Konoha can beat Pain w/o Naruto

[ElectricClover]

Are you saying SM Naruto>Kakashi, Guy, Lee, Neji, Shikamaru, Hiashi, Choji, Chouza, Tenten? If you are then you're high as the sky my friend. Plus only Deva Path purposes a threat. As soon as the black orb for CT is thrown, Kakashi can just Kamui it or Chouza and Choji can just go Giant and punch the lights out of it. Sorry but I don't want to explain why an expected ST will be irrelevant again. Kakashi almost killed Deva Path with just the help of Choji and Chouza. Plus Choji's dumba** got Kakashi killed anyway. Now with the help of all the others, especially brains like Neji and Shikamaru and strength like Choji, Chouza, Lee and Guy, it would be easy.

No... just saying SM Naruto lost even when he got to fight the Pains one at a time (though plot susano'o Naruto is > than all of them). So even if the others are better they still have little chance.

You're still acting like all of these people are going to team up on Deva Path or something. Kakashi is not going to be kamuing CT while there's an unstoppable multiplying dog he needs to kamui first. Oh wait, he needs to kamui preta path because its absorbing all jutsu while the others protect him. Oh wait, Deva Path is flying above the village about to do a bigass ST, Kakashi needs to kamui him! Bro I don't really want to argue with you if you say Kakashi kamuis all six pains and every technique they use without being challenged.

The Akimichis are useless here. They get trashed. One ST like the one that sent the toads flying miles takes care of the two lardos. Everyone else has been beaten by single paths with only one ability... Gai is only a small boost to the Konoha team-- I say he has to waste himself getting rid of CT with afternoon tiger or he creates a million dogs by hitting it with asakujaku for Kakashi to try kamui. Gai is not worth a second Konoha, but maybe you think that...

 

[ElectricClover]

Every path has a weakness. They are powerful when they are together. That is why I formed those teams to separate them and to exploit their weaknesses. You severly underestimate the power of teamwork and are caught up by how powerful their abilities are.

Huge shinra tensei weakness:
-uses lots of chakra
-severs connection with the other bodies to perform it leaving them vulnerable
-can't use shinra tensei for a long time leaving deva vulnerable.

If anyone survives after that blast, which is very likely, all of the pains would be destroyed anyways.

Its not just guy and hiashi, its lee, neji, and tenten as well. They would ALL come together to fight as one, not just by themselves and then paired with the smartest shinobi in the narutoverse, Shikmaru and Kakashi.

It would be an epic battle. One that konoha could win.

Each path has a weakness, yes, but together they have little openings. You say I underestimate teamwork, but the six paths of Pain are a team too. It is their teamwork which makes them so formidable.

btw if Deva path uses a ST on the village there's no need for him to recover. It's done. Katsuyu was the only reason the village survived the first time. With no warning everyone is flattened...

 

[fastrthnwind]

No... just saying SM Naruto lost even when he got to fight the Pains one at a time (though plot susano'o Naruto is > than all of them). So even if the others are better they still have little chance.

You're still acting like all of these people are going to team up on Deva Path or something. Kakashi is not going to be kamuing CT while there's an unstoppable multiplying dog he needs to kamui first. Oh wait, he needs to kamui preta path because its absorbing all jutsu while the others protect him. Oh wait, Deva Path is flying above the village about to do a bigass ST, Kakashi needs to kamui him! Bro I don't really want to argue with you if you say Kakashi kamuis all six pains and every technique they use without being challenged.

The Akimichis are useless here. They get trashed. One ST like the one that sent the toads flying miles takes care of the two lardos. Everyone else has been beaten by single paths with only one ability... Gai is only a small boost to the Konoha team-- I say he has to waste himself getting rid of CT with afternoon tiger or he creates a million dogs by hitting it with asakujaku for Kakashi to try kamui. Gai is not worth a second Konoha, but maybe you think that...

Everyone would be covering for each other. It won't be everyone ganging up on one person.

That one shinra tensei was used when all other paths were taken care of so they weren't vulnerable. He actually had to wait a considerable amount of time before using that jutsu again since it was so large and powerful. Also the downside would be that he would hits the other paths plus summons if he just suddenly used shinra tensei out of nowhere.

