Senjus are not useless without mokuton so Uchihas are not useless without their eyes

[Ansatsuken]

It's not an Uchiha vs Senju thread. I was making a point that Uchiha's didn't always depend on their sharingan during battle and they were able to hang with a high level clan too in terms of skills.

Nothing to be discuss when I'm dealing with assumption.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Sigh

Tittle: Senjus are not useless without mokuton so Uchihas are not useless without their eyes[/COLOR]

Chopping up your whole post:

And as the manga and databook proves, they are not.

No one said they were useless. Even if they did, I gave proof that the relay on their eyes with the Databook scan.

You used an out dated databook and besides that. I literally listed you a bunch of Uchihas that don't always rely on their sharingan to win every battle. Still nothing to do with Uchihas vs Senju.

Senju Clan doesn't have Wood Release which was stated repeately throughout this thread. We corrected you on this.

I've made it clear that Hashirama was the only one during his time. Yet you still refuse to read that point. A Senju has mokuton, the others were not part of the story-line.

Indra and Ashura were known to inherit the Yang and Yin chakra of the Sage.

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Senju and Uchiha were known as Indra and Ashura's decendants inheriting the same:

Uchiha: "Exceptional Chakra and The Sharingan"

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1. Uchiha and senjus inherited the sages yin and yang. I never excluded Indra and Ashura too.

Six Paths: The secret technique forming all creation out of nothingness and giving it life.

↓ Spiritual and physical energy. That is Yin-Yang Release.

"Yin Release", which creates form out of nothingness and "Yang Release", which breathes life into form. The one with the skill to manipulate those two attributes, the Sage of Six Paths Hagoromo Otsutsuki, developed the "Creation of All Things Technique". He also created the nine bodies of the Tailed Beasts out of the Ten-Tails chakra, making them gifts of Yin-Yang Release. After this, the Uchiha Clan inherited Yin Release and the Senju Clan inherited Yang Release.

2. They had sharingan and an exceptionally strong chakra. Emphasize on exceptionally strong chakra, they didn't rely on their sharingan only. Look at their fire-style for f*cking shits sake.

This is crap. Mostly speculation.

Uchiha kinjutsu isn't an speculation. And neither is uchiha flame formation.

I gave you the Databook scan.

That is your opinion. That is not fact.

First part: And I gave you a scan for that crap. Senju's didn't parade themselves for having a mokuton user to get recognition. They were well diverse blessed with a large amount of Yang energy as the fourth databook stated.

Second part: It's factual. They recieved countless praises in the manga for it.
Example Itachi

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Again, if anything the Manga was vague.

Only you would think this. No one else is going to say that the manga was vague about the skills of an uchiha. Subjective af

And you didn't have an argument using the Uchiha Clan as a whole so you used Itachi and others as example.

I don't need to use them as a whole, I show the ones kishi provided for us. All 5 of them proved my point. The third databook was vague about the skills of the Uchihas and only provided what they all had in common. Sharingan and katon. Katon is also a high level ninjutsu which also seems to fly pass your stubborn head.

That is your arugement. But you only focus on a few when the whole Senju Clan were known to be experts in all areas. You just lost that argument. :|

Are you incapable of reading or are you being a troll? This is not a Uchiha vs Senju fight. So whatever you were arguing here is nonsense. Uchiha's have proven to be very skillful without the sharingan. That's the whole point of this thread. The fact that they were able to compete with the likes of the senju is a testament to how good they are. No Uchiha was born with a sharingan. :|

 

[KingHashirama]

I understand what you're saying here but the clan was most widely known for their sharingan. It's really not the same as the senju clan and mokuton. In fact mokuton is what tipped the scale in favor of Senju.

Mokuton didn't tip the scale in favor of the senju.. lol.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I understand what you're saying here but the clan was most widely known for their sharingan. It's really not the same as the senju clan and mokuton. In fact mokuton is what tipped the scale in favor of Senju.

Yeah they were known for it, but they're not useless without it. That's my main point to this thread.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Nothing to dignify here when I'm dealing with an idiot.
Don't post if you're that stupid enough to believe that it's an assumption.

Show me and tell me the fact(manga scan where Uchiha never activate their Tomoes when fighting with Senju in bloody war, etc, etc) behind your reasoning then I concur. I'll wait.

People that couldn't shoved their believe/idea into someone mind tend to called people as stupid or ignorance ec etc.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Show me and tell me the fact(manga scan where Uchiha never activate their Tomoes when fighting with Senju in bloody war, etc, etc) behind your reasoning then I concur. I'll wait.

