Does the theme of forgiveness in Naruto go too far?

[Tennis Robot]

Stop ignoring my words and pay attention.
Naruto is selfish and only cares about the Hokage title. That's the only reason why he praised him.
Besides the Hokage title, Naruto doesn't understand shit about Obito.
If Naruto was to perceive and understand someone then it would be Gaara, which he does.


It's more selfish to forget everyone that has been affected by a common enemy and choose to praise him regardless of what he did.
I wonder if those 50000+ Shinobi that were killed has anything to say about this. Of course not, because they are dead.


lol..
Obito could rape Kushina and kill Sakra and Naruto would still have a good reason to praise him, amirite? Lol


lmao..
I could be identical to a serial killer that nuked a church. Does that mean I have to praise him or that it is normal to praise him?
Dude stop.


What's admirable to you is completely nonsensical.

I probably shouldn't do this. And I'll warn everyone ahead of time that I’m the most inarticulate person ever so this will probably not come across as I intend it to. I’m sorry.

I get the feeling that you have never been through any deep emotional pain (or maybe you're overcompensating) or really gotten to know a person well enough to understand why they are the way they are. People want to have a purpose in life, a way of proving that they exist, a sense that they are necessary in someone else's life. When a person loses their purpose or begins to feel unneeded, they are met with essentially two choices. They can either run away from reality, remain alone, martyr themselves, and decide to hate everyone else for making them feel useless, or they can look inward, understand their own pain, and pick themselves back up with a new outlook on life. It is much easier to blame other people for your problems, to feel like the world is against you, to be the perpetual victim, and it is extremely difficult to escape from this mentality. It is much more difficult to truthfully evaluate yourself, acknowledge your shortcomings, and face your problems. If you haven’t been through it, you will have a hard time comprehending just how painful it is. Obito was able to do it though, after spending over half of his life hiding from reality. That warrants admiration.

 

[xcoyote]

I feel like readers using a goddamn work of fiction as a moral compass are the ones going too far.

 

[Tennis Robot]

I feel like readers using a goddamn work of fiction as a moral compass are the ones going too far.

The basis of literature is real life. People have been using literature as a moral compass for thousands of years.

 

[Xēnovia.]

Narujesus solos he can turn your water into wine. OP​

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

I feel like readers using a goddamn work of fiction as a moral compass are the ones going too far.

Who said anything about using the manga as a moral compass?

 

[Milastagram]

Its almost ridiculous. Kishi goes way too far with the theme

 

[NineSNS]

Forgiveness/redemption are not taken too far. They are two of the underlying themes of the manga. They are also elements necessary to end the cycle of hatred.

Redemption recognizes that nobody is 100% good or evil and that villains are capable of changing their actions to contribute to the greater good.

Forgiveness benefits the person on the receiving end of a malicious/harmful act by freeing them from ill feelings.

One is not dependent on the other, but both are necessary steps to end the cycle of hatred.

 

[Raijingan]

Forgiveness/redemption are not taken too far. They are two of the underlying themes of the manga. They are also elements necessary to end the cycle of hatred.

Redemption recognizes that nobody is 100% good or evil and that villains are capable of changing their actions to contribute to the greater good.

Forgiveness benefits the person on the receiving end of a malicious/harmful act by freeing them from ill feelings.

One is not dependent on the other, but both are necessary steps to end the cycle of hatred.

In my opinion, the cycle of hatred has never been a big theme in Naruto. It has been there yes, but to call it a theme that's taking it a bit far

 

[Tennis Robot]

In my opinion, the cycle of hatred has never been a big theme in Naruto. It has been there yes, but to call it a theme that's taking it a bit far

It has been by far the most prevalent theme in the manga since Obito was revealed...

 

[KidGamer65]

Yet because he was used despite knowing full well what he was doing Obito was forgiven.All those things he did?Like it never happened,and to top it off Naruto praised him as the greatest and ultimately he got everything he wanted in death.

And where did anyone forgive Obito? Naruto explicitly told him to come to their side and pay for his crimes. Naruto not acting like he hates Obito doesn't mean that he forgave Obito's actions. Naruto praised the past Obito as the greatest, not the murderer Obito.

Orochimaru is yet another example of what would happen if the theme of forgiveness takes it's course.He caused the deaths of the Fourth Kazekage and Third Hokage,experimented on countless people and attacked Konoha.

Would any sane person forgive Orochimaru despite knowing the things he's done?

And who in the world ever forgave this guy?

Madara looks like he's gonna be redeemed for everything in the future,this is despite him being behind everything Obito did.

Lmfao, based on what?

I could go on with other characters and their actions that caused untold death and pain but I made my point.Does the theme of forgiveness get applied too much?Is there a limit to how much a character can be redeemed?

