[Theory] Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madara

[Cyborg]

Shiiiet, you're on a roll now huh... xd some heavy homo insults damn ;D

but as long as you accept your loss it's ok for you to be like that man, it's okay


nah man, it's called a boner and every heterosexual experiences it. Maybe you can learn some more about it in biology class.

lmao this debate clearly was too much for you

See the edits, fool.

And again you just keep playing the 'haha i pwned you' statement with no basis for that claim. I bet you love self pity, you sorry lil ****.

And i'm a much better debater than you as i make solid points that are acknowledged by a majority of the members here. Just look at my rep, and now see your own. It proves since neither of us does gfx or other shit, that most of what you say is just fanboyism and stereotypical bullcrap that nobody appreciates. So don't come crying to me about your rep. Instead, stop acting like a tool and a douche and make factual points to earn the respect and rep of others.

 

[Cyborg]

to long to read and i already know tobi is not madara its been stated already

Yeah everyone with half a brain knows that, but some fangurls like Hawker refuse to acknowledge this simple fact. They ignore all the evidence and keep sticking to their own reatrded bullshit that keeps contradicting itself.

 

[PositiveEmotions]

Yeah everyone with half a brain knows that, but some fangurls like Hawker refuse to acknowledge this simple fact. They ignore all the evidence and keep sticking to their own reatrded bullshit that keeps contradicting itself.

wut does hawker said? but that msg i said was for narutovsgoku dude its obvious tobi is not madara lol allot of us nb users already known this since waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back lol

 

[Hawker]

See the edits, fool.

And again you just keep playing the 'haha i pwned you' statement with no basis for that claim. I bet you love self pity, you sorry lil ****.

And i'm a much better debater than you as i make solid points that are acknowledged by a majority of the members here. Just look at my rep, and now see your own. It proves since neither of us does gfx or other shit, that most of what you say is just fanboyism and stereotypical bullcrap that nobody appreciates. So don't come crying to me about your rep. Instead, stop acting like a tool and a douche and make factual points to earn the respect and rep of others.

"see the edits fool"

dude, you are constantly editing your post. When I´m finished replying then oh look another edit by Cyborg. Geez, so don't blame me for keeping up with that.


You saying "I'm a much better debater" tells me a much about you. You see a really good debater doesn't have to say that. He just proves it. I don't have to look at your rep, many of the people here are 10-14 year old so they just give up rep for practically everything that sounds good to them. I know you are intelligent but the points you are now making are somewhat amusing and bragging about rep from 13 year olds is just.... ;D
When I vm'ed you the point was that you should've gave Mugi neg rep from the same thing (but brown tongue?) and also you should've seen that guy was trolling but people are what they are I can't help it xd

I do agree on a certain point with you on your arguement but the points you are making out are imo reaching out etc like that other quote from Minato smh...If you come up with something solid then fine, but for now I have nothing to believe that Tobi isn't Madara.

And btw calling someone fanboy and all that, just proves you are frustrated 'cause you can't handle the fact I'm arguing with you about this. So please respond like an adult next time, if you truly are 21.



EDIT: also add to that when I have time I will reply to one of those massive texts of yours and this time I'm going to adress the whole part. I didn't wanna get into that earlier since I saw NvsG was on it already.



EDIT2: lol dude again you edit that one post and this time deleted few sentences that I quoted : DD... It seems that you truly have a low esteem, all that message deleting, saying that "I already proved my wisdom to you", "look at my rep" and "I'm a much better debater than you" are all signs of that. So it's always difficult to argue with your kind since you just wanna get the feeling that you accomplished something on internet since you seem to have low esteem in real life. Thus you never accept loss.

 

[Cyborg]

"see the edits fool"

dude, you are constantly editing your post. When I´m finished replying then oh look another edit by Cyborg. Geez, so don't blame me for keeping up with that.


You saying "I'm a much better debater" tells me a much about you. You see a really good debater doesn't have to say that. He just proves it. I don't have to look at your rep, many of the people here are 10-14 year old so they just give up rep for practically everything that sounds good to them. I know you are intelligent but the points you are now making are somewhat amusing and bragging about rep from 13 year olds is just.... ;D
When I vm'ed you the point was that you should've gave Mugi neg rep from the same thing (but brown tongue?) and also you should've seen that guy was trolling but people are what they are I can't help it xd

I do agree on a certain point with you on your arguement but the points you are making out are imo reaching out etc like that other quote from Minato smh...If you come up with something solid then fine, but for now I have nothing to believe that Tobi isn't Madara.

And btw calling someone fanboy and all that, just proves you are frustrated 'cause you can't handle the fact I'm arguing with you about this. So please respond like an adult next time, if you truly are 21.



EDIT: also add to that when I have time I will reply to one of those massive texts of yours and this time I'm going to adress the whole part. I didn't wanna get into that earlier since I saw NvsG was on it already.



