[Discussion] Zoro is NOT leagues above Sanji!

[Red Swag]

the fact that zoro trains so hard and his main goal is to be the strongest swordsman. sanjis goal doesnt even involve any strength and does not really train that much. that gap will def become larger and larger in due time. plus zoro was trained by mihawk. who knows how strong he really got.

imo yes the gap isnt that big back then... but now? who knows? we havnt seen zoro go all out. everyone he fought was just fodder compared to him. imo the big gap starts now. and will keep on growing in the future.

 

[Hexuze]

Sanji obviously trains people it's just not showed. Oda prob. thinks having a lot of panel time devoted to Zoro training will teach the readers that, "hard work pays off."

 

[naruttebayo]

zoro beats sanji mid difficulty imo

nice analysis, but not enough to convince me :yeah:

 

[Pervy Wrath]

That's WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much to read :| So I'll just say I agree, since Oda himself said that they are close in strength

 

[Kuzan]

1. All your points were from Pre-Timeskip.
2. Some of your points are controversial.
3. Post-timeskip, Zoro seems to be stronger. I wouldn't say leagues stronger, but at least a league or two.

They are constantly portrayed as equals after the timeskip. One example is the fact that Luffy destroys a pacifista on his own and Zoro and Sanji destroy one together. Also, his points are not really controversial, he just states facts based on manga pages.

Thanks for this thread, Sanji deserves some love. After all, he is my favorite Strawhat.

 

[Frankenstein]

Zoro and Sanki are close but Zoro is on top. A 1 vs. 1 between them would laaaaaast before it reached an outcome. Zoro is no.2 in the crew but Sanji is a close no.3 .

Haki wise, I think Zoro's armament haki has to be stronger but Sanji's observation haki is better.

Neither of them has fought in a proper way since the time skip though so we will see.

 

[Mephew D Kensei]

Zorois not ligz ahead of Sanji but he is ahead of him. Checking the time when Zoro tossed a building and when Sanji did Jenga Ho u will see there is plenty of tym btwn those incidents and that tym(hundred chapters or so) is the what puts Zoro ahead. Then u have yo analysis on their fights in Alabasta vs Mr 1(Daz Bones) and Mr 2(Bon Kurei) but i think that Sanji's not being able to attack Kurei coz of him turning into Nami was not as disadvantageos as Daz turning to steel rendering Zoro's offence 0% effective. Then back to Thriller Bark were u praised Sanji blocking Odz's punch with a kick but u shld also remember Zoro doing a similar feat with his newly aquired sword Shisui. Then to Ennies Lobby, yes Sanji had simingly easier fight compared to Zoro anf when he got serious he curbstomped Jabura but seeing as to beat Kaku Zoro got pissed and entered Asura and 2 attacks later Kaku was defeated you cld also say what happened before Asura was as u said in Sanji's case just playing around.

 

[Fujitora]

No one from the M3 is above the other by leagues. There is just as many people that say the difference is very small as people that claim he is leagues above. Zoro is stronger, let's just leave it at that.

 

[the nine tails]

They are constantly portrayed as equals after the timeskip. One example is the fact that Luffy destroys a pacifista on his own and Zoro and Sanji destroy one together. Also, his points are not really controversial, he just states facts based on manga pages.

Thanks for this thread, Sanji deserves some love. After all, he is my favorite Strawhat.

you actually just proved his point ^_^ .... sanji had to use dible jumble ... on the other hand zoro didn't use asura ...

 

[Fireplay]

1. All your points were from Pre-Timeskip.
2. Some of your points are controversial.
3. Post-timeskip, Zoro seems to be stronger. I wouldn't say leagues stronger, but at least a league or two.

Zoro and Sanji lack notable Post-skip feats that would put one above the other. That's why i used Pre-skip scans.

all zones increase your physical powers

Not when in base.

the fact that zoro trains so hard and his main goal is to be the strongest swordsman. sanjis goal doesnt even involve any strength and does not really train that much. that gap will def become larger and larger in due time. plus zoro was trained by mihawk. who knows how strong he really got.

imo yes the gap isnt that big back then... but now? who knows? we havnt seen zoro go all out. everyone he fought was just fodder compared to him. imo the big gap starts now. and will keep on growing in the future.

What makes you think that Sanji and Luffy don't train? Just because you don't see them do it doesn't mean they're not training. Zoro's training happens on panel because his training is directly linked to his goal. Like when Luffy trained and learned G2 or when Sanji trained and learned DJ. Both happened off panel. All three of them train. Oda doesn't waste panel time.

It doesn't matter who trained who. The training method is the only thing that matters. Sanji didn't get to rest at all and was constantly fighting and running from Okama that were all miles above Pre-skip M3. All he did was fight and run day and night whereas Zoro was able to rest and heal his wounds in Mihawk's mansion. Zoro had Mihawk looking out for him. Sanji was looking out for himself.

 

[Kuzan]

you actually just proved his point ^_^ .... sanji had to use dible jumble ... on the other hand zoro didn't use asura ...

Diamble jambe is different than Asura. DJ is similar to Luffy's gears, while Asure is more of an attack. You cant really compare the two IMO.

