[Discussion] Pain and Itachi

[chickmagnet]

U see now these are all good points but than again remember 2 how he also destroyed jiraya and not to mention if he still the path of life and death watever its called he can bring back any of the 1s he lost

 

[Inception]

Blade of Totsuka seals the body and the soul so Pain's body would be useless if pierced. Pain was not sick. It was the side effect of using Shinra Tensei and him being in a weakened state from the fight vs. Jiraiya. But that doesn't change the fact that he was not at his full power .

Pain does seem like the stronger one here but I don't think he can get through Yata's Mirror. He was exceptionally fast vs. Naruto's fox mode and held his own with only god realm. He can outlast Itachi, that's for sure.

 

[NarutoVsGoku]

it would be hard to say, considewring we dont know the full power of itachi (and we also dont know if that was the full power of his abilitys).. but then again we havnt seen the full powers of pain aswell, he was sick too. and almost everyfight we've seen from him, he has always had the odds against him and never went full force at the beginning. but from what we've seen so far i would have to say pain.

the reason is, is that itachis genjutsu (from what we know) can only tag one person (or body) at a time, and we can not compare jmans genjutsu because they were 2 different types of gen's (sound, and eye contact to itachi) sound goes everywere so its hard to not get caught in it,., but anyway, and its been shown that the susano'o isnt indestructible (but itachi has them damn mystical weapons)..

idk, but if pain starts off hard, then its over for any body. gedo mazou, chibaku tensei, or overwhelm him with summonings while reviving every one then its over for itachi even with susano'o (considering he cant stay in it very long).. pains chakra is on another level, so ill go for pain.. and im a bigger itachi fan so my pick isnt bias at all like most others.

IF itachi uses a genjutsu than all the Pains will most likely be affected because they all see what each other see.. if one Pain sees Itachis eyes or finger than they all do and its a rap..

isnt that how Jiraiya caught Pain in a genjutsu?? correct me if im wrong

 

[NarutoVsGoku]

Blade of Totsuka seals the body and the soul so Pain's body would be useless if pierced. Pain was not sick. It was the side effect of using Shinra Tensei and him being in a weakened state from the fight vs. Jiraiya. But that doesn't change the fact that he was not at his full power .

Pain does seem like the stronger one here but I don't think he can get through Yata's Mirror. He was exceptionally fast vs. Naruto's fox mode and held his own with only god realm. He can outlast Itachi, that's for sure.

Pain could have more Pain bodies summoned or made...

 

[Inception]

U see now these are all good points but than again remember 2 how he also destroyed jiraya

i wouldn't say "destroyed". Jiraiya fought Pain without knowing any of his abilities and how Rinnegan even worked. Pain had the advantage of knowing his master's techniques. Jiraiya fought well, killed 3 bodies and then came all 6 bodies. He could have escaped but he chose to stay and learned the Rinnegan's secret hence allowing Konoha and Naruto to defeat Pain. Nagato praised him at the end stating that Pain would not have won had Jiraiya known his secret.

 

[Draegod]

IF itachi uses a genjutsu than all the Pains will most likely be affected because they all see what each other see.. if one Pain sees Itachis eyes or finger than they all do and its a rap..

isnt that how Jiraiya caught Pain in a genjutsu?? correct me if im wrong

that is incorect, jman caught him because like i said before, it was a sound genjutsu as in 360 worth of sound (and dont sound travel faster then light? owell thats a sience Q),. why do you think the other paths of pain revived the others in less then 1 min it would seem and they wernt effected by the genjutsu, heck even nagato, the man that sees and hears everything they do or see wasnt effected. the pain bodys are nothing but dead bodys used as puppets (so to speak), and they dont efect what or how nagoto himself feels, the only thing that efects him is how much chakra he puts into them and thats it

 

[NarutoVsGoku]

that is incorect, jman caught him because like i said before, it was a sound genjutsu as in 360 worth of sound (and dont sound travel faster then light? owell thats a sience Q),. why do you think the other paths of pain revived the others in less then 1 min it would seem and they wernt effected by the genjutsu, heck even nagato, the man that sees and hears everything they do or see wasnt effected. the pain bodys are nothing but dead bodys used as puppets (so to speak), and they dont efect what or how nagoto himself feels, the only thing that efects him is how much chakra he puts into them and thats it

light travel faster...

and i know Jiraiya used sound but you dont hear with your eyes right?? all the Pains can see what the other is seeing so im thinking if one Pain sees Itachis eyes than they all do and they all fall under genjutsu..

 

[kisamexRocks]

light travel faster...

and i know Jiraiya used sound but you dont hear with your eyes right?? all the Pains can see what the other is seeing so im thinking if one Pain sees Itachis eyes than they all do and they all fall under genjutsu..