EDIT2: lol dude again you edit that one post and this time deleted few sentences that I quoted : DD... It seems that you truly have a low esteem, all that message deleting, saying that "I already proved my wisdom to you", "look at my rep" and "I'm a much better debater than you" are all signs of that. So it's always difficult to argue with your kind since you just wanna get the feeling that you accomplished something on internet since you seem to have low esteem in real life. Thus you never accept loss.

I started with an argument against this thread by making solid points, almost all of which you ignored and then decided to quote me out of context. Its because i said something which disproved what you had said earlier in the thread. You could have made an attempt to address my post properly, but you instead chose to prove you were right, without listening to or acknowledging my points, you constantly attempt to show others who disagree with you in a negative light. You accuse me of having low self esteem whereas you have none. I did'nt even bother with you, you decided to troll me first because you obviously felt you had something to prove, so you should really take your own advice. And the way you keep replying proves this. You're a sorry nobody who likes calling others out here over the internet and because you have no life, you keep accusing them and stereotyping them though ironically your posts actually paint a picture that exposes you as the person you accuse me of being lol.

And if this place is infested with only 13 or 14 year olds that are fools then are'nt you a loser to be on these forums at all? Assuming you are much older than this. Can't handle the fact that you're arguing....? Lol, you don't know me at all son, so don't even try to stereotype me, you'll only make yourself look like a fool, which you are. I did'nt want to engage in detail with you because i did'nt have time and you were being stupid for not addressing my whole post. And your argument about a person being good at something and not saying it is crap, too. Muhammad Ali was the greatest boxer in history, and he always called himself the greatest. People who think highly of themselves will tell their positive points, which i did. So that rubbishes your esteem debate. You see, you contradict yourself so much that you should really just give up, your coming across as a troll and an unfunny and bad one at that.


And i mentioned the rep bit because you have such low self value and are a hypocrite, that while you claim not to care about rep by 13-14year olds, you went out of your way to vms me telling me to '**** off' for giving you negative rep.It shows that you very much care about rep, you just chose to ignore or belittle it in your arguments because you have very little of it. And i always give rep or deduct it when its deserved, and i have neg repped Mugiwara and/or other mods but only when it was deserved by the statement.

 

[Hawker]

I started with an argument against this thread by making solid points, almost all of which you ignored and then decided to quote me out of context. Its because i said something which disproved what you had said earlier in the thread. You could have made an attempt to address my post properly, but you instead chose to prove you were right, without listening to or acknowledging my points, you constantly attempt to show others who disagree with you in a negative light. You accuse me of having low self esteem whereas you have none. I did'nt even bother with you, you decided to troll me first because you obviously felt you had something to prove, so you should really take your own advice. And the way you keep replying proves this. You're a sorry nobody who likes calling others out here over the internet and because you have no life, you keep accusing them and stereotyping them though ironically your posts actually paint a picture that exposes you as the person you accuse me of being lol.

And if this place is infested with only 13 or 14 year olds that are fools then are'nt you a loser to be on these forums at all? Assuming you are much older than this. Can't handle the fact that you're arguing....? Lol, you don't know me at all son, so don't even try to stereotype me, you'll only make yourself look like a fool, which you are. I did'nt want to engage in detail with you because i did'nt have time and you were being stupid for not addressing my whole post. And your argument about a person being good at something and not saying it is crap, too. Muhammad Ali was the greatest boxer in history, and he always called himself the greatest. People who think highly of themselves will tell their positive points, which i did. So that rubbishes your esteem debate. You see, you contradict yourself so much that you should really just give up, your coming across as a troll and an unfunny and bad one at that.


And i mentioned the rep bit because you have such low self value and are a hypocrite, that while you claim not to care about rep by 13-14year olds, you went out of your way to vms me telling me to '**** off' for giving you negative rep.It shows that you very much care about rep, you just chose to ignore or belittle it in your arguments because you have very little of it. And i always give rep or deduct it when its deserved, and i have neg repped Mugiwara and/or other mods but only when it was deserved by the statement.

" you constantly attempt to show others who disagree with you in a negative light" <--that I don't do.

You're right about that I didn't adress your whole post. I should've 'cause Iknow you made solid points. I know NvsG was gonna do it so I just adressed that one part which was to me a huge beacon of light in that text.

I didn't troll you lol, you started this whole thing after that first post of mine by calling me a fanboy,douche and whatever. All that and all that after that is just hateful talk and troll talk I can say. You should've just been adult about it. But apparently you got frustrated when I proved a flaw in one aspect of your theory.

And I didn't contradict myself at the self esteem part, you just said I did, but it doesn't make it so. It's just my opinion but you can be all Muhammed Ali like or have a low esteem, I don't really care. I just told you how it sounded like.

