he wasnt trained to vice admiral or amiral level he was trained as a rear adrimal which just above tashigi level when he left the marines and the fact that he beat a underling does nothing for him and we dont knoe whos next in strength after the king queen and jack so you cant just say he the next strongest
He was rear admiral before he left Marines and became a pirate. After that he became supernova, at this stage he is obviously VA lvl guy since rear admirals immediately gets promotion to VA if they do something big.Best example: that rear admiral who killed Fisher tiger, he is now VA.
Secondly at Sabody Arch.... Arc he showed same lvl of strength as monk did against Pacifista and let's not forget that Monk was bleeding but he wasn't which again shows in terms of strength he is at same lvl as Urogue was pre TS.
Lastly if u follow the theory that Kaido commanders follows cards setup then obviously he is 4th strongest guy after King, Jack and Queen since X represents 10 in Roman. Now let's add Ancient Zoan df(which he have and Jack has) hypes the case that he is most probably 4th strongest guy untill somebody else is shown.
Dude he is relentless, his G4 fighting style or any for that matter is a lot of punching endlessly. And he can fly and is fast so law is at a major disadvantage.
Gear Fourth isn't relentless though. "Relentless" is Luffy using Gear Fourth against Blueno for the first time where every time he hit an attack, he immediately followed up with another attack WHILE Blueno was still reeling.
Not only did you completely miss the point of what I said, but you're also wrong about Luffy outclassing Doflamingo in speed. Doflamingo's disadvantage against Gear Fourth was never that he wasn't fast enough for Gear Fourth, it was that he was incapable of producing the same raw power that Gear Fourth could. So even though he was fast enough to react to and move in tandem with Gear Fourth, allowing him to block attacks by moving his arms and activating Haki, he wasn't able to generate enough brute force of his own for the blocks to be effective.
The relevance of this is that a weakened Doffy has shown the ability to keep up with Gear Fourth speed wise, and Law can keep up with a fully healthy Doffy with no physical limitations. That shows that Law has the ability to react to Gear Fourth Luffy. He can get around the fact that Luffy produces more raw power than him by using his ability to teleport to avoid being hit by Luffy. Unlike Doflamingo, Law doesn't need to try to block Luffy's power, he can evade it altogether with Chambres.
No BS at all. The gaps in Gear Fourth were shown clear as day in the manga.
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At any one of these moments, Law can use Chambres to avoid being hit by these attacks completely.
Not at all, considering we saw Luffy do the exact same Muscle Balloon process for Tankman, and it was reasonable to assume at that time that it was off-paneled.
Nope. Luffy's Gear Fourth relies on a wind-up mechanism and a burst of speed from his feet that stuns the opponent. Once the opponent is stunned, he can charge up his next-attack and repeat the process. This kind of fighting is dangerous against Law because Law doesn't have to block, he can just teleport and avoid it completely.
Same as above. Even if it's a normal punch, Law still has the option of teleporting himself while Luffy is charging. This changes nothing.
This isn't true at all. Luffy's mobility in Gear Fourth is exactly the same as Vergo's: He just launches himself at you. Only ONE of Luffy's attacks has been shown to be different, and that was Schneider. Luffy has the same "I charge towards you" style that Vergo did.
Law was outclassed by doffy by such a margin and doffy toyed with him, with luffy he couldn't see attacks coming in base form. And again luffy kept up with a whole town of strings attacking him, those are all feats that show luffy is faster than law base, luffys attacks are faster than doffys as well only awakening can match luffy in G4.
I don't really care what you have to say. There's no debating about it whatsoever: When Luffy eats, he regains his stamina. The scan I posted shows him regaining stamina instantly from eating. The Gear Fourth cooldown happens when Luffy's stamina reaches zero and he has to recharge. If he's constantly eating, his stamina is constantly being refilled, meaning it never hit zero. Gear Fourth burns out when there's a finite pool of stamina to draw from. If that pool is constantly being sustained, then Gear Fourth won't burn out. And that's the bottom line on that.
Your own scan shows how wrong you are. Doffy didn't even see the attack coming and again for the 100th time law doesn't fair well against faster opponents and that was a scan of luffy outclassing base doffy in speed so your whole argument as usual is wrong.
All those wind ups are done very fast the manga slows down to show the mechanics if it was as slow as u say it is then doffy would have countered them a lot easier.
Not instantaneous otherwise like I said he'd be G4 at an extremely rapid pace. And it doesn't heal injuries so the revival argument is a bad one.
If law can just teleport himself that effectively could have been useful when doffy was kicking the crap out of him. His feats just don't add up you are just going on hypotheticals. We aren't trying to write fanfics here, show me how law was effective against doffy which he wasn't at all and how that makes him more prepared for a faster G4 luffy.
