Also this feat from Kaido indicates that yonko are a step above admirals on average. Kaido and big mom handled g4 luffy with ease and Kaido especially wrecked him. I just don’t see fujitora or kizaru one shotting lufy in G4
Because we've seen Admirals attack G4 and fail to handle it in order to make this comparison.Also this feat from Kaido indicates that yonko are a step above admirals on average. Kaido and big mom handled g4 luffy with ease and Kaido especially wrecked him. I just don’t see fujitora or kizaru one shotting lufy in G4
Difference facets. For one thing, physical strength is just one aspect of battle. Fujitora is clearly a ranged fighter that uses gravity as his main weapon, so there's no reason to expect his physical strength to be on par with people who focus primarily on hand-to-hand close combat. Look at the difference between Fujitora attacking with gravity and blocking with his sword for nothing short of confirmation of this, as Furious Tiger completely overwhelmed Luffy and sent him flying. Not to mention that Luffy is resistance to blunt force, and Fujitora fights through blunt force gravity waves.Yea cuz fujitora was pushed back on a G3 attack from an injured luffy. G4 luffy has speed and power on G3 by a huge margin. So fujitora is not oneshotting G4 luffy any day.
It didn't damage Luffy because Luffy has resistance to blunt damage. What IS important, however, was that it sent Luffy flying. That demonstrates that Fuji using Gravity is more effective than him trying to use his physical strength.That attack did nothing to an injured luffy, it did not knock him out of the fight and this wasn’t even a G4 luffy. Fujitora tried to beat luffy but was clearly not shown at a level where he can one shot. Big mom and Kaido on the other hand easily stopped a much superior version of luffy. These are just the facts plain and simple. Big mom also has different skill sets compared to Kaido but both yonko easily handled a much superior version of luffy where as fujitora had to put some effort to deal with and not even knock out a weaker version of luffy
1. You have no way of knowing if Luffy wasn't knocked out because of his resistance to blunt force, of if the attack wasn't on the level of power able to knock him out. You're attributing it to the latter with no proof of that.All I see is bs excuses. Luffy flew but was still not knocked out and wasn’t even G4 lol. What part of that do u not get, Fujitora was pushed back by a G3 attack, zoro also was able to nullify fujitoras gravity attack and pushed back fujitora.
Exactly why you're comparison is invalid.Also admirals relying on df more than haki is on them. We do not know the level of fujitora ranged df + haki attacks
I never did.so quit reaching we have not seen him to have an attack like that so we can’t give him make believe feats.
Yet another faulty comparison.Hell we have not seen attacks of that level from kizaru who had to rely on a Va with sea stone to land hits on Marco.
He does exactly this.Fujitora had his chance in close range to stop luffy but he could not
Lol so gravity isn’t his main strength? He literally got to use different gravity attacks and could not knock out a weaker luffy. Luffy flying when in base stage is not super impressive at the very least, many characters handled luffy with ease in base mode1. You have no way of knowing if Luffy wasn't knocked out because of his resistance to blunt force, of if the attack wasn't on the level of power able to knock him out. You're attributing it to the latter with no proof of that.
2. The fact that Luffy went flying demonstrates that Fujitora defending with pure physical strength isn't him using is main ability, yet you're comparing it to Kaido and BM using their main abilities/weapons to KO Luffy.
All this proves is that Fujitora's physical strength is inferior to Kaido's physical strength and BM's soul draining power. That doesn't say anything about their overall power.
Exactly why you're comparison is invalid.
I never did.
Yet another faulty comparison.
He does exactly this.
Kaido taking luffy as a prisoner would be good twist here, it opens up kidd s plot.I'm curious which direction Oda is going to take this. He could take the easy way out and just have Law swap Luffy out, but I'm half and half hoping he takes the difficult road and let Kaidou take Luffy prisoner.
Because solo is 1.And that's not a solo why?...
Well brulee didnt intentionally help him. She was there on katakuris side. If luffy picked up a jet pack laying around and used it to get away it would still be a 1 v 1 . He used brulee who was on katakuris side, against her will, in no way did she hurt katakuri . still a 1v1 to me.Because solo is 1.
So everything more than 1 isn't solo.
Using her ability he escaped the mirroworld when he ran out of haki after G4th ran out. If Luffy didn't find Brulee when he did he would've been killed by Dogtooth then and there.