Dude I already explained you the rep part, I don't really care that after all, you should at this point already realize that... ..I already got frustrated as Mugi said the same thing and you surely didn't gave him that. So I hate brown nosing, sue me. Also the guy was obviously trolling so I'm annoyed by people who just accuse people of flaming a troll and not realizing what's really going on. It's like medevil times when they burned so called "witches".

But really this has gone so much offtopic that I don't care to continue this. All I know you started with name calling stuff instead of being mature and I replied. All of because I didn't adress your whole post. Which I'm gonna do next when I really have time.

 

[EternalMangekyouRinnegan]

" you constantly attempt to show others who disagree with you in a negative light" <--that I don't do.

You're right about that I didn't adress your whole post. I should've 'cause Iknow you made solid points. I know NvsG was gonna do it so I just adressed that one part which was to me a huge beacon of light in that text.

I didn't troll you lol, you started this whole thing after that first post of mine by calling me a fanboy,douche and whatever. All that and all that after that is just hateful talk and troll talk I can say. You should've just been adult about it. But apparently you got frustrated when I proved a flaw in one aspect of your theory.

And I didn't contradict myself at the self esteem part, you just said I did, but it doesn't make it so. It's just my opinion but you can be all Muhammed Ali like or have a low esteem, I don't really care. I just told you how it sounded like.

Dude I already explained you the rep part, I don't really care that after all, you should at this point already realize that... ..I already got frustrated as Mugi said the same thing and you surely didn't gave him that. So I hate brown nosing, sue me. Also the guy was obviously trolling so I'm annoyed by people who just accuse people of flaming a troll and not realizing what's really going on. It's like medevil times when they burned so called "witches".

But really this has gone so much offtopic that I don't care to continue this. All I know you started with name calling stuff instead of being mature and I replied. All of because I didn't adress your whole post. Which I'm gonna do next when I really have time.

You and NaruVsGoku got owned, give up already.

If you want to prove something then adress the whole post of Cyborg, not just a small part of it, where you have already been disproven but you are too dumb to understand that, otherwise you are just trolling and your posts can't be considered seriosly.

See the edits, fool.

And again you just keep playing the 'haha i pwned you' statement with no basis for that claim. I bet you love self pity, you sorry lil ****.

And i'm a much better debater than you as i make solid points that are acknowledged by a majority of the members here. Just look at my rep, and now see your own. It proves since neither of us does gfx or other shit, that most of what you say is just fanboyism and stereotypical bullcrap that nobody appreciates. So don't come crying to me about your rep. Instead, stop acting like a tool and a douche and make factual points to earn the respect and rep of others.

The funniest part is that I have less posts but bigger rep then this joker. Like you said, he's a hypocrite and a douche, not much to expect from that kind.

"Hawker will become famous soon enough" not a chance, lol

 

[Hawker]

Anyways lol onto my disagreements:
Madara knowing about Nagato does'nt prove anything. It only shows that there is a connection between the 2 characters, Tobi and Madara. That i don't deny, as Tobi said he was the one who gave Nagato the rinnegan, not Madara. Its possible that Madara gave his rinnegan eyes to Tobi before his death (the connection between Tobi and Madara, while beyond dispute, is still vague), Tobi may have been to the hidden rain village and have known about an uzumaki who lived there.....don't say it happened waaayy late. The latest manga chapter shows that Madara did'nt die at the valley of the end.....the senju cells could have helped him live for a long time, up until the time Nagato was around. So there's no mystery there.

What can I say to a comment like that where you say "Tobi may have been to the hidden village of rain and have known about Uzumaki" ? Yeah everything is possible but you should at least back up your speculation somehow.
Still I think dude that these points are reaching out. And actually they aren't significant in your theory. And you conclude it by saying there's no mystery there and actually you didn't solve anything.

The kyuubi can be controlled by anyone who possesses the power of Hashirama(senju cells probly) and has sharingan or the 'power of the uchiha' if you like. Tobi just needed those 2 things, which he does have. And if Tobi is so honest as you claim, he said this thing himself, and potentially Danzo may have been able to tame the 9 tails as well. And while Itachi did say that only Madara had done it, he also said Madara is Tobi and that was a flaw. He clearly did'nt know of the real Madara being dead, or at any rate was definitely deceived by Tobi. Another proof that Madara was'nt the only one: the Sage of the 6 paths controlled all tailed beasts initially, hell he created them. And the 1st hokage and Naruto we know have controlled the 9 tails, its not impossible for a tough ninja to do so(Tobi is that, i'll concede).

wow, really who could this Tobi then be if not Madara?? No one but Hashirama from senju could control Kyuubi. Even Danzo couldn't do that. <-- so this again says it has to be someone at the same power level with Hashirama. So it's not that you just need senju cells and sharingan and you can control kyyubi.

Well how do you know when real Madara died then?..In the end Tobi has that same spiky hair as Madara had when he met Itachi the first time, so it's possible Tobi as we know him now didn't even exist back then. Yeah it's just hair but it has to have somekind of a meaning to be shown like that to us.

