Well done....up until the Mangekyo sharingan, a Byakugan has the advantage.
But truthfully at the MS is where the Byakugan is screwed over. While a move like Tsukoyomi is countered just how you said....the Byakugan user has no deffinate counter ATTACK to Jutsu like Amaterasu and susanoo.
By this I mean there is no technique the Byakugan has that can not only repel, but simultaneouy turn the move into the Byakugan User's advantage. For instance, against Amaterasu, one gets stuck in rotation or an air palm. These only provide defense against such attacks. Then Susanoo....now we know it is a mass of chakra, and because of such there have to be weal points on it such as Kisame & Zabuza's water prision tech. Obviously regular Susanoo is weak from below, but also likely from behind. I wouldn't be surprised if the third thoractic vertebrae (Byakugan blindspot) showed up as a weak point because of all the Uchiha Hyuga relation suspicions. Sadly the chances of winning or out lasting a Susanoo is relatively unlikely as the Susanoo user csn both move quickly in Susanoo and use both strong and wide area attacks.
Overall:
Byakugan > 3 tomoe
Byakugan < MS/EMS (Due to lack of plausible counter attacks instead of pure defense)
So your telling me that Uchiha have been killing each other for centuries to get the Mangekyo.
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So that statement of your is completely disproven. Can you show me the scan where it says the other villages copied Konoha? Or anything that states that they were the first village?
Nothing in my post indicated how long they were doing it. I never mentioned centuries, decades, or even months, so I don't know how you reached that conclusion. Second image not working by the way. It was said either during Hashirama's flashback or Tobi's lecture to Sasuke that Konoha was the first formed, and that other villages copied not only the village system, but the one village one country system.
So your telling me that Uchiha have been killing each other for centuries to get the Mangekyo.
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So that statement of your is completely disproven. Can you show me the scan where it says the other villages copied Konoha? Or anything that states that they were the first village?
2) This was based on Young Neji vs Young Neji, as back then they were equal in power. But now that Neji is dead and Sasuke is getting power up after power up I am quick to say that they may not be equals. But it has be said at the VERY FREAKING START that this is 2 Ninja of equal strength and power.
Its not Sasuke vs Hinata or Madara vs (Random Byakugan User). It is Madara vs Madara if one Madara had a Sharingan and the other had a Byakugan.
Nothing in my post indicated how long they were doing it. I never mentioned centuries, decades, or even months, so I don't know how you reached that conclusion. Second image not working by the way. It was said either during Hashirama's flashback or Tobi's lecture to Sasuke that Konoha was the first formed, and that other villages copied not only the village system, but the one village one country system.
There are only 3 generations separating Madara from Sasuke. Obito's Father was Tobirama's Student (1 Generation), His Son was Obito (2 Generations), Obito = Kakashi who was Teacher of Sasuke (3rd Generation). At the most there is roughly 60-70 years between Madara and the Clans destruction.
With a time period this short one wonders why you said it in the first place. Thats like me saying "Dont trust that guy he's been lying for as long as ive known him" "How long have you known him" "few minutes "
The scan you show does not back up your claim about there being many Uchiha sacrifices. Which doesnt even make sense because once you kill someone close to you, you gain the Mangekyo. Its not complicated its very very simple and fairly easy to do. So why werent there more people with Mangekyo's? Simple... there were no "sacrifices".
When you say that I assume your talking about the Raikage's Lightning Armor... Which is a ninjutsu in itself. The only people who can release Chakra from all points of their bodies are the Hyuga. And all ninja's mold chakra... you cant use Chakra if you dont mold it... So to say someone doesnt mold chakra is like saying someone doesnt use chakra. Which is like... the one thing you need to do to be a ninja... its the only qualification lol...