Well that is the disadvantage of shared vision. The only reason the other 3 were not effected was because they were in those pods and weren't active. Possibly the reason Nagato was effected was because he was too far away from the Genjutsu's effect. Possibly if he was closer or in the range he might be affected by the Genjutsu.

But if Jiraiya can defeat pain, so can itachi. Just remember that Jiraiya's only disadvantage was not knowing the truth behind Pain. If itachi knows the truth it will be easier for him aswell.

 

[Inception]

Well that is the disadvantage of shared vision. The only reason the other 3 were not effected was because they were in those pods and weren't active. Possibly the reason Nagato was effected was because he was too far away from the Genjutsu's effect. Possibly if he was closer or in the range he might be affected by the Genjutsu.

But if Jiraiya can defeat pain, so can itachi. Just remember that Jiraiya's only disadvantage was not knowing the truth behind Pain. If itachi knows the truth it will be easier for him aswell.

Agreed.

 

[nagato2]

Well that is the disadvantage of shared vision. The only reason the other 3 were not effected was because they were in those pods and weren't active. Possibly the reason Nagato was effected was because he was too far away from the Genjutsu's effect. Possibly if he was closer or in the range he might be affected by the Genjutsu.

But if Jiraiya can defeat pain, so can itachi. Just remember that Jiraiya's only disadvantage was not knowing the truth behind Pain. If itachi knows the truth it will be easier for him aswell.

WRONG!when one pain is facing one way do you think nagato or the other pains cant see in front of them,or when the animal path was trapped in gamabuntas mouth you think the deva path couldnt see around him,its like having six differant eyes,if one eye saw something it doesnt mean the other the other eyes cant see cant see anything but that.

 

[Draegod]

light travel faster...

and i know Jiraiya used sound but you dont hear with your eyes right?? all the Pains can see what the other is seeing so im thinking if one Pain sees Itachis eyes than they all do and they all fall under genjutsu..

also not correct, itachi can only catch one person at a time with his genjutsu. when he fought sasuke and got him in the tsukiomi, black and white zetsu saw his mangekyo and was not caught nor effected with the genjutsu.. another time was at the begenning when he fought naruto and got him with that one finger genjutsu, they all saw him do it (sakura, kakashi, and chiyo) but yet he was the only one caught (and they all saw and was the enemy).. these are all facts from the manga, so that whole "they all caught" isnt backed up from the manga, and like i said jman had sound genjutsu, so that is different.

 

[Draegod]

Well that is the disadvantage of shared vision. The only reason the other 3 were not effected was because they were in those pods and weren't active. Possibly the reason Nagato was effected was because he was too far away from the Genjutsu's effect. Possibly if he was closer or in the range he might be affected by the Genjutsu.

But if Jiraiya can defeat pain, so can itachi. Just remember that Jiraiya's only disadvantage was not knowing the truth behind Pain. If itachi knows the truth it will be easier for him aswell.

and also wrong, just because jman can beat him doesnt mean itachi can..

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oh my god!!!!! did you see how fast they were resummoned and close too jman!!! literaly it was seconds after killing them other pains, and obviouly he was close in the area. so that whole "they were still in there pods" is null and void! and he was still in sage mode! and let me remind you jman never faught god pain the main one, so if pain wasnt playing with him that battle would of been over b4 he turned into sagemode and that is true!.. itachi would even get close to pain with out eating a shinra tensei.

 

[Inception]

and also wrong, just because jman can beat him doesnt mean itachi can..

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oh my god!!!!! did you see how fast they were resummoned and close too jman!!! literaly it was seconds after killing them other pains, and obviouly he was close in the area. so that whole "they were still in there pods" is null and void! and he was still in sage mode! and let me remind you jman never faught god pain the main one, so if pain wasnt playing with him that battle would of been over b4 he turned into sagemode and that is true!.. itachi would even get close to pain with out eating a shinra tensei.

Pain himself stated that if Jiraiya knew his secret, he would not have won.

We know of nothing that can defeat Yata's Mirror as of yet. Pain can outlast Itachi but cannot defeat him with Yata's Mirror up. They're equally matched both with perfect defenses and offenses. Pain has the upper hand because he doesn't tire as quick as Itachi does.

Pain would win vs. Itachi by outlasting him.

 

[Draegod]

Pain himself stated that if Jiraiya knew his secret, he would not have won.

We know of nothing that can defeat Yata's Mirror as of yet. Pain can outlast Itachi but cannot defeat him with Yata's Mirror up. They're equally matched both with perfect defenses and offenses. Pain has the upper hand because he doesn't tire as quick as Itachi does.

Pain would win vs. Itachi by outlasting him.

i agree, if susano'o wouldnt have side efts and could last then i would give it to my boi itachi. but if nagato wants to then he could chibaku tensei and keep itachi in his susano'o traped under all that pressure then that mirror and sword would be useless if you cant move. and when it runs out then ur as good as dead.lol

 

[kisamexRocks]

I don't think the pain's were summoned right away. We don't know the total distance Jiraiya walked before the others were revived. Plus, Nagato could have sent the other bodies after Jiraiya just a few moments before the 3 were caught in the Jutsu. Then 1 attacked Jiraiya, and the rest could be reviving the dead bodies(no pun).

