[Discussion] Pain and Itachi
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Rambo200
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eliteplague
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Itachi of course, he is a person who became an ANBU captain at only age 13. And you have to remember Itachi's talent is natural. Pain on the other hand was giving the rinnegan by Madara. You can't under estimate a genius like Itachi, he will easily figure out that the bodies of Pain are not the real ones.
rockerstud
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The main reason Jiraiya found this out was because he encountered each of the 6 paths of Pain in his travels as well as having taught Nagato and Yahiko. That knowledge was critical, knowledge Itachi wouldn't have.
that doesn't apply for naturobase I think. The threads here, hopefully each generation surpasses the previous one.
...the newbies want to come up with something new which is almost impossible 'cause almost all combinations of fights were posted already 
NarutoVsGoku
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yes the sound is different im glad we both agree
but like i said all the Pains see what each other see.. thats different than 2 ppl seeing something at the same time.. the Pains all share each others vision because Nagato using his chakra rods is able to channel his Rinnegan and jutsus to the other Pain bodies
so if one Pain body sees the sharingan or finger than Nagato sees it and Nagato is under genjutsu and since all the other Pains see what Nagato sees they all too are under the genjutsu..
the manga does back this up... and it makes sense!
How come so many people look at Mangkeyou Sharingan as the strongest thing in the show??? It's not! Jiraiya(a.k.a. Kishimoto) has already CLEARLY stated that Rinnegan is better and stronger than Byakugan and Sharingan as a whole. Although Zetsu says "the weapon is only as good as its user"(something around those lines) this is true. Itachi was great with his MS but Nagato was fantastic with his Rinnegan. The idea of splitting the Rinnegan power into 6 different bodies was genius in my opinion.
If Itachi fights all 6 bodies at once, I'm sorry but he's not going to last very long at all. 2 Minutes tops.
If Itachi fights all 6 bodies at once, I'm sorry but he's not going to last very long at all. 2 Minutes tops.
NarutoVsGoku
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lord niijima
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gotta agree with that too. it will be a tough match but i do think that pain is going to win. but it's not going to be easy for him.
Whiteknight
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This question has come up a lot, but I love answering it. This one is hard to answer. I think Pain wins, but it would be a hell of a battle.
First, we know that Pain is susceptible to Genjutsu, and Itachi is the master of that. But, the 6 paths share a field of vision, and 5 would be able to attack while one was trapped in the Genjutsu.
The big problem here is that Itachi's trump card, his MS, is limited. MS techniques use a lot of chakra and they make him go blind. If Itachi had EMS, that would be a different story entirely, but that would come with new powers and new chakra levels too, not just protection from blindness.
Pain, on the other hand, can outlast him by resurrecting bodies over and over again. I don't know if Itachi knew Pain's secret. If not, it would have taken him a few attempts before he learned that secret. For the sake of argument, we can suggest that Itachi knew about all of Pain's techniques and his secrets.
Pain has 6 paths. The summoner can summon several large monsters that would be a big pain to fight. Itachi would probably be smart and try to avoid them instead of fighting them the way Naruto did. There is another one who can absorb chakra. This will probably work on fireball release techniques, but I don't know if it will work on Amaterasu or Susanoo.
In the end it's a numbers game. Itachi has a lot of skills, but Pain has a team of 6 powerful ninjas with an almost limitless chakra reserve. I think that Itachi can take down 4 or 5 paths, but he'll run out of chakra long before Pain does.
Look at Itachi's last battle against Sasuke: He uses Tsukuyomi on Sasuke (which Sasuke overpowers), he throws a bunch of shurikens, uses a grand fireball (which Sasuke overpowers), then uses Amaterasu and finally Susanoo before dieing from chakra exhaustion. When he's healthy and trying to win maybe he can double or even triple that output, but that's still not a hell of a lot compared to what Pain can do.
In comparison, look at Pain's last battle. He single-handedly fights off the entire leaf village (including killing Kakashi and seriously wounding several other powerful Jonin), he summoned several large monsters (and we know the size of the summon is proportional to the amount of chakra expended), he destroyed the entire village, summoned two other monsters, fought Naruto who had both sage mode and the Fox until Naruto had run out of sage chakra, used a huge Chibaku Tensei that was large enough to contain Naruto in 8-tailed mode, and still had enough chakra to fight. In the end, he only lost because of a timing error.
I hate to say it, because I like Itachi more than Nagato, but I can't believe that he could win. Itachi and Kisame on a team is a different story, but one on one, Itachi can't win.
chickmagnet
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hehe ima have 2 agree with you and plus imma state it again both were very sick men they both were very close 2 dying but nagoto looks hella worst tho
and one more thing im more or itachi fan than a pain fan but im only giving my output of wat i have seen
and about those summons they probably would've helped pain destroy naruto if he didn't have all those toads to help him lets not forget that
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PositiveEmotions
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First of all I should say that this fight could go either way. Why? Because it's not a simple rinnegan vs sharingan fight. It's a skill fight. People are saying that rinnegan si better than sharingan. Yes it is. But both of them know how to take advantage of their eyes.