Every Jutsu has a weakness. The Byakugan's weakness is just a little part of no vision behind their back. This is only a weakness of you're shooting very thin things at them from a distance of over 10 kilometers (Hinata). The weakness of the sharingan is a huge strain on the person's chakra and fatigue. Remember all those times Kakashi was in hospital recovering. Neji also gets strain from the Byakugan but it happens after a very, very long time so it's not a weakness in a one on one battle. When Sasuke fought Itachi, he was exhausted after the match even though it wasn't that long. You could tell because Naruto and the others didn't look the least but tired from their encounter with Tobi. So if a byakugan user can just stay alive for long enough, the Sharingan user will become exhausted and won't be so competitive anymore. So all this thread needed to show us is that a Byakugan user will survive for long enough. If you take into consideration all the arguments raised so far, then it is clearly evident that a Byakugan user can survive for a pretty long time. The Sharingan user will get tired. Remember, we're considering two evenly-matched fighters with even skill. The Byakugan user will certainly survive long enough. All the Sharingan supporters are forgetting the Sharingan weakness. People with Hashirama's cells don't really have much of this weakness because of Hashirama's huge amounts of Chakra, but we aren't considering the Byakugan vs Sharingan with Senju. It's just the Sharingan vs Byakugan.
Every Jutsu has a weakness. The Byakugan's weakness is just a little part of no vision behind their back. This is only a weakness of you're shooting very thin things at them from a distance of over 10 kilometers (Hinata). The weakness of the sharingan is a huge strain on the person's chakra and fatigue. Remember all those times Kakashi was in hospital recovering. Neji also gets strain from the Byakugan but it happens after a very, very long time so it's not a weakness in a one on one battle. When Sasuke fought Itachi, he was exhausted after the match even though it wasn't that long. You could tell because Naruto and the others didn't look the least but tired from their encounter with Tobi. So if a byakugan user can just stay alive for long enough, the Sharingan user will become exhausted and won't be so competitive anymore. So all this thread needed to show us is that a Byakugan user will survive for long enough. If you take into consideration all the arguments raised so far, then it is clearly evident that a Byakugan user can survive for a pretty long time. The Sharingan user will get tired. Remember, we're considering two evenly-matched fighters with even skill. The Byakugan user will certainly survive long enough. All the Sharingan supporters are forgetting the Sharingan weakness. People with Hashirama's cells don't really have much of this weakness because of Hashirama's huge amounts of Chakra, but we aren't considering the Byakugan vs Sharingan with Senju. It's just the Sharingan vs Byakugan.
Byakugan in any Hyuuga tires them out, considering that in both Hinata's and Neji's cases when they overuse it, they need to turn it off.
The 3-tomoe sharingan doesn't exhaust them. EMS allows you to spam and gives you a higher chakra pool. The only problems come in w/ MS. Kakashi has used his MS for prolonged fights and also isn't an Uchiha, he has very low chakra pools in the first place, that's not only a result from the MS. You shouldn't use a non-Uchiha to compare to compare to all the Uchiha. Also in Itachi's case, that's not only due to his MS, the guy had a terminal illness and had to use medicine in order to prolong his life. You shouldn't use a dying Uchiha as a standard to compare all the others either.
The sharingan users we have seen usually do have higher chakra pools/better stamina than all the Hyuuga. The average Hyuuga will lose to the average Uchiha 9/10. There is a reason that the Uchiha were considered the most powerful clan in Konoha when they were around and the Hyuuga were second to them. U_U
as of 1/7/2013 this thread has been completely revamped, and rebuilt. Things are better organized and a few of my points have changed/improved with more scans being added to back what i have said. Enjoy!
Just added spoilers to the scans
this is going to be my first post so be easy on me.
which eye is better, the byakugan or the sharingan. To me it seems like a loaded question because the sharingan has so many abilities it literally tries to beat the byakugan with quantity over quality. Now anyone can explain how one ability is more useful than the other and when argueing which you ability you personally like more there comes a point where you just have to agree to disagree, so in this case i have changed the question so that we can reach a conclusion that isnt completely based on conjecture.
