Senjus are not useless without mokuton so Uchihas are not useless without their eyes

[Rikudou Tobi]

I don't know why people think that Uchihas are useless without their eyes, to me it's like saying senjus are useless without mokuton. They always depend on it. Uchihas have used amazing firestyle technique and other stuff like a barrier without their eyes.

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Senjus are known to inherit the yang of the sage while the uchihas have yin. They're not limited to a sharingan or mokuton, the only one person in the senju that had mokuton (from what we know) and back then and a few Uchihas awakened their sharingans too. So since they didn't have their eyes yet, were they useless? No, Izuna as a kid did very well and their father didn't use his sharingan when fighting Butsuma senju.

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And he was evenly strong with Taijama Uchiha. Mangekyo Sharingan didn't even exist at that time because adult Izuna and Madara were the first in their clan to awaken the mangekyo sharingan

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So there's something that we should consider there.
Maybe back then they were using several Uchiha kinjutsu to compensate if they were unable to use their eyes.

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I'm sure there's other techniques out there that doesn't require a sharingan like Izanami or Izanagi.

On a side note. I'm sorry Hyuuga clan members because they aren't well diverse in terms of kekkai genkai benefits, but I'm sure they'll need byukgan for all their taijutsu except for Air palm technique.

But to say the least, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Urda]

Only Hashriama has Wood Release. And that Databook puts them in league above other clans because:

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[Angelic.]

they got the hype jutsu

 

[Nobel]

Funny, you figure that out just now?

 

[KingHashirama]

Senju clan had expertise in all areas of the shinobi world.

- had the ninjutsu expert Tobirama
- Toka the genjutsu expert
- Hashirama the chakra beast, skilled in all aspects.
- Weapon masters

And then you have techs like the 8 gates , which are most likely Senju techs, as Madara knew about them. And there are also many forbidden techniques in the first Hokage's scroll that aren't shown to us.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Only Hashriama has Wood Release. And that Databook puts them in league above other clans because:

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I know he has wood release but that's not the point. The point here is that senjus don't rely on wood release for recognition and the Uchihas don't always rely on the sharingan. Being expertise in taijutsu, genjutsu, and ninjutsu is very vague. Uchihas are also experts in ninjutsu, taijutsu, and especially genjutsu.

Senju clan had expertise in all areas of the shinobi world.

- had the ninjutsu expert Tobirama
- Toka the genjutsu expert
- Hashirama the chakra beast, skilled in all aspects.
- Weapon masters

And then you have techs like the 8 gates , which are most likely Senju techs, as Madara knew about them. And there are also many forbidden techniques in the first Hokage's scroll that aren't shown to us.

Uchihas fit the same diagram as the senjus as well. Despite being genjutsu elites, there ninjutsu, taijutsu, and weapon mastery has been shown to be one of the best in the series.
8 gates is not a technique of senjus
The first Hokage's scrolls were a whole bunch of different swords he can summon out for battle. It was shown in a Madara vs Hashirama flashback.

 

[TimothyTheTomato]

Nice premise but.....
Senjus>uchihas

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Nice premise but.....
Senjus>uchihas

Hashirama>Madara back in the day.
However Senju=Uchiha
There's a bunch of current day Uchihas that would one-shot the senjus back in the day.

 

[Urda]

I know he has wood release but that's not the point. The point here is that senjus don't rely on wood release for recognition and the Uchihas don't always rely on the sharingan. Being expertise in taijutsu, genjutsu, and ninjutsu is very vague. Uchihas are also experts in ninjutsu, taijutsu, and especially genjutsu.

Where are the facts Uchiha are experts in these areas?

I'm going to quote the Databook because the Manga never went into detail, but:

Translation 1: "They distinguished themseleves in war with Sharingan"

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Translation 2: "Thanks to the Sharingan, they made a name for themselves in battle"

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Here is the scan the focus on:

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[Illuminater]

That's crazy, Madara was teaching a kid high level jutsu at the age of 80+ years old.