Vergo was running and he is straightforward in the sense he literally moves linearly, luffy takes flight and can come at u at different directions and is way above vergos level of speed. Those are just plain facts. Your argument that luffy comes straight at someone is proven wrong by your own scan. Dude good job at using scans to prove against yourself.
Your own scan shows how wrong you are. Doffy didn't even see the attack coming and again for the 100th time law doesn't fair well against faster opponents and that was a scan of luffy outclassing base doffy in speed so your whole argument as usual is wrong.
Except Doflamingo activated Haki on the side of his face that Luffy's kick was aiming at. Even though he didn't physically move, him activating Haki on the exact spot Luffy was about to him=him reacting to the attack. If he didn't know the attack was coming, he wouldn't have activated Haki.
Also, base Doffy? What the **** is "base" Doffy? Secondly, Doflamingo physically moved to block Luffy multiple times, blitzed him, and dodged his attacks. None of those are possible if Doflamingo wasn't able to keep up with Luffy physically or react to him.
All those wind ups are done very fast the manga slows down to show the mechanics if it was as slow as u say it is then doffy would have countered them a lot easier.
Doesn't even matter. Those gaps still exist, and as shown with Doflamingo, they leave an opening for a person to react in. Cases in point, Doflamingo moving his arms to block, or activating Haki on his face as an attempt to block the blow. The advantage Law has is is that he can teleport instead of attempting to block. And he's shown fighting Doflamingo, he has reactions and physical speed on par with his own.
Not instantaneous otherwise like I said he'd be G4 at an extremely rapid pace. And it doesn't heal injuries so the revival argument is a bad one.
And what relevance is the "heal injuries" part again? This debate started because that clown Variah said Luffy can't restore stamina from eating. I never said eating heals his injuries, but it's a canon manga FACT that Luffy's stamina is restored by eating and Gear Fourth works by burning calories.
If law can just teleport himself that effectively could have been useful when doffy was kicking the crap out of him. His feats just don't add up you are just going on hypotheticals. We aren't trying to write fanfics here, show me how law was effective against doffy which he wasn't at all and how that makes him more prepared for a faster G4 luffy.
And this brings me back to the plot-induced stupidity argument. Saying "If Law could do it, it'd have changed the outcome of the fight" isn't a valid argument because there's a lot of things Law COULD do that he didn't for the sake of plot. Example, AGAIN, is him not teleporting Doflamingo into the water. Are you going to say he couldn't do that because he didn't? Of course not. The same thing applies here. Without plot holding him back, the ability to teleport within a range equivalent to a mountain is a serious advantage, especially against an opponent as careless and reckless as Luffy.
And Luffy isn't faster than Doflamingo. Can't dodge, blitz, and physically react to someone who's that much faster than you the way Doflamingo did to Luffy.
Vergo was running and he is straightforward in the sense he literally moves linearly, luffy takes flight and can come at u at different directions and is way above vergos level of speed. Those are just plain facts
This is a nice little dose of hypocrisy. Luffy shows himself to attack linearly? "Nah, he can go from different angles, even though he doesn't fight like that." And yet when usages of Law's teleporting is brought up, they're invalid because he never did it in the manga. Stay classy, I'm done with this clown show of a discussion. Have fun honking at each other.
The difference between them is that we have proof that warrants dismissal. Even if you have DOUBT, you have NOTHING that warrants dismissal of Urouge defeating Snack by himself at this point in time. Unless you can bring up something that SPECIFICALLY addresses Urouge's situation, then as it stands now, he did it one on one.
We have NO proof of anything other than Urogue is credited as beating snack anything else about that fight is speculation on either end. Brulee's statement isn't proof and it never mentioned anything about one on one or single handily, what she said was we've had others come in here and Urogue managed to take out one of our Sweet Commanders in the process the on his own or with help is something you and I are filling in because no information was given to how it happened. What we do have is proof that the manga has had characters give full credit to a single individual in the past when the reader knows the fight didn't happen that way. That's precedent to assume the same happened with Urogue.
He was rear admiral before he left Marines and became a pirate. After that he became supernova, at this stage he is obviously VA lvl guy since rear admirals immediately gets promotion to VA if they do something big.Best example: that rear admiral who killed Fisher tiger, he is now VA.
Secondly at Sabody Arch.... Arc he showed same lvl of strength as monk did against Pacifista and let's not forget that Monk was bleeding but he wasn't which again shows in terms of strength he is at same lvl as Urogue was pre TS.