1. you're saying that they all share the same field of vision and then you say that 5 of them can attack while one is under genjutsu. Wrong for 2 reasons: Itachi's genjutsu si less than 1s long and if they share the same vision, they're linked as 1 person, hence they are all trapped inside the genjutsu.
2.No Itachi would not go blind in just one battle from spamming MS. Look at sasuke
3.About itachi vs sasuke. The OP clearly said that it's itachi at full health. Itachi vs Sasuke IS NOT Itachi at full health. It was probably the weakest version of itachi we got to see. So in full health and fighting seriously, Itachi would have owned sasuke.
The winner? Most likely the one who will make the first mistake. Let's not forget that each of them have weaknesses. Itachi for example has to capture just one of the 6 pains in genjutsu and it is all over and has the yamata mirror and totsuga blade on his susano'o, both of which pain can't do nothing about. On the other hand Pain can time his attacks much better because he is like a team of 6. Also if they catch itachi without the susano'o it is all over.
Whiteknight
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I didn't say it would be a battle of eyes. I said it would be a battle of numbers. Pain has more bodies. Those bodies fight at a high level (Tendo defeated several ninjas at once, including Kakashi. The summoner can summon multiple huge monster animals, etc), and they have huge chakra reserves. Pain has more chakra than Itachi by a large amount. There's no argument on this point.
1. Wrong. In the fight with Jiraya against Pain, they used Genjutsu against one of the Pain bodies, and the others continued to attack. Even if It only takes Itachi 1 second to immobilize one of the bodies, that's 6 seconds he would have to burn to trap all of them. Also, that's only if they make eye-contact. If Pain uses his shared field of vision to attack without making eye contact with Itachi, this strategy is useless.
2. Sasuke went blind in 3 battles, but Itachi has had his MS for over 10 years and had used it enough to know many of the secrets of it. We know Itachi used it in the Uchiha Massacre. He probably used it before that to practice for the massacre too. I'm sure he's used it as part of his Akatsuki work, all the Akatsuki members seemed to be aware of his abilities. In the fight against Sasuke we see that he is already half blind because of this. There's no way Itachi can win without using his MS techniques frequently. He has to overcome 6 opponents (including a number of summoned monsters, and the ability of Pain to revive his bodies under certain conditions) and Pain's huge chakra reserves. Without using Susanoo and Amaterasu he stands no chance, but if he uses them too much he goes blind and still uses. It's too much of a balancing game.
3. How much stronger is Itachi at full strength than he was in the battle against Sasuke? 2 times stronger? 3 times? 4 times? In the battle with Sasuke we saw Itachi use a Tsukuyomi (which Sasuke overcame), some taijutsu, a grand fireball, 2 amaterasu, and finally a Susanoo for about 30 seconds with the very last of his chakra. Let's be generous and say at full power Itachi is 5x stronger than he was in the battle with Sasuke. That means he has 5 Tsukuyomi, 5 grand fireballs, 10 amaterasus and about 2.5 minutes of using a full Susanoo (We can even round that up to 3 minutes to be even more generous). Is that enough to take out 6 paths of pain, including all the powers that Pain has?
Can the Preta Path absorb chakra from Amaterasu or Susanoo? We saw him absorb chakra from Naruto through contact, so he could maybe do the same if he touched Susanoo. Can the Deva Path use his almighty push and almighty pull techniques to deflect the flames of Amaterasu? Does he have the power to push or pull Susanoo?
Would Susanoo's genjutsu sword be able to permanently seal away the bodies of Pain? And if so, can the Outer Path revive a body that has been "killed" by Susanoo's sword?
There are a lot of questions to be answered, some of which might sway the battle one way or the other. However, barring some weird ability mismatch that we aren't aware of, I see this as a basic numbers comparison, and Pain wins on the numbers alone.
the outer path can't revive bodies that are completely gone. He took in the destroyed body into the mouth and the same body came out after revived.
The sword seals on contact, seals the body and the soul. Since the bodies don't have soul, I'm guessing it would just seal the body.
Pain can win if he outlasts Itachi which he probably can as he's always fighting with dead bodies. The real one is never in any danger.
The sword seals on contact, seals the body and the soul. Since the bodies don't have soul, I'm guessing it would just seal the body.
Pain can win if he outlasts Itachi which he probably can as he's always fighting with dead bodies. The real one is never in any danger.
