[Predictions] Naruto Manga 502 Discussion and 503 Predictions

[Itachi Sama]

Not particularly involved in the recent posts you have made but I want to know your actual opinion on Tobi controlling the kyuubi without using MS during the attack on konoha

I think you don't have to use it, but you need to have it.

 

[Sennin Jinchuuriki]

It could be that Madara before and when he fought the first couldn't use the Space/Time jutsu. After all we heard about throughout the manga, people knew alot about Madara but not once did they say he had this power. Possibly, he can only use this Space/Time jutsu when he's in this form, as he said, "I'm just s shell of my former self". That's probably how Naruto or someone else can defeat him later, once he gains back his powers and former body, he probably might not be able to use Space/Time jutsus anymore.

Also, if your thinking of it that way, Izanagi, when used at the right time, will allow you to live at the cost of 1 sharingan eye. Danzou showed us perfectly well on the jutsu. It could be possible Madara used it at the wrong time, maybe not soon enough? So he died, and Izanagi failed to bring him back completely. That kinda seems like a ghost, or aka "shell of his former self". That could be why barrier and such have no affect on him when he doesn't want to be noticed/hit. He stuck in a parrallel universe between dead and alive. That could also explain why he's still alive after all these years. He's not techiniquelly alive so he can't die again, but then Izanagi might have brought back an imprint, image to say.

Who knows, hopefully we'll find out soon though! >.<

Interesting theory but that's just a bit too far fetched

 

[silenceofthelambs]

Not particularly involved in the recent posts you have made but I want to know your actual opinion on Tobi controlling the kyuubi without using MS during the attack on konoha

Apparently, as Itachi says, a Mangekyou Sharingan is needed to control the Nine-Tailed Fox. It is one of the rewards you receive before your eyes lose the light forever, but in chapter 501, an interesting contradiction occurs in the story. Madara, upon extracting the Nine-Tails from Kushina, is seen with a regular Sharingan eye removing the beast from its host. What could be the reason for this?

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Itachi does indeed say a Mangekyou Sharingan is required to exert control over the Nine-Tails, but then goes on to say Madara's eyes tamed the fox and controlled it "like a pet," the only person in history to learn "the Sharingan's final secret."

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After taking his brother's, Izuna's, eyes Itachi mentions the transplant gave birth to a completely new eye technique. Could this be how Madara released the Nine-Tails from Kushina and summoned it to attack Konoha, still keeping the fox under his control?

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Itachi says that Madara, despite losing the battle for control of Konoha to Hashirama Senju, still retains his eyes, and their awesome power. According to this, Madara never used Izanagi (that is, if he knew it) because then his "eyes, and their power" wouldn't really be alive and well, now would they?

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In a way, Itachi contradicts himself here. He says that Madara's powers remain, yet is only a mere shell of his former self. So, which one does he want us to believe? That Madara is a powerless shell of his former self, or that he still holds some of his former power?

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Apparently Madara wants us to think that he really doesn't have any more power. But by declaring war, it shows that, in fact, he does. Someone of Madara's intelligence wouldn't rush headlong into a war without having some shred of power themselves. He might have the power of the seven tailed beasts, but can he actually utilize their strength? The so-called "ninja alliance" seems to think so.

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Mifune, at the same time, says that it is a risk for Madara to be using the power of the seven tailed beasts this way. "If it were no risk, he would not have gone to the trouble of coming here and attempting to negotiate." Is that what he wants everyone to believe? To make himself look weaker than he really is?

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Danzo tells his two subordinates, "we have no idea what [Madara] can really do;" what does he mean by that? While Madara's space-time ninjutsu, on a level greater than that of both Tobirama and Minato, is an extraordinary ability, I have a feeling that Danzo is referring to something more. He would not be so cautious if Madara did not have any power himself.

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Torune says here that "[Madara] just pretended to attack;" well, if Madara is an expert at being able to do this, could he be feigning the amount of power he really has?

