[Predictions] Naruto Manga Chapter 516 Discussion and 517 Predictions
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Alkad, I think some of your points are a little unfounded. I really think points 1 and 2 have no backing to be argued. As I have said before, I think there is no correlation between the stumps and the tails, I think they are two separate entities and the tails will form once the Juubi's full chakra is restored. As for the arms and legs, I see no difference in their girth, I really think you are trying to look to deeply here.I've already givenYou must be registered for see linkswhy that shouldn't be the case.
1. the tails of the jubi start out as thin, and then thicken. It's the exact opposite with the stumps on the gedo mazo, if they are what remained of the jubi's tails.
2. the silhouettes: jubi is thin, has thin arms and thin legs. Why would the jubi get fatter after it's been drained of all the energy and stored in the moon? Also, Gedo mazo has all those stubs that... just look at them
3. gedo mazo has 9 eyes, we've been arguing about this so it doesn't matter
4. Why would gedo mazo be handcuffed (& fettered)? so that it wouldn't run away? I think the jubi's body is meant to be lifeless.
5. Would gedo mazo be called a statue if it were a previous living being?
Another one:
gedo mazo came from underground. The jubi would come from the moon, skies etc. or just appear on the surface of the earth. Unless nagato had summoned the jubi before, but he wouldn't. He was a peaceful fellow back then. Why would he need the jubi?
In regard to points 4 and 5, I think they have a lot to do with a point I made earlier:
I really think that the Gedo Mazo was made my Madara. You said it yourself in a previous post, you think there is no way Nagato could have summoned it from the moon. For that reason, you said that Madara would have to have made it from scratch. I think that is indeed the case; maybe it was made from wood element from the 1st's DNA he has growing inside his base. I also really think he made it in the likeness of the Juubi and thats why we see the similarities. That would explain why its called a statue, because it was made from wood element.
As for his bound arms/ lifelessness, I really think that is a result of Madara learning to better control it. I mentioned in a previous post that maybe Madara was able to let Nagato summon it by 'syncing' it to him. Following that idea, maybe Madara had little control over it when Nagato first summoned it. Perhaps there was some left over chakra in it or something from its creation that gave it a so called life-force. Perhaps now, since he needed it to seal biju, Madara has completely drained it of all excess chakra and it is now motionless/ lifeless.
And of course he is sitting the way he is bound and everything. That is exactly the way we are used to seeing it when they sealed the biju, we simply only saw a small portion of it in the hideouts. To fit it in the smaller spaces, it would be summoned mostly underground and the essential parts for sealing biju would extrude out.
Again, I agreed with you earlier that it is not likely the Juubi's original body but it was in fact made by Madara.
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Chief Toad
Active member
It's just my opinion Drizzy, but I don't feel that he'll actually be able to bring any of them all the way back to life, but I do totally agree with you that his new found power will have some kind of effects on all of the shinobi's resurected. Whether its giving them more control over their own body and minds when he's touching them or near by or what... I don't know. I do feel that when it's all said and done, and the technique is finally released, they all will disipate/melt/thurn into ashes like when the 1st and 2nd fought the 3rd.
On Naruto's cloak, again it's just my opinion, now that Kabuto pumped up the Zetsu's with Yamato's chakra/DNA, & yes, I know that they were all created with the help of the 1st's DNA, I totally agree that something interesting is going to happen. I sure hope it doesn't make them even stronger because they were visibly stronger before they left the hideout and it's currently not looking good for the Alliance. What if he can pump a ton of his light-force energy into them and turn them into a forest of trees kind of like when made Yamato's wood nature start reacting & when he turned one of the Pain's into stone with his sage/nature chakra?
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My turn! My turn!
Here is some stuff I put together.
I wanted to do more, but just this research and posting took me hours.
I gotta get some sleep...more later.
