Lets see.......
Originally decided not to comeback to this thread as i don't see Ei as a worthwhile opponent for itachi but since you took your time to put up an argument again't my post, its only fair i reply. Besides you are probably one of the few people that would be able to put up a good argument for EI.
If Magatsu Izanagi is reading this, i haven't forgotten about our little thread. Been busy and i dont want to just counter for sake of counter, i want to put up the best counter, but ill get back to that thread
@Draegod. I need to make sure i have two posts left after this thread, so once you counter this post (if you do) ill delete it and ill do the same for any other post i do in this thread after you have countered it.
Now from my understanding, ill summarise what you have done.
Tried your best to underestimate Ei striking speed when not in motion (charging at/into an opponent) and basically claim when he is still his striking speed isn't all that impressive in order to underplay sasuke and other characters either evading or blocking.
And you are right
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Hope you know that, Ei's only in-motion attacks where he runs straight into his opponent with full momentum without stopping is lariat and raitoningu sutoreto.
Hopefully you don't backtrack
Bee stops an obvious Standard non body in motion for Lightning release Body flicker Punch foward. Aye was not even close to using a Body flicker blow.
Fair enough. Although my point with that scan was to show his straight forward movement.
Interesting though, how at such a close range Ei was to naruto, Bee managed to intercept his blow.
You have explained why though, so lets move on.
Minato Has FTG and reaction and Reflexes are one of the best in the manga. SO what's your point? Unless you are saying Itachi is faster then FTG to escape, or has better reflexes?
Distance given in the op if i remember correctly was 50M. Distance agains't Minato was roughly 10-15 meters
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Id like to think at such a distance, Ei coming in a straight line, itachi will be able to react and activate at the very least the early stages of susanoo.
He has done this agains't kirin, but also agains't muki tensei, and even had the time of extending it to Sasuke
Tbf i believe itachi's reaction time is underrated.
But again, my point was to show his straight/direct forward attacks
Madara>>>Itachi in every aspect besides Genjutsu. Itachi doesnt even compare, yet Even Madara only had time to block a Regular Lightning release body flicker punch instead of resorting to blocking with Susanoo.
Nice of you to give itachi at least genjutsu, but all that irrelevant.
What you claimed with Madara is basically linking power to reaction time or overall speed.
That is almost like saying base hashirama > Ei/minato in reaction time because he is stronger than them/both combined.
Unless you can prove that how strong you are, also reflects your reaction time, Madara being stronger than itachi doesn't mean that because he managed to react and bloke ei strike, itachi cannot
Madara can be light years in front of itachi in strength, but reaction time, id like to think the gap between the two in this isn't as grand as the gap between their overall powers. And id like to think if we stripped both down to just taijutsu where reaction time/striking speed comes into play it would be a closely contested duel
Aye was testing and wasn't even close to being at his fastest.
Who are you fooling. Yes i am well aware that v2 makes Ei's hair apparently spike up. But in my first post in this thread i challenged the notion that v2 or raiton in general makes ei so much faster when charging at his opponents in full motion.
I have seen people claim because there was no spike agains't minato that meant he was in v1 even though he admitted to the attack being his fastest.
Anyway Ei uses his shunshuin in conjunction to his raiton.
To my knowledge shunshin is to make him fast the same way shunshin is used by everybody else, whilst the raiton no yoroi is to boost his reaction time as shee said.
He was in v1 then umped himself to v2 to react to amaterasu.
If v2 makes him so much faster or faster full stop than v1 when it comes to forward momentum (going from point A to B) he had no excuse not to use that from the start agains't team hebi and only opted to in order to react to amaterasu.
Perhaps in v1/2 his striking speed also gets a lift. But overall speed, going from point A to B even if we assume it increases this speed, i doubt v1 EI would leave V2 EI in the dust.
Lets get back to the madara scenario.
Ei claimed (assuming the translation is correct), that Madara was able to guard agains't his speed and that he needed to up his speed
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This translate to 2 things.