Meaning he had help from Brulee and wasn't able to win 'solo'
You're talking nonsense. So Brulee isn't on Luffy's side but on Katakuri's side ? According to your logic shouldn't it be a 1 vs 2 then ?Well brulee didnt intentionally help him. She was there on katakuris side. If luffy picked up a jet pack laying around and used it to get away it would still be a 1 v 1 . He used brulee who was on katakuris side, against her will, in no way did she hurt katakuri . still a 1v1 to me.
That's not what I said? You started the comparison by saying Fuji was pushed back by Gear Third. I pointed out that Fuji was only pushed back by Gear Third when he was clashing with Luffy using physical strength(not his main asset) and once he used his main asset(gravity), he sent Luffy flying helplessly.Lol so gravity isn’t his main strength?
That wasn't the point of me mentioning it though. The point of mentioning it was to show the difference between the effects of Fuji using nothing but raw strength and his actual main weapon.Luffy flying when in base stage is not super impressive at the very least, many characters handled luffy with ease in base mode
We haven't because you still haven't provided proof that Luffy's resistance to blunt force played no role in that.We have seen enough from fujitora to conclude he has no means of oneshotting luffy
Dude what? Aside from the terrible way you worded this, the fact that Fujitora's attack smashes things through blunt force and Luffy has resistance to blunt force is proof towards my claim. You've provided no proof towards yours.Nope. Because you still haven't provided proof that Luffy remaining conscious isn't the result of him or even low diffing him.
It's literally the same situation as Big Mom where Luffy was in a vulnerable position and someone else bailed him out. If it was a one on one situation like with Kaido, Fuji could have dropped the entirety of Dressrosa's rubble on him and killed him.He was in a situation where he had to stop luffy but couldn’t do so
And that would be correct. He COULD be, and to say whether or not he is, we'd have to wait. That's how making any assumption works.It’s like me saying oh we didn’t see Marcos best offensive haki move that means he might be on Kaidos tier we just have to wait and see.
Not really, considering that Admirals and Yonko are constantly hyped together. For example, Blackbeard avoiding both Shanks and Akainu for the same reasons. Chinjao saying that Luffy can never become PK unless he can get past the Admirals and Yonko. Akainu matching WB's power and even being stated to having the highest offensive power among DFs in the new databook, along with the hype that he could become PK in a year of story-telling as the protagonist. Then there's the Admirals showing feats on par with Yonko, even outclassing them in some displays.Also don’t ignore kaidos hype or big moms hype which are both superior to fujitora. These feats just further solidify their standings as a step above compared to someone like fujitora.
Again hes a swordsman so him getting pushed back with luffy's gear 3 is not an impressive showing and this was also not even close to luffys firepower. Also how is luffy being injured and in base form being flown away impressive??? in your own words luffy wasnt using his own main asset which is G4 which is much more powerful version while fuji was using his main strength which was his stronger gravity attacks.That's not what I said? You started the comparison by saying Fuji was pushed back by Gear Third. I pointed out that Fuji was only pushed back by Gear Third when he was clashing with Luffy using physical strength(not his main asset) and once he used his main asset(gravity), he sent Luffy flying helplessly.
I also pointed out that Kaido and BM both used methods of attack that Luffy had no immunity against when using their main assets, while Luffy has resistance to Fujitora. You have no evidence that if Luffy didn't have that resistance that he wouldn't have been knocked out, so your comparison has too many holes in it.
That wasn't the point of me mentioning it though. The point of mentioning it was to show the difference between the effects of Fuji using nothing but raw strength and his actual main weapon.
We haven't because you still haven't provided proof that Luffy's resistance to blunt force played no role in that.
Dude what? Aside from the terrible way you worded this, the fact that Fujitora's attack smashes things through blunt force and Luffy has resistance to blunt force is proof towards my claim. You've provided no proof towards yours.
It's literally the same situation as Big Mom where Luffy was in a vulnerable position and someone else bailed him out. If it was a one on one situation like with Kaido, Fuji could have dropped the entirety of Dressrosa's rubble on him and killed him.
And that would be correct. He COULD be, and to say whether or not he is, we'd have to wait. That's how making any assumption works.
