Itachi Uchiha vs. Ay
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Gold Lightning
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some real interesting stuff here 
But yeah, I'm gonna say Ay wins. If he fights with a cool head like how he was against Madara, he'll win med - high diff.
But yeah, I'm gonna say Ay wins. If he fights with a cool head like how he was against Madara, he'll win med - high diff.
What the hell is this? Lol Itachi absolutely destroys Ay, people trying to claim otherwise is pretty weird. Hopefully Draegod isn't the one to reply as his Uchiha hate blinds him from the truth, noamsaiyan.
-First of all, Ribcage has shown the ability to send Ay flying away [
-Sasuke was never genuinely blitzed in this scan [
-Now instead, one can look at the difference in speed between the two characters by comparing people they've both fought. One example is Bee. Bee used his 7 sword fighting style and hammered Sasuke within a second [
-Given the fact that Itachi can keep doing this, his chances of landing Genjutsu on a subpar intelligent person like Ay will be at an all time high. Ay looked straight into Sasuke's eyes
-Crows clones and Genjutsu will be Ay's inevitable downfall. Ay attempts v2 blitz and lands a hit on a Crow bunshin, in which it disperses like so [
-First of all, Ribcage has shown the ability to send Ay flying away [
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], so Itachi has a safe keep away for Ay. Second of all, Itachi does not need to activate his Susano to use the Susano arm, so he easily saves energy doing this [
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]. And one must note Itachi does it at instantanous speeds given his Kirin reaction time and his Susano activation/striking speed which he can do without looking [
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]. As you can see he did not need to look to accomplish this, similarly, he did not need to look to land kunai's perfectly on Naruto's clones from behind [
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]. So whatever it is, his instinctive senses are practically sensory capabilities.-Sasuke was never genuinely blitzed in this scan [
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]. Sasuke was suffering from the Amateratsu's after effects, as he has every time he's used it. In which case he cannot properly react to Danzo's smaller Futon variants given he is trapped in place.-Now instead, one can look at the difference in speed between the two characters by comparing people they've both fought. One example is Bee. Bee used his 7 sword fighting style and hammered Sasuke within a second [
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]. On the other hand, Itachi countered his 7 sword dance with utmost ease as you can see here [
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]. And you can in fact see several hitting marks meaning Itachi did make contact with Bee on several times and was not stopped right in his tracks as was Sasuke. And yes, Itachi has blitzed Bee twice [
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][
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]. Hebi Sasuke has also been blitzed by Itachi [
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].-Given the fact that Itachi can keep doing this, his chances of landing Genjutsu on a subpar intelligent person like Ay will be at an all time high. Ay looked straight into Sasuke's eyes
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, and DB supports the fact that
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, further evident by Itachi's feats. Now before the Madara example pops up, it's a fail example because Madara's fighting style does not revolve around Genjutsu as does Itachi's. Moreover, at that particular point it was purely Susano fighting, no need to put someone under Genjutsu when you are using your legged Susano (not that I see how it is possible if you are within that huge Susano..-Crows clones and Genjutsu will be Ay's inevitable downfall. Ay attempts v2 blitz and lands a hit on a Crow bunshin, in which it disperses like so [
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]. He can even
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if he wills, but that's unnecessary. Ay will then not only be prone to Itachi's Amateratsu given that he will be distracted as has a SM and Sharingan user been, but he will also be prone to
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. So no, Ay will not do anything here other than get put into Genjutsu by a crow or Itachi, and then have Amateratsu kill him (or it kills him while he's distracted from the crows, he won't see it coming at all.
Not sure if you genuinely don't know what occurred or you're deliberately lying to the readers/debaters. Sasuke ran from Ays punch. The small dark figure you see leaning down in the last panel is Ay but hes not getting up because Sasuke "sent him flying". Hes pulling his fist up off the ground.
Your own scan destroys this point.
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. Itachi has used Susanoo Arm and Sasuke calls it Susanoo. If you don't believe this is the case tell me exactly what you think Itachi is doing to use these Susanoo Arms if its not Susanoo.Kirin is not instant. Nothing about Itachi is instant. Its getting harder to tell whether or not you're deliberately lying because Itachi is clearly looking back at Sasuke just before he attacked.
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Your claim of him not looking has already been exposed as false. Another lie? He does not have sensory abilities. Never will. He has stated this himself.