1. He had used his full speed (v2 apparently) and it failed agains't madara. There is absolutely no reason for him to say what he did, if he could go any faster and the manga made it painfully clear, when Onoki came into the picture and made him lighter
2. The raiton no yoroi, regardless of which form v1 or v2 doesn't boost speed.
Even if we assume Ei was in v1 and the raiton gives an increase in speed, by ei statement he has made it clear that this increase in speed between v1 and v2 isn't that great and didn't opt for this as a slight increase of speed between the modes (v1 and v2) would still not have made him faster and make a difference.
His statement was a statement of defeat and not of someone who had the option of going faster by himself without any aid. Keep in mind that this madara reacted with the rinnegan, the rinnegan equivalent of the near 360 degree awareness given by the byagukan or tracking movements of the sharingan is the shared vision that madara alone doesn't possess.
Finally Ei was keeping up with kcm naruto just fine in v1. Assuming v2 makes him faster, surely this means that he should now be ahead of naruto in speed, yet in v2 he was evaded by naruto. Again im doubting whether the raiton gives a speed boost that isn't reaction time and possibly striking speed (with or without movement speed)
Kabuto was in control and did not even use the Raiton Body flicker to attack Naruto since he stated he needed Naruto alive (didn't wont to kill). And even then are you saying Itachi is a Sage mode level Sensor and every other ninja can equally sage mode sense as well? If not, moving on..
You still don't get the points my scans was showing. I am well aware that sandaime was being controlled, but it was to show that, coming at somebody head on especially a sharingan user assuming they have the reaction time, would have no trouble at the very least blocking. Switch what Naruto did (evading) sandaime with sasuke or even a sensor like mu and they should be able to evade it also
And yet again, striking speed does not equal Movement speed. Sasuke blocked a non in shunshin motion Aye elbow.
Charged at each other
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If you look at the bottom picture, both shinobi's (Ei especially) was still in motion when sasuke who was the first to aim his attack (at raikage) launched chidori(arm back and ready to thrust forward) your so called movement speed that you claim, Ei didn't use, he did indeed use and Sasuke managed to track this speed and had chidori in hand ready to strike.
Fact that he had prepped chidori in mid movement (same as Ei) clearly shows that he didn't have no trouble with Ei movement.
If he can decide on chidori of all techniques but also prep this attack in mid movement states that, his sharingan was capable of tracking ei movement even before ei was able to close the distance to launch elbow and was still in motion.
Sharingan has managed to react to Ei movement speed
@ Bold Wrong. Not block, even better. Evaded.
As i said you have managed to distinguish the times where Ei with full momentum without stopping strike his opponent. There were 3 people he did this agains't.
Madara - blocked
Naruto -evaded
Minato - evaded
But there is a fourth you see.
Juugo.
We can see the distance between Ei and team hawk
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We then see Ei charging in with full momentum (like you have claimed) and juugo last minute managed to block
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Unless i am mistaken he did manage to react and block raikage momentum punch attack.
He didn't say any form, he stated "Bee's." And even then, Bee did not attack with a Shunshin since he was not on land to preform a Shunshin, he simply Jumped at sasuke to attack in the air (no land under feet to run on). Plus Bee and Aye does not equal in speed, and Aye has cannonly been faster then Sasuke's eyes so again a moot point.
Think you need to read it again.
Whether its Bee's or not Sasuke's statement makes it clear that straight line movement is well straight forward for the sharingan. Heck you don't need the sharingan for that, although it helps.
As for you trying to dismiss Bee's speed by claiming He simply jumped at Sasuke and that was not shunshin/speed, you insult me.
Firstly who said you cannot shunshin if you start of on land, regardless of whether you end up in the air, you have already vitalised your body and used the land beneath your feet.
This was bee
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His v1 mode vitalised his body whilst on land and increased provided him with a burst of speed. Sure you cannot shunshin in the air, but if you can shunshin on land and use that momentum in the air.
Anyway Bee's speed was enough for him to say only Ei has managed to react to it and sasuke to acknowledge his speed. Sasuke's statement about straight line movement is valid let it be, bee or EI.
Irrelevant since there is no Databook scores for any of the ninjas you you mention to compare with (MS sasuke, Bee, Aye, EMS/rinnegan madara, 3rd rikage, SM Naruto war arc etc etc).