Madara's Powers:
- Time Space Ninjutsu
- Sharingan
- Rinnengan
- Izanagi
1.) He can make himself invulnerable to any form of attack.
a.) He evades Raikage's Punch
b.) Naruto tries to blast him, and goes right through him instead.
c.) Here Sasuke cuts him in half, and he gets up, apparently unhurt.
d.) Here Kakashi is going to use MS against Madara, and Madara tells him not to waste his energy, because it will have no effect.
e.) Here he is escaping Shino's bugs and completely blowing the minds of the Konoha peeps.
f.) Here is is nuked by Ameratsu and then seems fine a few pages later.
g.) Here he dodges some attacks from Danzo's bodyguards.
2.) He can warp himself and or others to a location of his choice with our without their permission.
a.) During the Kage Summit, he saves Sasuke from Tsuchikage's Dust Tech.
And warps Karin to him, to heal him, while he talks to the 5 Kages.
b.) He warps to Sasuke's aid when Zetsu warns him about Sasuke being in trouble.
c.) He tries to warp the 4th Hokage, but Minato is too fast and escapes.
d.) He warps himself and Konan away, along with a nice portion of the suicide bombs she was carrying with her.
e.) Here he shows up at the end of the Itachi-Sasuke fight, and Zetsu accuses Madara of traveling at the speed of light.
f.) One of Danzo's henchmen down.
The other quickly follows.
I'd like to note that you never see them again... LOL.
Where did he take them? I think I know. We'll save that for later.
3.) He has the power of the Sharingan and we know that he dominated the Kyuubi for a short period of time.
a.) Here we see Madara summon the fox into Konoha after releasing it from Kushina's control.
b.) Here we see the power of the sharingan eye wear off the Kyuubi after Minato owns Madara.
c.) Here Kabuto and Madara agree to use the Sharingan instead of the Rinnengan to get the answers they need from Yamato.
d.) Here we see him viewing one of Danzo's henchmen with his Sharingan.
4.) He now has the Rinnengan and all powers that come with it.
At least to some extent. All that is confirmed FOR SURE is the human realm. But I think its safe to assume he can do any of the realms.
5.) Izanagi. By combining the powers of the senju and uchiha, Madara can transform his illusion into reality.
MADARA'S PLAN
1.) The Moon's Eye Plan. (The Infinite Tsukuyomi)
He has come right out and told the five kage's that this is his plan.
I do not doubt that he is telling the truth. He would gain nothing from lying to them. Not only that, but it seems to fit in with what we have learned. Tsuchikage asks him why he doesn't just use his own powers to achieve his goals, why employ Sasuke? He admits that he has no power himself, but that he has the Bijuu's he has collected, and will use them forcefully if necessary.
"I'm not a fool to say a thing like this in jest!"
Proof that he is telling the truth while speaking to them.
He admits to the Raikage that Akatsuki failed to capture the Hachibi.
Madara also states here that Bee has achieved true perfection as a Jinchuuriki. This is interesting because we see that Naruto has gained a level of power that not even Bee has, which I will get to later.
2.) Becoming the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi.
Here Madara explains that he will combine all the Bijuus and restore the Juubi and then become its host so that he may implement the Moon's Eye Plan, and control the world.
We learn from Madara that the Rikudou Sage fought the Juubi, and defeated it using a sealing technique that he invented to become the Juubi's Host and the very first Jinchuuriki. He goes on to add that all the tailed bijuus are nothing more than pieces of the Juubi that were split apart at the Rikudou Sage's will upon his death. At the same time, once the chakra was seperated from it's body the Juubi's body was contained/became the moon so that it was too far from it's chakra's(bijuus) to be revived. "The fused form of all the Bijuu"
Here he explains to Konan as she is dying that with Yin-Yang element, the Rikudou Sage created the beasts from the Juubi, which matches what he told the Kages.
He obviously intends to use the Heretical Demon Statue (Gedo Mazo) to do this. Akatsuki has been transferring the bijuus into the Gedo Mazo which may or may not be a shell/form of the Juubi itself. It has many similarities and seems to be a fitting container for the bijuus.
3.) Heretical Demon Statue (GEDO MAZO)
There is no doubt that the Heretical Demon Statue is the Gedo Mazo summon that Nagato summoned during his fight against Hanzo, when Yahiko dies.