Completely illiterate. What point of this isn't an uchiha vs senju thread did you not comprehend?

People that couldn't shoved their believe/idea into someone mind tend to called people as stupid or ignorance ec etc.

You become an idiot when you are incapable of reading post while typing away as if you know exactly what you are talking about.

 

[KingHashirama]

That wasn't stated anywhere in the manga. We can't assume that 8 gates is for senju because it seems right to us. I'm going by what we know and confirmed.

It really doesn't need to be stated in the manga, for us to make the analysis of the 8 gates being a Senju technique.

Hashirama's taijutsu fighting style, being a reflection of Gai/Lee's, the senju being experts in taijutsu, them being the top clan in all aspects of the ninja world.

I'm talking exactly about Itachi and Sasuke as well. Uchihas still lived on the outside of the village.
Stuff like crow clone technique is nothing of konoha and the senjus. Don't forget that Madara and Hashirama established the konoha system, so you can't give credit to only one group.
Uchihas spit out high level A rank firestyle techniques and that's a ninjutsu that doesn't require the sharingan. Look at Itachi's taijutsu it's outstanding and one of the best in the series.
So Senjus have a thousands skills yeah whatever but the Uchihas never fell short in these categories too.

You can't compare Itachi and Sasuke, to the old Senju/Uchiha. Itachi , Sasuke, and all the Uchiha from Hiruzen's generation and up can't be judged at the same standard as those from the warring states period. People like Itachi/Sasuke grew up with Senju influence/teachings (since they were the ones who made the system, and the academy). So they aren't exactly raised on "pure uchiha teachings".

The Uchiha lived in a specific part of the Village, not outside the village. And only Hashirama established the Konoha system, Madara's contribution was pretty much agreeing with Hashirama to stop fighting between clans and giving the name of the village.

And can you show me a single Senju person? nope. Because that clan stopped existing after the creation of the village. Hence Uchiha becoming the strongest clan of Konoha.

That was Tobirama's scroll not Hashirama. He invented the technique so no, It doesn't work that way. What we saw against Madara is what we get.

Look up the scroll of sealings.. that is Hashirama's scroll.

Well Itachi and Sasuke are both part of Uchihas, we can't neglect that too. The manga has been clear in several cases. We've seen many examples of this in the chuunin exam and Itachi.
Uchiha kinjutsus are no joke too and it didn't take a sharingan to use Uchiha flame formation did it?

Uchiha kinjutsus are no joke.. I never said they were. I never said it took the Sharingan for the Uchiha to use flame formation. Itachi and Sasuke both were born long after the warring states era.

I however, disagree with the "senju are equal to Uchiha".. since the Senju were superior to the Uchiha. And the fact remains that the Uchiha needed the sharingan to compete against the Senju..without the sharingan they would not have stood a chance against the Senju.

 

[Urda]

And as the manga and databook proves, they are not.



You used an out dated databook and besides that. I literally listed you a bunch of Uchihas that don't always rely on their sharingan to win every battle. Still nothing to do with Uchihas vs Senju.

I've made it clear that Hashirama was the only one during his time. Yet you still refuse to read that point. A Senju has mokuton, the others were not part of the story-line.



1. Uchiha and senjus inherited the sages yin and yang. I never excluded Indra and Ashura too.


2. They had sharingan and an exceptionally strong chakra. Emphasize on exceptionally strong chakra, they didn't rely on their sharingan only. Look at their fire-style for f*cking shits sake.


Uchiha kinjutsu isn't an speculation. And neither is uchiha flame formation.




First part: And I gave you a scan for that crap. Senju's didn't parade themselves for having a mokuton user to get recognition. They were well diverse blessed with a large amount of Yang energy as the fourth databook stated.

Second part: It's factual. They recieved countless praises in the manga for it.
Example Itachi

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Only you would think this. No one else is going to say that the manga was vague about the skills of an uchiha. Subjective af

I don't need to use them as a whole, I show the ones kishi provided for us. All 5 of them proved my point. The third databook was vague about the skills of the Uchihas and only provided what they all had in common. Sharingan and katon. Katon is also a high level ninjutsu which also seems to fly pass your stubborn head.


Are you incapable of reading or are you being a troll? This is not a Uchiha vs Senju fight. So whatever you were arguing here is nonsense. Uchiha's have proven to be very skillful without the sharingan. That's the whole point of this thread. The fact that they were able to compete with the likes of the senju is a testament to how good they are. No Uchiha was born with a sharingan. :|

Are you serious? :|

That is all your opinion. That is not fact.

