1. The clans were for hire so they would fight against each other, not the villages. What I mean is that even if they hired them the clans were the ones doing the actual fighting. So yes, the clans were fighting against one another. Their motives for doing it doesn’t matter, the important thing is that the Uchiha and Senju were considered the strongest of all the clans.
2.
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Hyuuga weren’t on top until the massacre. Not to mention, Kakashi was really scared just for facing someone with the Sharingan in their blood.
3.
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Ok, I may have exaggerated a bit when saying they were all geniuses, but it’s basically the same concept. The eye is what makes them elite. Just look at how much Obito improved as soon as he got the Sharingan.
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Then there’s this saying that they were superior to others in the village, including the Hyuuga.
4.
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The Uchiha were held in high regards and yet Itachi was the only one considered a genius within the clan. This can be seen by the constant praise he was given, while Sauce was never really given attention.
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It was expected for them to get such grades. Sasuke had more potential in that he had better eyes, and better chakra.
5. You were the one to bring up geniuses. The point I was trying to make was that the Uchiha have higher standards of what they consider a genius. Comparing Itachi and Neji was how I was making the point. Neji is considered a genius in the Hyuuga, but he pales in comparison to Itachi, a man considered a genius in the Uchiha, what does that tell you about the clans strength as a whole?
6. I never said Sasuke wasn’t a genius, I said he wasn’t considered one in his clan. For example, A man who is from a family of geniuses wouldn’t be given much attention if he got an A on a hard test, but if in school the students around him are more likely to call him a genius. I don’t know if I explained that correctly <.< .
7. I’m sorry if my other post, or even this one doesn’t make sense. It’s kind of hard for me to explain what I want to say when I’m in a hurry. But the point was that the Sharingan is what makes the Uchiha so strong, sure there are geniuses now and again, but even when there aren’t they remain at the top because of the Sharingan.
A) All Clans are hired to fight other Clans
B) Clans are being hired by who? Village
C) Villages are composed off... Clans
So All Clans are fighing but at the same time Clans are hiring other Clans to fight for them... Contradictions ftw!
2) "This should be interesting" equates to being really scared?
3) Yes, the sharingan is a helpful tool. The Question is to what extent. If we had to give blame to why he was good between the Eye and anything else. What ratio would we have? 80% Eye/20% Everything else? 30%Everything else/70% Eye? How much of his skill do you say is because of the Sharingan...
4) Sasuke wasnt given much praise because when Itachi was Sasuke's age he had already passed the Chunin Exam. Itachi truly was a great ninja. Saying they didnt praise Sasuke in comparison to Itachi because Skills like Sasuke's were expected is misleading.
5) I am done talking about Genius's, Who Genius's are and what they do. Idk why this one detail is being harped on so much... Lets get back to the basics here:
Which eye led it's clan to be above all others?
Which eye was so feared that it had a flee on sight order?
Which eye could be so strong that even if not every member of the clan had it, they'd still be the strongest.
Sharingan >Byakugan and it's obvious.
It has done all this and with only 6 Uchiha's ever getting past the 3 tomoe.
The Uchiha clan was the strongest, because of 3 tomoe, or maybe even lesser Sharingan. They were always stronger than the Hyuuga, who actually have every member born with the eye.
Uchiha>>Hyuuga on average meaning that the average Uchiha member> the average Hyuuga member.
Not even Kishi cares enough to fully address the eye.
The above statement is meaningless in light of this thread. Because at the very start of my thread I say this:
Who would win in a fight between The Byakugan and The Sharingan, with this thread I am going to list several reasons as to why I think the Byakugan beats the Sharingan in a 1 on 1 fight ergo is better than the Sharingan
Meaning I am not comparing the clans or anything like that. I am saying if 2 Ninja, equal in speed, mentality and strength. Fought each other, who would win. I then go on to explain how every aresenal the Sharingan has can more or less be countered by the Byakugan. So lets start from there.
This whole topic is filled with posts of people who disagree with this comparison. I decided to keep it simple, instead of wasting time writing down an useless wall of text explaining the obvious. I deliberately refused to bother reading the first post, because whatever ass-pull or flawed logic it tries to bring into this discussion by comparing Sharingan with the Byakugan is just a waste of time. Like it or not, you know I'm right.
Lol, There is a certain amount of arrogance some people have. You say one thing, I say another, but your right and I am wrong. If you have a problem with the logic I have used them feel free to point it out. But you dont want to do that, you would rather throw ad hominems and backwards insults in order to try and give the appearance that you have the slightest clue of what your talking about.
Like a magician waving his hands to keep anyone from noticing the trick door.
Which do you think is stronger?
In which context-both eyes have different benefits that may be more usefull or not depending on the situation.
In general, if we are discussing combat the best way to see which eye is better is to compare their characteristics.
Lets compare two fighters one with the sharingan and the other with the byakugan-in order for this example to be accurate there can only be one variable, so everything about both fighters is the same (inteligence, chakra control, speed, techniques etc) except for their eyes .