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Even though the only technique Madara has used in front of Minato is his space-time ninjutsu, Minato still thinks him as an "incredible" Shinobi who can "control the Kyuubi," and wields a space-time ninjutsu on a level better than the Second Hokage or his own.

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While Minato analyzes Madara's powers and abilities, he says that the only ninja he knows capable of accomplishing this is Madara Uchiha. The way Minato and Itachi talk about Madara makes it seem like he does in fact have some of his previous power. If Madara were as powerless as he lets on, would he directly confront the Fourth Hokage and begin a fight?

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Now, to the heart of my theory. Presenting all the evidence I above, my conclusion is this: Madara did not become completely powerless after his loss to Hashirama Senju. What I think happened is, Madara, instead of sacrificing his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, chose to be severely wounded (almost the point of death, so much so that even Hashirama thought he had died), yet something saved him from the cusp of death: his sinister chakra, which has served as his "stubborn refusal to die."

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The Nine-Tailed Fox recognizes Madara's chakra as we would instantly recognize colors, claiming it to be more potent than its own, and Madara himself gives a valid reason for the confusing concept of how he has managed to survive so long.

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Madara says the longevity of his chakra has been the reason he has managed to survive so long, and to repeat my theory again, I think that Madara chose to be heavily wounded (becoming an empty shell of his former self) instead of give up his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan for Izanagi, and this is how he was able to control the Nine-Tailed Fox in chapter 501 and release it from Kushina's stomach. Besides Itachi's contradiction of his own words, nothing in the manga states that Madara's eyes, and their power, do not remain "alive and well." At this stage, everything seems to point towards the fact that a portion of Madara's powers have indeed remained for all this time.

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Madara wants to revive the Jubi, but first he will need the strength necessary to fuse all nine tailed beasts to create the Jubi once more. Madara claims the power of all the beasts will "strengthen his eyes," implying that his eyes already have some of that power from the past. Madara does not say the collective power of the beasts will "revive" his eyes; no, he says they will "strengthen" them.

Having said all this, let me reiterate everything one more time. Madara has his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan (perhaps a weakened form of it), explaining how he was able to control the Nine-Tails, while also fitting in to his strategy making himself weaker than he really appears, as he does in battles. Madara is the leader of Akatsuki; does this not require some form of authority, to keep all those powerful ninja from overthrowing the current head?

It is not clear as to how much, but in my mind Madara definitely has some portion of the power from his fight with the First Hokage. And during some point in the manga, Madara will reveal exactly how powerful he is to the Naruto world.

 

[OopsWrongHole]

Apparently, as Itachi says, a Mangekyou Sharingan is needed to control the Nine-Tailed Fox. It is one of the rewards you receive before your eyes lose the light forever, but in chapter 501, an interesting contradiction occurs in the story. Madara, upon extracting the Nine-Tails from Kushina, is seen with a regular Sharingan eye removing the beast from its host. What could be the reason for this?

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Itachi does indeed say a Mangekyou Sharingan is required to exert control over the Nine-Tails, but then goes on to say Madara's eyes tamed the fox and controlled it "like a pet," the only person in history to learn "the Sharingan's final secret."

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After taking his brother's, Izuna's, eyes Itachi mentions the transplant gave birth to a completely new eye technique. Could this be how Madara released the Nine-Tails from Kushina and summoned it to attack Konoha, still keeping the fox under his control?

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Itachi says that Madara, despite losing the battle for control of Konoha to Hashirama Senju, still retains his eyes, and their awesome power. According to this, Madara never used Izanagi (that is, if he knew it) because then his "eyes, and their power" wouldn't really be alive and well, now would they?

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In a way, Itachi contradicts himself here. He says that Madara's powers remain, yet is only a mere shell of his former self. So, which one does he want us to believe? That Madara is a powerless shell of his former self, or that he still holds some of his former power?

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Apparently Madara wants us to think that he really doesn't have any more power. But by declaring war, it shows that, in fact, he does. Someone of Madara's intelligence wouldn't rush headlong into a war without having some shred of power themselves. He might have the power of the seven tailed beasts, but can he actually utilize their strength? The so-called "ninja alliance" seems to think so.

