Orochimaru vs Hidan and Kakuzu

KidGamer65

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Kusanagi caused damage to diamond-hard Enma, even though Orochimaru only slashed with it. Piercing is way more dangerous, because penetrative power is way greater.

FES didn't block his chakra completely, but made him unconscious for a few hours and removed his ability to control and sustain his chakra usage, so Naruto wasn't even able to stand on water (even after 30 chapters the effect didn't weaken, it was gone only thanks to Jiraiya).
Domu has the same diamond hard statement that Enma does. Piercing power might be more lethal than slashing but there's no convincing evidence that he'd pierce Domu or Enma if he had thrust at him instead of slashing. All Enma even said is that it'd make him sore.

But if he was still able to use Ninjutsu then I don't see how it'd help him beat Kakuzu here.
 

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Domu has the same diamond hard statement that Enma does. Piercing power might be more lethal than slashing but there's no convincing evidence that he'd pierce Domu or Enma if he had thrust at him instead of slashing. All Enma even said is that it'd make him sore.

But if he was still able to use Ninjutsu then I don't see how it'd help him beat Kakuzu here.
Enma clearly stated that Kusanagi was dangerous to him even in his diamond form. Also, Orochimaru went for Kusanagi after Enma had transformed. Why would he even take out his sword if knew it was useless? I'm not saying Kusanagi can cut Kakuzu like butter, but saying it cannot damage to him is definitely a stretch.

FES caused inflicted enormous pain to Naruto, left him unconscious for a few hours and permanently disturbed his chakra flow. I don't see any reason same thing wouldn't happen to Kakuzu.
 

Brother Numpsay

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Kakuzu isn't going to actually kill Orochimaru with his elemental attacks
1. What is your view on Orochimaru taking on Madara's Majestic Destroyer Flame?
2. Why do you think Orochimaru can live against Air Pressure Damage? When you believe an attack that hits his brain spells out KO.
3. Why do you think Orochimaru can live against Katon+Futon combo?

especially since the only one that even comes close to being lethal for him is Raiton, and that's only if it hits his head or something like that.
Would that be a problem when the Raiton Spear hitbox is bigger, or the size of his body?

-Hidan's not an issue in any way, shape or form and Orochimaru has Kusanagi.
Based on?

-If Masks are released individually picking them off won't be too difficult. Orochimaru can easily survive their attacks but they won't be able to survive his attacks whether it be through Kusanagi, Manda, Eight Branches or some other attack.
Already mentioned Kakuzu's attacks. Why do you think Orochimaru can survive Hidan's ritual?
 

KidGamer65

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1. What is your view on Orochimaru taking on Madara's Majestic Destroyer Flame?
2. Why do you think Orochimaru can live against Air Pressure Damage? When you believe an attack that hits his brain spells out KO.
3. Why do you think Orochimaru can live against Katon+Futon combo?



Would that be a problem when the Raiton Spear hitbox is bigger, or the size of his body?



Based on?



Already mentioned Kakuzu's attacks. Why do you think Orochimaru can survive Hidan's ritual?
1. It hits him, and then he recovers using Oral Rebirh.

2. Eight Branches, or he simply takes it in human form and survives using Oral Rebirth. Blocking his head with his arms prevents any serious damage on that front and it's feats are pathetic so why believe that it kills Orochimaru in one shot in the first place when he can take KN3's physical strike and only lose an arm, and take KN1's strike straight to the face and only have his face peeled off a bit.

3. Eight Branches. Though this is one he'll probably have to just dodge if he's not using Eight Branches.


If the spear is larger or the same size as his body itself then no it's not a problem, but Eight Branches and the fact that he can dodge, or at the very least not get hit completely means that it's barely an issue.


Hidan needs to pierce him to get his blood. Hidan needs to get close to do that. If he gets close Mandara no Jin and stop him, pierce him and bind him. That combined w/ the fact that Orochimaru actually has a weapon that can dismember him and it's not really a contest. He can't have Kakuzu gather blood for him because Kakuzu's attacks don't draw blood well enough for him to retrieve it. If Kakuzu tries to save him using an elemental attack then Orochimaru can block him by having a clone use Rashomon.

And I never said he'd survive the ritual.