Well the Mirror and the Sword together make Susanoo invincible. I don't think if Nagato used Chibaku Tensei it would do much except push itachi back or something, it depends on how long nagato can use the technique and at what magnitude he uses it, I'll admit Pain has some crazy chakra and an insane ability to outlast others.

But if Itachi was't already dieing of disease and going blind, we would have a close and intense battle, but if it were all fair fight and nothing wrong with itachi or Nagato. Then we would have a hard judgement to make out, and not any of those fan boy things lol.

 

[Draegod]

I don't think the pain's were summoned right away. We don't know the total distance Jiraiya walked before the others were revived. Plus, Nagato could have sent the other bodies after Jiraiya just a few moments before the 3 were caught in the Jutsu. Then 1 attacked Jiraiya, and the rest could be reviving the dead bodies(no pun).

Well the Mirror and the Sword together make Susanoo invincible. I don't think if Nagato used Chibaku Tensei it would do much except push itachi back or something, it depends on how long nagato can use the technique and at what magnitude he uses it, I'll admit Pain has some crazy chakra and an insane ability to outlast others.

But if Itachi was't already dieing of disease and going blind, we would have a close and intense battle, but if it were all fair fight and nothing wrong with itachi or Nagato. Then we would have a hard judgement to make out, and not any of those fan boy things lol.

nope, they were summoned b4 the genjutsu tech,

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pa said it, and yet the other ones were not eft'd. and he revived all three of em in less thn a minnute. but i agree the susano's is a problem, but chubaku tensei is the planet jutsu not the almight push move. and it would incase the whole susano'o weapons and all,

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. the shield only cant stop chibaku tensei, but chibaku cant stop the sheild either, so it all comes down to who can last the longest and thats were pain wins.

 

[ReLax -]

nope, they were summoned b4 the genjutsu tech,

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pa said it, and yet the other ones were not eft'd. and he revived all three of em in less thn a minnute. but i agree the susano's is a problem, but chubaku tensei is the planet jutsu not the almight push move. and it would incase the whole susano'o weapons and all,

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. the shield only cant stop chibaku tensei, but chibaku cant stop the sheild either, so it all comes down to who can last the longest and thats were pain wins.

By the way Pa just guessed he summoned them before the genjutsu, it's not a 100% true since Pein didn't state it himself

 

[Dornier]

itachi will win...he can use tsukiyomi...also if he dnt have sage mode nd rinnegan at his arsenal.. he has the legendary sword of sealin..that traps any one it pierces in all eternity genjutsu..so for sure itachi..he can just pierce through one path by onether..while his yata mirror will protect him being attacked...

 

[Professor Sarutobi]

if NVG's idea of the shared vision letting them be affected by tsukiyomi worked, it'd be over fast for pain but assuming it doesn't it'd be a massive battle probably ending in a sussano vs. chibaku tensei tug of war, can his "perfect sussano" break out of something the size of a small (or full sized depending on how much chakra he used) moon, would his sword be fast enough to seal all the path bodies or would pain wear him out untill his MS is used up, the useual limit appears to be 3 MS jutsu a fight (itachi used 2 tsukiyomi and 1 amatsaru when he first showed up in the leaf, sasuke i think used 1 or 2 genjutsu and 2 amatsaru fighting danzo.)

personally i think pain even tho they are both unstopable 1v1 itachi being a genjutsu specialist is better in actual one on ones, and this is 6 bodies with perfect teamwork on one.

 

[leafeater]

Well that is the disadvantage of shared vision. The only reason the other 3 were not effected was because they were in those pods and weren't active. Possibly the reason Nagato was effected was because he was too far away from the Genjutsu's effect. Possibly if he was closer or in the range he might be affected by the Genjutsu.

But if Jiraiya can defeat pain, so can itachi. Just remember that Jiraiya's only disadvantage was not knowing the truth behind Pain. If itachi knows the truth it will be easier for him aswell.

Yeah, but it works both ways too. The advantage is that the bodies directly confronting Itachi can close their eyes while the others not directly confronting Itachi provide a view so they can fight via shared vision without facing the MS Tsukiyomi or other genjutsu.

Also, the whole sword the Totsuka seems weird in this fight to me. It seals whatever it pierces in eternal genjutsu, but all the bodies are dead, so I guess it would just seal the body.

Regarding the Yata mirror, I presume that like anything it has its limits, but they are extremely high to stop Kirin.

In the end, I agree that it comes down to Chibaku Tensei over Susanoo, but I'm not sure, they're both ridiculously strong that it be a Nagato/Itachi wins 7/10 times rather than every fight having the same victor each time.