Who would win in a fight between the byakugan and the sharingan, with this thread i am going to list several reasons as to why i think the byakugan beats the sharingan in a 1 on 1 fight ergo is better than the sharingan.
I ask that you please read through everything i say thoroughly as i have put a lot of work into putting this together, and sharingan fanboys check your ego's at the door.
Again this is a byakugan vs sharingan debate, as in sakuke vs neji in a fight.
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advantages of both doujutsu's
byakugan
- can see through objects, x-ray vision
- has a 360 field of vision around them
- skilled at controlling there chakra
- can see there enemies chakra network
- 1 hit ko
sharingan
- can predict and copy movements and jutsu
- can cast powerful genjutsu
-see chakra flow (to a lesser extent)
- summon susan'o
- when reaching ms/ems you gain 2 unique abilities depending on your eyes, the itachi's family gained tsukuyomi and amaterasu while obito's family gained 2 versions of kamui, left eye moved other objects to a different dimension while the right moves himself to a different dimension, with one of madara's eyes being able to see into the future for about 15 to 20 seconds and then act on it.
if you dont believe thats madara's ms ability then watch this youtube clip, at 3:25 you can clearly see him activating his ms and then seeing what is about to happen afterwards you see time rewinding and madara acting on what he just saw.
predicting jutsu
although the sharingan has the advantage of being able to copy the jutsu of the people they face, the only kind of jutsu the byakugan user uses is taijutsu so the advantage of being able to copy there jutsu is moot. But the sharingan user still has jutsu that he may already know right? Dont worry below i will go over just how the byakugan user can render jutsu useless as well.
beating ninjutsu
the sharingan has the ability to predict there opponents movements, which is good, but the byakugan also has a predictive capability to it. The byakugan, being able to see the chakra flow inside there opponents, can see how there opponent molds there chakra. (remember when kakashi was training naruto to walk on water and to do so they had to focus there chakra towards there feet and balance it?) in order to use jutsu you mold your chakra differently, for instance someone using a fireball technique that comes out of the mouth would mold there chakra differently than someone who uses an earth technique to move the ground below them. The byakugan user can see how there opponent molds there chakra and thus can act accordingly split seconds before there opponent actually acts and thus they can not only predict whether there opponents will use genjutsu, taijutsu or ninjutsu, but they can also forsee what kind of jutsu it will be based on keen observation of there opponents chakra. Granted this doesnt completely render jutsu's useless, but it gives the byakugan user an advantage in being able to dodge it.
beating genjutsu
the sharingan has powerful genjutsu but all of there genjutsu require eye contact, which means the byakugan can simply close his eyelids and see through them and not have to worry about direct eye contact. For instance ao wheres an eye patch over his byakugan and still uses it by using his x-ray vision to look through the eye patch, so the byakugan user can simply close there eyelids or at the very least cover them with something and then look through it. Izangi and izanami are 2 genjutsu that dont require eye contact, but remember that genjutsu works by implanting your chakra into the person you are using the genjutsu on and then messing with the chakra flow to there brain but it is known(by what chiyo tells sakura) that a way to get someone out of a genjutsu is for a 3rd party to push there chakra into the person under the genjutsu and with chakra control they push the enemies chakra out of the person under the genjutsu, the byakugan user is highly skilled at chakra control so much so that he can emit chakra from nodes in his own chakra network, and possibly get himself out of a genjutsu by forcing the enemies chakra out of his own body. With that i doubt that any kind of genjutsu would work on a byakugan user.