Here are some images to reference:
You'll notice the rods coming from its stomach. It is what pierced Nagato when he summoned it. It is also what seems to lead down into Madara's lair to where the Zetsu's were being kept. Hashirama's DNA and now Yamato have both been fused in with the Demon Statue.
Gedo might mean "being outside of and controlling Life and Death".
Mazo might mean "a combining form"
Nagato was Gedo, the 7th Pain according to Konan.
From this I assume that Gedo Mazo is a "living-dead" "form" of the Juubi used to "combine" all of the Bijuu and restore the Juubi to it's original form.
It seems he fully plans on doing exactly like he said.
Now all he has to do it defeat Bee and Naruto.
I'll try to post on what I think will happen in regards to that part, tomorrow. Man, I sure am excited for this week's chapter.
A couple things I ran into while researching....
Kankuro uses his jutsu to remove the Zetsu's from some of the ninja there at the Kage summit. VERY INTERESTING!
I posted on Tobi being Madara a while back and made some good references. I thought this was another good page to that effect.
Here is another for all you "Tobi isn't Madara" peeps out there.
Here is some stuff I put together.
I wanted to do more, but just this research and posting took me hours.
I gotta get some sleep...more later.
Madara's Powers:
- Time Space Ninjutsu
- Sharingan
- Rinnengan
- Izanagi
1.) He can make himself invulnerable to any form of attack.
a.) He evades Raikage's Punch
You must be registered for see links
b.) Naruto tries to blast him, and goes right through him instead.
You must be registered for see links
c.) Here Sasuke cuts him in half, and he gets up, apparently unhurt.
You must be registered for see links
d.) Here Kakashi is going to use MS against Madara, and Madara tells him not to waste his energy, because it will have no effect.
You must be registered for see links
e.) Here he is escaping Shino's bugs and completely blowing the minds of the Konoha peeps.
You must be registered for see links
f.) Here is is nuked by Ameratsu and then seems fine a few pages later.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
g.) Here he dodges some attacks from Danzo's bodyguards.
You must be registered for see links
2.) He can warp himself and or others to a location of his choice with our without their permission.
a.) During the Kage Summit, he saves Sasuke from Tsuchikage's Dust Tech.
And warps Karin to him, to heal him, while he talks to the 5 Kages.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
b.) He warps to Sasuke's aid when Zetsu warns him about Sasuke being in trouble.
You must be registered for see links
c.) He tries to warp the 4th Hokage, but Minato is too fast and escapes.
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d.) He warps himself and Konan away, along with a nice portion of the suicide bombs she was carrying with her.
You must be registered for see links
e.) Here he shows up at the end of the Itachi-Sasuke fight, and Zetsu accuses Madara of traveling at the speed of light.
You must be registered for see links
f.) One of Danzo's henchmen down.
You must be registered for see links
The other quickly follows.
You must be registered for see links
I'd like to note that you never see them again... LOL.
Where did he take them? I think I know. We'll save that for later.
3.) He has the power of the Sharingan and we know that he dominated the Kyuubi for a short period of time.
a.) Here we see Madara summon the fox into Konoha after releasing it from Kushina's control.
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You must be registered for see links
b.) Here we see the power of the sharingan eye wear off the Kyuubi after Minato owns Madara.
You must be registered for see links
c.) Here Kabuto and Madara agree to use the Sharingan instead of the Rinnengan to get the answers they need from Yamato.
You must be registered for see links
d.) Here we see him viewing one of Danzo's henchmen with his Sharingan.
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4.) He now has the Rinnengan and all powers that come with it.
At least to some extent. All that is confirmed FOR SURE is the human realm. But I think its safe to assume he can do any of the realms.
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(human realm)
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(animal realm)
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(gedo realm)
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(god realm)
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(hungry ghost realm)
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(demon realm)
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(hell realm)5.) Izanagi. By combining the powers of the senju and uchiha, Madara can transform his illusion into reality.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
MADARA'S PLAN
1.) The Moon's Eye Plan. (The Infinite Tsukuyomi)
You must be registered for see links
He has come right out and told the five kage's that this is his plan.