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He was ''genuinely'' blitzed. Sasuke did not know where Ay was until Ay stopped behind him. He was looking the opposite direction, unaware Ay was closing in on him despite his eyes locked onto Ay. Ay moved to his right to dodge Amaterasu Sasuke turned his head left (which was Ays right) to follow him.
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and Ay was gone out of his line of sight. Ay had did a 180 and came around him. Fresh MS Sasuke gets the same treatment. No amount of rest his eyes have will allow him to track or react to someone who can literally run circles around him.Sasukes feat is still more impressive because we actually see him attempting to attack Bee back where all Itachi did was run away.
Running away does not equal countering. The hitting marks don't mean Itachi made contact with Bee. It only means contact was made but that could have been Bees own swords clanking against one another as he moved them through his joints and limbs and given that Itachi didn't pull out kunai until he faced Nagato, and was not shown wielding any kunai during the assault and after he jumped away only reinforces that.
The starting distance for this fight is 50 meters. Ay has manga intel. Databook supports nothing about visual genjutsu being instant either (because nothing about Itachi is instant) so I don't know why you're bringing visual genjutsu up. Its not as if he can cast it from 50 meters (you cant even see someones eyes from that distance) plus when Raiton Armor comes on Itachi won't be able to keep Ay in his line of sight.
Fighting style not revolving around Genjutsu does not mean you aren't good at it. So according to you, there was no need to use Genjutsu on Ay because he was already using Susanoo(makes zero sense) on him so your logic is telling you that Ay really can't avoid genjutsu that well, Madara merely never tried to use it, correct? Sorry buddy. Thats not an argument and the manga showed Madara casting Genjutsu on Ay when he had him distracted which leads to only one sensible and logical conclusion; he couldn't land it until that point. Case closed.
Too bad the birds get electrocuted and fried by Raiton Armor. Both those SM and Sharingan users you speak of have lower reactions than Ay with Raiton Armor and I've said earlier no birds are distracting Ay. When they come into contact with Raiton Armor, they die. Birds? Birds distract Ay and gets him one shoted? The man who holds his own against 5 legged Susanoo dies because birds distract him. Great, that makes a ton of sense.
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Brother Numpsay
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Dude you went in, props. But I disagree with this part of the quote. You can put someone under genjutsu with that distance as Sasuke proven to do it further.[
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to
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]
King Of Pop
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itachi wins. he can use v2 which would suffice against all ays attacks. tsukuyomi ends him once eye contact is made. he is a better genjutsu user than madara(for those using that madaras soosano clones as example) and as seen against sasuke ay did make eye contact, replace sasuke with itachi and ay is instantly tortured in tuskuyomi realm. he can use soosano fist to grab and smack ay if the latter attacks and he can easily outsmart conisdering the raikage is not the brightest around.
i see itachi winning mid dif
i see itachi winning mid dif
So Sasuke, while lying on the ground all the whilst Ay is about to swing, somehow got to his feet and shunshin'd away? Tell me more InvisibleMan. Ay was pushed away and then Sasuke stood up, all there is to it. And even if I interpreted it as Sasuke moved away, are you telling me Susano's arm cannot push away Ay when it has the physical strength to crush humans? Because there's no reason for him to be heavy enough to just stand there while it fails to move him. Not to mention if Susano arm grabs him there's no reason to believe Ay can release himself from it in the first place. He has
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hand and he will fail against a v1's (or Itachi goes into a v2), as he has no bodily strength feats to suggest otherwise.What the hell? I know it's a Susano's arm, but clearly there is no ribcage around him, so he's saving a hell of a lot of energy by doing this (I am talking about the Kabuto in case your reading comprehension fails you once again). Don't see what the point of that reply was. All I am saying is that he does not need to manifest Susano to use its arm, as I showed.
My god, you're quite the knit picker. No, Kirin is not instant. But it's faster than anyone v2 Ay, and Itachi reacted to it. So where are you going with this. And I'll agree with the fact that Itachi saw Sasuke's Susano, I did not noitce that. Fact remains that the clones were killed without Itachi looking. You cannot disprove it by saying my previous claim was wrong, that's not how debating works, Lol. Didn't claim he had sensory capabilities, ever.
Because he was suffering from backlash, period. Ay using his Shunshin and v2 was capable of getting out of sight by creating an after image, don't see how that means Sasuke cannot ever perceive Ay, and I don't see how Sasuke failing means Itachi failing, because that is not the case here.
No, look again and you'll see contact marks.