Each path has a weakness, yes, but together they have little openings. You say I underestimate teamwork, but the six paths of Pain are a team too. It is their teamwork which makes them so formidable.

btw if Deva path uses a ST on the village there's no need for him to recover. It's done. Katsuyu was the only reason the village survived the first time. With no warning everyone is flattened...

If he uses ST on the village, he has to prepare himelf, giving the others time to get away from the scene. People who could outrun it: Guy/Lee in gates while carrying people. People who can survive it: Neji/Hiashi if they use rotation to minimize damage.

 

[ElectricClover]

Everyone would be covering for each other. It won't be everyone ganging up on one person.

Goes for the paths too, that's what I'm trying to say.

That one shinra tensei was used when all other paths were taken care of so they weren't vulnerable. He actually had to wait a considerable amount of time before using that jutsu again since it was so large and powerful. Also the downside would be that he would hits the other paths plus summons if he just suddenly used shinra tensei out of nowhere.

The other paths can be summoned outside the battlefield or flown on a bird summon... or Konan can ferry them since she should be allowed, seeing as how she was there the first time.

But it wouldn't matter the negative effects on Pain, the ST. It would just kill everyone. imo for the battle to be more fair the element of surprise should be taken away from Pain or he wins easily.

Ed: Don't think people can outrun it. With surprise it's too fast. If Hiashi or Neji survive-- good point btw-- Konan or the other paths can finish them if the pains and her survive, which is likely.

 

[Guardian of the Rain]

Each path has a weakness, yes, but together they have little openings. You say I underestimate teamwork, but the six paths of Pain are a team too. It is their teamwork which makes them so formidable.

btw if Deva path uses a ST on the village there's no need for him to recover. It's done. Katsuyu was the only reason the village survived the first time. With no warning everyone is flattened...

OMG I don't know what you're not getting about how 2 A-rank geniuses(Kakashi and Hiashi), 2 B-rank geniuses(Neji and Shikamaru) can easily put their minds together to beat Pain. Also, amazing taijutsu users, 7th Gate Guy, 5th Gate Lee, Giant Akimichis, a long range support ninja, Tenten and Sai. And oh yeah A-rank tactician Yamato, smh I forgot him. All those A-rank and B-rank ninja can take down 1 S-rank ninja(deva path) and 5-B-rank ninjas(5 other paths). The Akimichis will handle the animal summonings. And the whole point of this thread was if they were ABLE to fight, so them getting injured by a surprised ST is out of the question. Also since Sai and Yamato are added, Konoha easily wins and I win this argument

 

[Gingka Uzumaki]

.....
He could've just used Gedo then.

 

[fastrthnwind]

Goes for the paths too, that's what I'm trying to say.



The other paths can be summoned outside the battlefield or flown on a bird summon... or Konan can ferry them since she should be allowed, seeing as how she was there the first time.

But it wouldn't matter the negative effects on Pain, the ST. It would just kill everyone. imo for the battle to be more fair the element of surprise should be taken away from Pain or he wins easily.

The other paths are summoned by the animal summon. If he's in combat, how would they get out? The bird summon is a more likely idea since they would be protected from other attacks. Though like i said earlier, if he does it, he has to prepare, meaning that everyone has a chance to escape it.

Konan isn't allowed in this fight. She was actually protecting Nagato just in case he was found out.

Don't think people can outrun it. With surprise it's too fast

It can't really be surprise so much unless he he wants it to be a weak push. A powerful one requires preparation.

 

[ElectricClover]

OMG I don't know what you're not getting about how 2 A-rank geniuses(Kakashi and Hiashi), 2 B-rank geniuses(Neji and Shikamaru) can easily put their minds together to beat Pain. Also, amazing taijutsu users, 7th Gate Guy, 5th Gate Lee, Giant Akimichis, a long range support ninja, Tenten and Sai. And oh yeah A-rank tactician Yamato, smh I forgot him. All those A-rank and B-rank ninja can take down 1 S-rank ninja(deva path) and 5-B-rank ninjas(5 other paths). The Akimichis will handle the animal summonings. And the whole point of this thread was if they were ABLE to fight, so them getting injured by a surprised ST is out of the question. Also since Sai and Yamato are added, Konoha easily wins and I win this argument

What is the point of listing all those people's resumes? Sure it lends credibility, but not much to the argument. The Akimichis cannot beat the invisible chameleon, the agile flying bird, especially not the multiplying dog, or the underground centipede. Are you taking away big ST or surprise? Because that would make more sense if you say Konoha would win. Stop saying you win, there's no point.