I do not doubt that he is telling the truth. He would gain nothing from lying to them. Not only that, but it seems to fit in with what we have learned. Tsuchikage asks him why he doesn't just use his own powers to achieve his goals, why employ Sasuke? He admits that he has no power himself, but that he has the Bijuu's he has collected, and will use them forcefully if necessary.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
"I'm not a fool to say a thing like this in jest!"
You must be registered for see links
Proof that he is telling the truth while speaking to them.
He admits to the Raikage that Akatsuki failed to capture the Hachibi.
You must be registered for see links
Madara also states here that Bee has achieved true perfection as a Jinchuuriki. This is interesting because we see that Naruto has gained a level of power that not even Bee has, which I will get to later.
2.) Becoming the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi.
You must be registered for see links
Here Madara explains that he will combine all the Bijuus and restore the Juubi and then become its host so that he may implement the Moon's Eye Plan, and control the world.
We learn from Madara that the Rikudou Sage fought the Juubi, and defeated it using a sealing technique that he invented to become the Juubi's Host and the very first Jinchuuriki. He goes on to add that all the tailed bijuus are nothing more than pieces of the Juubi that were split apart at the Rikudou Sage's will upon his death. At the same time, once the chakra was seperated from it's body the Juubi's body was contained/became the moon so that it was too far from it's chakra's(bijuus) to be revived. "The fused form of all the Bijuu"
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
Here he explains to Konan as she is dying that with Yin-Yang element, the Rikudou Sage created the beasts from the Juubi, which matches what he told the Kages.
You must be registered for see links
He obviously intends to use the Heretical Demon Statue (Gedo Mazo) to do this. Akatsuki has been transferring the bijuus into the Gedo Mazo which may or may not be a shell/form of the Juubi itself. It has many similarities and seems to be a fitting container for the bijuus.
3.) Heretical Demon Statue (GEDO MAZO)
There is no doubt that the Heretical Demon Statue is the Gedo Mazo summon that Nagato summoned during his fight against Hanzo, when Yahiko dies.
Here are some images to reference:
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You'll notice the rods coming from its stomach. It is what pierced Nagato when he summoned it. It is also what seems to lead down into Madara's lair to where the Zetsu's were being kept. Hashirama's DNA and now Yamato have both been fused in with the Demon Statue.
Gedo might mean "being outside of and controlling Life and Death".
Mazo might mean "a combining form"
Nagato was Gedo, the 7th Pain according to Konan.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
From this I assume that Gedo Mazo is a "living-dead" "form" of the Juubi used to "combine" all of the Bijuu and restore the Juubi to it's original form.
It seems he fully plans on doing exactly like he said.
Now all he has to do it defeat Bee and Naruto.
I'll try to post on what I think will happen in regards to that part, tomorrow. Man, I sure am excited for this week's chapter.
A couple things I ran into while researching....
Kankuro uses his jutsu to remove the Zetsu's from some of the ninja there at the Kage summit. VERY INTERESTING!
You must be registered for see links
I posted on Tobi being Madara a while back and made some good references. I thought this was another good page to that effect.
You must be registered for see links
Here is another for all you "Tobi isn't Madara" peeps out there.
You must be registered for see links
Those counterarguments were founded on the arguments for the jubi=gedo mazo theory. I know those stumps have no relation to the tails of the jubi, but if they were the same being and those stumps aren't on the jubi (point 2), they had to be tails. and tails don't just vanish, I reasoned that before the section you quoted. Hopes it makes what I was getting at clearer. if it matters
I didn't say that madara created gedo mazo. I said that if he needed a container for the biju chakra, he'd need to make it himself. I was thinking about the jubi's body. So far, we can't know if/what container would be suitable. Might be gedo mazo itself, but as far as I know, it was born with a different purpose. I trust nagato more than madara.
jspencer43
Member
pretty sure Tsunade is going to die soon, think about it. Narutos master jariya is dead, sauske's master is dead. Tsunade will die during the war and naruto will end up the hero of the war and be named the new hokage, or maybe more he may be the one to end all conflict and unite the world where gara in this chapter started. But after this war I think naruto mite finally come to an end :S
OopsWrongHole
Active member
I know you hate small posts but seriously that was the most interesting post I think you have ever made and it is very clear you spent some time getting this all together.