with both ninjutsu and genjutsu being countered by the byakugan users skill it all comes down to taijutsu
beating taijutsu
gentle palm fist style is a huge bonus for the byakugan user, with this they dont just have the ultimate defense but they also have the ultimate offense. All there attacks have the potential to do internal damage which means even someone like the 3rd raikage who had a "skin of steel and blood of iron" would take full damage from byakugan user, not to mention that there attacks target the opponents chakra network thus slowing it and further weakening the opponent draining them of chakra and this technique can be used at a distance via "vacuum palm technique". And lets not forget that much like gai and rock lee the byakugan users specialize in taijutsu. Furthermore byakugan users have been known to knock people out with just one hit, it is shown when hiashi fights the ambassodor from kumogakure or like when hizashi beat his brother in just one blow. It is constantly shown that byakugan users that are skilled can knock out there opponents with just one blow.
byakugan advantage #1
they have a 360 x-ray vision with a large range, it is stated in the manga that neji was able to increase the range of his byakugan to 800 meters which is about half a mile. That means no surprise attacks, no clones would work as he would be able to see that your chakra has been split in two and would also be able to see where you are hiding. And with his x-ray vision he would be able to see any kinds of ninja tools and scrolls you are carrying and prepare accordingly. We've seen how powerful the element of surprise can be in the ninja world with many strong opponents in the series being beaten by surprise attacks from clones, reinforcements, hidden ninja, traps, etc... The byakugan user can see through all of these and prepare accordingly.
byakugan advantage #2
well this is less of an advantage and more of clarification, alot of people like to point out that the byakugan has a blindspot that neji has to "work hard" to protect, but as you can see the blind spot in the byakugans sight is so small that it would be incredibly hard to take advantage of even if you knew where it was, simply turning the body slightly would move the blindspot. Neji merely protects it on a technicality.
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byakugan advantage #3
lastly lets not underestimate the power of the hyuga clans vacuum wall palm. We should reanalyze its strength given that hiashi was able to deflect one of the 10 tails legs with just one shot.
byakugan advantage #4
it is also said that the vacuum wall palm and the rotating heavens techniques are the amaterasu and susan'o of the hyuga clan. This isnt true as amaterasu and susano where the families secret techniques, while vacuum wall palm and heaven rotation were merely techniques accessible only to the head family, it was far from secret. So much so that neji was able to copy and reuse the technique just by watching hinata being trained to be able to use it and then used this "secret technique" in the open during his match with naruto in the chunin exam tournament. I dont think a secret technique would be used so openly that other people could watch and then learn it by watching and then apply it in an public setting. Not only that but i dont think that a genin(hinata) who hasn't even passed the chunin exam yet would be trained to use said "secret technique". Although i do agree that the hyuga do have some secret techniques i highly doubt they have been shown in the manga yet.
sharingan clarifications sharingan clarifications #1
1) first of it is stated that the sharingan also has the ability to see chakra.
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although this is true you cannot compare there ability to see the chakra flow to the byakugans ability. Kakashi even says it himself that although he can see the chakra flow he cannot see the inner coils of the chakra system which the byakugan users can. It is in fact the ability to see these inner coils that make the gentle fist technique applicable. It does make sense that the sharingan user should be able to see chakra to some extent because as stated above using a jutsu requires chakra to be molded a certain way, and so the sharingan user must be able to see this molding to be able to copy it, but that is the extent of there vision into the chakra system.
One of my main arguements against them having vision as well as the byakugan is the fact that you haven't seen any sharingan users using the gentle fist technique, a technique is so easy to learn that neji learned it as a genin merely watching it being taught to hinata, i find it hard to believe that a sharingan user who can learn techniques just by watching someone do them cannot simply copy this technique.