Is Konan allowed?

Thanks Gingka Uzumaki, forgot about gedo mazo... I think that seals the deal...

@fast... didn't seem to take him long to do a strong one...

 

[fastrthnwind]

OMG I don't know what you're not getting about how 2 A-rank geniuses(Kakashi and Hiashi), 2 B-rank geniuses(Neji and Shikamaru) can easily put their minds together to beat Pain. Also, amazing taijutsu users, 7th Gate Guy, 5th Gate Lee, Giant Akimichis, a long range support ninja, Tenten and Sai. And oh yeah A-rank tactician Yamato, smh I forgot him. All those A-rank and B-rank ninja can take down 1 S-rank ninja(deva path) and 5-B-rank ninjas(5 other paths). The Akimichis will handle the animal summonings. And the whole point of this thread was if they were ABLE to fight, so them getting injured by a surprised ST is out of the question. Also since Sai and Yamato are added, Konoha easily wins and I win this argument

I know your getting upset, but calm dowm buddy. Lets try to make this debate reasonable.

This has gotta be one of my best debates yet

Thanks Gingka Uzumaki, forgot about gedo mazo... I think that seals the deal...

@fast... didn't seem to take him long to do a strong one...

I'm pretty sure that Gedo is summoned before hand before the assault on the jinchurriki actually begins. We can't be sure since we have never seen the deva path summon it before.

Remember, he had all of his other pains take on naruto before he came into the picture and took out the frogs. I'm pretty sure he was charging up his power then to use it.

 

[Guardian of the Rain]

What is the point of listing all those people's resumes? Sure it lends credibility, but not much to the argument. The Akimichis cannot beat the invisible chameleon, the agile flying bird, especially not the multiplying dog, or the underground centipede. Are you taking away big ST or surprise? Because that would make more sense if you say Konoha would win. Stop saying you win, there's no point.

Is Konan allowed?

Thanks Gingka Uzumaki, forgot about gedo mazo... I think that seals the deal...

@fast... didn't seem to take him long to do a strong one...

You're not understanding how good these Konoha ninja will be together, that's why I'm showing you their resumes. They are an unbeatable team if you would take your time to think about it, you'll se that. Why do you think I didn't mention Kiba's mom, Kiba, Shino's dad and Shino? Because they're fighting Konan. And big ST is allowed but no surprise. And Gedo Mazo is allowed if Deva Path can summon him, that's never be shown though. The original Pain(Tobi and Nagato) has been shown summoning Gedo Mazo but idk about Deva Path:shrug: Sai and Tenten can handle the bird and the Akimichis can handle the rest with the help of Guy imo. Lee will take Deva Path is the 5 second interval using his gates.

 

[Guardian of the Rain]

I know your getting upset, but calm dowm buddy. Lets try to make this debate reasonable.

This has gotta be one of my best debates yet

haha i am calm, ElectricClover is the unreasonable one. I think he likes to argue for fun or something:shrug: lol. And I'm glad to give you a good thread to debate aboutxd

 

[ElectricClover]

You're not understanding how good these Konoha ninja will be together, that's why I'm showing you their resumes. They are an unbeatable team if you would take your time to think about it, you'll se that. Why do you think I didn't mention Kiba's mom, Kiba, Shino's dad and Shino? Because they're fighting Konan. And big ST is allowed but no surprise. And Gedo Mazo is allowed if Deva Path can summon him, that's never be shown though. The original Pain(Tobi and Nagato) has been shown summoning Gedo Mazo but idk about Deva Path:shrug: Sai and Tenten can handle the bird and the Akimichis can handle the rest with the help of Guy imo. Lee will take Deva Path is the 5 second interval using his gates.