You say this is not about Uchiha vs Senju, but you keep comparing them to the Senju.

 

[Meowazziel]

Yeah they were known for it, but they're not useless without it. That's my main point to this thread.

No you reasoned that Uchihas are not useless without Sharingan, because Senju are not useless without Mokuton.
This reasoning fails.
Its not a fair comparison either.

This is among reasons why some people bring points against you.

Because you opened with treating Mokuton and Sharingan as the same.
Wheras Senjus in general, dont rely on Mokuton, because we only know that Hashirama had it.
Whereas we have seen plenty Uchiha with sharingan. Uchiha are known for Sharingan.
Senju were known for their versatility. Hashirama for his Mokuton.
But Tobirama won from Izuna, even though Tobirama didnt have Mokuton or Sage mode.

Uchiha rely way more on sharingan, than Senju on Mokuton.

I dont think that someone said that Uchiha are useless without sharingan (weaker without it though), but they did rely on it to compete with the Senju clan (from who only Hashirama had Mokuton that we know of).
Whereas Senju in general, didnt rely on Mokuton.
They are good in all sorts of areas (taijutsu, ninjutsu, genjutsu). That is the Senju strength and which they rely on.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Completely illiterate. What point of this isn't an uchiha vs senju thread did you not comprehend?

You're an idiot when you are incapable of reading post while posting away as if you know exactly what you are talking about.

I think you're the one that fit what you called as illiterate here. Here you want us to believe what you're saying that Uchiha can hang around Senju in battle or war even if they not activating their eyes.


You previous post

"It's not an Uchiha vs Senju thread. I was making a point that Uchiha's didn't always depend on their sharingan during battle and they were able to hang with a high level clan too in terms of skills."

Prove to me Uchiha able to fight high rank/very powerful opponents be it Senju of the past or current strongest Shinobi/clans without the need to activate/desperately activate even just a 3 tomoes?

Proved it.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Are you serious? :|

That is all your opinion. That is not fact.

You say this is not about Uchiha vs Senju, but you keep comparing them to the Senju.

I put the senjus on the highest pedestal to vouch forvthe strength of the Uchihas. The Uchiha's were able to compete with the Senjus all their live. They were fight since kids such as Izuna and Tobirama. And for those who didn't always have a sharingan had other means of compensating. Being the fact that Senjus are stronger than your average shinobi, even at such a young age that would mean the Uchihas were no joke either. Senjus had means of fighting the Uchiha and the same vice versa. I'm praising both clans here. :|

 

[Urda]

I put the Senju's on the highest pedestal to vouch for the strength of the Uchihas. The Uchiha's were able to compete with the Senjus all their live. They fought since kids such as Izuna and Tobirama. And for those who didn't always have a Sharingan had other means of compensating. Being the fact that Senju is stronger than your average shinobi, even at such a young age that would mean the Uchihas were no joke either. Senjus had means of fighting the Uchiha and the same vice versa. I'm praising both clans here. :|

There is no single fact that the Uchiha are stronger without their Sharingan. You're bringing up abilities that hold no weight to your argument. They are basically irrelevant.

Your argument is baseless.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

It really doesn't need to be stated in the manga, for us to make the analysis of the 8 gates being a Senju technique.

Hashirama's taijutsu fighting style, being a reflection of Gai/Lee's, the senju being experts in taijutsu, them being the top clan in all aspects of the ninja world.

Dude, you can't use an assumption as a fact and Hashirama's taijustu is nothing like Gai or Lees. He barely used taijutsu and he really didn't need to.

You can't compare Itachi and Sasuke, to the old Senju/Uchiha. Itachi , Sasuke, and all the Uchiha from Hiruzen's generation and up can't be judged at the same standard as those from the warring states period. People like Itachi/Sasuke grew up with Senju influence/teachings (since they were the ones who made the system, and the academy). So they aren't exactly raised on "pure uchiha teachings".

Hiruzen said that Itachi studied different clans and prided over his own clan. No Senju influence in his skills whatsoever.
Sasuke defected the leaf to learn from Orochimaru. Itachi/Sasuke always trained with the clan and in part 1, all of Sasuke's fighting style were Uchiha base. chidori is not senju, fireball jutsu is uchiha not senju, and much more.

The Uchiha lived in a specific part of the Village, not outside the village. And only Hashirama established the Konoha system, Madara's contribution was pretty much agreeing with Hashirama to stop fighting between clans and giving the name of the village.