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Mifune, at the same time, says that it is a risk for Madara to be using the power of the seven tailed beasts this way. "If it were no risk, he would not have gone to the trouble of coming here and attempting to negotiate." Is that what he wants everyone to believe? To make himself look weaker than he really is?

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Danzo tells his two subordinates, "we have no idea what [Madara] can really do;" what does he mean by that? While Madara's space-time ninjutsu, on a level greater than that of both Tobirama and Minato, is an extraordinary ability, I have a feeling that Danzo is referring to something more. He would not be so cautious if Madara did not have any power himself.

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Torune says here that "[Madara] just pretended to attack;" well, if Madara is an expert at being able to do this, could he be feigning the amount of power he really has?

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Even though the only technique Madara has used in front of Minato is his space-time ninjutsu, Minato still thinks him as an "incredible" Shinobi who can "control the Kyuubi," and wields a space-time ninjutsu on a level better than the Second Hokage or his own.

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While Minato analyzes Madara's powers and abilities, he says that the only ninja he knows capable of accomplishing this is Madara Uchiha. The way Minato and Itachi talk about Madara makes it seem like he does in fact have some of his previous power. If Madara were as powerless as he lets on, would he directly confront the Fourth Hokage and begin a fight?

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Now, to the heart of my theory. Presenting all the evidence I above, my conclusion is this: Madara did not become completely powerless after his loss to Hashirama Senju. What I think happened is, Madara, instead of sacrificing his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, chose to be severely wounded (almost the point of death, so much so that even Hashirama thought he had died), yet something saved him from the cusp of death: his sinister chakra, which has served as his "stubborn refusal to die."

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The Nine-Tailed Fox recognizes Madara's chakra as we would instantly recognize colors, claiming it to be more potent than its own, and Madara himself gives a valid reason for the confusing concept of how he has managed to survive so long.

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Madara says the longevity of his chakra has been the reason he has managed to survive so long, and to repeat my theory again, I think that Madara chose to be heavily wounded (becoming an empty shell of his former self) instead of give up his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan for Izanagi, and this is how he was able to control the Nine-Tailed Fox in chapter 501 and release it from Kushina's stomach. Besides Itachi's contradiction of his own words, nothing in the manga states that Madara's eyes, and their power, do not remain "alive and well." At this stage, everything seems to point towards the fact that a portion of Madara's powers have indeed remained for all this time.

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Madara wants to revive the Jubi, but first he will need the strength necessary to fuse all nine tailed beasts to create the Jubi once more. Madara claims the power of all the beasts will "strengthen his eyes," implying that his eyes already have some of that power from the past. Madara does not say the collective power of the beasts will "revive" his eyes; no, he says they will "strengthen" them.

Having said all this, let me reiterate everything one more time. Madara has his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan (perhaps a weakened form of it), explaining how he was able to control the Nine-Tails, while also fitting in to his strategy making himself weaker than he really appears, as he does in battles. Madara is the leader of Akatsuki; does this not require some form of authority, to keep all those powerful ninja from overthrowing the current head?

It is not clear as to how much, but in my mind Madara definitely has some portion of the power from his fight with the First Hokage. And during some point in the manga, Madara will reveal exactly how powerful he is to the Naruto world.

You know your theories seem... pretty damn clear, thanks for that, I appreciate it alotxd

 

[silenceofthelambs]

You know your theories seem... pretty damn clear, thanks for that, I appreciate it alotxd

No problem at all. I'm only glad to help; if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I've been reading the manga for quite some time, so I'm pretty knowledgeable about the story. I suppose it sucks us all in into its twists and suspense and gigantic battles.

 

[Scorps]

Apparently, (....) Naruto world.

I agree with you. Everything seems to point to the fact that Madara does retain his full abilities (jutsus, for example), but somehow seems weaken and unable to use them fully.

There's something that I've been thinking. Many people, including myself, have been very suspicious of the fact that Madara's left eye isn't shown at all. That's why many believed he sacrificied it to use Izanagi in order to save himself. However, I have two different theories about that.