Enma clearly stated that Kusanagi was dangerous to him even in his diamond form. Also, Orochimaru went for Kusanagi after Enma had transformed. Why would he even take out his sword if knew it was useless? I'm not saying Kusanagi can cut Kakuzu like butter, but saying it cannot damage to him is definitely a stretch.

FES caused inflicted enormous pain to Naruto, left him unconscious for a few hours and permanently disturbed his chakra flow. I don't see any reason same thing wouldn't happen to Kakuzu.
I can actually agree with this line of thinking. Though him taking out his sword is simply because it will help parry the pole even if he can't actually damage it. Maybe with enough strikes he'll be able to do something to Kakuzu.

Yeah, but that was Naruto as a 12 yr old kid. Not Kakuzu, who is >>>>>> That Naruto.
 
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Brother Numpsay

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2. Or he simply takes it in human form and survives using Oral Rebirth. Blocking his head with his arms prevents any serious damage on that front and it's feats are pathetic so why believe that it kills Orochimaru in one shot in the first place when he can take KN3's physical strike and only lose an arm, and take KN1's strike straight to the face and only have his face peeled off a bit.
Blocking can stop damage from pressure?

How is Orochimaru going to anticipate the attack either? When it required Kakashi (who has matching/rivaling physical stats to Oro) Sharingan to anticipate and react accordingly?

Where was it ever implied that KN3 physically strike him? Since then did KN3 physical strike has such destructive power to even do what it did around it area it blew up?

How is KN1 strike even close to Atsugai power?

If he's not, using Eight Branches.
Why can Branches survive this attack?

but Eight Branches and the fact that he can dodge, or at the very least not get hit completely means that it's barely an issue.
8 Branches still has to deal with the Raiton because it can create multiple bolts.

What feats enable him to dodge the Raiton?

Doesnt barley getting hit leave blood trails for this match up?

If he gets close Mandara no Jin
I fail to see this jutsu being a problem when he gets close, since the start up of the attack isnt that many snakes to be a factor. It just leaves Oro open to someone who can deal with Asuma CQC, along with avoiding 6 shadow stitches (better speed feats then those snakes).

and stop him,
[ ]​

That combined w/ the fact that Orochimaru actually has a weapon that can dismember him and it's not really a contest.
Oro CQC is as good as Kakashi, which Hidan already matched without his metal cable benefiting his combat style.

He can't have Kakuzu gather blood for him because Kakuzu's attacks don't draw blood well enough for him to retrieve it.
Futon and Raiton?

If Kakuzu tries to save him using an elemental attack then Orochimaru can block him by having a clone use Rashomon.
I agree that this works out if Kakuzu uses it for back stabs. But Kakuzu's style with Hidan uses his jutsu head on (when the opponet is to focus on Hidan) so thats not working out in that scenario.
 

super yang

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orochimaru wins

they have no way of geting blood since hidan can't compete w/ snakes & swords that have much more priority than Nara hijutsu. and oro has shadow clones to cement his many tactical advantages in this respect.

kakuzu can't put a scratch on manda or yamata.


perhaps the only people it can't bisect are 3rd raikage & kakuzu, but kusanagi can pierce any in this manga.
a sentient bijuu cloak acting as the literal manifestation of plot armor doesn't contradict that

oro methodically subjugates kakuzus 4 satellites then cuts the spaghetti-man down in cqc, while hidan runs around like a headless rooster
 
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Dizzldot

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don't forget that kakuzu was basically beaten by plot lil there was no reason to engage naruto like that way he did he easily could've kept spamming his wind fire combo and bested them he was about to oil kakashi and the others very easily.
The scale of his jutsu are massive and let us not forget he can use all five elements at once from different direction while oro has to kill him 5 times. mid high diff pro even though oro is literally all hype
 

KidGamer65

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Blocking can stop damage from pressure?
It's blunt force damage. Nothing more, nothing less.

How is Orochimaru going to anticipate the attack either? When it required Kakashi (who has matching/rivaling physical stats to Oro) Sharingan to anticipate and react accordingly?
Don't compare a scenario where Hidan was a distraction and where they launched it from almost point blank range yet it was still dodged it for the most part. That's terrible when talking about speed feats. Orochimaru easily reacts.

Where was it ever implied that KN3 physically strike him? Since then did KN3 physical strike has such destructive power to even do what it did around it area it blew up?
That's the only way KN3 would actually take off his arm. Not sure what you mean with the bold.