Hitting marks doesn't equal making contact? Wot. And based on what did Itachi not pull out a Kunai? Based on what is Bee's proficiency in Kenjutsu so low that his swords accidentally make contact with one another? Nothing to support your claims, everything to support Itachi having actually blocked and evaded. Not having shown it=/=not having done it, as it's the obvious thing to do here, and it's the thing he's done every time he's faced any form of weapons.
I put the scan which states the moment he makes eye contact with the Sharingan he's put into genjutsu. Whether you do or don't want to accept that fact is up to you, but you'd merely be denying mangaphax. And no, it cannot be cast from 50 meters similarly to how Ay cannot blitz from 50 meters. Your point? Ay's v2 shroud cannot be used indefinitely, he only used it once or twice against Madara given the fact that it takes tremendous amounts of chakra to utilise. Itachi makes a crow bunshin and he's pretty much ready for Ay's soon-to-fail blitz as it scatters into crows and forces Ay into Genjutsu.
Never did I say madara is not good at it. But the fact that he doesn't need it to win implies he doesn't focus on its usage. And what the actual fook. By this logic Madara could not have used PS in that particular fight until he showed it, my god..
And it must be pretty hard for someone as subpar as you to realise being at the top of such a Susano makes it hard to cast Genjutsu [
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], let alone the fact that it isn't needed since Susano can kill said person physically regardless of Genjutsu. Case closed my ass.Too bad Raiton armour does not electrify anything or anyone. It's gaseous, it's not physical as is all other Raiton in the manga. It has no feats of electrocution, and every person who has ever touched him was not electrocuted, even Jugo who had half his body pierced was not affected by electricity itself, so that point goes out the window. What does reaction speed have anything to do with what I said? I'm saying people with higher perceptive capabilities where still distracted by it and did not do anything about it, so someone who will practically be blinded by it will also fail. You saying birds won't distract him=/=you proving why they won't. And you not wanting to believe crows can cast genjutsu being your argument has to be the funniest thing I've read in a while. Quite frankly, I don't care what you want or think, prove it or concede this because there's literally nothing Ay can do about the crows blinding him and then casting Genjutsu.
Was hoping Evani would reply, not your or Draegod, I dislike debating people who are complete dumbfuks when it comes to the Uchiha's (not gonna lie doe, Draegod is good af when he exploits underrated characters).
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@Apex, I do think Itachi wins considering Ay can't bypass Susanoo and Itachi can actually catch him off guard considering Ay won't be on the run all the time...However, I don't see Itachi tracking V2 speed as well as hitting him easily.
No one is claiming tracking him is easy (I hope), but saying he's always out of Itachi's sight is rather absurd. Saying Genjutsu isn't viable against Ay is ludicrous because Ay cannot keep up v2 for as long as Itachi can keep up v1/v2 variants and/or crow feints which Ay won't see through.
Forbidden Technique
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....
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Heels weren't planted, toes dug into the ground, grounds breaking, rocks and debree flying... That's Rock Lee taking off. Nearly identical to that panel of Ay's foot. There are more examples I can show you, but I don't really feel like fetching for more.
I can agree with Ay slowing down at the last second, but he certainly didn't come to a dead stop. Otherwise, Sasuke should of easily been able to counter attack given Ay's piss poor striking speed. Actually, thinking about it now, it kind off does make sense that Ay had to slow down in order to compensate with his striking speed - something even Suegetsu could intercept.
You keep mentioning what Karin said... Yes, she said if Sasuke couldn't track Ay he has the Enton shield; that doesn't disprove the notion of tracking him that last second after the enton shield was employed. Whether he really slowed down or not, the fact is Sasuke eventually tracked him as the manga specifically showcases.
Thought processes were made all the time even people much faster then V2 Ay are in motion. For example, Madara could mentally process a thought when Gai was moving so fast that he distorted space..... It's a thought process. And I'm fairly positive a thought process travels at the same speed for everyone.
Anyways, I'll agree that Ay slowed down in the last second. Still doesn't change the fact that he was literally given a good amount of time to charge up his chakra to obtain that shunshin speed, as well as the fact that Itachi is superior to a premature Sasuke in almost everything. So he's not avoiding Itachi's sight throughout the fight. And Ay fights way too wrecklessly...which is his downfall against such a prestine opponent like Itachi. To say he isn't going to eventually get caught in genjutsu is almost crazy to me... Even in your second scan, Ay is literally looking eye level at the back of Sasukes head despite knowing he's a uchiha. It's really just imminent.