None of those witnesses ever saw the real Madara. Why...? Because if they did their reactions to seeing Tobi's face would have been different. So there was no real way for them to compare it to the real deal to see if tobi was a fake or not. Tobi was the head of akatsuki, the members like Kisame and Itachi very likely took his word at face value. But we the readers know better. We know he lied about the 9 tails attack being a natural disaster to Sasuke, and he has almost definitely lied about his own identity as well. So there's really no way for you to assert that 'everything Tobi has said was proved true...' thats just not the case and i believe you know this fact.

That's where you're wrong. Kisame saw his face and I'm sure as Madara being world known criminal and there's a statue of him, then it was easy for Kisame to regognize him. And you said: "They have a statue of George Washington...so do you know exactly what he looks like? His color of hair, eyes or a million other details that statues can never show....?" ..well I'd say maybe I would in fact know it's George Washington if I saw him. Because he's so world known. And that kind of "million other detail" things are irrelevant in anime/manga. Remember when 1st and 2nd Hokage appeared to fight 3rd? Anbu captain recognized them from the statue.

Kisame instantly said "you're Uchiha Madara", so why would he say that if it was just a hunch or he really didn't know what he looked like?

And if Tobi is just the result of some technique, then which tech is that...? Give me an example from the manga which shows that izanagi can create another version of a person, not a clone which dies with the original but a whole different conscious...? Seriously, boy this is not playing out the way you're imagining it.

Tobi himself said after telling he's Madara, "I'm just a shell of my former self", so this strengthen the possibility that he is somekind of version or part of the real Madara. No one else know's, that what Tobi said, means and it doesn't mean nothing to anybody, so only Tobi had a reason to say it. So it wasn't to confuse anyone or deceive 'cause we to this day can't know what the former shell means but it strenghten's my theory.

And you keep saying Fugaku, Izuna etc were all shown dead but so too was Madara in the same way and this is emphatically proven by the fact that he's been resurrected yet you keep saying he's Tobi...? Why? Why is madara, who died more likely to be tobi than Izuna who died, or fugaku who died etc. While Izuna, Fugaku and Kagami were NOT revived by edo tensei, many lesser ninjas(asuma, zabuza etc) were. And Madara was revived. So he is , by rights and facts clearly the least likely candidate to be Tobi. What is likely is that the real Madara is connected to Tobi, that they have met and hashed out a joint agenda/plan. That does'nt make them the same person.

Kisame wouldn't mistake Fukagu to Madara that's for sure. Fukagu and Kagami are not part of Naruto anymore. Just sidecharacters far less important than Madara. So that's why I think they haven't been resurrected.
Izuna was shown dead, that's all I'm going to say to that. He also was said to lose his eyes so there's another reason why there's no "use" for him anymore.

The knowledege of Tobi is due to the fact that he met Madara after the fight at the valley of the end which Madara survived, Madara directed him to form Akatsuki and gave him the info on the uchiha, their history and all the knowledge on the tablet which he had read. He also very likely told him about the senju + uchiha power= control of kyuubi trick....

Why would Madara trust so much into some stranger?? Telling him almost all the critical info of Uchiha.

It would be though a strong possibility if Kisame wouldn't have seen Tobi's face and Onoki hearing his voice.

In conclusion,how can you ignore the statements of Madara from the last 2 chapters...? Or Kabuto, who calls Tobi the fake Madara? Madara himself says you know of our plan, not my plan which is what he should say if Tobi is just his long lost other half. Anyways, thats impossible in any case as its already shown that a soul that is not in the pure world(Madara being Tobi means his soul is in the impurel, i.e this world) cannot be brought back.

It's obvious that Kabuto calls Tobi fake Madara 'cause he in fact isn't the real Madara and as I said, a somewhat part of him or a copy etc.
And why wouldn't Madara say "our plan". Tobi clearly is another being. If there was a copy of you somewhere would you say us or we? 'Cause Tobi has his own will etc so that makes Madara recognize Tobi as "he".

Also apart form the evidence, the another thing why I disagree with your theory is that if it would be that Tobi is NOT Madara then all the great ninjas would be made out fools. Minato, Itachi, Danzo, Onoki, Kisame...that would be lame and how could any great ninja have any credibility after that. I'm sure that's not Kishi's intention.

I say you have very good points and I never said otherwise. It's wrong to just accuse someone of being a fanboy if I adress one part of your text and prove it (partly at least) wrong.

But good theory still and I respect it even though I disagree.

You and NaruVsGoku got owned, give up already.

If you want to prove something then adress the whole post of Cyborg, not just a small part of it, where you have already been disproven but you are too dumb to understand that, otherwise you are just trolling and your posts can't be considered seriosly.

Already did, please just go do your mamas laundry or cleaning up your room, you're not flaming properly. You say I was being disproven, as I already stated why I wasn't. But that's your opinion.