How is KN1 strike even close to Atsugai power?
Who said it was? Combining the fact that Orochimaru can get away from that to the face, and KN3's hit w/ just a missing arm, the attack that didn't damage Hidan isn't going to kill him on impact. Not a chance.

Why can Branches survive this attack?
Because it can't even scratch Hidan. :lol If you think Atsugai is strong enough to kill a snake stronger than Manda then by all means I'd love you to show me the feat that supports that.


8 Branches still has to deal with the Raiton because it can create multiple bolts.
2 bolts. 8 heads. Not to mention Orochimaru himself will remain unharmed even if the heads of his beast get pierced.

What feats enable him to dodge the Raiton?
Kakashi came from nowhere and intercepted it from close range. Orochimaru can merge with the ground using Attack Prevention Jutsu or he can use Hiding Like a Mole. Nowhere near the amount of effort is needed on his part to accomplish the same results Kakashi did.

Funny how you are asking this question when it literally has no speed feat that'd prevent Orochimaru from reacting. On the other hand here are Orochimaru's speed feats:

-Reacting to KN4's Bijuu Dama w/ Rashomon.
-Dodging KN4's chakra arms.


Doesnt barley getting hit leave blood trails for this match up?
Why would it leave enough blood for Hidan to collect?

I fail to see this jutsu being a problem when he gets close, since the start up of the attack isnt that many snakes to be a factor. It just leaves Oro open to someone who can deal with Asuma CQC, along with avoiding 6 shadow stitches (better speed feats then those snakes).
Leaves him open? For what exactly? The time period "start up" of this jutsu and the formation of the wall of snakes is too quick a time period for Hidan to actually do anything. Obviously if Hidan is right in his face there will be no point in using the jutsu, but attack prevention technique, Shadow Clones or Fuuton Great Breakthrough are easily enough for Orochimaru to create distance between him and Hidan.

And 6 shadows having better speed feats than a wall of 10,000 snakes doesn't matter.

[ ]​
Not sure what you're showing me here. How does deflecting projectiles or whatever he's doing in this scan means he does the same to Orochimaru's snakes while actually locked in close combat with him?

Oro CQC is as good as Kakashi, which Hidan already matched without his metal cable benefiting his combat style.
Based on what is Kakashi w/ a Kunai equal to Orochimaru w/ Kusanagi and Snake Ninjutsu in CQC? Not even sure how you are comparing the two scenarios when one is pure Bukijutsu while the other is Bukijutsu in combination with Ninjutsu.

Futon and Raiton?
Fuuton drawing blood doesn't even make sense. Maybe he'll cough up blood but enough for Hidan to collect? No. Raiton? No, not unless Hidan is actually right in Oro's face when he begins to bleed. But considering it won't ever hit him in the first place there is not

I agree that this works out if Kakuzu uses it for back stabs. But Kakuzu's style with Hidan uses his jutsu head on (when the opponet is to focus on Hidan) so thats not working out in that scenario.
And how does this even matter? The opponent focused on Hidan doesn't change the fact that if Rashomon is summoned it'll intercept any incoming jutsu. Whether or not Kakuzu tries a back attack or not doesn't matter. Hidan is easily and quickly disposed of then Orochimaru takes care of Kakuzu.
 
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Brother Numpsay

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Now it makes sense why you dislike my post. Baseless and overrated claims along with overrating Orochimaru

they have no way of geting blood since hidan can't compete w/ snakes & swords that have much more priority than Nara hijutsu. and oro has shadow clones to cement his many tactical advantages in this respect.
Which is baseless as you cant provide any feats that enables him to own Hidan in CQC with those abilities. Then you have a premise where Orochimaru divide his chakra up, as clones has slower reaction then original, so thats easy target for Hidan to gain blood ending the match

kakuzu can't put a scratch on manda or yamata.
Which is baseless and overrating Oro once again. As the only thing you can argue taking is Katon, but needs Oral Rebith after. While Raiton still takes out both of these cats, something that has penetrated power than Bunta's dagger.


perhaps the only people it can't bisect are 3rd raikage & kakuzu, but kusanagi can pierce any in this manga. a sentient bijuu cloak acting as the literal manifestation of plot armor doesn't contradict that
LMAO and thats why your points arent taken serious.

oro methodically subjugates kakuzus 4 satellites then cuts the spaghetti-man down in cqc, while hidan runs around like a headless rooster
With zero feats of you backing this up.