I agree there is no score. But realistically the feat demonstrated by MS sasuke agains't bee and Ei, his databook stat would not have increased for speed therefore pre ms sasuke should be able to achieve the same feat agains't ei ad bee. If anything may have decreased as he didn't have the abilities of orochimaru. Otherwise there is no difference in abilities that could be attributed to reaction speed between the sasuke that the 3db gave a score of 4.5 for speed and MS sasuke
No it is fact he had no idea where Aye was and was simply smart to use Enton (something itachi cannot do) to protect blind spots. His head was foward when Aye was behind him, nuff said.
Manga knowledge may actually put doubt in Ei's mind. Lets assume Ei isn't a careless fighter and the reason he sacrificed his arm was to kill the person who supposedly abducted his brother, therefore in a normal scenario he wouldn't do this.
Reason i said manga knowledge may put a doubt in ei mind is because Shee has established that Sasuke is Itachi's brother, whether raikage knows this now, probably. Both Sasuke and Itachi have very similar moves, yes itachi cannot use enton, but Ei doesn't know that.
All he would know when he sees susanoo and particularly amaterasu, is that there is a chance this guy (itachi) may also be able to do what sasuke did since they are brothers and have the same similar moveset.
Ei doesn't know the difference between enton and amaterasu. To him, if amaterasu comes into the picture, this guy (itachi) may also be able to use it in conjunction with susanoo.
Secondly its true in this case, Ei managed to get behind Sasuke managed to evade the sharingan line of sight. But you see, an opponent moving into your blindspot is not a new strategy everybody knows this, therefore if raikage was to do this, i expect itachi like everybody else to assume he is behind him, if not infront of him
Having Enton and using it in your blind spot in advance does not equal you reacting to some one especially since it failed to connect with Aye, and aye volunteered and touched the flames. Sasuke head and eyes were literally the wrong way, nothing to talk about. And with itachi having nothing to compare with Enton, there is definitely nothing to talk about.
Replied with one above as they are more or less the same topic.
Bee had never fought nor researched on GEnjutsu and literally didnt care and was not phased (while in the genjutsu solo'd sasuke. lmao). Aye literally fought 5 EMS users who are smarter better in combat and out number itachi. He literally fought and was aware of the sharingan, MS, EMS, rinnegan. And you're comparing him to Bee who didn't know nor cared since he is a "perfect jin who doesn't get affected?"
Id like to think bee had researched and fought agains't genjutsu before, to know that as a perfect jin, he can use the partnered method. He got caught, but Sasuke and later by Itachi.
The problem with using Madara is that it isn't his main fighting style, but also the application of genjutsu, itachi has shown to be able to cast far more subtle than any other illusionist in the series, but also isn't limited like the other uchiha's to the sharingan.
Also you are wrong, you see perfect jin's do get affected by illusions. It actually still baffles me how people claim perfect jins are immune. You aren't immune if you have to get out of one with the help of your tailed beast
Also not my purpose to argue simple things, but madara smarter combatant than itachi? please.
Again you're assuming Aye will stay still and Attempt to stay in one spot while Itachi does Fodder level fire jutsu. Bee and Aye does not fight the same, nor will aye look in his eyes willingly (fact of manga no disputing).
No i was stating that, Itachi will be able to launch other attacks to occupy Ei/defend himself whilst still capable of using genjutsu, he has shown to be quite the multi tasker, especially when it comes it executing techniques.
True Ei will try his best not to look into itachi eyes, but may fall prey to his finger. No offence to Ei, but i don't he has barely shown any intelligence feat and while he knows not to look at a sharingan eyes assuming he managed to keep this up for the whole duration of the fight, he doesn't know that itachi doesn't need the sharingan for illusions.
Apart from ephemeral id also make a claim for jubaku Satsu as itachi has the skill, but also has figured out the workings of this technique with the sharigan
With Ayes control over his "Bijuu level chakra" he will instantly break out of any reality altering genjutsu. And that's if Aye decides to stay in one spot and look directly in itachi's eyes the entire time with out doing his style of fighting. And with itachi making it obv it is a Reality changing genjutsu (attempting to make the target go cravy, burn like paper, turn into crows etc etc, it will be obv)
Reality altering illusion is tricky, nope don't see Ei capable of realising he is in one to break it. Nobody denying that he can break it, im denying whether he has the intelligence to figure out, he is in one.