The funniest part is that I have less posts but bigger rep then this joker. Like you said, he's a hypocrite and a douche, not much to expect from that kind.

"Hawker will become famous soon enough" not a chance, lol

oh please the rep thing again.. xd...but really when you call someone a hypocrite you should tell where you are basing that on. But obviously you are not basing anything of anything, you are just yelling random troll stuff out loud. geez lmao

 

[pilyop]

Hi all,

I'll just repost here a thread I've opened under a 'trollish' title Tobi=Nagato Uchiha:

Real Madara referred to Nagato as a brat and referred to Onoki as a kid/brat.

He can't be referring to "Nagato/Pein" for that will make Pein as old as Onoki or in the same generation.

Real Madara must be referring to "Tobi/Nagato", his apprentice. This "Tobi/Nagato" has to be from the Uchiha clan too.

Real Madara imbued Tobi/Nagato powers including the Rinnegan. His task was to revive his master.

Instead, Tobi had other plans, assumed the character of his master, Madara (Tobi became fake Madara), gave his Rinnegan powers to another person, also named Nagato of the Uzumaki clan. Now Nagato/Pein's task was to revive Tobi if he ever dies, but instead used the technique in reviving Konoha villagers.

Tobi, being a student of Madara, is also a powerful Ninja but not on the level of the Real Madara. He was also able to control the demon fox and lead akatsuki. But he lost his arm with his fight with Torune and lost his left eye with his fight with Konan.

Of course, Tobi, being closely related to the mysterious Zetsu, was able to grow off his arm instantly. Tobi does not seem to have Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, for when he used Izanagi against Konan, it closed, and had to "retrieve" the Rinnegan eye from Pein. In contrast, the Real Madara "awakened" the Rinnegan.

The last manga discards the "splitting theory" that Madara splitted himself somehow when he died, since Kabuto referred to Tobi as fake, and the demon fox never sensed anything on Tobi that closely resembles the real Madara (no reference in manga or anime whatsoever)

 

[Avani]

You and NaruVsGoku got owned, give up already.

If you want to prove something then adress the whole post of Cyborg, not just a small part of it, where you have already been disproven but you are too dumb to understand that, otherwise you are just trolling and your posts can't be considered seriosly.

You stop playing sidekick for another member. Either post a useful argument or a proper flame or keep shut.

The funniest part is that I have less posts but bigger rep then this joker. Like you said, he's a hypocrite and a douche, not much to expect from that kind.

"Hawker will become famous soon enough" not a chance, lol

Such a lame flame! Do you want us to look at your posts and check out that rep thing's worth?

I have got sufficient rep and more than some members whom I respect very much. I may occasionally find out flaws and mistakes in their posts or suppliment it, if they left out anything. But, I simply know that they make better posts than me. It doesn't matter how many rep points they have in the end.

 

[Cyborg]

What can I say to a comment like that where you say "Tobi may have been to the hidden village of rain and have known about Uzumaki" ? Yeah everything is possible but you should at least back up your speculation somehow.
Still I think dude that these points are reaching out. And actually they aren't significant in your theory. And you conclude it by saying there's no mystery there and actually you didn't solve anything.

There is no way to back up that speculation, if i said otherwise it would be a lie. And i said Madara, as in the person who has been resurrected may have been to the rain village .....you have taken my comment out of perspective. I did NOT claim that it is a given that Madara went to the rain village, i disproved the assertion that it was impossible for him to do so. Madara did not die after his fight with the First Hokage, so i said it is not impossible that he managed to stay alive and eventually went to the rain village and therefore knew Nagato. That was the purpose of my statement, that you do not seem to have grasped.

wow, really who could this Tobi then be if not Madara?? No one but Hashirama from senju could control Kyuubi. Even Danzo couldn't do that. <-- so this again says it has to be someone at the same power level with Hashirama. So it's not that you just need senju cells and sharingan and you can control kyyubi.

Well how do you know when real Madara died then?..In the end Tobi has that same spiky hair as Madara had when he met Itachi the first time, so it's possible Tobi as we know him now didn't even exist back then. Yeah it's just hair but it has to have somekind of a meaning to be shown like that to us.

There are many candidates, the first son of the Sage of 6 paths being one of them. He is very likely to have been a powerful figure, and would have both motive and vast knowledge, so its a possibility. And no, Naruto has controlled Kyuubi, Minato sealed it, Kushnina was a jinchuriki after the death of the 1st Hokage so its not impossible for the kyuubi or tailed beasts in general to be controlled. Killer Bee has control. So Hashi is not the only one who is capable of taming the kyuubi.

It does'nt matter when the real Madara died. Only that he died after meeting Nagato as that meeting has been suggested in the manga.