Lastly if u follow the theory that Kaido commanders follows cards setup then obviously he is 4th strongest guy after King, Jack and Queen since X represents 10 in Roman. Now let's add Ancient Zoan df(which he have and Jack has) hypes the case that he is most probably 4th strongest guy untill somebody else is shown.
that all theory based on nothing he been had x in his name even before he joined kaido and the guy he beat to get noticed was also beaten by caribu so that was basically an easy fight for drake
So we have no proof other than the proof? Lmao what a joke this discussion is.
Brulee's statement isn't proof and it never mentioned anything about one on one or single handily, what she said was we've had others come in here and Urogue managed to take out one of our Sweet Commanders
Crazy how "A group of people came and Urouge was the only person to stand a chance" is somehow not proof that she was talking about Urouge on an individual level.
in the process the on his own or with help is something you and I are filling in because no information was given to how it happened. What we do have is proof that the manga has had characters give full credit to a single individual in the past when the reader knows the fight didn't happen that way. That's precedent to assume the same happened with Urogue.
Key phrase: The reader knows the fight didn't happen that way. The precedent is NOT to assume the same happened because, like the other situations, we need proof that it went down another way.
Until you can prove that it wasn't 1 vs 1, then Brulee saying its 1 vs 1 means it was 1 vs 1. Bottom line.
that all theory based on nothing he been had x in his name even before he joined kaido and the guy he beat to get noticed was also beaten by caribu so that was basically an easy fight for drake
Yes Caribou defeated him and tried to start a revolt and the next thing we saw Drake single handedly crushed that rebellion.
This shows if u try to cause problems in a Yonko territory u will face wrath of strong guys. This was also one of my point when I said pre TS Drake beating that guy means some strong guys went after him but he successfully joined the crew is proof enough that Kaido liked him(maybe because he is also a zoan df user).
Yes Caribou defeated him and tried to start a revolt and the next thing we saw Drake single handedly crushed that rebellion.
This shows if u try to cause problems in a Yonko territory u will face wrath of strong guys. This was also one of my point when I said pre TS Drake beating that guy means some strong guys went after him but he successfully joined the crew is proof enough that Kaido liked him(maybe because he is also a zoan df user).
I think he is at the top of the Supernova list. Back at Sabaody when Luffy, Zoro and Sanji fired their strongest attacks at a Pacifista it barely budged. But Drake casually kicked on through a building. He was winning in a battle of strength until he got surprised by the laser.
He had the balls to go immediately onto yonkou turf during the timeskip, and has been seen guarding a place for Kaidou meaning he got accepted there. So he has had 2 years of New World experience with access to Yonkou resources.
Also out of story telling perspective would it be a bit weird to have Luffy on top of the list during the half way point.
I think he is at the top of the Supernova list. Back at Sabaody when Luffy, Zoro and Sanji fired their strongest attacks at a Pacifista it barely budged. But Drake casually kicked on through a building. He was winning in a battle of strength until he got surprised by the laser.
He had the balls to go immediately onto yonkou turf during the timeskip, and has been seen guarding a place for Kaidou meaning he got accepted there. So he has had 2 years of New World experience with access to Yonkou resources.
Also out of story telling perspective would it be a bit weird to have Luffy on top of the list during the half way point.
Drake is a very interesting character.
He didnt showed any emotion when he heard Doffy was defeated.
There are few things which still needs to be explained like
1)why he left marines?
He seems to have good amount of knowledge regarding Pacifista. I believe he has seen crimes committed by marines in the name of Justice.
2)what Law was trying to say here:
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Strength wise he is on same lvl as top supernovas or may be ahead of few supernovas. He casually stopped a brawl between Urogue and Killer at Sabody Arch.... Arc
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I have also read/watched a theory that X-Drake is inspired from Francis Drake. That could give his character more depth in Wano arc.
There's no proof it was one on one and you know it that's why you couldn't disprove the post so you attempt to deflect through mockery, in typical Riker fashion.
Crazy how "A group of people came and Urouge was the only person to stand a chance" is somehow not proof that she was talking about Urouge on an individual level.
It's not because they'll say the same thing about Luffy and we know he didn't come alone either. People at the level of BM pirates don't consider the little guys that's why when Cracker landed they said he went to deal with Straw Hat Luffy not he went to deal with those Straw Hats, they mention Luffy specifically and only even though they know there were others there Cracker went to deal with.
Key phrase: The reader knows the fight didn't happen that way. The precedent is NOT to assume the same happened because, like the other situations, we need proof that it went down another way.
Brulee never said it was 1v1 that's what you can't seem to grasp or prove. Show where Brulee said Urogue beat Snack on his own because what she said doesn't say that. She said Urogue managed to take out one of BM's sweet commanders before being run out by Cracker. Anything beyond that in conjecture.
