[Theory] Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madara

[PositiveEmotions]

You(lol jk) and NvsG its been a long time and it looks like i and i think positiveemo were right....and NvsG was WRONG.....lol just wanted to brag

wow lol

 

[MinatoIsBestHokage]

PositiveEmotions is that you in your picture or were you driving real life Sasuke somewhere?

Also I posted something and it was completely overlooked pshhh,

Hey NarutovsGoku, I always like your replies to posts, you make me laugh honestly (I don't mean laugh in a stupid way I mean laugh because your among one of the only intelligent posters on this board)

Eternal, you know I side with you and I too think it is the Elder Brother and I am going to use something that you corrected me on and I am going to ask NarutovsGoku it. NvG you might have said this somewhere down the line but to be honest I am on a couple of happy pills and I read a lot of this thread but skimmed through some stuff. Anyway here is the question.

I too once believed that Kisame and Itachi had saw Tobi's face and recognized him as Madara, BUT as Eternal pointed out to me once, and this goes ESPECIALLY for Kisame, Kisame could have seen Tobi when he was the Mizukage who claimed he was Madara and than saw him later and recognized the same face and was like oh okay it is Madara again. (If I didn't explain this well enough, I am sorry like I said I took a couple of happy pills ;p)

Itachi could have done the same thing but I don't remember anywhere it showing and/or saying that Itachi saw Tobi's face. If you could show me proof I will gladly recount this statement.

Also, I think it is pretty obvious that Edo Madara and Kabuto and whoever else has different plans from the "Fake Madara" AKA Tobi. Leading to why I think it is the Elder Brother. I mean think about how complex the Moon's Eye plan is to begin with. Everyone in the Narutoverse (at least I am 99% sure) thought that the So6P was a myth as Kakashi says. Obviously some people know different like Kabuto, Orochimaru, Madara, Tobi, etc...I mean just think about the Moon's Eye plan for a second. This plan would control the entire NARUTOVERSE. Madara from what we know only wanted revenge on Konoha, Tobi seems to want to control everything through STRENGTH and FORCE (NOTE: What the Elder Son believed were the keys to peace)

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"It's both for War...and Peace..."

Elder son wanted Peace through HIS WAY (see above), I don't think Madara wants anything close to peace.

You do convey a very good point that I hadn't realized, Minato does in a way admit that Madara had S/T Ninjutsu as shown on:

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But I think it is important to break down what Minato ACTUALLY says. "Can he use Space-Time Ninjutsu Too!?" Like every intelligent theory maker on this board, we all use words and sentences in the Manga and/or Episodes to portray these words and sentences in the best light that helps us with our theory. (If anyone needs that sentence explained to them, you suck and should not post on this board again ;p) But anyway I use and/or understand the aforementioned Minato quote as him not admitting that Madara can use S/T Ninjutsu, rather not knowing what that Jutsu was that he was almost sucked into and questioning if it was a S/T Ninjutsu because he isn't sure.

Overall though great post man, I definitely think it was well thought out and presented very well which is rare on this board seeing as how every "Tobi Is.." post goes something like this:

Me tink Tobi is Obito b/c u can't spell Obito without Tobi, just like der is no I in team, watz do u guyz tink? derrrrrpppppppp ehhh durrrrrrr.

 

[PositiveEmotions]

PositiveEmotions is that you in your picture or were you driving real life Sasuke somewhere?

Also I posted something and it was completely overlooked pshhh,

lol no i was not driving but i know how to drive and i do not have my license yet ;( and yea thats really me in that pic

 

[MinatoIsBestHokage]

lol no i was not driving but i know how to drive and i do not have my license yet ;( and yea thats really me in that pic

Hahaha yeah I was just kidding and your awesome for not taking any offense to that comment, but I think you could pull a real life Sasuke off if you put your hair back, kill your brother, find an albino snake charmer to give you power, and take on Earth's version of the 5 Kage, maybe NATO? Or the 5 strongest countries in the world's leader's. Shit I shouldn't even be writing that I bet the CIA or FBI are gonna barge into my house right after I hit Submit Reply

 

[PositiveEmotions]