-The winner should be obvious
If both ninjas are taijustu based-Sharingan slaughters ( In the VOTE 3 tomoa sharingan easily beat naruto with the kyubi aura-consdiering that without the sharinagan he couldnot even see naruto move- naruto was several times faster than he was, however even with overwhelming speed sasuke faught against naruto and was winning ( I am talking about when sasuke first awakened the 3 tomaoa sharingan)
This fight proved that even if you are faster, a 3 tomoa has enough precog to win the battle, since both combatints have the same stats, they have the same speed- and because the sharingan provides precog - you need to be several times faster or more skilled to hit your opponent. So, in a battle of taijustu- two ninja with the same stats ( different doujustu) the sharingan user will win- because the byakugan user would be unable to hit his opponent- assuming both ninja have the same skills.
Neithor doujustu gives a significant advantage in ninjustu beccause both ninja have the same skills only that the sharingan user has better reaction time- which gives the win
In a genjustu battle, the sharingan is said to allow the user to cast powerful genjustu, however, since the hyguas see chakra it has been theorized that they can break out- so it is a tie- slightly in sharingan favour because it has better feats.
so, in combat 3 tomoa sharingan is roughly equal to the byakugan- slighty better in most situations
However, since we are debating the manga we use all the knowledge given. -so we assume the byakugan has no more stages.
Unfortunatly for the byakugan, sharingan users warp reality (izanami) and control fate ( izanagi)- furthermore they get access to powerfull exclusive justu.-so, if two comabtents all exaclty equal in speed,inteligence,techniques-the one with the hidden ability ( trump card) is likely to win.
Laslty, the sharingan gets even stronger it has a EMS form. Furthermore, under special conditions, it evolves again into a rinnegan.
In conclusion, 3 tomoa is slightly better in combat, but once you start including its higheer forms/abilties it is massively better than a byakugan.
In a fight where everything is the same except doujustu's- a 3 tomoa user wins 6/10 times ( depends nin, gen or tai, justu specialty, a mangekou user wins 9/10, a EMS user wins 10/10 times no diffiicutly- a rinigan user wins 10/10 times without trying.
Think about it, what is scarier- a clan that warps reality, has photographic memory, has access to incrdibly powerful techniques ( kamui,amaterasu,susanoo-the strongest genjustu,fire ninjustu, and defense known) - or a clan that can see for 10 kilometers in all directions, and can see you chakra flow.
Lets give statistics, lets say you have 100 uchiha and 100 hyuga- if alll 200 ninja reach their potential, you end up with 100 uchiha with differnt and unique but powerful abilties or 100 hyuga who are best off specializing in one thing.
1. The clans didn't begin to join a village until after Hashirama created Konoha. They were hired, but by other organizations.
2. I was talking about when Kakashi first faces Itachi. He literally looks like he's going to crap his pants just for facing a true Sharingan user.
3.Like I said, just look at Obito. He went from a zero to a hero immediately after awakening the Sharingan. You could also look at Sasuke during V.O.T.E, he started dominating Naruto as soon as he got 3 tomoe.
4. True, but he would have still been given attention if he was a genius. This is evident when his dad began to praise him for performing the Katon.
5. Sure, I guess.
6. I get that you tried to make this into a battle, but it doesn't matter. Simply because the average Uchiha member would have to be compared to a more experienced, and skilled person from the Hyuuga. What I mean is that you would have to get a strong Hyuuga to compare them to an average Uchiha member.
The Uchiha are already superior to every other shinobi, that's including the fodder Uchiha.
7. At this point comparing them becomes moot. It would be like comparing Orochimar (part 1) to Itachi after he openly admitted inferiority. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who could argue Orochimaru's victory, but it's canon that he would lose, so it doesn't matter. It's the same concept with this because the Uchiha are already canonically superior to the other shinobi individually, that's including the Hyuuga.
Lol, There is a certain amount of arrogance some people have. You say one thing, I say another, but your right and I am wrong. If you have a problem with the logic I have used them feel free to point it out. But you dont want to do that, you would rather throw ad hominems and backwards insults in order to try and give the appearance that you have the slightest clue of what your talking about.
Like a magician waving his hands to keep anyone from noticing the trick door.
I'm not arrogant at all, I'm just trying to point out the truth. Look, I can understand that it sucks to not be agreed, but my opinion is my opinion, and like it or not, it's the same opinion of most people of this topic. Look on the first page, everyone chose Sharingan without caring about giving you an explanation, or answering your theory, because it's plain obvious. You just don't want to accept this for whatever reason, this is what I pointed out when I said "flawed logic"
I don't have a clue what I'm talking about? So does that mean that everyone who chose Sharingan and didn't give a shit about your theory is doing the same?
Which do you think is stronger?
In which context-both eyes have different benefits that may be more usefull or not depending on the situation.
In general, if we are discussing combat the best way to see which eye is better is to compare their characteristics.