 

[KingHashirama]

I know he has wood release but that's not the point. The point here is that senjus don't rely on wood release for recognition and the Uchihas don't always rely on the sharingan. Being expertise in taijutsu, genjutsu, and ninjutsu is very vague. Uchihas are also experts in ninjutsu, taijutsu, and especially genjutsu.



Uchihas fit the same diagram as the senjus as well. Despite being genjutsu elites, there ninjutsu, taijutsu, and weapon mastery has been shown to be one of the best in the series.
8 gates is not a technique of senjus
The first Hokage's scrolls were a whole bunch of different swords he can summon out for battle. It was shown in a Madara vs Hashirama flashback.

8 gates = technique about the body and unlocking its chakra pressure to enhance taijutsu. The ones blessed with strong bodies and were matching sharingan users with normal bodies = the Senju.

So can you show a scan where the same thing is said about the uchiha? We aren't talking about Itachi/Sasuke/Uchiha in Konoha. We are talking about the warring states period Konoha. There is a reason why the Senju were the ones called "the clan with thousand skills", and not the Uchiha.



And no, the first Hokage's scrolls were not all bunch of different swords he can summon for battle. That is simply 1 scroll. The scroll containing Tajuu "Kage bunshin, that Naruto learned is the scroll that contains many forbidden techs banned by Hashirama.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Where are the facts Uchiha are experts in these areas?

I'm going to quote the Databook because the Manga never went into detail, but:

Translation 1: "They distinguished themseleves in war with Sharingan"

Spoiler

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Translation 2: "Thanks to the Sharingan, they made a name for themselves in battle"

Spoiler

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Here is the scan the focus on:

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Well that's by databook. I've been using manga pages. The databook was very vague back then and they only emphasize the skills of Uchihas by each individual profile. Right?

Like Itachi who is an uchiha was not only praised for his visual prowess but his skills with kenjutsu and Sasuke was praised for his high level of ninjutsu too. Stuff like that. I know what the databook says but we also have to include individual profiles of the uchiha and what we see written in the manga too.

That's crazy, Madara was teaching a kid high level jutsu at the age of 80+ years old.

Yeah well both of them barely used it in a fight anyways.

 

[Gerkak]

Uchiha are known and feared for the power of their sharingan, senju are not feared for the power of mokuton but their mastery of all branches of jutsu

 

[Urda]

Well that's by databook. I've been using manga pages. The databook was very vague back then and they only emphasize the skills of Uchihas by each individual profile. Right?

Like Itachi who is an uchiha was not only praised for his visual prowess but his skills with kenjutsu and Sasuke was praised for his high level of ninjutsu too. Stuff like that. I know what the databook says but we also have to include individual profiles of the uchiha and what we see written in the manga too.

The Manga was unclear and we have to use the Databook. And this is about the Senju and Uchiha Clan, not the individuals.

 

[Melanin]

Senju clan had expertise in all areas of the shinobi world.

- had the ninjutsu expert Tobirama
- Toka the genjutsu expert
- Hashirama the chakra beast, skilled in all aspects.
- Weapon masters

And then you have techs like the 8 gates , which are most likely Senju techs, as Madara knew about them. And there are also many forbidden techniques in the first Hokage's scroll that aren't shown to us.

/thread.

 

[Melanin]

Senju clan had expertise in all areas of the shinobi world.

- had the ninjutsu expert Tobirama
- Toka the genjutsu expert
- Hashirama the chakra beast, skilled in all aspects.
- Weapon masters

And then you have techs like the 8 gates , which are most likely Senju techs, as Madara knew about them. And there are also many forbidden techniques in the first Hokage's scroll that aren't shown to us.

/thread.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

8 gates = technique about the body and unlocking its chakra pressure to enhance taijutsu. The ones blessed with strong bodies and were matching sharingan users with normal bodies = the Senju.

That wasn't stated anywhere in the manga. We can't assume that 8 gates is for senju because it seems right to us. I'm going by what we know and confirmed.