1st -> We all know that the space-manipulation jutsu that Madara uses is somehow related to his right eye (the one that's visible).

Why? Because everytime he sends something or someone to his other dimension, he uses it. So his whole space manipulation ability comes from that eye. Also, I don't believe that it's a Mangekyō Sharingan ability, since we have yet to see it active in the current time.

How can this be, you ask? Simple, every sharingan user has the "usual" Uchiha techniques granted by the sharingan. However, in some individuals, some unique abilities apear, even if they don't awaken the Mangekyō Sharingan. It's the case of the danzo's right eye, who had an unique ability that his original owner hadand yet, was a regular sharingan. I believe that Madara's unique ability is that space manipulation.

And why don't we see his left eye? Remember that both Kakashi and Itachi had to close their eyes to concentrate chakra in order to release their most powerfull techniques? They had to "charge" their eyes. In itachi it's very visible, since he closed only the eye he was going to use to release Amaterasu (for example) keeping the other eye open. So, Madara can be keeping his left eye hidden, because he could have it closed to be "charging" it to perform some powerfull technique, for example, the genjutsu he wishes to reflect uppon the world, requiring years of chakra gathering and concentration. Or another technique, the one that awaken with his Mangekyō Sharingan, the real secret of the Sharingan.

2nd-> well, this is more farfetched.

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remember this? where Madara says he has to gather the rinnengan before the war starts? Well, what if his left eye isn't a Sharingan anymore? What if he's planning to swap it with a rinnegan? If his left eye was damaged, not lost, but weakened (or even lost, who knows?), he would definitly hide it. And if that were the case, he could then chose to replace it by the rinnegan when the right time came. So he would need to gather them, so that they were not decay and disapear with nagato's body. And he states that he likes to stockpille strong eyes

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why? I believe there's a chance he's trying to replace his lost left eye.

However, it's all conjectures based on my observation. What do you think? Am I on to something? lol

 

[Scorps]

Perhaps Kakashi's Mangekyou is different because he had to develop it, not unlock it like members of the Uchiha clan do. Also, we don't know for certain if Madara's space-time ninjutsu is a result of his Mangekyou Sharingan being awakened.

While most manga chapters that have information on the Mangekyou and its abilities only suggest certain things here and there, my opinion is based on the fact that three sources of information say what I have been trying to point out all this time.

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If it weren't for these pieces of information above, then perhaps my opinion would swing the other way. But this is why I am led to believe Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, and Susanoo are all abilities granted to an Uchiha who awakens his Mangekyou Sharingan.

Kakashi has the Mangekyō Sharingan because he saw someone very close to him die (possibly Rin, as he states when he dies that he's going to see her again, as well as obito), it can't be developed.

Every Mangekyō Sharingan abilities are unique except for Susano, that Madara renders that is very rare for a uchiha to awankened it, so one must assume that other uchihas have used it. That's why Kakashi has Kamui, Itachi had Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, and Sasuke has Amaterasu and the ability to control its flames completly.

Itachi didn't implant Mangekyō Sharingan in sasuke. Sasuke's Mangekyō Sharingan apeared as a result of seeing the one closest to him die: his brother itachi. Itachi only implanted the technique Amaterasu. Tsukuyomi is yet to be seen in sasuke. He seems able to cast powerfull gentujutsu (albeit not as powerfull as itachis) however, they're not Tsukuomi. Danzo states that his Genjutsu is inferior to Itachi's tsukuyomi, making me think that sasuke hadn't cast a tsukuoymi but a different ("normal") genjutsu, powered by the Mangekyō Sharingan.

 

[skgb75]

Right... something seems od... may be a minor thing... But in the flash back with madara and itachi... (before Uchiha was wiped out) Madara had much longer hair... like his old self... just with the mask... This one however.. he has short hair...

Plus Madara said "oh I wouldn't say that" about Madara being dead... I have now a strong feeling... tobi/madara are possibly 2 seperate ppl... Something is well off!

hmmm could we be dealing with an imitator??