That's where you're wrong. Kisame saw his face and I'm sure as Madara being world known criminal and there's a statue of him, then it was easy for Kisame to regognize him. And you said: "They have a statue of George Washington...so do you know exactly what he looks like? His color of hair, eyes or a million other details that statues can never show....?" ..well I'd say maybe I would in fact know it's George Washington if I saw him. Because he's so world known. And that kind of "million other detail" things are irrelevant in anime/manga. Remember when 1st and 2nd Hokage appeared to fight 3rd? Anbu captain recognized them from the statue.

Kisame instantly said "you're Uchiha Madara", so why would he say that if it was just a hunch or he really didn't know what he looked like?

Who saw him more, kisame or zetsu....? Answer : Zetsu, a thousand times more. And this is what zetsu said:

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'We'd better tell Tobi..' Why not call him Madara? The person who is closest calls him Tobi, its for a reason. And if he's world known, its more reason for Zetsu to call him by his proper name as Zetsu would have seen the statues too, yes? Remember when Tobi loses an arm in a fight, zetsu re joins his limbs. Kisame, or no one else, knew Tobi as well, or was that well acquainted with his physical self as Zetsu was, his word has much more value than Kisame's.

Tobi himself said after telling he's Madara, "I'm just a shell of my former self", so this strengthen the possibility that he is somekind of version or part of the real Madara. No one else know's, that what Tobi said, means and it doesn't mean nothing to anybody, so only Tobi had a reason to say it. So it wasn't to confuse anyone or deceive 'cause we to this day can't know what the former shell means but it strenghten's my theory.

Well this theory you have is invalid. Its an established fact that Tobi was deceiving others. He deceived Sasuke, deceived the whole world about his identity and possibly even deceived Itachi. This was all part of his plan to throw everyone off the track of learning his real identity.

Kisame wouldn't mistake Fukagu to Madara that's for sure. Fukagu and Kagami are not part of Naruto anymore. Just sidecharacters far less important than Madara. So that's why I think they haven't been resurrected.
Izuna was shown dead, that's all I'm going to say to that. He also was said to lose his eyes so there's another reason why there's no "use" for him anymore.

Again, you're giving Kisame too much credit. Why would'nt he mistake it? Read my above para about zetsu again.

Why would Madara trust so much into some stranger?? Telling him almost all the critical info of Uchiha.

It would be though a strong possibility if Kisame wouldn't have seen Tobi's face and Onoki hearing his voice.

Again with the Kisame thing, seriously get over it, instead look at the Zetsu case i have presented. And Madara did it because he did'nt have any choice, he was about to die(kishi has a lot to reveal here).

It's obvious that Kabuto calls Tobi fake Madara 'cause he in fact isn't the real Madara and as I said, a somewhat part of him or a copy etc.
And why wouldn't Madara say "our plan". Tobi clearly is another being. If there was a copy of you somewhere would you say us or we? 'Cause Tobi has his own will etc so that makes Madara recognize Tobi as "he".

Also apart form the evidence, the another thing why I disagree with your theory is that if it would be that Tobi is NOT Madara then all the great ninjas would be made out fools. Minato, Itachi, Danzo, Onoki, Kisame...that would be lame and how could any great ninja have any credibility after that. I'm sure that's not Kishi's intention.

Wait, what?? I'm arguing against you because you've been saying Tobi is Madara, if he's a fake then, well he is not Madara. If you accept he is another being then there is no disagreement here, lol.

No, they would'nt. Minato never said Tobi is Madara, he merely speculated that he might be. He lets go of that speculation immediately. In the end he was not sure himself of Tobi's identity, which is why he mentioned him as the 'masked man' to Naruto. Itachi was fooled because he was in the Akatsuki, which was controlled by Tobi, and Danzo's info came from Itachi. No one can blame Itachi in those circumstances. Onoki just called him Madara because that's what he claimed to be, and i've already explained why Kisame's view is not important.

I say you have very good points and I never said otherwise. It's wrong to just accuse someone of being a fanboy if I adress one part of your text and prove it (partly at least) wrong.

But good theory still and I respect it even though I disagree.

Fair enough, lol.

 

[FPS]

They will never reveal who tobi is...

 

[NarutoVsGoku]

I already answered this one :



I hope it's simple enough for some people to understand it.

..................... Herp Derp!

Could be both. We are left with just speculations on this matter. Tobi may have been the one to capture kyuubi and give it to Madara so he could attack Leaf with it.

you mistaken me asking whether kyuubi knew OR recognized tobi as "or" meaning "either or" when i meant "in other words" knew and recognize are synomous so you are admitting that kyuubi knew and recognized tobi when he said "you"

and so if kyuubi recognized or knew tobi when he said "you" than who else can tobi be if kyuubi only has a history of dealing with madara as the only uchiha to control him?

do you understand this simple logic i am getting at? or will you just respond that i am being biased/simple minded/imaginative/wishful thinking/not providing manga to prove my point (even though ironically i have made provided many manga pages and you have provided NONE to prove my point)

Why do you think Kishimoto choose this kind of word? "You.." and not "Madara!" or "This chakra.." like he said in the latest chapter when Madara tried to summon him. There's definetly some twist in there (from a standpoint where Tobi is not Madara).

what difference does it make. you would come up with an excuse to why tobi isnt madara if kyuubi said "madara" or "this chakra".. you already admitted taht kyuubi knew and recognized tobi so think about it really hard exactly what that means!

