Senjus are not useless without mokuton so Uchihas are not useless without their eyes

[KingHashirama]

Wrong, Senju were known and feared long before hashirama and tobirama were born. You have no proof that he used forbidden jutsu to beat izuna, you just keep making assumptions.

Senju>uchiha this is a fact written by the writer himself.

@bold, eh I disagree with that bro.

Kishimoto through the manga and databook made it kind of clear that the Senju clan had become the superior force under Hashirama's reign, since he started uniting all the groups that had senju blood.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

A senju without wood style is a lot more useful than an Uchiha without eyes because only one Senju was seen to have it while sharingan was almost common yet Senju were seen to be superior and still had people like Tobirama to make edo tensei, shadow clones & ftg.

That's like Tobirama compared to the rest of the Senju clan. He was the only one to get closer to his brother without mokuton after inventing all these power forbidden techniques. Minato became well known and powerful just by improving one of Tobirama's techniques. I agree that some like Tobirama an Uchiha with like a mangekyo sharingan will have to beat the likes of him but the rest didn't always go so likely.

 

[KingHashirama]

That's like Tobirama compared to the rest of the Senju clan. He was the only one to get closer to his brother without mokuton after inventing all these power forbidden techniques. Minato became well known and powerful just by improving one of Tobirama's techniques. I agree that some like Tobirama an Uchiha with like a mangekyo sharingan will have to beat the likes of him but the rest didn't always go so likely.

Tobirama wasn't close to his brother..

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

That's like Tobirama compared to the rest of the Senju clan. He was the only one to get closer to his brother without mokuton after inventing all these power forbidden techniques. Minato became well known and powerful just by improving one of Tobirama's techniques. I agree that some like Tobirama an Uchiha with like a mangekyo sharingan will have to beat the likes of him but the rest didn't always go so likely.

The rest were superior to tge rest of the Uchiha despite the amount that had 3T or potentially MS. What does that tell you?

Him and his brother restricted these techs themselves.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

The rest were superior to tge rest of the Uchiha despite the amount that had 3T or potentially MS. What does that tell you?

Him and his brother restricted these techs themselves.

Well no, not all Uchihas had sharingans at the time too. There was no MS as a stated earlier because Madara and Izuna were the first Uchihas to awaken the mangekyo sharingan. No Senju ever restricted themselves, they developed as time progressed. They were at war so there is no such thing as holding back, especially when Tobirama killed Izuna with a fatal wound.

Tobirama wasn't close to his brother..

Yes he was. When Madara and Izuna had the mangekyo sharingan.

 

[KingHashirama]

Well no, not all Uchihas had sharingans at the time too. There was no MS as a stated earlier because Madara and Izuna were the first Uchihas to awaken the mangekyo sharingan. No Senju ever restricted themselves, they developed as time progressed. They were at war so there is no such thing as holding back, especially when Tobirama killed Izuna with a fatal wound.

Yes he was. When Madara and Izuna had the mangekyo sharingan.

Never was.. Madara/Izuna being close to each other, doesn't mean Hashirama/Tobirama being close to each other.

Hashirama was the strongest out of them as a kid, and as an adult..

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Never was.. Madara/Izuna being close to each other, doesn't mean Hashirama/Tobirama being close to each other.

Hashirama was the strongest out of them as a kid, and as an adult..

No they were close as for Hashirama hadn't gain the power to kill Madara then. It all changed when he obtained sagemode.

 

[LoZelda101]

The only retard here is you, you obviously are unable to grasp the point of the analogy. FTG is tobirama's own skill not power from someone/somewhere else. You can try to justify your silly beliefs anyhow you want any rational person knows your just an idiot with poor trolling skills. Why don't you make an uchiha wank thread next time.

"FTG is tobirama's own skill not power from someone else"

You just keep making yourself dumber per post. lol

 

[Gerkak]

"FTG is tobirama's own skill not power from someone else"

You just keep making yourself dumber per post. lol

Wow not only are you an idiot, you can't read too.

 

[Meowazziel]

I think that your title already started to make things a bit difficult.

Your title sounds as if you mean to say ''Senju are not useless without Mokuton, so (therefore) Uchiha are not useless without sharingan''.
Due to the ''so'' word you put in between.

This comparision and reasoning is incorrect, due to comparing Sharingan to Mokuton.
Uchiha useless without eyes=not the same as Senju useless without Mokuton.
Besides both arent true either. They are not useless without it.

Senju were known for their skill in all jutsu areas.
Uchiha were known for the sharingan.
Not all Uchiha unlocked sharingan, but the Senju probably didnt have the same lvl of skill in all jutsu areas either.
That would be a more fair comparision I think.

Mokuton and EMS are more comparable. Although unlocking Mokuton naturally is a tad more rare.
Besides EMS requires implant.