Lets compare two fighters one with the sharingan and the other with the byakugan-in order for this example to be accurate there can only be one variable, so everything about both fighters is the same (inteligence, chakra control, speed, techniques etc) except for their eyes .
-The winner should be obvious
If both ninjas are taijustu based-Sharingan slaughters ( In the VOTE 3 tomoa sharingan easily beat naruto with the kyubi aura-consdiering that without the sharinagan he couldnot even see naruto move- naruto was several times faster than he was, however even with overwhelming speed sasuke faught against naruto and was winning ( I am talking about when sasuke first awakened the 3 tomaoa sharingan)
This fight proved that even if you are faster, a 3 tomoa has enough precog to win the battle, since both combatints have the same stats, they have the same speed- and because the sharingan provides precog - you need to be several times faster or more skilled to hit your opponent. So, in a battle of taijustu- two ninja with the same stats ( different doujustu) the sharingan user will win- because the byakugan user would be unable to hit his opponent- assuming both ninja have the same skills.
Neithor doujustu gives a significant advantage in ninjustu beccause both ninja have the same skills only that the sharingan user has better reaction time- which gives the win
In a genjustu battle, the sharingan is said to allow the user to cast powerful genjustu, however, since the hyguas see chakra it has been theorized that they can break out- so it is a tie- slightly in sharingan favour because it has better feats.
so, in combat 3 tomoa sharingan is roughly equal to the byakugan- slighty better in most situations
However, since we are debating the manga we use all the knowledge given. -so we assume the byakugan has no more stages.
Unfortunatly for the byakugan, sharingan users warp reality (izanami) and control fate ( izanagi)- furthermore they get access to powerfull exclusive justu.-so, if two comabtents all exaclty equal in speed,inteligence,techniques-the one with the hidden ability ( trump card) is likely to win.
Laslty, the sharingan gets even stronger it has a EMS form. Furthermore, under special conditions, it evolves again into a rinnegan.
In conclusion, 3 tomoa is slightly better in combat, but once you start including its higheer forms/abilties it is massively better than a byakugan.
In a fight where everything is the same except doujustu's- a 3 tomoa user wins 6/10 times ( depends nin, gen or tai, justu specialty, a mangekou user wins 9/10, a EMS user wins 10/10 times no diffiicutly- a rinigan user wins 10/10 times without trying.
Think about it, what is scarier- a clan that warps reality, has photographic memory, has access to incrdibly powerful techniques ( kamui,amaterasu,susanoo-the strongest genjustu,fire ninjustu, and defense known) - or a clan that can see for 10 kilometers in all directions, and can see you chakra flow.
Lets give statistics, lets say you have 100 uchiha and 100 hyuga- if alll 200 ninja reach their potential, you end up with 100 uchiha with differnt and unique but powerful abilties or 100 hyuga who are best off specializing in one thing.
I Disagree with your entire Flow of Logic, and with that said I can tell you didnt fully read my thread:
1) No, It has already been proven by Rock Lee that just because you can see it coming doesnt mean you can dodge it. You are still limited to your bodies reflex's. On top of which you cannot forget that the Byakugan allows one insight into the opponent, that added with the ability to read chakra amounts to an advantage in taijustsu, as body position and stance reveals ones intent. Look over Neji's fight with Hinata, and that is the Byakugan in the hands of a Genin.
2) I explain how the Byakugan can also predict Ninjutsu as well as the Sharingan since their predictive abilities are based on the same concept. The only difference is we have seen the Sharingan exploit it while we have scene little development from the byakugan.
3) I dont see how the Sharingan is slightly favored, it seems like this whole rating system of yours is extremely arbritrary.
4) I disagree with your premises thus disagreeing with this conclusion.
5) All of the rest of your response is already discussed in my thread, which I am sure you did not read.
1. The clans didn't begin to join a village until after Hashirama created Konoha. They were hired, but by other organizations.
2. I was talking about when Kakashi first faces Itachi. He literally looks like he's going to crap his pants just for facing a true Sharingan user.
3.Like I said, just look at Obito. He went from a zero to a hero immediately after awakening the Sharingan. You could also look at Sasuke during V.O.T.E, he started dominating Naruto as soon as he got 3 tomoe.
4. True, but he would have still been given attention if he was a genius. This is evident when his dad began to praise him for performing the Katon.
5. Sure, I guess.
6. I get that you tried to make this into a battle, but it doesn't matter. Simply because the average Uchiha member would have to be compared to a more experienced, and skilled person from the Hyuuga. What I mean is that you would have to get a strong Hyuuga to compare them to an average Uchiha member.
The Uchiha are already superior to every other shinobi, that's including the fodder Uchiha.
7. At this point comparing them becomes moot. It would be like comparing Orochimar (part 1) to Itachi after he openly admitted inferiority. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who could argue Orochimaru's victory, but it's canon that he would lose, so it doesn't matter. It's the same concept with this because the Uchiha are already canonically superior to the other shinobi individually, that's including the Hyuuga.
