[Discussion] Ace did not lose against Akainu and btw ace>>luffy still
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Uzumaki Macho
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[video=youtube;2ECI1otim38]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ECI1otim38[/video]
After their clash Akainu could have easily punched a hole through Ace, but he chose to torment Ace first by killing Luffy. Though Ace took the hit for Luffy.
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This comment is so stupid. Ace has been implied to have more potential than Luffy, to the point where WB chose him to become PK over everyone in his crew. Stick to wanking Zoro.
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I get what you're saying Ace never got one shotted in a straight up fight but would of still lost. He is a bad matchup for Akainu aswell
Uzumaki Macho
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Uzumaki Macho
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You don't get it, he trained with the World's Strongest Man for 3 years and didn't learn Haki or fully master his DF......Smh, stick to that Naruto discussion section.
Punk Hazard
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Usopp has great potential...lets make him the PK as well
Ace is overconfident fodder who doesnt even Busoshoku Haki(something which even fodder girl who hangs around Smoker)
Ace is Carribou with an OP devil fruit
Uzumaki Macho
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He lost against BB, who had just recently eaten his DF. Even if the Yami Yami no Mi is stronger than the Mera Mera no Mi, Ace still should have won if he mastered his DF since its also one of the best Logias. Other than that, I think that mastery of the Mera Mera no Mi will grant you blue fire.
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Uzumaki Macho
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There are several types of fire, in order from coldest to hottest: red, orange, yellow, then blue.
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So is Ace was pro he would become Marco without the ability to fly and become a bird?
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1. Marco already has blue fire, so I wouldn't bet on Oda ever incorporating that into the Mera Mera no Mi.
2. Teach studied the fruit for ages and we don't know how much time passed between Teach eating the fruit/leaving the crew, and Ace finding him. It's clear Teach had vast knowledge on the fruit, as he was after it for over 20 years, so it's most likely that he mastered his fruit. One complication that comes with mastering your fruit is not understanding the capabilities of using it. For example, mastering Kuma's fruit is gonna be wayyyyy easier than mastering Ivankov's. So understanding your fruit, like Teach did, will greatly aid in mastering your ability.
3. Mastery of your Devil Fruit doesn't mean you're gonna win. Luffy defeated Enel, Crocodile and Moriah, all of whom have mastered their Devil Fruits, before he mastered his. A Devil Fruit is only as strong as the wielder, look at Kaku who just had his fruit, and was able to fight on par with Zoro using it because he was already tough as hell. A novice with his fruit can beat an expert with another fruit.
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Uzumaki Macho
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Marco cant use the blue fire for big attacks. For example, he wouldn't be able to use a big attack like Hiken with blue fire like Sabo or Ace could if they fully mastered the MMnM
Uzumaki Macho
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1. Marco cant use his blue fire for huge attacks like Hiken, unlike a Sabo or Ace with DF mastery.
2. Ill give you that one, but I think that Ace should have been able to beat Teach with full DF mastery.
3. It doesn't matter how much Enel masted his DF, he would always lose to Luffy. The MMnM and YYnM don't have the same relationship as the Gomu Gumu no Mi and the Goro Goro no Mi. Luffy beat Croc with plot and Nico Robin. Luffy mastered his DF more than Moriah imo.
Punk Hazard
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1. Not the point. There's already blue fire stemming from a DF, making not very likely Oda will apply it to another one.
2. Well he didn't, and that's not a good reason to say Ace didn't master his DF.
3. Exactly. Enel, despite mastery of his fruit, lost to Luffy, who hadn't mastered his fruit, due to being inferior. Ace, even if he mastered his fruit, lost to Teach because he was inferior. The YYnM has that relationship with every DF, it can completely nullify them on contact. And Moriah showed no difficulty wielding his fruit's powers, while Luffy was still suffering from Gear 3 shrinkage, was incapable of localizing Gear 2, and was still left completely depleted of stamina afterwards.
Uzumaki Macho
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1. Its called the Fire-Fire Fruit, not the Every Fire But Blue Fruit. Oda has implemented DFs that are similar to others before.
3. The power for the Goro Goro no Mi has absolutely no effect on the Gomu Gomu no Mi, unlike the YYnM and MMnM, BB still has to touch the DF users and if he tries to pull them in, they can just use their DF to cause damage to BB. For example, if BB tries to use Kurozu on Akainu, he would get a hole in his chest. So Kurozu can sometimes hurt BB. For me the fact that Luffy developed Gear 2 and 3 is enough for me to believe he has better mastery of his DF.
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1. I'ts actually called the Mera Mera no Mi, which is just the sound fire makes, so it's not like it has to be all fire ever. Marco already has blue fire, that's pretty much all there is to it at this point.
3. Still missing the point. You're trying to make it sound like Enel was incapable of hurting or combating Luffy without his powers, that isn't true. The fact remains, a master of his DF lost to someone who hadn't mastered their DF.
Luffy didn't have better mastery because he was still suffering the side effects of his fruit's powers, his powers still had a negative backlash on him, while Moriah had no negative backlash or drawback. It's clear that Moriah had greater mastery of his fruit, as Luffy still:
-Suffered strain from Gear 2
-Suffered shrinkage from Gear 3
-Suffered even more strain from stacking the Gears
The fact that after the timeskip Luffy has improved Gear 2 and 3 to activate on some parts of his body, not carry a strain, and be active only for as long as he wants it to, not shrink and focus the infation so it can carry maximum power show he came nowhere close to even the term of mastery of his fruit, while Moriah was. The fact that I can name so many drawbacks for Luffy's usage of his fruit at the time and none for Moriah is more than enough proof of that.
Uzumaki Macho
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1. Miss Valentine has the Kilo Kilo no Mi, but that didn't stop Oda from giving Machvise his Super Weight Fruit. Mr.5 had the Bomu Bomu no Mi, but that didn't stop Oda from giving Gladius the Pamu Pamu no Mi. Fujitora's DF is similar to the YYnM since they both use gravity in their attacks, but I don't see you complaining about that. If Sabo gets blue fire, he would be able to use it on a large scale, unlike Marco who can only use it on a very small scale. Miss Valantine's and Machvise's are closer to similarity than the MMnM would be if it could use blue fire to Marco's DF, same with Gladius and Mr.5
3. As I said earlier I believe the fact that Luffy can use his gears, even if they harm his body puts him above Moriah, who needs Hogback to make his DF somewhat useful, in terms of DF mastery.