Hahaha yeah I was just kidding and your awesome for not taking any offense to that comment, but I think you could pull a real life Sasuke off if you put your hair back, kill your brother, find an albino snake charmer to give you power, and take on Earth's version of the 5 Kage, maybe NATO? Or the 5 strongest countries in the world's leader's. Shit I shouldn't even be writing that I bet the CIA or FBI are gonna barge into my house right after I hit Submit Reply

hahahahha if i had sasuke's abilities i would burn anyone who makes fun of me with lightning lol and i did not know that comment u made was offensive lol i didn't even take it like that lol

 

[Hawker]

hahahahha if i had sasuke's abilities i would burn anyone who makes fun of me with lightning lol and i did not know that comment u made was offensive lol i didn't even take it like that lol

three lol's in one sentence wow

 

[PositiveEmotions]

three lol's in one sentence wow

wut u mean?

 

[MinatoIsBestHokage]

hahahahha if i had sasuke's abilities i would burn anyone who makes fun of me with lightning lol and i did not know that comment u made was offensive lol i didn't even take it like that lol

Nono it wasn't meant to be offensive, I wrote most people would take it to be offensive but it was cool that you didn't.

NvG, I posted my thread twice, and I am not arguing with anyone, I like all the intelligent theories out there, even if there is no OVERWHELMING proof, speculation is a very powerful tool and if used right like you have, people start thinking twice and thinking differently about everything which is what all intelligent members on this board should be doing. So, could you please just answer my post before your done

 

[dings15]

if he's a clone...then the real madara is really dead...is that it?

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

bleh...

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

This is your reply? I am an alt to ITN ? lol well how can I prove you wrong on that. You can think whatever you want.
What a retard lmao.




Yeah he said that after seeing earlier Madara's face so the same thing. So okay I remembered wrong the instant reaction thing. But he said "you!" the instand and later called him Madara. So there's the connection. You are again grabbing onto things and making them look bigger than they are thus putting it out of context and using it as flaming/trolling.

I'm not picking sides or anything. Just gonna add my two cents.

Kisame only recognized Tobi as Madara because of the fact that Tobi introduced himself to Kisame as Uchiha Madara to begin with.

Spoiler

Here's two of the occasions the "Masked man" took off his mask and revealed it to the same person. Hoshigaki Kisame.

Over here "Long-haired" Tobi/"Mizukage" introduces himself as Uchiha Madara to Kisame

Spoiler

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You must be registered for see images

Over here "short-haired" Tobi is identified as Madara/Mizukage by Kisame

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

This proves with out a doubt that both the long haired and short haired "Masked Men" both have the same face. So, its safe to say that both are still the same person, also known as Tobi. Which means that the long haired masked man is not the real Uchiha Madara.

 

[redzoro]

i think Tobi is a student of madara...

 

[Hawker]

I'm not picking sides or anything. Just gonna add my two cents.

Kisame only recognized Tobi as Madara because of the fact that Tobi introduced himself to Kisame as Uchiha Madara.

Spoiler

Here's two of the occasions the "Masked man" took off his mask and revealed it to the same person. Hoshigaki Kisame.

Over here "Long-haired" Tobi/"Mizukage" introduces himself as Uchiha Madara to Kisame

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Over here "short-haired" Tobi is identified as Madara/Mizukage by Kisame

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

This proves with out a doubt that both the long haired and short haired "Masked Men" both have the same face. So, its safe to say that both are still the same person, also known as Tobi. Which means that the long haired masked man is not the real Uchiha Madara.

Still Kisame knows from statues etc what Madara looks like so I guess he would've stop calling him Madara if he wasn't.

Also it doesn't prove that Tobi wouldn't a part of Madara as in somekind of freaky clone etc that we do not know about. But yes edo Madara is real Madara and Tobi is kinda a fake one as Kabuto said, but still I think he's Madara in some way. There's sometrhing fishy there. That's just my opinion.

You made good points though, far better than EMR.

 

[redzoro]

I think Tobi is a student of Madara!

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

I think Tobi is a student of Madara!

Why?

Still Kisame knows from statues etc what Madara looks like so I guess he would've stop calling him Madara if he wasn't.