Lel A casual swing of arm from 3 tails Naruto>>>>all of Kakuzu's arsenal combined
Except 3 Tail Naruto arm swing has no feats so you have no point. The only thing you could argue here is 4 tails shockwave repelling Katon and Katon only.
 

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Now it makes sense why you dislike my post. Baseless and overrated claims along with overrating Orochimaru



Which is baseless as you cant provide any feats that enables him to own Hidan in CQC with those abilities. Then you have a premise where Orochimaru divide his chakra up, as clones has slower reaction then original, so thats easy target for Hidan to gain blood ending the match



Which is baseless and overrating Oro once again. As the only thing you can argue taking is Katon, but needs Oral Rebith after. While Raiton still takes out both of these cats, something that has penetrated power than Bunta's dagger.




LMAO and thats why your points arent taken serious.



With zero feats of you backing this up.



Except 3 Tail Naruto arm swing has no feats so you have no point. The only thing you could argue here is 4 tails shockwave repelling Katon and Katon only.

done by physical strength. Bigger than anything Kakuzu has shown.
 

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Which again is baseless. So stop mentioning this



Blowing away a small area of small trees is bigger then Kakuzu's ninjutsu[ ]?
Chain of action indicate it was physical. Rasengan has never shown that type of damage and Naruto couldn't use tbb in 3 tails.
The explosion reaches about 2/3 height of the rashomons used by Orichimaru. Those trees Naruto destroyed are way larger than those dead trees Kakuzu fans like to wank over
That's nothing too big.
Naruto's shockwaves dwarfed the trees in the area, same as rashomons.
 

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Chain of action indicate it was physical. Rasengan has never shown that type of damage and Naruto couldn't use tbb in 3 tails.
The explosion reaches about 2/3 height of the rashomons used by Orichimaru. Those trees Naruto destroyed are way larger than those dead trees Kakuzu fans like to wank over

Naruto's shockwaves dwarfed the trees in the area, same as rashomons.
Those trees aren't that big. bottom right.

Kakuzu's jutsu engulfed those massive trees which are roughly 5 times taller than those other trees, and they were also more widespread. So his jutsu is easily bigger.

And no Rashomon gates were easily bigger as well, not even close.
 

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It's blunt force damage. Nothing more, nothing less.
Not convince Oro can block it with just his arms.

Don't compare a scenario where Hidan was a distraction and where they launched it from almost point blank range yet it was still dodged it for the most part. That's terrible when talking about speed feats. Orochimaru easily reacts.
Are you skipping around my point that this feat only was capable with Sharingan anticipation which Orochimaru lacks?

That's the only way KN3 would actually take off his arm. Not sure what you mean with the bold.
Lol no absolutely not. And KN3 absolutely does not have the feats to physically make that strike, making a crater around him. @Bold: [ ] look at the explosion. No way that was a physical strike. At least not by feats backing it up that it was.


Who said it was? Combining the fact that Orochimaru can get away from that to the face, and KN3's hit w/ just a missing arm, the attack that didn't damage Hidan isn't going to kill him on impact. Not a chance.
Except that isnt proof that he can take this jutsu. Since you already agree that KN1 attack power isnt near Futon then theres no reason to mention tanking that attack.

Then you mentioned KN3 where you have no evidence that KN3 attack was physical, even if it was (which it was clearly not), can only prove that the attack was only capable of landing directly towards Oro's arm. And that also isnt proof unless he actually tanked it.

Then you have the fact that Hidan defying the attacks nature doesnt mean Orochimaru can tank the jutsu. Not a chance.


Because it can't even scratch Hidan. :lol If you think Atsugai is strong enough to kill a snake stronger than Manda then by all means I'd love you to show me the feat that supports that.
That comment was talking about Katon+Futon combo.

2 bolts. 8 heads. Not to mention Orochimaru himself will remain unharmed even if the heads of his beast get pierced.
Didnt you argued not too long ago that multiple doesn't imply only capable of just 2 in the manga? 8 head = 8 bolts to the brain. Once Orochimaru comes out his next, along with blood exposed cause by the bolts used against Hydra.