You didn't even come close to making your point, considering Obito and Orochimaru were never forgiven, and nothing has implied that Madara has been forgiven either. Naruto accepting the help of Obito, and the Shinobi Alliance accepting Orochimaru's help in a time of war doesn't mean that their crimes have been forgiven.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

And where did anyone forgive Obito? Naruto explicitly told him to come to their side and pay for his crimes. Naruto not acting like he hates Obito doesn't mean that he forgave Obito's actions. Naruto praised the past Obito as the greatest, not the murderer Obito.



And who in the world ever forgave this guy?



Lmfao, based on what?



You didn't even come close to making your point, considering Obito and Orochimaru were never forgiven, and nothing has implied that Madara has been forgiven either. Naruto accepting the help of Obito, and the Shinobi Alliance accepting Orochimaru's help in a time of war doesn't mean that their crimes have been forgiven.

Everyone knows Madara will be redeemed just like Obito,it's only a matter of time.

Kishi made it perfectly clear that Obito was forgiven for his crimes when he had him reunite with Rin in the afterlife,that means everyone else will as well.Same thing goes for Orochimaru whose reasons for helping were only questioned by Hiruzen during the war.

 

[KidGamer65]

Everyone knows Madara will be redeemed just like Obito,it's only a matter of time.

1. "Everyone knows" isn't an argument, or even a logical prediction.

2. A Character redeeming themselves doesn't mean that they've been forgiven. This thread is about the concept of forgiveness, not the concept of character's redeeming themselves.

 

[Raijingan]

It has been by far the most prevalent theme in the manga since Obito was revealed...

Well, just because they are talking about it all the time, that the world is full of hate and such, it doesn't mean that you buy it. It feels kind of forced to me. Like if they suddenly starts talking about how much poverty it is in the ninja world, and keep talking about it for 100 chapters.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

1. "Everyone knows" isn't an argument, or even a logical prediction.

2. A Character redeeming themselves doesn't mean that they've been forgiven. This thread is about the concept of forgiveness, not the concept of character's redeeming themselves.

Redemption and forgiveness go hand in hand in this series,every time a character redeemed him/herself their past actions were all forgiven.

With the way Madara was used and betrayed by BZ Kishi is obviously setting him up to be turned good again.It happened with Obito before.

 

[KidGamer65]

Redemption and forgiveness go hand in hand in this series,every time a character redeemed him/herself their past actions were all forgiven.

Um, since when?

-Orochimaru was NOT forgiven.

-Obito was NOT forgiven.

With the way Madara was used and betrayed by BZ Kishi is obviously setting him up to be turned good again.It happened with Obito before.

Like I said, that doesn't meant he's going to be forgiven.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Um, since when?

-Orochimaru was NOT forgiven.

-Obito was NOT forgiven.



Like I said, that doesn't meant he's going to be forgiven.

So why is Obito in the afterlife with Rin then?Kishi would'nt have done that if he did'nt consider Obito to be forgiven,hell not even Rin brought up any of the things he did and was perfectly happy to see him.

 

[GhostProject]

Forgiveness I believe is an excellent thing in this manga. Most of the characters seem to be redeemed in an honest way.

However, do not mix up forgiveness with justice. Naruto wanted Obito to come back to the village, however, he told him that he had to face his punishment. Naruto accepted Obito, but it is not Naruto's place to forgive him for all of his crimes and Naruto knew that.

Obito decided to die like a hero and that was his repentance. Naruto said he was the coolest guy because Naruto knew Obito's nature, and that's why he could say something like that. Obito faced his fate head on for the sake of others, and that is redemption worthy of forgiveness. He won't be remembered as the good guy by most, but he did his best with the time he had left.

 

[NineSNS]

In my opinion, the cycle of hatred has never been a big theme in Naruto. It has been there yes, but to call it a theme that's taking it a bit far

I agree that the cycle of hatred isn't itself a main theme. Forgiveness and redemption are. Doesn't the story begin with Naruto as an outcast who really just wants to redeem himself in the eyes of the village? Doesn't Sasuke and his pursuit of vengeance also parallel the theme of forgiveness (or rather run in opposition to it?) by demonstrating that it consumes the avenger with hatred and perpetuates conflict?

 

[KidGamer65]

So why is Obito in the afterlife with Rin then?Kishi would'nt have done that if he did'nt consider Obito to be forgiven,hell not even Rin brought up any of the things he did and was perfectly happy to see him.

How is Obito being in the afterlife evidence that he's been forgiven? Rin not hating him doesn't mean that she forgave him. In fact she wasn't even involved with all this stuff personally as she wasn't alive to witness it, she was just Obito's trigger. How would she know of what he's done from the afterlife anyway?

What implies that Obito has been forgiven? Naruto and Kakashi wanting Obito to pay the price for his crimes is clear cut evidence that he wasn't forgiven.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

^Rin said she was watching Obito.