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sharingan clarifications #2
also keep in mind that even kakashi states that the sharingan is a mutation of the byakugan and it is stated throughout the entire series that the byakugan is stronger than the sharingan. If anyone has any scans saying otherwise i am completely open to viewing them, also keep in mind that it is also reiterated throughout the series that the byakugan is the strongest dojutsu.
sharingan clarifications #3
we have the strongest uchiha in history, an uchiha genuis that became part of the anbu when he was still a kid and a little brother who watched his entire family die and has been fueled by hatred his entire life forcing him to become stronger. These are the people we are using as the standard of the sharingan? I dont think so, lets compare the average uchiha in the village at the time (like the guy who confronted itachi about shisui's death during the flashback). You cant take the best of the sharingan, use it as the standard and then try to compare it to the current byakugan. That is why i want to refrain from comparing the ms/ems or susan'o to the byakugan because only a handful of uchiha have even awakened the ms.although it is still fun to speculate, lets compare the standard byakugan to the standard sharingan(3t) as we do not yet know the secrets of the byakugan like we know the secrets of the sharingan.
sharingan clarifications #4
some people may think that because the sharingan allows you to predict movements a taijutsu user would not be able to beat the sharingan, as they would not be able to land a single hit. In regards to that i would bring up sasuke's fight against rock lee, remember when rock lee said it doesnt matter if your eyes can see me, if your body cant keep up its useless. And then proceeds in stomping sasuke. With that same token the sharingan only lets the sharingan user see the attacks coming, being able to dodge them and beat the opponents taijutsu is a completely different matter.
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also how about when sasuke caught 5 swords to the chest when fighting against killer bee, why didnt his sharingan see it coming? It did, but his body wasnt fast enough to react.
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one more example would be when sasuke fights raikage and gets grabbed and then riager bombed and is also confirmed when karin states that sasuke can not keep up with raikage.
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now with that last clarification i am going to try to humor the arguement of whether or not the byakugan can beat ms or susan'o. Keep in mind as to how unlikely it is that a byakugan user will face a ms/ems user and also keep in mind that the byakugan can also have a 2nd stage that just hasn't been announced yet. Ms/ems is a secret family technique, but the hyuga clans secret techniques haven't been revealed yet. With that lets move on to the sharingans advantages
sharingan advantage #1
ms/ems - this is like a wildcard because the ms abilities seem to change depending on which uchiha family is using it. Also the ms abilities take a heavy toll on the users chakra reserves, both itachi and sasuke are weakened by using there ms abilities but it isnt only them, in madara's fight against harashima he uses his ms to see the about 20 seconds into the future seeing past harashima smoke cloud and seeing the ninja tools he was going to throw allowing him to block and dodge them, after using it he looks exhausted and loses the fight shortly after. Also kakashi is weakened a lot by using his ms, obito on the other hand doesn't seem to take any damage from abusing his ms but he is infused with harashima cells.
With that there are a way i see the byakugan surviving the sharingans ms.
first off it can only be used a few times before draining the user of chakra which will probably already be low on reserves against a byakugan user that can close your chakra network. So all the byakugan user has to do is wait him out. Keep in mind that all long range ms abilities require there opponents stand still (both raikage and deidara were able to dodge amaterasu and kamui by moving away quickly and they didnt see it coming) with that the byakugan who will see this technique coming by seeing the sharingan users mold the chakra will predict this jutsu and dodge it, remember they are fast as they specialize in taijutsu.
sharingan advantage #2
susan'o - this is the one thing that the byakugan user will have trouble with, but here are some ways i believe the byakugan user can beat it.
first off the vacuum palm technique should be able to penetrate the susan'o's armor and deal damage to the uchiha inside. If not then it would be able to keep the susan'o at bay, remember this is the same technique that knocked back one of the juubi's legs swinging at full force.
secondly remember that like the other ms abilities an uchiha cannot maintain susan'o for a long period of time, the exception is madara but he has harashima cells in him. So all the byakugan user has to do is wait out the sharingan user, and remember that he has the ultimate defense(rotating heaven) on his side and the vacuum palm technique.
thirdly we know that the susan'o has some weak spots, whether it be behind its back (like with sasuke's incomplete susan'o) or underneath it. The byakugan user with 360 vision that spreads over 800 meters can easily identify the weak point in susan'o's armor and thus exploit it.
fourthly a defensive measure used by the byakugan user can be to simply throw down a few smoke pellets and hide from the sharingan user using his byakugans vision to keep tabs on his opponent, thus helping him wait out his opponent.
fifthly the susan'o is detachable from its user,this is seen when gaara knocks madara out of his susan'o. So with rotating heavens or vacuum palm the byakugan user can merely pushed the susan'o back knocking it away from its user. It is even shown that with enough force or firepower you can break through the susan'o's armor seen when danzo's wind blasts a hole in susan'o or when mizukage melts the susan'o or when raikage's raiton shroud breaks the susan'o.