 

[skgb75]

Kakashi has the Mangekyō Sharingan because he saw someone very close to him die (possibly Rin, as he states when he dies that he's going to see her again, as well as obito), it can't be developed.

Every Mangekyō Sharingan abilities are unique except for Susano, that Madara renders that is very rare for a uchiha to awankened it, so one must assume that other uchihas have used it. That's why Kakashi has Kamui, Itachi had Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, and Sasuke has Amaterasu and the ability to control its flames completly.

Itachi didn't implant Mangekyō Sharingan in sasuke. Sasuke's Mangekyō Sharingan apeared as a result of seeing the one closest to him die: his brother itachi. Itachi only implanted the technique Amaterasu. Tsukuyomi is yet to be seen in sasuke. He seems able to cast powerfull gentujutsu (albeit not as powerfull as itachis) however, they're not Tsukuomi. Danzo states that his Genjutsu is inferior to Itachi's tsukuyomi, making me think that sasuke hadn't cast a tsukuoymi but a different ("normal") genjutsu, powered by the Mangekyō Sharingan.

actually sasuke used Tsukuyomi when he fought killer bee....go back to that chapter and you will see

 

[skgb75]

Anko only told Sarutobi that she wished the Fourth would still be alive to fight Orochimaru. Sarutobi reminded her that Minato had died long ago to defend the village from the Nine-Tailed Fox. Also, there seems to be several conflicting statements in the manga as to who is actually the strongest Hokage. Characters have put forth the First, Second, and Third as the strongest, but I don't think the Fourth has been mentioned as the most powerful of the Hokages. Actually, according to what the latest chapter has given us, Minato becomes the second weakest of all Hokages. It turns out his Flying Thunder God technique bares some similarity to the Second's teleportation technique, so that bumps the Second Hokage up from his perch drastically.

Below is why I think the Fourth Hokage is not the strongest Hokage, as many believe.

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That ANBU clearly says the First and Second Hokage were the strongest Shinobi Konoha ever had, and created Konoha as we know it now. That to me just seems like plain evidence that the first two Hokages were in fact the most powerful ninja Konoha ever had, not the Fourth.

ugh lol thats all they said that means nothing........"best" is always used throuout the manga to describe high calibur ninja like kages.....but to be honest why does any of this matter when we all know naruto will be the greatest and strongest ever

 

[OopsWrongHole]

No problem at all. I'm only glad to help; if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I've been reading the manga for quite some time, so I'm pretty knowledgeable about the story. I suppose it sucks us all in into its twists and suspense and gigantic battles.

Ah I shall ask you all my questions when they appear, you do seem extremely knowledgeable and seem to have quite a bit of intelligence and actually make sense

 

[Scorps]

actually sasuke used Tsukuyomi when he fought killer bee....go back to that chapter and you will see

It's nothing like itachi's technique, so I assumed it was a "normal" genjutsu. Tsukuyomi has the ability to control time and torture the target at will. That is its special trait, without it, it would be just a genjutsu. I haven't seen yet a statement that he can use it. Even Madara states "it's no mach for itachi's tsukuyomi"

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so we can assume that sasuke's genjutsu is another technique.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

It's nothing like itachi's technique, so I assumed it was a "normal" genjutsu. Tsukuyomi has the ability to control time and torture the target at will. That is its special trait, without it, it would be just a genjutsu. I haven't seen yet a statement that he can use it. Even Madara states "it's no mach for itachi's tsukuyomi"

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so we can assume that sasuke's genjutsu is another technique.

Then why would he use his Mangekyo for it when he could use his normal Sharingan? It's simple. Sasuke isn't as talented as Itachi is as Tsukiyomi, but is more talented at Amaterasu.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

I agree with you. Everything seems to point to the fact that Madara does retain his full abilities (jutsus, for example), but somehow seems weaken and unable to use them fully.

There's something that I've been thinking. Many people, including myself, have been very suspicious of the fact that Madara's left eye isn't shown at all. That's why many believed he sacrificied it to use Izanagi in order to save himself. However, I have two different theories about that.