Also it doesn't prove that Tobi wouldn't a part of Madara as in somekind of freaky clone etc that we do not know about. But yes edo Madara is real Madara and Tobi is kinda a fake one as Kabuto said, but still I think he's Madara in some way. There's sometrhing fishy there. That's just my opinion.

You made good points though, far better than EMR.

You've got a great point regarding the statue at the Valley of the End. I wonder if Tobi's face really looks like that statue's face?

Damn you Kishi!!! It would have been interesting if Kisame were still alive and managed a comment on Madara's ID.

 

[pilyop]

It seems that cooler heads prevailed.

Took me quite some time to read the the entire thread and I was about to tell everyone to stop over-analyzing things and just make a bet on who Tobi is. I was about to make a poll thread but searching revealed more than 20 polls about Tobi's true identity. Well, that sucks.

So NvG and Hawker thinks that Tobi is Madara, while EMS and Cyborg thinks otherwise and so are the other members/senior members.

I also think that Tobi is not Madara, that he is just another Uchiha, but now I see a flaw in this. A poster in this thread made a great point about character development in Manga. Tobi being a student of Madara seems too boring.

Still, what really bothers me is how the heck did Edo Madara knew Nagato? Why is he calling Nagato a brat?! Oh well :shrug:

 

[MinatoIsBestHokage]

I'm not picking sides or anything. Just gonna add my two cents.

Kisame only recognized Tobi as Madara because of the fact that Tobi introduced himself to Kisame as Uchiha Madara to begin with.

Spoiler

Here's two of the occasions the "Masked man" took off his mask and revealed it to the same person. Hoshigaki Kisame.

Over here "Long-haired" Tobi/"Mizukage" introduces himself as Uchiha Madara to Kisame

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Over here "short-haired" Tobi is identified as Madara/Mizukage by Kisame

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

This proves with out a doubt that both the long haired and short haired "Masked Men" both have the same face. So, its safe to say that both are still the same person, also known as Tobi. Which means that the long haired masked man is not the real Uchiha Madara.

This was EXACTLY MY POST. THANK YOU. (Honestly, no sarcasm I am just happy someone finally answered it, even if it wasn't my own).

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

It seems that cooler heads prevailed.

Took me quite some time to read the the entire thread and I was about to tell everyone to stop over-analyzing things and just make a bet on who Tobi is. I was about to make a poll thread but searching revealed more than 20 polls about Tobi's true identity. Well, that sucks.

So NvG and Hawker thinks that Tobi is Madara, while EMS and Cyborg thinks otherwise and so are the other members/senior members.

I also think that Tobi is not Madara, that he is just another Uchiha, but now I see a flaw in this. A poster in this thread made a great point about character development in Manga. Tobi being a student of Madara seems too boring.

Still, what really bothers me is how the heck did Edo Madara knew Nagato? Why is he calling Nagato a brat?! Oh well :shrug:

When the Edo-Kages were first shown, they all gave the impression that they were unaware of the amount of time that has passed from the moment they died until the moment they were summoned. I think Madara too still had to figure out how much time had passed.

So it's obvious that Madara's last memory of Nagato is that of a child(brat). And that can only be explained by assuming that Madara lived long enough to have at least known about Nagato and the fact that Nagato was a child.

The questions that remain:

• How did Madara manage to live until Nagato came into existence?
• Why does Madara have such a youthful appearance?
• How in the hell did the monstrously powerful Uchiha Madara really die?
• Where is Madara's real body?
• Into what body did Madara expect Nagato to revive his soul anyway?

Well...Tsunade, the greatest medical personality in the narutoverse, seemed quite confident that Madara + Hashirama DNA = Immortality as seen

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and

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It has pretty much been established that Madara did in fact somehow incorporate Hashirama's DNA into himself. Which, according to Tsunade's conclusion, makes Madara immortal. In fact, Tsunade said that, that makes someone immortal in the actual meaning of the word. Hell, even Itachi called Madara an "

You must be registered for see links

".

So, that explains how Madara was able to live until Nagato was born and still retain his youthful appearance up until his death

 

[Avani]

When the Edo-Kages were first shown, they all gave the impression that they were unaware of the amount of time that has passed from the moment they died until the moment they were summoned. I think Madara too still had to figure out how much time had passed.