1) Organizations... Which you just made up? Where did these Organizations live? In.. Villages? Who make up these Organizations? Clans... Just another way of Dancing around your contradictory logic. On one side your saying All of the Clans were envolved in fighting and then out of the other side of your mouth you imply that Clans were hiring other clans to fight for them.
2) No.. he was crapping his pants from facing Itachi. The Genius Uchiha who graduated the Academy at the age of 6.
3) If he was a "Hero" he wouldnt have died to the rock. If Sasuke's Sharingan was so great his fight with a Lazy naruto that only knows 2 Jutsu's wouldnt have been so close. I am not saying the Sharingan isnt a good tool. But your saying that it is some incredible thing that turns regular people into unstoppable forces, which isnt the case.
4) First off the praise wouldnt even make sense within the context of the conversation, secondly it is obvious that Sasuke is not on Itachi's level, clearly, He was defeated by a Sick and Dying Itachi who died from his illness during there battle. But by all means, since Sasuke wasnt praised for being a genius, therefore all the Uchiha members were Genius's.. "Fallacy of Composition", google the term.
5) First off let me address another one of your contradictions "The Uchiha are superior to all Ninja, Including the Fodder Uchiha" But Fodder Uchiha are Uchiha. There for the Uchiha are superior to all ninja including the Uchiha... The number 100 is greater than all numbers including 100??? It doesnt make any sense. But to move on I will re-address my opening statement. I could care less about the "Uchiha being Superior" which I dont agree with but that is neither here nor there. We are comparing the eyes, If you want to compare 2 different engines, you dont put the 2 engines in 2 completely different cars and race them.. You put them into the same cars and test them. If you want to test eyes, you dont Put Madara vs Hinata and then say the winner has the better eyes. You compare Madara with a Sharingan vs Madara with a Byakugan and say the winner has the better eyes.
6) No the Uchiha arent, Sasuke, Itachi, Madara and Obito are.. But the Uchiha as a whole arent. Im sure those 3 Ninja that Itachi beat up for questioning him arent superior, you know the ones who refer to as the Inferior Uchiha.. You know the Police men that represented the strongest Uchiha.. What you are doing is again known as the Fallacy of Composition. It is when you take a fact about a part of a collection and make it true of the collection. For example "The Lettuce in a Hamburger is a Healthy for you, therefore hamburgers are healthy for you" "Itachi and a few other Uchiha were strong, therefore ALL the Uchiha were strong" but we know this to not be the case, we know for a fact that Itachi was just flat out superior, he beat 3 of the Uchiha Police force without breaking a sweat and killed the entire clan in 1 night with little resistance.
The fact of the matter is you clan that the Uchiha being "Superior" is canon, but it actually isnt. And the most important thing is that you insult Sasuke, Obito, Madara and Itachi when you do that. They are not strong because they are Uchiha, them being Uchiha and having Sharingans have something to do with their strength, but it is not the sole source. They were driven Ninja who trained hard and fought harder and became really strong as a result. Turning around and blaming their strenght on the fact that they are Uchiha is only diminishing the amount of work they did.
So it comes back to what I said before "Do the eyes make the man, or do the man make the eyes" I believe Black Zetsu said it best when he said "The Sharingan is just a tool, the tool is only as powerful as the shinobi that uses it. An expert with a stone can still beat a novice with a shuriken." Now THAT is canon and THAT directly backs up what I have said. The Man makes the eyes, the Eyes dont make the man.
I'm not arrogant at all, I'm just trying to point out the truth. Look, I can understand that it sucks to not be agreed, but my opinion is my opinion, and like it or not, it's the same opinion of most people of this topic. Look on the first page, everyone chose Sharingan without caring about giving you an explanation, or answering your theory, because it's plain obvious. You just don't want to accept this for whatever reason, this is what I pointed out when I said "flawed logic"
I don't have a clue what I'm talking about? So does that mean that everyone who chose Sharingan and didn't give a shit about your theory is doing the same?
This is what your not understanding, you dont disagree with me, you cant, because you dont understand my argument. You dont understand my argument because you didnt read my thread. To say you disagree with my thread without reading it is like me saying I dont like the taste of Pizza when ive never eaten a Pizza.
Next you say that I should look at the first page and see that everyone is saying the Sharingan is better without even caring about my explanation. But that is just ignorance, by your own words. And you keep bringing up flawed logic, if logic is flawed then it should be easy to point out how. But you havent done that, you just continue to waste my time.
Lastly you say "I don't have a clue what I'm talking about? So does that mean that everyone who chose Sharingan and didn't give a shit about your theory is doing the same?" . Im not saying you dont have a clue what your talking about because you choose Sharingan, thats just more of your impressive deductive skills at work. I am saying you dont have a clue because you dont, by your OWN TESTIMONY you have not read my thread and chose not to. So how can you begin to have the slightest idea of what I am talking about if you didnt read what I am talking about.
Fan Boys like you are an embarrassment of riches. Im so happy I actually knew a person like you, and with that said this conversation is over. If you chose not to read my thread that is ok, I dont mind. But until you do your opinion invalid. Because it is based on something I dont represent. Bye.