Not really, considering that Admirals and Yonko are constantly hyped together. For example, Blackbeard avoiding both Shanks and Akainu for the same reasons. Chinjao saying that Luffy can never become PK unless he can get past the Admirals and Yonko. Akainu matching WB's power and even being stated to having the highest offensive power among DFs in the new databook, along with the hype that he could become PK in a year of story-telling as the protagonist. Then there's the Admirals showing feats on par with Yonko, even outclassing them in some displays.
Fujitora's swordsmanship revolves around his gravity, not his physical strength, so this claim is invalid.Again hes a swordsman so him getting pushed back with luffy's gear 3 is not an impressive showing
Please sir, may I have some reading comprehension?Also how is luffy being injured and in base form being flown away impressive???
Okay. This doesn't invalidate my claim at all.Also if he imbued his attack with haki luffy would regardless be gravely or substantially injured if he was so superior, he just doesnt have impressive haki feats compared to a Bm for example.
This...this was my point. A mangled phrasing of it, but my point regardless.Blunt damage is irrelavant when a person is superior in haki,
Luffy is going to outspeed rubble that spans the entirety of the country???the rubble isnt going to kill a flying speedster.
The difference between BM and Fuji is that physical power is a part of BM's main arsenal. Not only that, but you're talking about BM knocking out Luffy, which she accomplished via her DF, not physical power. So your point is invalidated on two points.Also BM uses more of her df in battle but she used her hands to effortlessly block one of G4s' best attack with ease
No, genius. I was saying that if someone wants to claim Marco is Yonko-level, they'd have to wait for feats to support that. That's how basic assumptions and claim-making works, you didn't make an argument.So we have to wait to see if marco is yonko level
Yeah, since BM likely drained Luffy's energy somehow and Kaido is a brute force monster using a spiked weapon with Haki, while Fujitora attacked using something Luffy has nigh-immunity to.What kaido and BM did in terms of feats are way better than what fujitora was able to accomplish.
Sir, are you capable of speaking English? When the hell did I say that makes Akainu "the best?" I said that establishes that Oda intends for Akainu to be considered on the level of person powerful enough to be Pirate King, something only attributed to the Yonko and other Admirals in other statements.So oda saying a character being too op from the start = means akainu is the best.
He's made it clear that Kaido is the strongest*. You can be the stronger than someone while being on the same level as them. Akainu vs Kuzan is a prime example of this.ol no, oda has made it clear the top dog is kaido.
Let's play a game. You name a hype or feat places an Emperor on an exclusive level only shared by other Emperors, and my task is to match it via hype or feat from an Admiral.The two groups are held as top tiers but one group is constantly getting better hype/feats only prime garp has gotten similar hype.
Difference being that Teach avoided fighting with a group of people for CP0, while Teach avoided fighting Akainu on the sole virtue of it's Akainu.You keep having a false equivalency bias. BB has run away from CP0 as well.
He was a New World pirate for over 20 years...BB not an experienced veteran
Just like how Akainu clashed with and beat WB at Marineford, so good job not proving a point.Also shanks primary hype is not BB running away, its his haki clash with WB and his clashes with the WSS
This being pre-skip doesn't matter because he also avoided fighting Shanks pre-skip.Fujitora's swordsmanship revolves around his gravity, not his physical strength, so this claim is invalid.
Please sir, may I have some reading comprehension?
Okay. This doesn't invalidate my claim at all.
This...this was my point. A mangled phrasing of it, but my point regardless.
Luffy is going to outspeed rubble that spans the entirety of the country???
The difference between BM and Fuji is that physical power is a part of BM's main arsenal. Not only that, but you're talking about BM knocking out Luffy, which she accomplished via her DF, not physical power. So your point is invalidated on two points.
No, genius. I was saying that if someone wants to claim Marco is Yonko-level, they'd have to wait for feats to support that. That's how basic assumptions and claim-making works, you didn't make an argument.
Yeah, since BM likely drained Luffy's energy somehow and Kaido is a brute force monster using a spiked weapon with Haki, while Fujitora attacked using something Luffy has nigh-immunity to.
Sir, are you capable of speaking English? When the hell did I say that makes Akainu "the best?" I said that establishes that Oda intends for Akainu to be considered on the level of person powerful enough to be Pirate King, something only attributed to the Yonko and other Admirals in other statements.
He's made it clear that Kaido is the strongest*. You can be the stronger than someone while being on the same level as them. Akainu vs Kuzan is a prime example of this.