So it's obvious that Madara's last memory of Nagato is that of a child(brat). And that can only be explained by assuming that Madara lived long enough to have at least known about Nagato and the fact that Nagato was a child.

Agreed.

The questions that remain:

• How did Madara manage to live until Nagato came into existence?
• Why does Madara have such a youthful appearance?
• How in the hell did the monstrously powerful Uchiha Madara really die?
• Where is Madara's real body?
• Into what body did Madara expect Nagato to revive his soul anyway?

Madara living till nagato came into existance is nt a big deal. Sarutobi Hiruzen was a student of tobirama and also knew Hashirama as a kid and yet even saw Naruto's genration. His edo being youthful is more interesting.

Kishi likes to draw handsome Uchihas only- probably. xd The edo's are brought back as they were at their prime. Maybe Madara was handsome enough when he died- His face has some cracks though. Nagato and Itachi once restored didn't have it.

Madara was not this powerful when he died. He didn't have rinngan till he was almost dead already- he said that himself that he awakkened it just before dying. And he certainly didn't have enhancements made by Kabuto he was checking under his shirt ( no silicon implant I hope) so he is more powerful at present than ever. He also used his last attack in chapter 561 only because he himself was an Edo and knew he would be resurrected. a live Madara wouldn't do it that easily as it would be suicidal.

Madara's real body? Beats me. Maybe Tobi is using it, maybe in one of the oro's layer.

I hope Madara would want his original body to be revived since first thing he thought when brought back was that he was revived by Nagato.:shrug:

Stealing Hashirama's cells would make him immortal then he wouldn't have died at all but wouldn't have remained youthful- unless immortal in Jpanese stands for youthful appearanc. >.>

 

[NarutoVsGoku]

It seems that cooler heads prevailed.

Took me quite some time to read the the entire thread and I was about to tell everyone to stop over-analyzing things and just make a bet on who Tobi is. I was about to make a poll thread but searching revealed more than 20 polls about Tobi's true identity. Well, that sucks.

So NvG and Hawker thinks that Tobi is Madara, while EMS and Cyborg thinks otherwise and so are the other members/senior members.

I also think that Tobi is not Madara, that he is just another Uchiha, but now I see a flaw in this. A poster in this thread made a great point about character development in Manga. Tobi being a student of Madara seems too boring.

Still, what really bothers me is how the heck did Edo Madara knew Nagato? Why is he calling Nagato a brat?! Oh well :shrug:

+reps to u for reading this whole thing man.

Did you honestly tho read the wall of comments in here?! Cuz to be honest i didnt even do that. I skimmed some. Especially those by emr.

When the Edo-Kages were first shown, they all gave the impression that they were unaware of the amount of time that has passed from the moment they died until the moment they were summoned. I think Madara too still had to figure out how much time had passed.

So it's obvious that Madara's last memory of Nagato is that of a child(brat). And that can only be explained by assuming that Madara lived long enough to have at least known about Nagato and the fact that Nagato was a child.

The questions that remain:

• How did Madara manage to live until Nagato came into existence?
• Why does Madara have such a youthful appearance?
• How in the hell did the monstrously powerful Uchiha Madara really die?
• Where is Madara's real body?
• Into what body did Madara expect Nagato to revive his soul anyway?

Well...Tsunade, the greatest medical personality in the narutoverse, seemed quite confident that Madara + Hashirama DNA = Immortality as seen

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

It has pretty much been established that Madara did in fact somehow incorporate Hashirama's DNA into himself. Which, according to Tsunade's conclusion, makes Madara immortal. In fact, Tsunade said that, that makes someone immortal in the actual meaning of the word. Hell, even Itachi called Madara an "

You must be registered for see links

".

So, that explains how Madara was able to live until Nagato was born and still retain his youthful appearance up until his death

Thank you .

You brought in more insight that makes me even more convinced that madara and tobi are very much connected. And i never till now took intO consideration on the fact madara was revived looking fairly young but still survived long enough to know nagato

But perhaps madaras aging slowed down alot due to gaining hashirama cells..

Also anybody noticed him looking in his shirt when kabuto mentioned that he got the 1sts power? I have suspect a hashirama face on his chest like how danzo had it on his shoulder