It was Madara and Hashriama. It was Madara that was giving Hashirama all the ideas when they were kids anyways.

And can you show me a single Senju person? nope. Because that clan stopped existing after the creation of the village. Hence Uchiha becoming the strongest clan of Konoha.

Show you what?

Look up the scroll of sealings.. that is Hashirama's scroll.

Shadow clone is Tobirama's ninjutsu.

Uchiha kinjutsus are no joke.. I never said they were. I never said it took the Sharingan for the Uchiha to use flame formation. Itachi and Sasuke both were born long after the warring states era.

Uchiha kinjutsu was before even Itachi and Sasuke's time too

I however, disagree with the "senju are equal to Uchiha".. since the Senju were superior to the Uchiha. And the fact remains that the Uchiha needed the sharingan to compete against the Senju..without the sharingan they would not have stood a chance against the Senju.

Senjus are equal to the Uchihas with their eyes but without it they were able to still compete with some of them because they're clan techniques aren't restricted to their eyes.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

There is no single fact that the Uchiha are stronger without their Sharingan. You're bringing up abilities that hold no weight to your argument. They are basically irrelevant.

Your argument is baseless.

I didn't say they were stronger, where hell are you getting this from?

 

[Urda]

I didn't say they were stronger, where the hell are you getting this from?

I mean compete.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You don't have the facts. :|

Senjus are equal to the Uchihas with their eyes but without it they were able to still compete with some of them because they're clan techniques aren't restricted to their eyes.

Edited: I can't say they are useless. You right about that. But competing against the Senju. You are wrong.

 

[LoZelda101]

Uchiha are known and feared for the power of their sharingan, senju are not feared for the power of mokuton but their mastery of all branches of jutsu

pfft senjus. hashirama carried that weakass overhyped clan all by himself and tobirama was feared because he invented so many forbidden and S/T jutsus which was the main and only reason he managed to kill off izuna.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I think you're the one that fit what you called as illiterate here. Here you want us to believe what you're saying that Uchiha can hang around Senju in battle or war even if they not activating their eyes.


You previous post

"It's not an Uchiha vs Senju thread. I was making a point that Uchiha's didn't always depend on their sharingan during battle and they were able to hang with a high level clan too in terms of skills."

Prove to me Uchiha able to fight high rank/very powerful opponents be it Senju of the past or current strongest Shinobi/clans without the need to activate/desperately activate even just a 3 tomoes?

Proved it.

During battle doesn't mean the opponent is always senju you idiot. This isn't a Uchiha vs Senju thread and i will not repeat myself. Keep it up and you're getting the hell out of here.

-Chuunin Sasuke before awakening his sharingan soloed two chuunins in part 1
-Blind Madara beat high level people with just taijutsu and no sharingan.
-Madara stopped BM naruto's mini tailed beast bomb with a fan and not sharinagn/rinnegan was needed.
-Hebi Sasuke one-shotted Curse mark prisoner with one swing of his sword without using his sharingan.
^^Uchihas are capable of fighting high level opponents without their sharingan, I never said that this is an uchiha vs senju thing and this is the last warning you'll get.

 

[Gerkak]

pfft senjus. hashirama carried that weakass overhyped clan all by himself and tobirama was feared because he invented so many forbidden and S/T jutsus which was the main and only reason he managed to kill off izuna.

Wrong, Senju were known and feared long before hashirama and tobirama were born. You have no proof that he used forbidden jutsu to beat izuna, you just keep making assumptions.

Senju>uchiha this is a fact written by the writer himself.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I mean compete.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You don't have the facts. :|

Every scan I posted is and was a fact. :|

Edited: I can't say they are useless. You right about that. But competing against the Senju. You are wrong.

No other Senju was on Tobirama or Hashirama's level.
The fact is that they were rivals and whenever the senju was called to settle a dispute the Uchiha's were the only ones on the other side. Not everyone in the Uchiha clan awakened their sharingan just so you know.

 

[Urda]

Every scan I posted is and was a fact. :|



No other Senju was on Tobirama or Hashirama's level.
The fact is that they were rivals and whenever the senju was called to settle a dispute the Uchiha's were the only ones on the other side. Not everyone in the Uchiha clan awakened their Sharingan just so you know.

Fine.

Why are we talking about the Senju? This is about the Uchiha relying on the Sharingan and if they useless without it.

I gave you the databook scan, but it was dismissed as outdated, so I have choosen to give in and agree that they are not useless.

[Red] Comments like that. SMH Now your speculating.