Anyway, how would Kyuubi even recognize Tobi as Madara? If it's a creation than it shouldn't have same chakra. I doubt it's split body of Madara, he didn't get any of Madara's power, instead Tobi has his own powers.

and what are you basing this on??? "wishful thinking" whos to say creation wouldnt have the same chakra as madara? even a naruto shadow clone resembles narutos chakra. during the chunnin exams even nejis byakugan couldnt tell which naruto was the real one when naruto used shadow clones and a shadow clone is narutos creation so wtf is you saying when you say creation wouldnt have resembled madara?

and if lets say creation wouldnt resembled madara (hypothetically) that destroys your whole point because you are saying nobody would resemble madaras chakra not even a creation so that would only mean that kyuubi recognized madara for being mdadara because nobody not even a creation can duplicate madara chakra. smh great comeback EMR

Izanagi has this ability yes, but sage was the only one who could do this. If it weren't for Oro than Danzous Izanagi would be even shittier. Tobi, if I am correct had 5 minute Izanagi. What's the difference between Tobi and Madara? They both have senju cells and they both have sharingan, they both can use Izanagi. How come Madara is able to create living things like God, and infuse them with souls? This is possible but it would be insane, seeing as how Tobi has a wall full of sharingans he could have made an army of powerful creations such as Zetsu.

"Izanagi has this ability yes"

that alones proves my point and debunks yours. thank you for agreeing.

inazagi having the ability means that it is possible hat madara used it to recreate himself as tobi madara. nothing to prove that ONLY sage could use inazagi like that and nothing to disprove that madara couldnt use it like that. if you disagree, manga links or gtfo.

I don't have time to go through all your posts but mostly your posts are :

Spoiler

biased.
specualtions.
wishful thining.
not factual.
was not evidence.
doesnt make sense.

just because you say it is, doesnt make it so, unless you provide examples or reasons why. you saying i am biased for example doesnt mean that is true unless you prove and give reasons to how i am biased. so what you just said in this part means shit. why? because you did not give valid reasons.

You don't have actual proof of Tobi being Madara's clone/creation, you revolve around the fact that he is using Madara's name but you fail to understand why. They are two different personalities with two different abilities. If you say it's somewhat creation of Madara than it's not Madara. It is a being or a person on it's own. Call it Tobi. If you believe it's a clone/split body than yes it's still Madara. Don't confuse these things, ok?

"If you believe it's a clone/split body than yes it's still Madara."

this is the possibility that i have been saying from the first post... sooooo WTF is you saying ma dude? all i am saying its a possibility and i dont think you even understand the basis of what ive been saying from page 1.

Your only proof is that Tobi is using Madara's name, your whole theory revolves around that and that's why it's just a huge speculations and nothing more. Get it?

smh

Terrible examples. Both Kakashi and Shino has a style and they could be still be recognized with uncovered faces.
Why didn't you mention Anbu who whole face covering masks like Tobi? Oh, right, because that would own your statement and make it invalid! Anbu are using masks to hide their identity, for the same reason Tobi is still using it!

has style that could be recognized. just like kyuubi recognized tobi. or kisame recognized tobi to be madara. or itachi recognized tobi to be madara. and etc etc etc.

btw at least i give examples. you breathe hot air.

That's minimum 38 years !! That makes you ancient! Did you just pull rank on the guy?






Not really impressive list as it's stretched to make it longer while many points are repeated. Besides the amesrasu or Konan bombs etc failed and virutelly didn't affect Tobi while the attack on the Kage meet was never meant to succeed in the first place.

[/spoiler]

I think Cybog will say the pretty much same thing- MInato couldn't think of anyone who could be behind the mask but Madara but, he rejected that name right there - in the page you gave yourself. Minato in the end says it doesn't matter who the masked man was just that he was more dangerous than the kyuubi for Konoha.

MInato simply didn't play the "who is behind the mask" game for long. After the initial curiocity - probably to decide what to expect from his opponant and to have an idea about his skills he simply went ahead by the info based on his observation right in that battle.

Not commenting on your theory- for all I know Madara pulled a Muu and split himself before his death. Just found this particular argument weak.

HEY YOU'RE THE GUY IN MY SIGNATURE!!!

You must be registered for see images

And you think i'm embarassing myself...? You should just hide in shame after having been clearly pwned not just by me but by EMR and even Isthatnecessary as a neutral person can clearly see that you don't know jack about this argument and look above at the bolded, look at what you said, i disproved it completely.


