - high difficulty.

This.

 

[realobito1]

Minato is awesome but muu is a powerhouse. I think muu has got this. Minato would be on the defensive the entire time. HOwever I cant say that minato winning would be immpossible considering the fact that minato is the fastest ninja ever. If minato marks him he wins. the real problem is that muu is a one shot type of ninja and minato lacks the powerful jutsu needed to stop dust release

 

[ThtOneGuy]

+rep you make the best threads but im going to have to disagree minato is to fast even for muu im not going to explain because ryuu already said all the good points anyway

 

[Jinton Spam]

Minato will ROFLStomp Muu
im not going to write 1000 words about how

 

[immortal sage]

its very plasuble but remember dust release wont be minatos biggest problom do to his s/t barrier but the ability to fly would work as a great disadvantege on minato but i think
minato has a 55% chance of winning do to intelegence

 

[LeEvilTongue]

Well i dont know if he is stronger, but he can definetely kill Minato anytime he wants (Nobody can guard an attack they dont know is coming).

 

[6pathofpain]

eh id say 50 50

 

[Narutopedia]

this may sound crazy, but minato can fly.

think about it, he throws a kunai, teleports to it and does it again. following this proces and he would hold himself in the air for a remarcable period of time.

also there is a small mistake about the total invisibillity jutsu.

minatos finger to the ground tech detects the users location if standing on the ground or anything onnected to the ground. the total invisibillity tech, he makes his body and chakra invissilble, but his weight is unaffected. this means that minato is able to sense him regardess of the invisibillity tech or not. (unless flying)

 

[Narutopedia]

Minato is awesome but muu is a powerhouse. I think muu has got this. Minato would be on the defensive the entire time. HOwever I cant say that minato winning would be immpossible considering the fact that minato is the fastest ninja ever. If minato marks him he wins. the real problem is that muu is a one shot type of ninja and minato lacks the powerful jutsu needed to stop dust release

he doesn't need to stop the jinton tech, just avoid it. he can also teleport the tech away out of danger. (read the whole thing)

 

[Kakashi Hatakeo]

If you are putting Minato's jutsu arsenal against Mu, then Minato would lose to an average chunin....
Actually, Minato isn't type of guy who loses to power and stregnth...
IF one can outsmart and outrun Minato, he can win....otherwise NOT with few exceptions...

This is sort of true, we havent seen minatos arsenal to be able to fully compare them but from what we have seen id still say minato though the threadmaker makes some good points invisiblity would be tricky.

 

[Noddy B]

I think, although the argument is a very difficult senario, Minato will win this fight. I resepect the abilities of the Second Tsuchikage. However he has to deal with the speed and space time abilities that come with the 4th hokage. And i agree with a couple post i have seen here about the 4th's ability to summon to aid him as he did against the nine tails. But do to the difficulty level of both opponents i want to say they both would lose thier lives in this fight. I would like to see it end personally with the death-reaper seal.

 

[slickkizzi]

Well if the second tsuchikage is able to land one of his dust element jutsu succesfully,which I doubt,cos minato wud use his shushuin jutsu to teleport.I wud say it wud be a tough battle cos they are both strong.then again muu sama has more advantage,so I guess its safe to say that muu wud win.but namikaze wud give him a run for his money.

 

[Arcaneos510X]

im sorry again my friend but IMHO Minato > 2nd Tsu

i just think minato is the kind of genius that could beat him if it was muu the no chance but the 2nd beat with high diff.

 

[cmilius]

If a ninja like tobi who no one can touch couldn't hit minato once in a fight, i'm pretty sure no one exactly could since speed is his own thing and he was able to flash naruto out of tobi hands without the use of ftg and it says meaning in the manga they said that tobi is really fast, and he can teleport all ninjutsu with the s/t barrier. Sensory out of the roof, reflexes the best, speed the best, defense the best because he can transport every attack, chakra huge enough to fight tobi who basically coud have beaten muu in second cause danzo second guard was one and look at what happened to him by tobi, and the nine tails beast and we all know the nine tails is most likely infinite. teleportation out of the roof because he can teleport in the air shown against tobi. Strength equal to tobi or higher back then abd inteligence i can say without a doubt the smartest and later itachi. The only muu can win is to outsmart minato which can't do.

 

[Honoured path of six]

In minato's favour: The space time barrier Is basically a defence tech. But it could be used for offensive purposes by way of a counter... Lemmie xplain. It could be used to deflect, redirect or transport massive blasts... Perhaps minato could jus simply redirect all mu's blasts back @ him... He could jump the blasts tru space and time so the blasts come @ mu 4rm point blank, giving mu no time to evade... Even if mu decided to use the dust release, minato could transport the jinkton and aim it back @ mu... Opinion pls

 

[teetooktier]

Where do people keep getting that Muu has to be visible to attack? Are you simply saying that the targeted dust tech area can be seen? The only reason he was visible at all was due to Gaara's sensor sand. Is there a manga page I'm missing?

To the OP, great post, you've opened my eyes as to just how powerful Mu is. I'd make the odds 70:30 in Mu's favor. Frankly, Minato's one of the only people who can stand before this guy at all, because most die to a stealthed dust tech.

I notice that nobody has come up with any counter arguments for wind techs blowing away kunai, so I'll give it a shot.

1. Secretly tag Gamabunta or his katana, have him jump and attack, then appear clsoe to Mu.

2. Tag rocks and other things from off the floor, and throw those at Muu to avoid wasting Kunai.

3. Teleport to his kunai immediately after throwing them, catch them and throw them again to move them out of the way of the wind blasts and to gain altitude.

4. Jump through a space time barrier, appearing right next to Mu.

However, the invisibility problem has to be solved first, or none of this matters.

Anyways, +rep