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Itachi of the Uchiha clan
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Itachi wins med difficulty...
Ei loses there is nothing suggesting he can fight without making the same eye contact he made against Sasuke. If he does that he's he's a dead man.
inb4 someone says Madara couldn't catch Ei in genjutsu so how would Itachi do it. Madara has basic genjutsu even if he would have caught Ei in genjutsu they would have woke him up.
Ei loses there is nothing suggesting he can fight without making the same eye contact he made against Sasuke. If he does that he's he's a dead man.
inb4 someone says Madara couldn't catch Ei in genjutsu so how would Itachi do it. Madara has basic genjutsu even if he would have caught Ei in genjutsu they would have woke him up.
Who said that? Once Ay starts moving, there's no tracking with the Sharingan. As for Genjutsu, yes via crows is a viable method. Where did you get second bold?
I see what I spoke "It doesn't cause such" was wrong...However I also think:
There's a difference between pushing forwards as your heel is raised while you get a boost forward as toes are dug in unlike Ay
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And here which shows his side slowing down (Notice the arrow point at his left foot which was already on the ground and therefore not giving him a boost forward...the surprised Icon showed he noticed it as well) If you also notice, there's no way Ay could have gone any further as he was already behind Sasuke. Ay's heel isn't raised
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This is more of a perfect comparison to Lee's scan you showed as you see Ay raising his foot as it's a perfect example of Ay moving further.
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To be honest, there's no solid proof that suggest Sasuke did track him when he was right behind Sasuke and only needed to strike.
His striking speed as well as the fact that he did stop was at play...The mental reaction part I spoke of regarding Karin and C was shown before Sasuke turned back..How is it Sasuke can also physically turn back his head before Ay can move further from such a distance?..Also if it wasn't a stop, Ay should have ran into the fire given the very little distance.
Actually, the Karin bit pretty much hints at us..She could see everything and she referenced A's speed being impossibly fast and then went ahead to refer to following his movements. There's really be no need for saying all that if he was definitely doing so..When she says "If" it was to complete the saying that "He's protected even if he can't" Even though it may not be a 100 percent confirmation, it indicates to us what exactly was happening when we do see Sasuke looking around.
@bold Yes Sasuke found Ay when Ay pretty much wasn't moving as well as the fact that people could mentally process thoughts before Sasuke could turn his head or even before Ay could move an inch from that distance? Definitely doesn't sound right imo.
Also, Manga did show Sasuke searching for Ay as he was surprised when he could no longer see him...If he could, he'd be following him all through before Ay landed behind
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When Ay appeared behind Sasuke, he was looking left..So he definitely wasn't following. At the end, Sasuke turned back because there was nowhere else Ay would have gone when he moved left to begin with as well as the fact that the slowing down process involves a rough sound when you clash with the ground easily noting your position
Yes you make a lot of sense but consider that Madara could see what happened before he thought that...My main point was Ay was very close to Sasuke and Karin did mentally react when the flames came up..When you think of the distance and the fact that Sasuke turned back, that pretty much means Sasuke can also physically react.
Basically, Karin could see everything, She saw when the flames came up..Ay was practically behind Sasuke before the flames came out. How could Karin have noticed the flames coming out and think to herself all that before Ay could then make a step to the extent where Karin even smiles? Imagine Ay going at top speed and that happening? It doesn't sound right when you think she was then thinking to herself again "Huh" when Ay then attacked..She definitely won't have time to think about the flames before Ay attacked and then suddenly change her mind with such happening. In an instant with even a smile taking place.
You're correct about it happening instantly in some cases but the fact that Sasuke changed his head position further shows that wasn't Ay's speed or rather, Ay did pause.
True but I'm basically just saying Sasuke didn't follow Ay as well as the fact Itachi can't imo. If you're referring to charging up against Sasuke, remember Ay did so faster against Minato twice so I don't see that being a problem.
As for the Genjutsu part which I didn't mention as I can't really give a strong ground, If I'm to give my take on it i'll say Ay did fight 5 clones as well as Sasuke so what really matters is Genjutsu's preparation..Can it be prepared when Ay is eventually seen? When he starts moving and then stops, would they have Genjutsu ready? Maybe that's why even when Ay looks back at Sasuke's head with Sasuke turning, he wasn't hit. It's possible if Ay does move in a linear way but he was pretty much upset about B which made him very hot headed in that scenario.