I look forward to hear more of what you have to say.
It truly was outstanding to be honest, Honestly... are you Kishi secret son? =D
The stumps are on the Juubi, maybe their ends are sharp and they are a little longer, but they seem to be there and in the same positions as on Gedo Mazo.Those counterarguments were founded on the arguments for the jubi=gedo mazo theory. I know those stumps have no relation to the tails of the jubi, but if they were the same being and those stumps aren't on the jubi (point 2), they had to be tails. and tails don't just vanish, I reasoned that before the section you quoted. Hopes it makes what I was getting at clearer. if it matters
I didn't say that madara created gedo mazo. I said that if he needed a container for the biju chakra, he'd need to make it himself. I was thinking about the jubi's body. So far, we can't know if/what container would be suitable. Might be gedo mazo itself, but as far as I know, it was born with a different purpose. I trust nagato more than madara.
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the jubi probably has 5 of those. Gedo Mazo's stumps are all over its body
I included my previous post. Look mostly at the first two images. I hope you won't say that they are physically the same bodies, as represented in the two pictures. If they represented the same object, you wouldn't find such major differences in their form, no matter how you'd look at them. Just tell me what you think about these two pictures. I'm pretty convinced about what I just said.
My conclusion: jubi is shown to have max ~5 growths on its body. Gedo mazo has at least 3x as many.
1. It startedYou must be registered for see linksbefore nagato was connected
2. The kyubiYou must be registered for see links
3. it obviously hasn't been shown/suggested in the manga. If it is true, then there should be clear explanation in the future. Most of us aren't happy with the idea.
It's just like the case of Tobi before he said that he was Madara, except that I think it's false. You need proof that gedo mazo = jubi, not the other way around.
I've already givenYou must be registered for see linkswhy that shouldn't be the case.
More reasons:
Their shapes: if you look closely enough, you'll see major differences:
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1. the tails of the jubi start out as thin, and then thicken. It's the exact opposite with the stumps on the gedo mazo, if they are what remained of the jubi's tails.
2. the silhouettes: jubi is thin, has thin arms and thin legs. Why would the jubi get fatter after it's been drained of all the energy and stored in the moon? Also, Gedo mazo has all those stubs that... just look at them
3. gedo mazo has 9 eyes, we've been arguing about this so it doesn't matter
4. Why would gedo mazo be handcuffed (& fettered)? so that it wouldn't run away? I think the jubi's body is meant to be lifeless.
5. Would gedo mazo be called a statue if it were a previous living being?
Another one:
gedo mazo came from underground. The jubi would come from the moon, skies etc. or just appear on the surface of the earth. Unless nagato had summoned the jubi before, but he wouldn't. He was a peaceful fellow back then. Why would he need the jubi?
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Oh, and the image you've shown is incorrect. This is what I've found:
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You must be registered for see images
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YAY FOR GAARA! i'm so glad that kishi decided to bring him back into focus so he'd better not kill off gaara!! D:
can't wait to watch gaara's speech in animation!
i have a feeling that those dead people being summoned might try to break free of kabuto's hold! or at least give him a hard time to control them.
i think that naruto has mastered everything he has to master and what bee was talking about is to watch everyone he loves fight and (possibly) die from protecting him.
"now its time for the final part.. it's gonna be sad, you're gonna feel helpless, but don't get mad, cos its time to start!"
can't wait for the next chapter!!
so he'd better not kill off gaara!! D:can't wait to watch gaara's speech in animation!
i have a feeling that those dead people being summoned might try to break free of kabuto's hold! or at least give him a hard time to control them.
i think that naruto has mastered everything he has to master and what bee was talking about is to watch everyone he loves fight and (possibly) die from protecting him.
"now its time for the final part.. it's gonna be sad, you're gonna feel helpless, but don't get mad, cos its time to start!"
can't wait for the next chapter!!