1st -> We all know that the space-manipulation jutsu that Madara uses is somehow related to his right eye (the one that's visible).

Why? Because everytime he sends something or someone to his other dimension, he uses it. So his whole space manipulation ability comes from that eye. Also, I don't believe that it's a Mangekyō Sharingan ability, since we have yet to see it active in the current time.

How can this be, you ask? Simple, every sharingan user has the "usual" Uchiha techniques granted by the sharingan. However, in some individuals, some unique abilities apear, even if they don't awaken the Mangekyō Sharingan. It's the case of the danzo's right eye, who had an unique ability that his original owner hadand yet, was a regular sharingan. I believe that Madara's unique ability is that space manipulation.

And why don't we see his left eye? Remember that both Kakashi and Itachi had to close their eyes to concentrate chakra in order to release their most powerfull techniques? They had to "charge" their eyes. In itachi it's very visible, since he closed only the eye he was going to use to release Amaterasu (for example) keeping the other eye open. So, Madara can be keeping his left eye hidden, because he could have it closed to be "charging" it to perform some powerfull technique, for example, the genjutsu he wishes to reflect uppon the world, requiring years of chakra gathering and concentration. Or another technique, the one that awaken with his Mangekyō Sharingan, the real secret of the Sharingan.

2nd-> well, this is more farfetched.

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remember this? where Madara says he has to gather the rinnengan before the war starts? Well, what if his left eye isn't a Sharingan anymore? What if he's planning to swap it with a rinnegan? If his left eye was damaged, not lost, but weakened (or even lost, who knows?), he would definitly hide it. And if that were the case, he could then chose to replace it by the rinnegan when the right time came. So he would need to gather them, so that they were not decay and disapear with nagato's body. And he states that he likes to stockpille strong eyes

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why? I believe there's a chance he's trying to replace his lost left eye.

However, it's all conjectures based on my observation. What do you think? Am I on to something? lol

I think your theory sounds interesting and possible, but considering Madara gained a perfect Mangekyou Sharingan, would he really be willing to sacrifice it for the sake of one Izanagi?

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While Madara says fate would have it that he and Hashirama's paths cross, during their battle it just does not seem likely that Madara would sacrifice his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan to simply survive his fight with Hashirama, this all aside from the extensive injuries he received. To me, it just sounds like Madara decided to be heavily wounded and take the blows instead of giving up his eye.

For what reason he is collecting the Rinnegan I do not know, but nothing in the manga suggests that Madara wants to implant the Rinnegan into his own eye. Besides, each time we've seen Madara's Sharingan briefly showing from his mask, it is a regular, three-tomoe Sharingan, but it is strange because once a person awakens their Mangekyou Sharingan, it does not revert back to a regular one.

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While Madara might be a "mere shell of [his] former self," I believe he still has some power from the past. He is weakened, yet can use some of the abilities he once held before and during his fight with the First Hokage. I agree with you when you say Madara's space-time ninjutsu is not a result of his Mangekyou Sharingan; whatever sort of Sharingan Madara might possess in the present, he does not always activate it simply to teleport himself to a location at will.

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Madara might be gathering power in his left eye, because only two things in the manga have suggested that eye is still functioning.

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Notice how in both cases, Madara's eyes are referred to in the plural. Whatever Madara plans to unleash in his left eye, two things hint that the left eye still does work, rather than being blind or inactive. I think that Madara might be collecting the Rinnegan, but not to transplant into his own eyes; because since those two pieces of evidence above refer to Madara's eyes in the plural, then we can assume that both eyes are still "alive and well," as stated by Itachi.

However, Madara might just be using the Rinnegan for another purpose.

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Madara plans to link Sasuke with Gedo Mazo, correct? Well, here is another small theory: when Madara transplanted Sasuke's eyes to Itachi, this meant that Sasuke got his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, didn't he? Well, if indeed Madara did use Izanagi against the First Hokage (which I doubt), does Madara intend to take Sasuke's eyes in the future, thereby strengthening his own in the future?