1. Jirayia and the frogs used a sound genjutsu. We're still not certain how an ocular genjutsu would affect the pains and it's up to speculation.
2. Ok first of all I did not say that Itachi should use MS. All I said was that he can not go blind from just one battle. Let's be serious now. He'll lose his chakra faster than he will go blind.
3. Now for this point you've got a lot of things wrong. First of all sasuke broke the tsukyomi because Itachi wanted him to break it, not because Itachi tried his hardest to keep his little brother inside a genjutsu forever and sasuke was so strong that he got out. And also, if he used let's say 2 fireballs in a battle vs sasuke, doesn't mean that Itachi being twice as strong means using 4 fireballs. That's laughable... honestly. Itachi being stronger means having stronger fireballs. And why list his techniques when fighting against Sasuke? Is there a point to it? Is he only allowed to use that specific number? This is not an argument anymore. Please rethink this point.
Let me answer a few of your questions you listed.
If any Pain touches susano'o's sword, they get sealed. It's just the way it works.
It is likely that Pain can push/pull Amaterasu, but no chance of doing that with Susano'o, seeing how it's defense is really ultimate.
Yes, Susano'o sword will permanently seal pain's bodies. And it is unlikely that Pain can revive anything back or that he will even have time to do it.
In conclusion I would say nice debate and I think we both have to agree that there is no clear winner in this battle. It can go to anyone. We can leave it like that.
~Hebi Terumi~
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Im gonna have to say its a tie why
1: Itachi and Nagato are very skilled with their dojutsu so this isnt going to be a fanboy or the rinnegan is stronger than the sharingan moment.
2. Let's say Itachi traps the 6 paths of pain in a genjutsu all nagato has to do is try to intercept this by having some of the paths close their eyes while a few others lets say in this example the human naraka and asura path get caught so basically they're out.
3. Itachi does katon goukakyuu no jutsu (fireball jutsu) but may not have time to due to the animals the animal path will have most likely summoned which basically keeps itachi on the defensive awhile.
4. Eventually Itachi will dispatch of the summons by while he was distracted the preta path sneaks up behind him to sap all his chakra but it turns out to be a kage bunshin. Itachi tries to take out this path but since tendo pain (deva path) is facing in his direction the preta path intercepts the hit causing the animal path to engage in more summons.
5. Itachi activates MS and uses amaratesu and sets ablaze the animal path. The preta path tries to absorb amaratesu but fails and the flames envelop his body. Itachi then faces towards tendo pain but before he can do anything he uses shinra tensei to send him flying a couple of yards.
6. With Nagato using the deva path solo he can focus more on one single path making the battle more intense for Itachi and thus provokes him into using sussan'o. The Deva Path then uses chibaku tensei to attract the surrounding landscape into a single point and sussano's weapons are pulled into the air.
- So basically in the end itachi is robbed off his weapons (even though it may not be possible this is just a scenario i created just to see how the battle can come out) and nagato has expelled a good amount of chakra as well as itachi. Though itachi can use amaratesu or pain can use bansho tenin and stab him up close i leave that up to you but either way it seems like it will end in a draw imo
1: Itachi and Nagato are very skilled with their dojutsu so this isnt going to be a fanboy or the rinnegan is stronger than the sharingan moment.
2. Let's say Itachi traps the 6 paths of pain in a genjutsu all nagato has to do is try to intercept this by having some of the paths close their eyes while a few others lets say in this example the human naraka and asura path get caught so basically they're out.
3. Itachi does katon goukakyuu no jutsu (fireball jutsu) but may not have time to due to the animals the animal path will have most likely summoned which basically keeps itachi on the defensive awhile.
4. Eventually Itachi will dispatch of the summons by while he was distracted the preta path sneaks up behind him to sap all his chakra but it turns out to be a kage bunshin. Itachi tries to take out this path but since tendo pain (deva path) is facing in his direction the preta path intercepts the hit causing the animal path to engage in more summons.
5. Itachi activates MS and uses amaratesu and sets ablaze the animal path. The preta path tries to absorb amaratesu but fails and the flames envelop his body. Itachi then faces towards tendo pain but before he can do anything he uses shinra tensei to send him flying a couple of yards.
6. With Nagato using the deva path solo he can focus more on one single path making the battle more intense for Itachi and thus provokes him into using sussan'o. The Deva Path then uses chibaku tensei to attract the surrounding landscape into a single point and sussano's weapons are pulled into the air.
- So basically in the end itachi is robbed off his weapons (even though it may not be possible this is just a scenario i created just to see how the battle can come out) and nagato has expelled a good amount of chakra as well as itachi. Though itachi can use amaratesu or pain can use bansho tenin and stab him up close i leave that up to you but either way it seems like it will end in a draw imo
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