Let's play a game. You name a hype or feat places an Emperor on an exclusive level only shared by other Emperors, and my task is to match it via hype or feat from an Admiral.
Difference being that Teach avoided fighting with a group of people for CP0, while Teach avoided fighting Akainu on the sole virtue of it's Akainu.
[QUOT]And this was pre time skip
Her physical power isn't a non-dominant power. Invalid.again in that example i gave you a comparison who used her non dominant ability
Yeah, the same way Kizaru dodging things with better maneuverability than anyone else in the series doesn't make him the strongest character.to easily tank luffys strongest attacks like nothing but fujitora cant do the same? this is a case where her feats are superior to fujitora, idk how much simpler i can make it for you.
Luffy being in different forms isn't relevant though. Luffy, in any form, has no resistance to what Kaido and BM did, while he has resistance to what Fuji's ability is in any form.All your claims are invalidated because you are comparing different versions of luffy but do not acknowledge that at all.
If you're referring to sending Luffy flying while Luffy was using Gear 3, then this is also irrelevant as that is not the claim I made.what fuji did is not impressive.
This isn't a requirement, as using Haki period will negate Luffy's nigh-immunity to blunt force, and it's down to nothing but his pure stamina and durability to withstand it. That's the point I made.Again its on you to show me where fujitora has shown immense haki feats.
Using this logic, Kizaru can't shoot Luffy in the face because if he could, he would have in MF instead of shooting him in the stomach. Akainu can't melt Luffy because if he could have, he would have instead of letting Kizaru attack him. If Aokiji could have shattered a frozen Luffy, he would have done it on Long-Ring Island. We can go on forever with this. Invalid.If fuji had it he would use it in high leverage moments which he did not.
Luffy actually can die if struck without enough physical force. All of that rubble falling on top of Luffy would have killed him. Also, Doflamingo never struck Luffy with as much string as there was rubble. Doubly invalid.Rubble is not going to kill luffy, doffy had all the surroundings turn to string, which actually has more piercing power and luffy was able to survive that quite easily.
Not an entire country's worth.and luffy can break through rubble due to his immense power feats. Again i am not saying he will beat fuji but fuji is in no way low diffing him.
None of this invalidates the points I made.Are you not reading what I am saying. BM used her soul powers which is her main arsenal, she also used her base strength and blocked a G4. fuji with his gravity wasnt severely hurting luffy in any way and if we put a G4 luffy it only makes it that much harder on fuji.
This shows that he's inferior to them in ONE specific category: Physical strength. It doesn't mean he's weaker than them all overall.fuji had to take out SH but doesnt seem to have the haki prowess to do so that is a reflection on him more than anything, he has a goddamn sword too which can pierce but he gets pushed back by G3 injured luffy these are moments to show that he is on the lower end of the admiral power levels.
Nope. Oda used Akainu as an example of needing a character who has to grow because if you start with someone like Akainu, you wouldn't have a story to tell as the story would end relatively immediately. Oda's statement was that Akainu, as he is now, is strong enough to just be made Pirate King if he told the story about him.Your whole example of akinu being capable of getting the OP is extremely flawed, what oda said is you cant start a MC at that level cuz there isnt much growth from that high point of power.
This means the exact same thing.I am not saying admirals are on some level below but they are just so far shown to be a step below.
Akainu being called strong enough to be PK, which puts him on the same level as Roger and therefore Garp, and therefore WB. Which also puts Kuzan on that level due to the fact that he is strong enough to push Akainu close to death. And considering that the other Admirals are constantly lumped together, like with Chinjao's statement, extends that kind of hype to them as well.Name anyone who has been given hype on the level of Roger/Garp/Kaido/prime wb.
WB at his old age and battered by many Marines was able to land a sneak attack on Akainu that couldn't injure him enough to take him out of the war or hinder his fighting ability. Meanwhile, when WB faced off with Akainu without hindering injuries and face-to-face straight up, Akainu won. Corrected for you.WB at his old age and getting battered by many marines gave akainu a run for his money so I dont put him on that level based on his feats.
The fact that Teach exhibits the same reaction to Akainu as he does with Shanks is impressive for Akainu, as it's the exact same hype.Teach avoiding a guy when he is pre timeskip isnt all that great.