Deva Path summoned gedo mazo during the Akatsuki meetings, right? So he can summon it here. I think the Konoha team is boss but not unbeatable... I just think the Pain team is better. Konan is allowed, okay then. Can you specify about ST but no surprise? Does that mean everyone knows where Deva Path is all the time? Okay about the bird... but the Akimichis and Gai cannot beat the dog. Physical attacks do not work on it. If Deva path>Kakashi, Deva path>Lee come on.

I do like to argue...

 

[fastrthnwind]

haha i am calm, ElectricClover is the unreasonable one. I think he likes to argue for fun or something lol. And I'm glad to give you a good thread to debate about

Come on give him some cred. He has many good arguements and points that he has explained.

 

[Wolfang714]

It depends which path Guy, Shikamaru and Hiashi would be fighting. Guy is the Preta Path's weakness, since he's a taijutsu master, Asakujaku could not be absorbed. Same with Hiashi. I'm not sure about Shikamaru.

 

[arv993]

.....
He could've just used Gedo then.

no gedo is dangerous for him to use, he is in the state he is due to using gedo and the soul dragon tech. deva summoned it for sealing not for combat, we have seen how much it affects nagato and if he has to use it extensively then its pretty damaging

 

[fastrthnwind]

It depends which path Guy, Shikamaru and Hiashi would be fighting. Guy is the Preta Path's weakness, since he's a taijutsu master, Asakujaku could not be absorbed. Same with Hiashi. I'm not sure about Shikamaru.

This is how I set it up:

Spoiler

You have the Brains: Kakashi/shikamaru, the Muscle: Guy/Lee/Chouji/Chouza, and the Multipurpose team(long and close range combat/brains): Neji/Hiashi/Tenten. Shikamaru and kakashi could hang back to figure out the enemies abilities and come up with a plan to defeat them, while everyone else engages the enemy but also conserve energy for a final attack. Once they do, they would go on the offense and have the entire group WTFblitz the bodies separately.

Deva-Kakashi(Shikamaru): has already demonstrated the ability to engage this path for some time. Could have shikamaru for backup if needed.

Animal-Chouji/Chouza: Their large forms and strength could take on any summon

Human-Hiashi/(Neji): The gentle fist/byakugan would allow the team to get close and take out this path without having their soul sucked out

Preta-Guy/Lee: this group hardly uses chakra and could use their gates to out-maneuvre this path

Asura-Tenten/(Neji) weapons vs weapons in this battle. Pretty even, though having neji on this team will help give her an advantage

Naraka-Shikamaru: shikamaru could temporarily hold back the naraka path so that he can't heal any of the other members
*Neji could be on either team
**Shikamaru could be possible back-up

With this set-up, they could take on the 6 paths and potentially defeat them.

Also, if they ever needed to run from the large shinra tensei, Guy and Lee in gates could transport several people while Hiashi and Neji could rotate to protect themselves temporarily from any major damage.

 

[ElectricClover]

^But that's assuming the paths are split up and Konoha matches up with them in the best possible matches... there's no way that would happen. Teamwork for both sides and I think Pain's is stronger.

 

[arv993]

^But that's assuming the paths are split up and Konoha matches up with them in the best possible matches... there's no way that would happen. Teamwork for both sides and I think Pain's is stronger.

deva is the main problem and if kakashi had guy instead of choza he would have stopped him right there. Others have to hold ppl like preta +asura and animal path back. You do know that there are more ninjas in the leaf than he mentioned. shikamaru is also very good at stopping and buying time.

There was a reason some good members left out of konoha during the invasion

 

[fastrthnwind]

^But that's assuming the paths are split up and Konoha matches up with them in the best possible matches... there's no way that would happen. Teamwork for both sides and I think Pain's is stronger.

I'm pretty sure Shikamaru would start it off by trying to separate them with shadow bind. When the 6 pains scatter is when they go and match up with them.

With the brains of shikamaru and kakashi combined, they can stay one step ahead of the paths.

 

[Guardian of the Rain]

I'm pretty sure Shikamaru would start it off by trying to separate them with shadow bind. When the 6 pains scatter is when they go and match up with them.

With the brains of shikamaru and kakashi combined, they can stay one step ahead of the paths.

Seriously, that's what I'm trying to tell him. Brains>brute, these are ninjas and techniques we're talking about. This isn't DBZ where just strength is everything