By doing this, Madara would get his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan fully restored, while giving Sasuke the Rinnegan (which seems fairly dubious to me, though anything is possible). Madara has mentioned the transplant of Itachi's eyes into Sasuke for quite some time now. Does the summoner of Gedo Mazo need a Rinnegan, which Sasuke, the new "pawn" of it, might receive?

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There are many questions, but no answers. And it will be a while before the manga addresses everything we have to ask. Two points, with all I have written, now emerge: one, Madara is not as weak as everyone perceives him to be, and two, Madara might be using the Rinnegan not for his own purpose, but for someone else's entirely - Sasuke Uchiha. The final link between himself and Gedo Mazo - might just need a Rinnegan. And that is exactly what Madara is going to give him.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

Ah I shall ask you all my questions when they appear, you do seem extremely knowledgeable and seem to have quite a bit of intelligence and actually make sense

Thank you, and I will be ready.

 

[Scorps]

For what reason he is collecting the Rinnegan I do not know, but nothing in the manga suggests that Madara wants to implant the Rinnegan into his own eye. Besides, each time we've seen Madara's Sharingan briefly showing from his mask, it is a regular, three-tomoe Sharingan, but it is strange because once a person awakens their Mangekyou Sharingan, it does not revert back to a regular one.

Yes, it does. Mangeykou Sharingan is a state of the sharingan that needs activation. Every character shown so far with it, only activate it when needed, reverting them to normal tree tomoe sharingan when not needed. So, Madara can have his left eye in mangeykou sharingan (thus activated), closed, consuming a lot of chakra for some sort of technique, preparing for something, letting him only activate the basic sharingan in his right eye.

When itachi fought with sasuke, he's seen having the mangeyoukou activated only in one eye and having the sharingan 3 tomoe in the other. Even having only one eye reverting to a normal eye, and having a Mangeykou in the other.

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Other option is that his left eye possesses an ability that can't be turned off. So, like kakashi can't disable his sharingan and has to cover it up and keep it closed to keep it "inactive", maybe Madara has some ability in his left eye that is always active, and the only way to conserve chakra is to keep the eye closed.

But I still think he is gathering chakra to perform some sort of technique.

 

[Scorps]

Oh and still about susano, there's something in the manga that sugests that this technique isn't mangeykou sharingan bound.

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Itachi hasn't got his mangeykou sharingan activated and is using susano. As Madara stated that its rare that someone awakens susano, maybe it has nothing to do with mangeykou. But like mangeykou, maybe it requires some strong emotion to awaken it. It seems very connected to sasukes emotions.

 

[Michael92]

Damn some really interesting theories are going around on this thread, nice work everyone!

Anyway, everything about this chapter is already said as i can see, and it just looks like the Hokages are much stronger than they might have seem. First Harashima and Minato, but now Tobirama too?:O

Can`t wait for next week`s chapter

 

[HokagePein]

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is that SS Goku vs Tobi on the top left picture or 4th hokage ???? =)

 

[minatoisagod]

Apparently, as Itachi says, a Mangekyou Sharingan is needed to control the Nine-Tailed Fox. It is one of the rewards you receive before your eyes lose the light forever, but in chapter 501, an interesting contradiction occurs in the story. Madara, upon extracting the Nine-Tails from Kushina, is seen with a regular Sharingan eye removing the beast from its host. What could be the reason for this?

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Itachi does indeed say a Mangekyou Sharingan is required to exert control over the Nine-Tails, but then goes on to say Madara's eyes tamed the fox and controlled it "like a pet," the only person in history to learn "the Sharingan's final secret."

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After taking his brother's, Izuna's, eyes Itachi mentions the transplant gave birth to a completely new eye technique. Could this be how Madara released the Nine-Tails from Kushina and summoned it to attack Konoha, still keeping the fox under his control?