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sixthly susano'o, like nearly all sharingan-specific jutsu, is maintained through visibility. Susano'o obviously can't deactivate every time someone's eyes close, because people blink frequently, but if someone's eyes were forced to close for an extended period of time, they might not be able to form a susano'o, or it would be weakened and lowered from its complete form. So use pepper powder some mace, or a lightbomb. Any person's natural reaction is to close their eyes when faced with a blinding light/burning pain, so just using one can give an opening that allows someone to get around the susano'o.
this is backed up by sm kabuto's white rage technique, there is no reason to believe that the sound was keeping him from maintaining susan'o and although it could have been the vibrating air i find it unlikely as it still wasnt enough to keep itachi from keeping kabuto away from sasuke, not to mention there have been many times where sasuke/itachi have been badly injured and exhuasted but were still able to summon susan'o. So it leads me to believe that closing ones eyes for an extended period of time causes the sharingan user to lose control susan'o.
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with all these reasons i am sure you guys can understand why i think a strong enough byakugan user can overcome any sharingan user, hiashi vs sasuke for instance. The byakugan is the better eye, the sharingan just has alot of added perks, it tries to win you over with quantity over quality. And who knows maybe somewhere down the road we will get to hear about some of the hyuga clans secrets, perhaps the byakugan has a stage 2. If that was the case there would be no denying which was the better eye, but if that was the case i think madara and sasuke would lose there edge as unstoppable "super villians" so perhaps kishi is waiting for the season to near its end before telling us
the only thing that i stumble on is the fact that the sharingan can turn into the rinnegan, but who says the byakugan cant too or perhaps the byakugan is an unactivated version of ranmaru's doujutsu, ranmaru does bare some similarities to the hyuga, just picture him with black hair. The hyuga clans story has yet to be told, i hope kishi gives them the respect they deserve and at least hints at some of there hidden strength.
i didnt read ur theory but i think sharigan is much better than byakagun.think abt sasuke deidara fight.when deidara was abt to explode whole city,sasuke manages to escape using genjutsu.certainly byakagun got no such abilities and if it was neji in place of sasuke,neji would be dead.and byakagun got no chance against sharigan in 1 on 1
I personally like Byakugan more than Sharingan and think it is much stronger. Besides, Sharingan are evil eyes that develop through horrible events in a persons life. If the Uchiha clan was so strong, how were they slaughtered by only 2 members of their clan?
I personally like Byakugan more than Sharingan and think it is much stronger. Besides, Sharingan are evil eyes that develop through horrible events in a persons life. If the Uchiha clan was so strong, how were they slaughtered by only 2 members of their clan?
All because two people whipped out the clan doesn't mean there weak the same can be the same about the hyuuga if minato hadn't save them from Madara tail beast bomb.
All because two people whipped out the clan doesn't mean there weak the same can be the same about the hyuuga if minato hadn't save them from Madara tail beast bomb.
You make no sense! A tailed beast ball could have wiped out any clan (Uchiha included). Could 2 Hyuga members kill their whole clan? No, because all the people from the Hyuga clan are strong! And in the Uchiha clan only few of them are strong, not the whole clan! That is why they were all killed in just one night by 2 talented people from their clan.
I personally like Byakugan more than Sharingan and think it is much stronger. Besides, Sharingan are evil eyes that develop through horrible events in a persons life. If the Uchiha clan was so strong, how were they slaughtered by only 2 members of their clan?