NarutoVsGoku: I was'nt talking to you in that last post, have patience i'll reply to you.

LOL i know you wasnt talking to me now. i realized that after i responded.

Touche! This is a great post. You should edit it, fix your grammar, delete insults etc and make a thread out of it.

A post of such caliber deserves a thread of it's own.



This is actualy very simple. Kabuto was complimenting the real Uchiha Madara. If it wasn't for Madara then Tobi wouldn't let him in his team. I think it's pretty obvious but I guess someone thinks that Kabuto is actually refrering to Tobi :shrug:


P.S. I love how you already answer all the noob questions that these Tobi=Madara fanboys are gonna come up with. They are so predictable.

lol kiss ass much man? you got something brown on your nose. yea its right there. a lil to the left man. there you go.

 

[EternalMangekyouRinnegan]

You stop playing sidekick for another member. Either post a useful argument or a proper flame or keep shut.

I was the one who started to argue with NaruVsGoku, Cyborg jumped in. After couple of texts of wall, I gave up on explaining anything to these guys as it's equivalent of talking to a brick wall.

This is why you didn't see any "useful arguments" from me. Atleast read the whole thread from the start before you humiliate yourself.

Oh, and I really do think that his post is worthy of thread as it is one of the best ones I have seen in disproving the "Madara = Tobi" theories.

Such a lame flame! Do you want us to look at your posts and check out that rep thing's worth?

Go ahead, I should use some of the +rep you're going to give me.

 

[-Liquid Cefka-]

Again, nice one. +Rep.

All you noobs, read this and shut the f*ck up.

 

[Avani]

I was the one who started to argue with NaruVsGoku, Cyborg jumped in. After couple of texts of wall, I gave up on explaining anything to these guys as it's equivalent of talking to a brick wall.

This is why you didn't see any "useful arguments" from me. Atleast read the whole thread from the start before you humiliate yourself.

Oh please, come up with some new flame. 350 of your 600 something postsd contain the same line it seems.. You throw insults and call everyone a troll for disagreeing with your theories while you made a trollish title for your tobi ID thread to draw attention..

humiliate myself? lol Kiddo! You really do not want to start flame game with me. I have posted flames hardly 3-4 times but, when I do, I go all out. You won't find a place to hide.

Oh, and I really do think that his post is worthy of thread as it is one of the best ones I have seen in disproving the "Madara = Tobi" theories.

Go ahead, I should use some of the +rep you're going to give me.

If Madara died then Tobi would die.

You must be registered for see links

Bunshin. Bunshin. Bunshin.

It seems you stole NarutoVSgoku's theory already. No +rep for hypocrite copycat.

 

[Hawker]

I was the one who started to argue with NaruVsGoku, Cyborg jumped in. After couple of texts of wall, I gave up on explaining anything to these guys as it's equivalent of talking to a brick wall.

This is why you didn't see any "useful arguments" from me. Atleast read the whole thread from the start before you humiliate yourself.

Oh, and I really do think that his post is worthy of thread as it is one of the best ones I have seen in disproving the "Madara = Tobi" theories.



Go ahead, I should use some of the +rep you're going to give me.

ITN is humiliating himself?...lol man you're the only one here doing that..

I've seen dogs and cars smarter than you..actually most dogs and cats are smarter than you

Why don't you do us a favor and f*ck off?..You don't get it? Two words: "f*ck" pretty easy to understand, "off" really easy to understand.

 

[siyo]

Lol, a lot of flaming going on here.Protect yourself at all times U_U

 

[Cyborg]

You and NaruVsGoku got owned, give up already.

If you want to prove something then adress the whole post of Cyborg, not just a small part of it, where you have already been disproven but you are too dumb to understand that, otherwise you are just trolling and your posts can't be considered seriosly.




The funniest part is that I have less posts but bigger rep then this joker. Like you said, he's a hypocrite and a douche, not much to expect from that kind.

"Hawker will become famous soon enough" not a chance, lol

They have no solid points, i agree. It is completely illogical for Tobi to be Madara. And also, they don't read or pretend not to understand all major points, ignore or skip them and then expect not to get flamed.

You stop playing sidekick for another member. Either post a useful argument or a proper flame or keep shut.





Such a lame flame! Do you want us to look at your posts and check out that rep thing's worth?

I have got sufficient rep and more than some members whom I respect very much. I may occasionally find out flaws and mistakes in their posts or suppliment it, if they left out anything. But, I simply know that they make better posts than me. It doesn't matter how many rep points they have in the end.

EMR makes some solid points. Get over the flaming, this is the internet,don't take shit so seriously here. Especially when those 2 have put up a proposition that makes no sense, their arguments just adjust in any outlandish way that could support this theory.

 

[PositiveEmotions]

as i said it was clear that tobi was never madara a loooooooooooooooooooong time ago