Within the illusion what itachi decides to show/make obvious is for him to command. Sure kakashi burning like paper or turning itachi crows is a give away. But go back to his fight agains't deidara or his genjutsu duel with itachi, didn't give nothing away.
But he can further make this complicated. Since he can use karasu bunshin's in real life, if he chose to use it in an illusion, it creates confusion because the victim wouldn't be aware whether the karasu bunshin is in reality or a illusion karasu bunshin
MAdara is lightyears overall better then Itachi in COmbat in general, to suggest he wouldn't try to catch them all in genjutsu every moment he could (which is fact once he saw the opening on aye, what did he use?). Madara is also faster and smarter in combat then Itachi. Yet non of that mattered to Aye who with one arm was owning 5 EMS users no diff. Madara was "destroyed by Hindura" off pane yet everyone knows/thinks he was obliterated. Minato defeated or best A and bee off panel, Tobirama defeated and fought Madara and his brother off panel ec etc etc Do I need to go on?
Firstly i am not buying that because they seemingly didn't get into an illusion agains't madara's clones, in a 1 vs 1 fight, any one of them aren't at a risk of being put in an illusion, when faced with the likes of sasuke/itachi/madara/obito.
That 'feat' doesn't put them at low risk of getting in an illusion.
Now if you go back to the moment madara created the bunshin's, the first time he said which made his intentions clear was; SUSANOO
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His not so serious/playful manner along with his intentions to use susanoo and nothing else made it clear that it was going to be just susanoo and when the got back to that fight we saw that, yes it was just a susanoo assault. It was like 99% susanoo assault and 1% genjutsu. Don't believe Madara had intentions of genjutsu, at least not at the beginning when he made his susanoo intentions clear, but also casting an illusion and paralysing them makes it alot easier to strike them down with susanoo afterwards and that is no fun, to Madara.
You keep telling us how smart (which i disagree) and fast madara is but that is irrelevant, because you have admitted that itachi is atleast better at genjutsu and that is what we are arguing here. Madara being smarter and faster is irrelevant when we are debating genjutsu.
If Itachi blocks Ei LoS with a dispersing karasu bunshin or summoning crows and during this brief moment initiate genjutsu straight after he regains his LoS thats about it.
Anyway other post you made was debating that because Ei moves so fast and genjutsu like any other jutsu needed to be executed, by the time the technique is executed ei would have evaded eye contact again, therefore itachi has to cast it the instant he makes contact with ei eyes.
Possibly, but rather than going through the trouble of debating this, ill bring transcription seal into the picture as it serves well, both with this topic (genjutsu) and amaterasu.
As we know the MS allows a shinobi to prep a technique to activate after a certain time, but also the user can determine what should activate the technique.
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And i believe apart from the amaterasu that he did to sasuke, he also did it here agains't nagato.
Even with the signs of amaterasu, (pressure and eye bleeding)
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Nagato was stunned that it wasn't amatarasu
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Next page; Amaterasu
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Likewise the only time amaterasu needs a charge time has been shown to be during its initial first usage in a fight. However after its first usage a user doesn't need to constantly charge it for each use.
Once the initial charge for the first amaterasu is done. Every amaterasu after, is good to go.
If Ei comes in a straight line with full momentum a prepped amaterasu is what awaits him. Whether he can shift to the left/right in full momentum to evade amaterasu the same way he did when standing still and sasuke was charging amaterasu im not sure
If itachi does this with tsukuyomi as soon his and Ei's eye meet the jutsu activates, that goes around what you were saying. If itachi was to give the command activate within 5m when his eyes and ei lock.
Also a good way for amaterasu to get round sensor's and speedsters.
Since its already prepped, it doesn't need any sort of charge time and ready to fire. Something that will catch ei off guard since its application is slightly different.
Striking Speed is not even close to movement speed so 90% of your post is null and void bruh. Hyugas Striking speed is only second to Guy, are they equally as fast?
You may have confused my post as it was to show their predictable moves whether movement or striking. But feel free to hit back otherwise 3 days from now ill have to delete this post before i cannot anymore and i need my two post for Mangetsu.