The only way I can see a Genjutsu hitting him is via crows.
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I never said Susanoo can't push Ay back, thats you trying to straw man me. Anyway, you have no argument here. Theres no evidence of any contact being made with the Susanoo arm and it pushing Ay back, none. It doesn't exist. All the evidence supports my claim:
>Ay and Sasuke are in the epicenter of the crater,
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>Ay is still in the epicenter of the crater while Sasuke is not,
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>The same landing symbol is drawn by Darui and Sasuke when Darui shunshin'd over to help Cee,
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If what you claimed was true and Sasuke merely stood up after pushing Ay back, then Sasuke would still be in the epicenter and Ay closer to the edge, its the complete opposite though, Sasuke moved, Ay didn't. When Darui jumped over to help Cee the same landing symbol is drawn on Sasuke in that last panel, meaning he just moved to that location as well which kills this point of yours.
Except he is manifesting Susanoo if hes using the Susanoo arm. He can't use Susanoo arm unless he uses Susanoo. What part of that do you not understand? I think you're saying he doesn't need to manifest full body Susanoo to use the arms (which is true) but the fact remains if hes manifesting an arm, its still Susanoo, its still going to hurt his eyes an cost him chakra and maybe not to the extent the full one would, but he will still suffer, period.
Kirin isn't faster than Amaterasu and Ay reacted to that. Regardless of the speed we were given of how fast Kirin travels, it still needs to travel to its target to hit. Amaterasu ignites instantly on where the eye looks so it will always hit its target before Kirin does, even if its just a millisecond difference. So yes, Ay has reacted to something faster than Kirin. I didn't attempt to disprove the clone scan because I didn't think it was necessary to explain why two of Narutos clones at that point are inferior to Ay and why something like that would never land on Ay (whether kunai or a Susanoo arm). I still don't. If you want me to explain why I believe this just say the word but it shouldn't be hard to deduce my reasons.
If Ay was able to go from in-front of Sasuke to behind him with him completely unaware of it, it means Sasuke can't perceive Ay. Itachi will fail to perceive him just how he failed to perceive Kabutos sudden strike, who is slower than Ay.
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Based on the fact Itachi had no kunai during Bees assault on him. Bees sword making contact with one another does not mean his kenjutsu is low as the swords hitting off one another would allow him to send them the way he wants. The only thing the manga supports is Itachi running away. Claiming people doing something without showing it with no evidence to back it up is just showing you have no more legs to stand on.
I'm not denying a manga fact because the manga stated nothing about visual genjutsu being instant, which is what you claimed. All the manga said was it can be invoked by the user upon eye contact but nothing was mentioned of it being instant. You're strawmaning me again, I never said Ay will blitz Itachi from 50 meters. I claimed that just visual genjutsu is not happening from that range. What manga evidence do you have to claim Raiton Armor requires tremendous amounts of chakra? There is none and I'm waiting to see if you bring up the Karin example. It shatters into crows and they are all electrocuted from his Raiton Armor.
Madara had 5 Susanoo who could pick Ay up and bring him to his eyes like he showed so you have no excuses. Susanoo alone couldn't kill Ay, which is why he used Genjutsu so your entire point here is invalid.
The technique is not offensive but it can be used offensively.
>Ay cut his own arm off with it:
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>It can electrify the people who Ay wants electrocuted:
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>You claim its gaseous, not physical, yet it deflects Chidori Katana:
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Ays Raiton having the properties to cut through flesh means it also has the properties to electrocute like Raiton does. Theres no reason to believe it'll have one property of the nature but lack the other. That makes no sense. I've posted the scans debunking your claims of it not being able to electrocute and it being gaseous. I'm claiming birds wont distract him because they all die from electrification. They aren't getting in his face, the Ration Armor kills them all when they're around his vicinity. I never said Itachis crows can't cast genjutsu, your putting words in my mouth to make your argument sound better. I have only claimed that the birds don't distract him because they get electrocuted. Anything else your mentioning is what you made up yourself.
I use facts, not assumptions. I tell the truth, not blatantly lie. I tell things how they are, not over exaggerate or make excuses. If thats called being a dumbfuks then I'll happily be one.
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FemmeFatale
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Gold Lightning
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2015 and people still think you need to bypass susanoo in order to beat a susanoo user.
Itachi is the worst example of all, because he can't even physically maintain susanoo. He can barely handle the strain of amaterasu itself, let alone susanoo.
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