Kakashi came from nowhere and intercepted it from close range. Orochimaru can merge with the ground using Attack Prevention Jutsu or he can use Hiding Like a Mole. Nowhere near the amount of effort is needed on his part to accomplish the same results Kakashi did.

Funny how you are asking this question when it literally has no speed feat that'd prevent Orochimaru from reacting. On the other hand here are Orochimaru's speed feats:


-Reacting to KN4's Bijuu Dama w/ Rashomon.
-Dodging KN4's chakra arms.
Question[ ]: Does this prove that Rin can intercept a Chidori blitz from the same range Kakashi attempted against that Mist ninja? I still dont understand that logic that someone taking the bullet, away from the scene, means they can also dodge it.

But yes I agree with your counters if Oro sees it charging, not when it actually is released.

@Bold: Exaggerate much? Though the only opponent we seen it against was Choji and Shiki, they still couldnt avoid the speed of the attack. And based on DB, lightning nature is easily faster then those 2 jutsu you mentioned. So Oro most def have to block it.

Why would it leave enough blood for Hidan to collect?
Really KG? Hidan jutsu needs droplet...

Leaves him open? For what exactly? The time period "start up" of this jutsu and the formation of the wall of snakes is too quick a time period for Hidan to actually do anything. Obviously if Hidan is right in his face there will be no point in using the jutsu, but attack prevention technique, Shadow Clones or Fuuton Great Breakthrough are easily enough for Orochimaru to create distance between him and Hidan.

And 6 shadows having better speed feats than a wall of 10,000 snakes doesn't matter.

Then Ill agree with the spacing your premised uses bar Shaodw Clones as clones end up benefiting Hidan here. And what happens Oro makes enough space here? None of these jutsu are going to put enough pressure for Hidan to get decapitated.

Not sure what you're showing me here. How does deflecting projectiles or whatever he's doing in this scan means he does the same to Orochimaru's snakes while actually locked in close combat with him?
Scan was illustrating being surrounded by snake hands is not an issue and that their heads get penetrated on contact. Killing them off and continuously pursuing Oro. Even better, using them as a platform.


Based on what is Kakashi w/ a Kunai equal to Orochimaru w/ Kusanagi and Snake Ninjutsu in CQC? Not even sure how you are comparing the two scenarios when one is pure Bukijutsu while the other is Bukijutsu in combination with Ninjutsu.
1st I just want to point that out that Kakashi=Oro. And DB stated Asuma is the best Close Quarters in Konoaha (comparing all Jonins and bar powers up obv). And that scenario already happened here via Asuma and Shiki's faster shadow, making it irrelevant to Hidan CQC skills.

Fuuton drawing blood doesn't even make sense. Maybe he'll cough up blood but enough for Hidan to collect? No. Raiton? No, not unless Hidan is actually right in Oro's face when he begins to bleed. But considering it won't ever hit him in the first place there is not
Addressed. Im actually surprise this actually matters to you on how much blood is needed for Hidan jutsu to work.

And how does this even matter? The opponent focused on Hidan doesn't change the fact that if Rashomon is summoned it'll intercept any incoming jutsu.
How does this scenario actually work? The Gates is not going to separate Hidan and Orochimaru, yet along Mask firing at point blank range. So how is it going inbetween them?

Chain of action indicate it was physical. Rasengan has never shown that type of damage and Naruto couldn't use tbb in 3 tails.
Nope no evidence. Naruto was using both chakra and physical attacks by chain of action. And the only feat capable of producing the attack between the 2 is chakra. So you dont have a point.

I delete some parts since Tosh covered it and not wasting time addressing.
 
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Nattana

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I can actually agree with this line of thinking. Though him taking out his sword is simply because it will help parry the pole even if he can't actually damage it. Maybe with enough strikes he'll be able to do something to Kakuzu.

Yeah, but that was Naruto as a 12 yr old kid. Not Kakuzu, who is >>>>>> That Naruto.
That was Naruto powered-up by Kyuubi chakra. The same Naruto who blocked and stopped a giant snake summon with his body. I see no reason FES should work differently on Naruto and Kakuzu. Because why actually?

or happens to Hidan and he gets neutralised for the whole battle, paralysed and disposed of.

He is literally useless here.
 
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