Both our images are directly from the manga. Only my image is a little lighter and that allows me to count the formations on the Juubi's back. I got 8 with one probably blocked by its arm at its left side. The Gedo Mazo's proportions are basically the same as the Juubi's, even the arm and leg width and length seems identical.the jubi probably has 5 of those. Gedo Mazo's stumps are all over its body
I included my previous post. Look mostly at the first two images. I hope you won't say that they are physically the same bodies, as represented in the two pictures. If they represented the same object, you wouldn't find such major differences in their form, no matter how you'd look at them. Just tell me what you think about these two pictures. I'm pretty convinced about what I just said.
My conclusion: jubi is shown to have max ~5 growths on its body. Gedo mazo has at least 3x as many.
Oh, and the image you've shown is incorrect. This is what I've found:
no stumps, maybe a couple of unidentifiable growthsYou must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
sorry to disagree, but the stumps on yours are edited and the contrast is too high. I'll admit that the scan that I posted previously didn't show them, while there is someting near its head. But they can be anything as far as we're concerned. Possibly horns? Even with those, 8 (max) isn't near what gedo mazo has. I couldn't see more than 7 of them. The ones near the shoulders of the jubi are also sharp and look nothing like those of gedo mazo
Secondly, gedo mazo lacks the tails. The jubi can't have lost them since something like that has never been shown before. Naruto's tails were different: they measured how much of the kyubi was out. It was a gradual transformation into the kyubi. Biju don't lose body parts for no reason.
Gedo Mazo:
Jubi:
Again, the silhouettes are entirely different. Compared to their relative height, gedo mazo is at least twice as wide as the jubi.
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Jubi:
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Again, the silhouettes are entirely different. Compared to their relative height, gedo mazo is at least twice as wide as the jubi.
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You keep saying that there is no way that the two bodies could be the same. I very much disagree. If you look at the image of when Nagato summoned the Gedo Mazo, we count no more than 10 stumps on its back. When we see it in Madara's base, there are 15 or more, many of which are very small sub-branches if you will. Would you say then that these 2 are not the same body? No, we all know that the gedo mazo Nagato summoned that day is the same as the one in Madara's base now.the jubi probably has 5 of those. Gedo Mazo's stumps are all over its body
I included my previous post. Look mostly at the first two images. I hope you won't say that they are physically the same bodies, as represented in the two pictures. If they represented the same object, you wouldn't find such major differences in their form, no matter how you'd look at them. Just tell me what you think about these two pictures. I'm pretty convinced about what I just said.
My conclusion: jubi is shown to have max ~5 growths on its body. Gedo mazo has at least 3x as many.
Oh, and the image you've shown is incorrect. This is what I've found:
no stumps, maybe a couple of unidentifiable growthsYou must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
How then can you say that the Juubi does not have a similar number of stumps either? I mean seriously, we have one image of the Juubi that greatly lacks detail and you think there is no way its the same as the gedo mazo? I consider your conclusion very naive, considering we have seen Kishi change specific details of things a thousand times.
For example, do you remember how Kishi originally drew the sharingan? It looked significantly different from how it does now. Of course, there is no way you can argue that they are different despite it looking that way.
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Here's the new form of his sharingan, with a newly developed tomoe, just 10 chapters later!
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"We have one image of the juubi that greatly lacks detail".. that's precisely my point! how can you say that it's the same with gedo mazo?
I just had a look at the sharingan in
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. It looks almost the same. A bit thicker, but it's the same. 3 tomoe, and a circle through them. As for the one you suggested, it could be a shadow or anything. Shading is different from shape. Where am I wrong with that?The drawing of the jubi was done between the first and last versions of gedo mazo. Wouldn't kishimoto have made it intermediate if he had changed his mind?
I know you disagree with me
when it comes to the jubi and gedo mazo. We might not agree until kishimoto proves one way or another.Leaving the stumps of the gedo mazo aside (it had at least 11 initially), where are the tails?
And why is everyone calling it gedo mazo? Nagato, Konan, Kabuto. surely nagato had no reason to hide its name.
Since it adds a twist to the plot, you need better proof if you want people to objectively believe you.
(Please answer these 5 questions)
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