You sir are mistaken. Like I said he didnt dodge the attack, im not even sure how you can dodge an attack when both people are in the air, he deflected the attack which is a completely different thing. If your in the air and someone jumps at you, deflecting the attack isnt very hard. I dont see how that is your big proof that the Sharingan predicting abilities are great especially given that Sasuke caught 6 swords to the chest at point blank range from Bee and didnt see it coming.
The thing about the Sharingan is that you predict what someone is going to do as soon as the persons muscles tense up. As soon as the Raikage lunges forward to grab him then yes I expect him to dodge or move or do anything a sensible person would do to avoid the grab. And no sasuke didnt dodge his first attack, the attack was a bluff allowing the Raikage to get close to sasuke, he let sasuke hit him assuming he wouldnt get past his raiton shroud and then went for the liager bomb. This is backed up by the fact that Raikage was surprised by sasukes chidori blade actually scratching him and by shi saying no one has ever escaped raikages liager bomb, which is ofcourse his strongest move.
How have I been proven wrong? Elaborate?
I guess he predicted this too, or maybe you cant dodge swords flying at your body?
dumb dumb bee slashes cant be completely blocked because it's wild and unorthodox even a swordsman like suigetsu spoke on it
this is y itachi selected to run unlike sasuke who block for a while anyways bee himself stated it was non fatal due to sasuke
a hyuga wouldve never block any of the swords period
a grabbed sasuke after tanking chidori
sasuke was feeling backlash of ms when bee landed his lariat
the sharingan doesnt need 2 see the network it can see the element/type of chakra before hand it can see on a nano level and see the build up of chakra
its proven to be leagues above as far as battle is concern
dumb dumb bee slashes cant be completely blocked because it's wild and unorthodox even a swordsman like suigetsu spoke on it
this is y itachi selected to run unlike sasuke who block for a while anyways bee himself stated it was non fatal due to sasuke
a hyuga wouldve never block any of the swords period
a grabbed sasuke after tanking chidori
sasuke was feeling backlash of ms when bee landed his lariat
the sharingan doesnt need 2 see the network it can see the element/type of chakra before hand it can see on a nano level and see the build up of chakra
its proven to be leagues above as far as battle is concern
I understand very little of what your trying to say. All I said with this scan was this:
A) Everyone thinks the Sharingan gives you the ability to see and dodge all attacks
B) Sasuke didnt See/Dodge this attack
c) Therefore proposition A is incorrect.
This is what your not understanding, you dont disagree with me, you cant, because you dont understand my argument. You dont understand my argument because you didnt read my thread. To say you disagree with my thread without reading it is like me saying I dont like the taste of Pizza when ive never eaten a Pizza.
Next you say that I should look at the first page and see that everyone is saying the Sharingan is better without even caring about my explanation. But that is just ignorance, by your own words. And you keep bringing up flawed logic, if logic is flawed then it should be easy to point out how. But you havent done that, you just continue to waste my time.
Lastly you say "I don't have a clue what I'm talking about? So does that mean that everyone who chose Sharingan and didn't give a shit about your theory is doing the same?" . Im not saying you dont have a clue what your talking about because you choose Sharingan, thats just more of your impressive deductive skills at work. I am saying you dont have a clue because you dont, by your OWN TESTIMONY you have not read my thread and chose not to. So how can you begin to have the slightest idea of what I am talking about if you didnt read what I am talking about.
Fan Boys like you are an embarrassment of riches. Im so happy I actually knew a person like you, and with that said this conversation is over. If you chose not to read my thread that is ok, I dont mind. But until you do your opinion invalid. Because it is based on something I dont represent. Bye.
What's worse is that I bothered reading your post, and that's why the logic is flawed. But yeah, you're right, it's not needed for us to discuss such a thing. First you pick on me for choosing the same obvious thing the others have, and then come and say that I'm the one ignorant. Embarrassment? Sorry dude, but I just had to read 1 single page of this topic to see how your "deductive logic" has been perceived. I don't even need to bother for more, thanks. I already understand where you're coming from. My role was basically to transmit you the same message the others are trying, through wasting time on making up theories against yours. I'm here just to say it directly to you instead of them: your logic is flawed. Read again all posts of this topic and you'll interpret them differently after you've read my post.
This is so far from the truth. If your trying to buy a gun, and your choosing between 2 guns and I give you all the details on one and none on the other. Did I portray one to be superior? Of course not, I just told you about one and didn't tell you about the other. Its bad logic like this that gets to me.