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Itachi says that Madara, despite losing the battle for control of Konoha to Hashirama Senju, still retains his eyes, and their awesome power. According to this, Madara never used Izanagi (that is, if he knew it) because then his "eyes, and their power" wouldn't really be alive and well, now would they?

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In a way, Itachi contradicts himself here. He says that Madara's powers remain, yet is only a mere shell of his former self. So, which one does he want us to believe? That Madara is a powerless shell of his former self, or that he still holds some of his former power?

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Apparently Madara wants us to think that he really doesn't have any more power. But by declaring war, it shows that, in fact, he does. Someone of Madara's intelligence wouldn't rush headlong into a war without having some shred of power themselves. He might have the power of the seven tailed beasts, but can he actually utilize their strength? The so-called "ninja alliance" seems to think so.

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Mifune, at the same time, says that it is a risk for Madara to be using the power of the seven tailed beasts this way. "If it were no risk, he would not have gone to the trouble of coming here and attempting to negotiate." Is that what he wants everyone to believe? To make himself look weaker than he really is?

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Danzo tells his two subordinates, "we have no idea what [Madara] can really do;" what does he mean by that? While Madara's space-time ninjutsu, on a level greater than that of both Tobirama and Minato, is an extraordinary ability, I have a feeling that Danzo is referring to something more. He would not be so cautious if Madara did not have any power himself.

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Torune says here that "[Madara] just pretended to attack;" well, if Madara is an expert at being able to do this, could he be feigning the amount of power he really has?

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Even though the only technique Madara has used in front of Minato is his space-time ninjutsu, Minato still thinks him as an "incredible" Shinobi who can "control the Kyuubi," and wields a space-time ninjutsu on a level better than the Second Hokage or his own.

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While Minato analyzes Madara's powers and abilities, he says that the only ninja he knows capable of accomplishing this is Madara Uchiha. The way Minato and Itachi talk about Madara makes it seem like he does in fact have some of his previous power. If Madara were as powerless as he lets on, would he directly confront the Fourth Hokage and begin a fight?

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Now, to the heart of my theory. Presenting all the evidence I above, my conclusion is this: Madara did not become completely powerless after his loss to Hashirama Senju. What I think happened is, Madara, instead of sacrificing his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, chose to be severely wounded (almost the point of death, so much so that even Hashirama thought he had died), yet something saved him from the cusp of death: his sinister chakra, which has served as his "stubborn refusal to die."

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The Nine-Tailed Fox recognizes Madara's chakra as we would instantly recognize colors, claiming it to be more potent than its own, and Madara himself gives a valid reason for the confusing concept of how he has managed to survive so long.

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Madara says the longevity of his chakra has been the reason he has managed to survive so long, and to repeat my theory again, I think that Madara chose to be heavily wounded (becoming an empty shell of his former self) instead of give up his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan for Izanagi, and this is how he was able to control the Nine-Tailed Fox in chapter 501 and release it from Kushina's stomach. Besides Itachi's contradiction of his own words, nothing in the manga states that Madara's eyes, and their power, do not remain "alive and well." At this stage, everything seems to point towards the fact that a portion of Madara's powers have indeed remained for all this time.

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Madara wants to revive the Jubi, but first he will need the strength necessary to fuse all nine tailed beasts to create the Jubi once more. Madara claims the power of all the beasts will "strengthen his eyes," implying that his eyes already have some of that power from the past. Madara does not say the collective power of the beasts will "revive" his eyes; no, he says they will "strengthen" them.

Having said all this, let me reiterate everything one more time. Madara has his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan (perhaps a weakened form of it), explaining how he was able to control the Nine-Tails, while also fitting in to his strategy making himself weaker than he really appears, as he does in battles. Madara is the leader of Akatsuki; does this not require some form of authority, to keep all those powerful ninja from overthrowing the current head?

It is not clear as to how much, but in my mind Madara definitely has some portion of the power from his fight with the First Hokage. And during some point in the manga, Madara will reveal exactly how powerful he is to the Naruto world.

this is an interesting theory if it comes true then kudos to you man. But i just wonder why he wants the pain's eyes if the 10 tails will strengthen his