However throughout the thread I understand that you just want to make the point that an Uchiha,
can still be a strong Shinobi, even before or without unlocking sharingan.
Which is something that can be indeed true.

However not because of the comparison that you make about sharingan and Mokuton.

No they were close as for Hashirama hadn't gain the power to kill Madara then. It all changed when he obtained sagemode.

As my earlier link showed, Madara as a kid says that Hashirama is stronger than him.

"FTG is tobirama's own skill not power from someone else"

You just keep making yourself dumber per post. lol

How does he make himself dumber?
Besides you didnt even know how he got FTG.

Tobirama invented FTG.
Meaning its his own skill, that he invented.
He used his abilities, creativity, intelligence, talent, chakra, to invent and use that ability.

It doesnt seem to be easy to use, as Minato's guards needed 4 people working together, to use it, whereas Minato and Tobirama can do it on their own.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

ofc they aren't useless without it. The clan was genius. Sasuke manhandled two chunins who made a name out of themselves straight out of the academy. Anyone who says uchiha are garbo without sharingan are just trolls tbh.

Wow he beat some weak nobody but when he met a person was some rank HE GOT FOLDED where is all that genius when Lee was busting him in the mouth

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

Well no, not all Uchihas had sharingans at the time too. There was no MS as a stated earlier because Madara and Izuna were the first Uchihas to awaken the mangekyo sharingan. No Senju ever restricted themselves, they developed as time progressed. They were at war so there is no such thing as holding back, especially when Tobirama killed Izuna with a fatal wound.

Yes he was. When Madara and Izuna had the mangekyo sharingan.

Uchihas were never shown to all have sharingan as everyone knows and as I've already said. BZ said before that there were tonnes of generations of Indra descendents he failed to corrupt. We just talked about Hashi & Tobirama declaring his jutsu as forbidden. There were wars after that. Not that we were talking about restrictions before then or Tobirama killing Izuna...

Senju were still superior while a lot more Uchiha had their eyes while one Senju was shown to use wood style. You know what that means?

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Even without the sharingan, the Uchihas naturally have very powerful chakras which put them above the average shinobi.

I haven't seen real evidence of that

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Uchihas were never shown to all have sharingan as everyone knows and as I've already said. BZ said before that there were tonnes of generations of Indra descendents he failed to corrupt. We just talked about Hashi & Tobirama declaring his jutsu as forbidden. There were wars after that. Not that we were talking about restrictions before then or Tobirama killing Izuna...

1.Wrong. Not all Uchihas were shown to have the sharingan. Most of them, but not all of them

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2. Black zetsu approached all of Indra's incarnates, not the generations. Indra's incarnates are not the whole clan, it's a selective few members that are chosen once every generation. That doesn't mean Indra's incarnates were unable to awaken the sharingan.

3. Tobirama and Hashirama talking about Tobirama's being forbidden was during edo tensei meaning any point after death (the village was establish then too). It's clear that it wasn't made during those wars because Madara also knows the edo tensei seal and all the details of the jutsu too.

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Senju were still superior while a lot more Uchiha had their eyes while one Senju was shown to use wood style. You know what that means?

The bold part is completely false. The senju's were completely even with the Uchiha's with their eyes and with the wood release user such as hashirama was what gave them that edge. Hashirama was the only one who was unparalleled because he was slightly stronger than an EMS user. Besides that MS user was what put fear into Tobirama.
No other senju was able to compete with a mangekyo sharingan user besides Tobirama and Hashirama. That's it.
The rest were on par with the sharingan user both Hashirama and Madara's dad were said to be even.

 

[Dantee]

Wow he beat some weak nobody but when he met a person was some rank HE GOT FOLDED where is all that genius when Lee was busting him in the mouth

okay and?

 

[Dantee]

Feel free to show where its written. =]

So UChiha and Senju were on par for all those years and then Hashi and his wood show up all of sudden senju are superior. It couldn't be written more clear.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Both clans are powerful.

 

[Ripple Hole]

Hmmm

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Hmmm

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A partner clan? Ganging up on a 7 year old? You don't say.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

So UChiha and Senju were on par for all those years and then Hashi and his wood show up all of sudden senju are superior. It couldn't be written more clear.

This is also really true

 

[KingHashirama]

So UChiha and Senju were on par for all those years and then Hashi and his wood show up all of sudden senju are superior. It couldn't be written more clear.

So where is the scan that says they were on par?? Unless you're saying Madara showing up with the EMS made the uchiha stronger.. (which it really didn't).

No clue how hard a concept it is to understand, that 1 man can't represent the strength of an entire clan. You also ignored the fact that Hashirama's Senju clan , wasn't the same as his dad's senju clan. His drive for power also was superior to his dad's, his ambition was also superior. Hashirama's leadership abilities is what strengthened the clan, not his mokuton.