As far as the Susan'o section I believe I start it off with a HUGE disclaimer which you no doubt missed... but I will post it here anyways:
Now with that Last Clarification I am going to try to humor the arguement of whether or not the Byakugan can beat MS or Susan'o. Keep in mind as to how unlikely it is that a Byakugan user will face a MS/EMS user and also keep in mind that the Byakugan can also have a 2nd stage that just hasn't been announced yet. MS/EMS is a secret family technique, but the Hyuga clans secret techniques haven't been revealed yet. With that lets move on to the Sharingans Advantages
Basically this says "I know that EMS and Susano are really strong abilities and it would be nearly impossible for me to adequatly counter them without having full knowledge of the Byakugan. We have barely seen anything so far and just like the Sharingan has secret techniques the Byakugan does too. But I am going to try and work with the little information I have about the Byakugan and build a unlikely yet plausible argument against said Sharingan abilities"
What's worse is that I bothered reading your post, and that's why the logic is flawed. But yeah, you're right, it's not needed for us to discuss such a thing. First you pick on me for choosing the same obvious thing the others have, and then come and say that I'm the one ignorant. Embarrassment? Sorry dude, but I just had to read 1 single page of this topic to see how your "deductive logic" has been perceived. I don't even need to bother for more, thanks. I already understand where you're coming from. My role was basically to transmit you the same message the others are trying, through wasting time on making up theories against yours. I'm here just to say it directly to you instead of them: your logic is flawed. Read again all posts of this topic and you'll interpret them differently after you've read my post.
Show me where it says that in the manga, or where Kishi says that... You cant, because it isnt there. This is just you stating your opinion as if it were a fact. Which makes me lose respect for you and your argument.
I'm not. You just picked on me for telling you directly that you should just stop trying to convince everyone of your opinion. Everyone says Sharingan is above Byakugan, you're the only one who tries so hard to say otherwise. No offense, but this is like that saying "It's more likely 1 stupid person than 30" and I'm not pointing at you.
I Disagree with your entire Flow of Logic, and with that said I can tell you didnt fully read my thread:
1) No, It has already been proven by Rock Lee that just because you can see it coming doesnt mean you can dodge it. You are still limited to your bodies reflex's. On top of which you cannot forget that the Byakugan allows one insight into the opponent, that added with the ability to read chakra amounts to an advantage in taijustsu, as body position and stance reveals ones intent. Look over Neji's fight with Hinata, and that is the Byakugan in the hands of a Genin.
2) I explain how the Byakugan can also predict Ninjutsu as well as the Sharingan since their predictive abilities are based on the same concept. The only difference is we have seen the Sharingan exploit it while we have scene little development from the byakugan.
3) I dont see how the Sharingan is slightly favored, it seems like this whole rating system of yours is extremely arbritrary.
4) I disagree with your premises thus disagreeing with this conclusion.
5) All of the rest of your response is already discussed in my thread, which I am sure you did not read.
Yes, I will concede that going off of conjecture the byakugan should be relatively as powerfull as the sharingan- considering all the hype it got in part 1
However
-With current knowledge a complete sharingan (EMS) is superior to a byakugan
-Sure, the sharingan is much harder to complete than it is to use the byakugan, but exclusivity doesnot make it a weaker doujustu ( just more rare).
Perhaps you can say that the average byakugan is better than the average sharingan but that doesnot make it a superior doujustu-given manga knowledge it is obvious that the known pinnacle of the sharingan is greater than the known pinnacle of the byakugan ( I am going off of the known manga -not hypothethis)
1) you keep citing that event but its bogus. -lee proved that if you are several times faster than a sharingan user you can still hit them. So sure, if we are comparing a really fast byakugan user to a slow sharingan user- the byakugon will win- but if we are comparing two individuals of equal ability -the sharingan user will win.
-show me a panel where it says the byakugan provides superior reflexes than the sharingan does-the sharingan allows its user to dodge and react to individuals faster than them ( not to much faster)- never did it say a byakugan user precognitive abilties is equal to a sharingan users. Sure it has them, but not superior than a sharingan users precog.
2) Sharingans users can predict ninjustu - so sure ill concede to your point about byakugan users.
At best all you can say is the average byakugan > average sharingan
However, based off of Manga fact the Sharingan is superior. Sure, it is more exlusive, but the strongest form of sharingan is better than the strongest form of byakugan we have seen.
It is so powerfull and rare that we have only seen two EMS.
For sasuke - EMS grants sasuke v3 susanoo - all it takes is a full enton arrows to defeat every hyuga feat in the manga.
For madara - EMS grants ability to summon susanoo that has the cutting power to destroy mountains- defeats every known hyuga feat
Furthermore, EMS allows the user to control tailed beasts. All a EMS user has to do is capture a tailed beast- and use it to defeat any byakugan user.
This is when the clans began to form villages, before this moment no clan was part of a village.
2.
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Doesn't really say anything about Itachi, just that it's a true successor of the Sharingan. It isn't until later in the fight that he says something about him directly.
3. Obito willingly got hurt to save Kakashi. Sasuke was able to fight against a kyuubi powered Naruto because of 3 tomoe- Neji lost to Naruto with a little Kyuubi chakra.
4. What? Dude, I didn't mean that Sasuke would have to get praised at that very second. Yeah, that's the whole point, at that point Sasuke wasn't on Itachi's level, Itachi was the prodigy. All Uchiha's have higher expectations is the whole point. Did you not see the kids talking about Sasuke simply because from the Uchiha clan?