There's no proof it was one on one and you know it that's why you couldn't disprove the post so you attempt to deflect through mockery, in typical Riker fashion.
"The only one who even managed to put up a semblance of a fight was Urouge"
"Urouge took down our commanders."
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Her only mentioning Urouge makes it, for now, a 1 vs 1.
It's not because they'll say the same thing about Luffy and we know he didn't come alone either. People at the level of BM pirates don't consider the little guys that's why when Cracker landed they said he went to deal with Straw Hat Luffy not he went to deal with those Straw Hats, they mention Luffy specifically and only even though they know there were others there Cracker went to deal with.
Context matters. Cracker stated Big Mom sent him because Luffy would be too much for Brulee. She didn't send him because the rest of the Strawhats don't matter in consideration, she sent him because Brulee wouldn't be enough to handle Luffy, even though she could handle the rest with Luffy. When the Strawhats arrived, she addressed their presence as "The Strawhats," after all. When Katakuri gave the order to apprehend the Strawhats, he addressed them as THE STRAWHATS, so this tangent is out the window.
You don't need proof to assume, assumption is the forming of a conclusion based on a lack of proof.
Brulee never said it was 1v1 that's what you can't seem to grasp or prove. Show where Brulee said Urogue beat Snack on his own because what she said doesn't say that. She said Urogue managed to take out one of BM's sweet commanders before being run out by Cracker. Anything beyond that in conjecture.
Brulee saying that Urouge taking down Snack IS Brulee saying that it was 1 vs 1, especially when she said he was the "ONLY one to put up a semblance of a fight." Until you have proof it wasn't a 1 vs 1, it was a 1 vs 1.
"The only one who even managed to put up a semblance of a fight was Urouge"
"Urouge took down our commanders."
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Her only mentioning Urouge makes it, for now, a 1 vs 1.
Context matters. Cracker stated Big Mom sent him because Luffy would be too much for Brulee. She didn't send him because the rest of the Strawhats don't matter in consideration, she sent him because Brulee wouldn't be enough to handle Luffy, even though she could handle the rest with Luffy. When the Strawhats arrived, she addressed their presence as "The Strawhats," after all. When Katakuri gave the order to apprehend the Strawhats, he addressed them as THE STRAWHATS, so this tangent is out the window.
In other words, worthless.
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Brulee saying that Urouge taking down Snack IS Brulee saying that it was 1 vs 1, especially when she said he was the "ONLY one to put up a semblance of a fight." Until you have proof it wasn't a 1 vs 1, it was a 1 vs 1.
Nope, Luffy vs Doffy is different because we have evidence from the manga that this wasn't the case. If you want to compare this to Urouge vs Snack, then just like with Luffy vs Doffy, you're gonna have to drop manga panels of people helping Urouge.
Nope, Luffy vs Doffy is different because we have evidence from the manga that this wasn't the case. If you want to compare this to Urouge vs Snack, then just like with Luffy vs Doffy, you're gonna have to drop manga panels of people helping Urouge.
1. Cracker wasn't there when Luffy defeated Doflamingo, while Brulee was when Snack was defeated. Can't compare someone talking about something they were there for and something they just heard about.
2. We have manga facts that show that Luffy didn't defeat Doflamingo on his own. Now drop the proof that Urouge had help. I'll wait ****
1. Cracker wasn't there when Luffy defeated Doflamingo, while Brulee was when Snack was defeated. Can't compare someone talking about something they were there for and something they just heard about.
2. We have manga facts that show that Luffy didn't defeat Doflamingo on his own. Now drop the proof that Urouge had help. I'll wait ****
Except for the fact that Brulee says "No one escapes these woods" while referring to Urouge's defeat, proving that the conflict happened in the woods that she controls.
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You don't have manga facts that Urouge fought Snack 1v1 tho.. get it through your head.
Except for the fact that Brulee says "No one escapes these woods" while referring to Urouge's defeat, proving that the conflict happened in the woods that she controls.
She also says that she's "sure his corpse is probably rotting off somewhere around here"... literally says that she's "sure".. yet she couldn't be more wrong.. just like you.. you're wrong as fk and the fact that you hate it when you're proven wrong, is the reason why this thread is 6 pages. Give it up bro. The manga proved how unreliable Brulee's word is.. it also proves that when characters speak on another character being beaten they don't go into detail with every or any other character that helped in their defeat.
What a fool you continue to be. Current manga word is that Urouge defeated Cracker, and there's zero evidence that he had help.
Until you have a scan that literally says Urouge fought Snack by himself, you can't speak on it as if it's a fact. You can only make an ass out of yourself by assuming. Which you're doing a good job of btw..