So can you show a scan where the same thing is said about the uchiha? We aren't talking about Itachi/Sasuke/Uchiha in Konoha. We are talking about the warring states period Konoha. There is a reason why the Senju were the ones called "the clan with thousand skills", and not the Uchiha.

I'm talking exactly about Itachi and Sasuke as well. Uchihas still lived on the outside of the village.
Stuff like crow clone technique is nothing of konoha and the senjus. Don't forget that Madara and Hashirama established the konoha system, so you can't give credit to only one group.
Uchihas spit out high level A rank firestyle techniques and that's a ninjutsu that doesn't require the sharingan. Look at Itachi's taijutsu it's outstanding and one of the best in the series.
So Senjus have a thousands skills yeah whatever but the Uchihas never fell short in these categories too.

And no, the first Hokage's scrolls were not all bunch of different swords he can summon for battle. That is simply 1 scroll. The scroll containing Tajuu "Kage bunshin, that Naruto learned is the scroll that contains many forbidden techs banned by Hashirama.

That was Tobirama's scroll not Hashirama. He invented the technique so no, It doesn't work that way. What we saw against Madara is what we get.

The Manga was unclear and we have to use the Databook. And this is about the Senju and Uchiha Clan, not the individuals.

Well Itachi and Sasuke are both part of Uchihas, we can't neglect that too. The manga has been clear in several cases. We've seen many examples of this in the chuunin exam and Itachi.
Uchiha kinjutsus are no joke too and it didn't take a sharingan to use Uchiha flame formation did it?

 

[A$AP Wap]

Senju Clan is the best because they're good all around and only Hashirama had Wood Style
Uchihas are ****ing garbage without Sharingan

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Uchiha are known and feared for the power of their sharingan, senju are not feared for the power of mokuton but their mastery of all branches of jutsu

Yes but the Uchihas aren't useless without the sharingan is my point.

 

[Meowazziel]

I don't know why people think that Uchihas are useless without their eyes, to me it's like saying senjus are useless without mokuton. They always depend on it. Uchihas have used amazing firestyle technique and other stuff like a barrier without their eyes.

Spoiler

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Senjus are known to inherit the yang of the sage while the uchihas have yin. They're not limited to a sharingan or mokuton, the only one person in the senju that had mokuton (from what we know) and back then and a few Uchihas awakened their sharingans too. So since they didn't have their eyes yet, were they useless? No, Izuna as a kid did very well and their father didn't use his sharingan when fighting Butsuma senju.

Spoiler

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And he was evenly strong with Taijama Uchiha. Mangekyo Sharingan didn't even exist at that time because adult Izuna and Madara were the first in their clan to awaken the mangekyo sharingan

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

So there's something that we should consider there.
Maybe back then they were using several Uchiha kinjutsu to compensate if they were unable to use their eyes.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I'm sure there's other techniques out there that doesn't require a sharingan like Izanami or Izanagi.

On a side note. I'm sorry Hyuuga clan members because they aren't well diverse in terms of kekkai genkai benefits, but I'm sure they'll need byukgan for all their taijutsu except for Air palm technique.

But to say the least, wouldn't you agree?

Uchiha Taijima used his sharingan vs Senju Butsuma.

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Would be weird if he didnt, as his son Madara, unlocked Sharingan right after that fight.

Mokuton for Senju is not like Sharingan for Uchiha.
EMS for Uchiha would be more like Mokuton for Senju (and even that is pushing it imo).

Madara and Izuna were probably not the first to unlock MS. Seeing as they grew up in wartime.
That page you showed was during a time that Itachi told lot of lies to Sasuke. So its not a really trustworthy page.
Itachi also told at one time (when he wasnt lying to Sasuke anymore), that the Uchiha have widely used Izanagi till it caused problems (several Uchiha fighting among the results of the genjutsu) and some uzed Izanami against their own kind for this reason.

Anyway, Uchiha are not completely useless without sharingan, but the strength of their clan relies a lot more on sharingan, than the Senju do on Mokuton.