5. You're over complicating things man. Itachi was talking about Uchiha, he wasn't including them with the other shinobi. Ok, now I see what you mean. I meant to say that even the weaklings Uchiha are above the weaklings of the other shinobi.
It doesn't matter though, let's use your analogy. If a car is praised for it's engine #1 and is said to be faster than all the other cars-assuming this is a fact, as it is in the manga- then what would be the point of comparing it to engine #2 that people have already put it above.
6.
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Were those three not in the police force? Did Itachi not say that only superior shinobi could deal with shinobi crimes? Almost all of the Uchiha clan was in the Police, and considering that not all Uchiha had the Sharingan i'm willing to bet that the ones that did were the ones in there. Neither, Obito nor Madara, nor Sasuke were there at the time or were still children. Are you comparing one of the strongest Uchiha ever to regular Uchiha's in attempt to discredit their superiority against other non-Uchihas?
7. I never insulted anyone.
8. There does exist such a thing as a better tool. Isn't that what you're trying to prove? The better tool created the better clan.
Yes, I will concede that going off of conjecture the byakugan should be relatively as powerfull as the sharingan- considering all the hype it got in part 1
However
-With current knowledge a complete sharingan (EMS) is superior to a byakugan
-Sure, the sharingan is much harder to complete than it is to use the byakugan, but exclusivity doesnot make it a weaker doujustu ( just more rare).
Perhaps you can say that the average byakugan is better than the average sharingan but that doesnot make it a superior doujustu-given manga knowledge it is obvious that the known pinnacle of the sharingan is greater than the known pinnacle of the byakugan ( I am going off of the known manga -not hypothethis)
1) you keep citing that event but its bogus. -lee proved that if you are several times faster than a sharingan user you can still hit them. So sure, if we are comparing a really fast byakugan user to a slow sharingan user- the byakugon will win- but if we are comparing two individuals of equal ability -the sharingan user will win.
-show me a panel where it says the byakugan provides superior reflexes than the sharingan does-the sharingan allows its user to dodge and react to individuals faster than them ( not to much faster)- never did it say a byakugan user precognitive abilties is equal to a sharingan users. Sure it has them, but not superior than a sharingan users precog.
2) Sharingans users can predict ninjustu - so sure ill concede to your point about byakugan users.
At best all you can say is the average byakugan > average sharingan
However, based off of Manga fact the Sharingan is superior. Sure, it is more exlusive, but the strongest form of sharingan is better than the strongest form of byakugan we have seen.
It is so powerfull and rare that we have only seen two EMS.
For sasuke - EMS grants sasuke v3 susanoo - all it takes is a full enton arrows to defeat every hyuga feat in the manga.
For madara - EMS grants ability to summon susanoo that has the cutting power to destroy mountains- defeats every known hyuga feat
Furthermore, EMS allows the user to control tailed beasts. All a EMS user has to do is capture a tailed beast- and use it to defeat any byakugan user.
Yes, I will concede that going off of conjecture the byakugan should be relatively as powerfull as the sharingan- considering all the hype it got in part 1
However
-With current knowledge a complete sharingan (EMS) is superior to a byakugan
-Sure, the sharingan is much harder to complete than it is to use the byakugan, but exclusivity doesnot make it a weaker doujustu ( just more rare).
Perhaps you can say that the average byakugan is better than the average sharingan but that doesnot make it a superior doujustu-given manga knowledge it is obvious that the known pinnacle of the sharingan is greater than the known pinnacle of the byakugan ( I am going off of the known manga -not hypothethis)
^ Your arguing with yourself for this entire part of your response. I never claim any of the things you say above here. Google the term "Straw Man Fallacy"
1) You can call it crap all you want but the facts remain. The Sharingan doesnt make you faster, at the highest it can increase your reflex's, but it doesnt make you faster. I show prove us this in the several scans I show of Sharingan getting hit time and time again when his Sharingan should have seen the attack coming, thus allowing him to dodge it. So there is a flaw in the logic your using when you pressuem the Sharingan lets you see and dodge all making you a taijutsu monster and yet we see Sasuke being hit by multiple attacks.
2) ...
Yah im done man, when people start saying things like "It is a Manga Fact that A is better than B" then I lose interest being they are being ridicoulus. Again, if I am selling you 2 guns and I tell you everything about the first gun and nothing about the second gun, you cannot say it is a fact that I said the first gun was better simply because I gave you more information about it. Its just horrible logic. But it feels like very few people on NB appreciate logic.
There have only been 4 Uchiha in the span of several generations amounting to over thousands of Uchiha, to attain the MS and only 2 of those 4 got the EMS. So you can use them as examples of how strong the Sharingan is all you want but any rational person would tell you that that is unreasonable. On top of which we have the Hyuga which Kishimoto doesnt tell us much about, but we know there is alot of symbolism relating them to the Otsutsuki Clan and we know that they are the only ones who go so far as sealing their own eyes so that they cannot be stolen The Uchiha on the other hand whose eyes are so powerful are giving theirs out like candy.