You didn't say "an Emperor," you said "a veteran." Which Teach was after 20 years in the New World under the top pirate. Just concede that you were wrong on that point.Being new world pirate vs being a legit yonko are two completely different things.
Extremely ironic, as you consider WB sneak attacking Akainu, a dirty trick in its own right, as a valid display of superiority.LOL akainu relying on every dirty trick
Akainu beat WB before WB was weakened by any injuries.and a 100 different marines to injure WB is not impressive.
I honestly doubt this (everyone is entitled to own opinion )Yea cuz fujitora was pushed back on a G3 attack from an injured luffy. G4 luffy has speed and power on G3 by a huge margin. So fujitora is not oneshotting G4 luffy any day.
what she uses in the fight is mostly her homies, her best attacks are those. Swordsmanship is a strong suit of fjuitora but his gravity supersedes it and he is relatively new to his df so his swordsmanship is not at a scrub level.Her physical power isn't a non-dominant power. Invalid.
Yeah, the same way Kizaru dodging things with better maneuverability than anyone else in the series doesn't make him the strongest character.
Saying BM is overall better than Fuji solely because she can use her physical strength better is like saying Sanji is overall better than Zoro solely because he can move faster and with better dexterity than Zoro can.
Luffy being in different forms isn't relevant though. Luffy, in any form, has no resistance to what Kaido and BM did, while he has resistance to what Fuji's ability is in any form.
If you're referring to sending Luffy flying while Luffy was using Gear 3, then this is also irrelevant as that is not the claim I made.
This isn't a requirement, as using Haki period will negate Luffy's nigh-immunity to blunt force, and it's down to nothing but his pure stamina and durability to withstand it. That's the point I made.
Using this logic, Kizaru can't shoot Luffy in the face because if he could, he would have in MF instead of shooting him in the stomach. Akainu can't melt Luffy because if he could have, he would have instead of letting Kizaru attack him. If Aokiji could have shattered a frozen Luffy, he would have done it on Long-Ring Island. We can go on forever with this. Invalid.
Luffy actually can die if struck without enough physical force. All of that rubble falling on top of Luffy would have killed him. Also, Doflamingo never struck Luffy with as much string as there was rubble. Doubly invalid.
Not an entire country's worth.
None of this invalidates the points I made.
This shows that he's inferior to them in ONE specific category: Physical strength. It doesn't mean he's weaker than them all overall.
Nope. Oda used Akainu as an example of needing a character who has to grow because if you start with someone like Akainu, you wouldn't have a story to tell as the story would end relatively immediately. Oda's statement was that Akainu, as he is now, is strong enough to just be made Pirate King if he told the story about him.
This means the exact same thing.
Akainu being called strong enough to be PK, which puts him on the same level as Roger and therefore Garp, and therefore WB. Which also puts Kuzan on that level due to the fact that he is strong enough to push Akainu close to death. And considering that the other Admirals are constantly lumped together, like with Chinjao's statement, extends that kind of hype to them as well.
WB at his old age and battered by many Marines was able to land a sneak attack on Akainu that couldn't injure him enough to take him out of the war or hinder his fighting ability. Meanwhile, when WB faced off with Akainu without hindering injuries and face-to-face straight up, Akainu won. Corrected for you.
The fact that Teach exhibits the same reaction to Akainu as he does with Shanks is impressive for Akainu, as it's the exact same hype.
You didn't say "an Emperor," you said "a veteran." Which Teach was after 20 years in the New World under the top pirate. Just concede that you were wrong on that point.
Extremely ironic, as you consider WB sneak attacking Akainu, a dirty trick in its own right, as a valid display of superiority.
Akainu beat WB before WB was weakened by any injuries.
luffys already faced someone who turned large areas into a df like doffy and he was able to dodge them well and strings can penetrate where as rubble cannot. luffy's feats of pure carnage is high and he is fast. fujiotora isnt gonna simply drown him. Maybe if they are fighting in a ship it might be easier, but fuji main gravity attack that has been countered by zoro and luffy and it would be easier whenhe is in G4 where he is much faster and stronger. Again without a doubt fuji vs luffy goes to fuji, but the argument is luffy doesnt go down in a no diff fightI honestly doubt this (everyone is entitled to own opinion )
But what's stopping Fuji from using gravity to lift luffy and burying him in the ocean. I mean come on he clearly let them escape he could've easily used gravity to just bring them back yet he didn't :|