Eitherway im done defending this year old thread from Uchiha Fan Boys.
This is when the clans began to form villages, before this moment no clan was part of a village.
2.
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Doesn't really say anything about Itachi, just that it's a true successor of the Sharingan. It isn't until later in the fight that he says something about him directly.
3. Obito willingly got hurt to save Kakashi. Sasuke was able to fight against a kyuubi powered Naruto because of 3 tomoe- Neji lost to Naruto with a little Kyuubi chakra.
4. What? Dude, I didn't mean that Sasuke would have to get praised at that very second. Yeah, that's the whole point, at that point Sasuke wasn't on Itachi's level, Itachi was the prodigy. All Uchiha's have higher expectations is the whole point. Did you not see the kids talking about Sasuke simply because from the Uchiha clan?
5. You're over complicating things man. Itachi was talking about Uchiha, he wasn't including them with the other shinobi. Ok, now I see what you mean. I meant to say that even the weaklings Uchiha are above the weaklings of the other shinobi.
It doesn't matter though, let's use your analogy. If a car is praised for it's engine #1 and is said to be faster than all the other cars-assuming this is a fact, as it is in the manga- then what would be the point of comparing it to engine #2 that people have already put it above.
6.
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Were those three not in the police force? Did Itachi not say that only superior shinobi could deal with shinobi crimes? Almost all of the Uchiha clan was in the Police, and considering that not all Uchiha had the Sharingan i'm willing to bet that the ones that did were the ones in there. Neither, Obito nor Madara, nor Sasuke were there at the time or were still children. Are you comparing one of the strongest Uchiha ever to regular Uchiha's in attempt to discredit their superiority against other non-Uchihas?
7. I never insulted anyone.
8. There does exist such a thing as a better tool. Isn't that what you're trying to prove? The better tool created the better clan.
1) The fact that you dont know that Konoha was the last Village to be founded and that the other 4 Villages had been founded A LONG time prior to Konoha being created worries me.
2)...
Yah man I dont want to keep going on with this random line or dialogue. What are your main problems with my thread so I can respond to them. Because I dont know why your addressing some of the things your bringing up which makes it hard for me to respond to them. x__x
^ Your arguing with yourself for this entire part of your response. I never claim any of the things you say above here. Google the term "Straw Man Fallacy"
1) You can call it crap all you want but the facts remain. The Sharingan doesnt make you faster, at the highest it can increase your reflex's, but it doesnt make you faster. I show prove us this in the several scans I show of Sharingan getting hit time and time again when his Sharingan should have seen the attack coming, thus allowing him to dodge it. So there is a flaw in the logic your using when you pressuem the Sharingan lets you see and dodge all making you a taijutsu monster and yet we see Sasuke being hit by multiple attacks.
2) ...
Yah im done man, when people start saying things like "It is a Manga Fact that A is better than B" then I lose interest being they are being ridicoulus. Again, if I am selling you 2 guns and I tell you everything about the first gun and nothing about the second gun, you cannot say it is a fact that I said the first gun was better simply because I gave you more information about it. Its just horrible logic. But it feels like very few people on NB appreciate logic.
There have only been 4 Uchiha in the span of several generations amounting to over thousands of Uchiha, to attain the MS and only 2 of those 4 got the EMS. So you can use them as examples of how strong the Sharingan is all you want but any rational person would tell you that that is unreasonable. On top of which we have the Hyuga which Kishimoto doesnt tell us much about, but we know there is alot of symbolism relating them to the Otsutsuki Clan and we know that they are the only ones who go so far as sealing their own eyes so that they cannot be stolen The Uchiha on the other hand whose eyes are so powerful are giving theirs out like candy.
Eitherway im done defending this year old thread from Uchiha Fan Boys.
1) The fact that you dont know that Konoha was the last Village to be founded and that the other 4 Villages had been founded A LONG time prior to Konoha being created worries me.
2)...
Yah man I dont want to keep going on with this random line or dialogue. What are your main problems with my thread so I can respond to them. Because I dont know why your addressing some of the things your bringing up which makes it hard for me to respond to them. x__x
Bold. Konoha was formed before all other villages. They were the ones to form the village system which the others copied. We know for a fact that several Uchiha awoke the mangakyo. We even know the names of 5. Given Itachi's dialogue, the clan has been killing each other to awaken the Mangekyo and make it permanent.
Bold. Konoha was formed before all other villages. They were the ones to form the village system which the others copied. We know for a fact that several Uchiha awoke the mangakyo. We even know the names of 5. Given Itachi's dialogue, the clan has been killing each other to awaken the Mangekyo and make it permanent.
So your telling me that Uchiha have been killing each other for centuries to get the Mangekyo.
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So that statement of your is completely disproven. Can you show me the scan where it says the other villages copied Konoha? Or anything that states that they were the first village?