 

[the nine tails]

Diamble jambe is different than Asura. DJ is similar to Luffy's gears, while Asure is more of an attack. You cant really compare the two IMO.

you might be right ^_^ ... i thought they were the same cuz they got these power ups at the same time ya know ^_^

 

[Aertes]

Overall, I have to agree, Zoro is not leagues above Sanji, but there's a difference between them that puts Zoro above Sanji.
With most of the points you presented I have to disagree though.
About the Douriki, it was measured before they eat the DF. I know you answered to someone that it didn't affected their psychical strength but remember Kaku eat a Zoan type, ''the Zoan fruits primarily improve physical abilities and allow the user to use his or her three forms to adapt to a situation during a fight to find the form that gives the biggest advantage.'' So in that point Kaku improved his physical strength just by eating the fruit and adapted to the form that gave him a bigger advantage over Zoro.
Against Oars, they both fought and defended themselves in the same way. Sanji went unconscious just by a hit from Zoro when Zoro took Luffy's pain and was still standing when everyone wake up.
Zoro in Alabasta fought a DF user that rendered all his attacks useless. Zoro found a way to defeat him and by that time he demonstrated signs of haki use. Something like that never happened with Sanji, that fight had a great meaning for Zoro, even if he had a harder time to defeat his enemy.
Overall, Zoro is a bad match up for Sanji. Zoro has shown better use of CoA than Sanji, meaning that his swords attacks will be more effective against Sanji's kicks, but they are both somehow close when it comes to overall strength and abilities.

 

[Fireplay]

Overall, I have to agree, Zoro is not leagues above Sanji, but there's a difference between them that puts Zoro above Sanji.
With most of the points you presented I have to disagree though.
About the Douriki, it was measured before they eat the DF. I know you answered to someone that it didn't affected their psychical strength but remember Kaku eat a Zoan type, ''the Zoan fruits primarily improve physical abilities and allow the user to use his or her three forms to adapt to a situation during a fight to find the form that gives the biggest advantage.'' So in that point Kaku improved his physical strength just by eating the fruit and adapted to the form that gave him a bigger advantage over Zoro.

A Zoan fruit alone doesn't affect your Doriki. Doriki is measured when someone is in their base form and a Zoan fruit doesn't effect the measurement or your base form.

Quote from Wiki:

According to Jabra, Doriki only measures someone's physical power and does not take into account the powers granted by Devil Fruits, despite that some Devil Fruits' (especially Zoan-types) side-effects directly increases someone's physical strength.[

Against Oars, they both fought and defended themselves in the same way. Sanji went unconscious just by a hit from Zoro when Zoro took Luffy's pain and was still standing when everyone wake up.

What makes you think Zoro wouldn't of lost consiousness if Sanji had kicked him in the right spot? Zoro hit Sanji with the hilt of his sword to the ribs and Sanji wasn't prepared for the attack. Just like in Dbz when Goku and Majin Vegeta were fighting. Vegeta told Goku that they should work together but when Goku turned around Vegeta knocked him out in one punch because Goku wasn't prepared. My point was to prove that although Sanji isn't as durable as Zoro he isn't far behind either.

Zoro in Alabasta fought a DF user that rendered all his attacks useless. Zoro found a way to defeat him and by that time he demonstrated signs of haki use. Something like that never happened with Sanji, that fight had a great meaning for Zoro, even if he had a harder time to defeat his enemy.

My point here was that although Zoro's enemies are stronger than Sanji's, Sanji beats his enemies with lower difficulty than Zoro does his. That fight really didn't have anything to do with Haki. He was getting decimated but then there was a flashback and suddenly he's able to dent steel. Going by that Sanji showed signs of CoO Haki when he fought Mr.2 and Jabra.

Overall, Zoro is a bad match up for Sanji. Zoro has shown better use of CoA than Sanji, meaning that his swords attacks will be more effective against Sanji's kicks, but they are both somehow close when it comes to overall strength and abilities.

Sanji has shown better CoO than Zoro. The way CoO works is the more killing intent your enemy has the easier it is to predict their next move. Sanji's superior CoO makes up for Zoro's superior CoA and Zoro's enormous killing intent isn't helping him at all. Zoro's CoA being superior to Sanji's doesn't mean in any way that if Sanji coats his leg with Haki and Zoro coats his sword with Haki, Sanji's leg will get cut off in a clash.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

They are in the same league. Zoro has the tiniest of edges above Sanji.

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Do you remember this?

What is this meant to prove? We know Zoro is stronger ; but they are in the same league. They are capable of fighting and defeating the same opponents.

 

[Frikid]

zoro uses his hands to fight + 3 swords.
Sanji only uses his legs (hands for support but not for fighting) and no weapon.

If zoro were to fight sanji, sanji would be cut in half, really..
Its just that i doubt sanji's haki is good enough to take on zoro's attacks.
Zoro's weapons give him big advantage not just against sanji but against luffy too.

And i think if luffy were to fight zoro in 1vs1 either he would lose or win with extreme high difficulty because zoro has the advantage(remember luffy is also weak to sharp attacks)
Haki would definitely help luffy but still he would take some damage .

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

zoro uses his hands to fight + 3 swords.
Sanji only uses his legs (hands for support but not for fighting) and no weapon.

Luffy doesn't use swords either...

If zoro were to fight sanji, sanji would be cut in half, really..

I guess Luffy does too huh? Same for Sakazuki right?
Your logic is terrible. Sanji is faster than Zoro. And Hells memories heat will probably force Zoro into using long range attacks which give Sanji more time to dodge. Sanji can also use Sky walk to avoid close combat if need be. He's already kicked Zoro's swords.

Its just that i doubt sanji's haki is good enough to take on zoro's attacks.

Then the other way round must also be true. Since their Haki is pretty much equal.

Zoro's weapons give him big advantage not just against sanji but against luffy too.

Not really... I guess a nation with one man and a nuclear bomb has an advantage over a nation with no nukes but over 50 million people, right? Same concept. The weapons demonstrate a different fighting style. That's all.

And i think if luffy were to fight zoro in 1vs1 either he would lose or win with extreme high difficulty because zoro has the advantage(remember luffy is also weak to sharp attacks)

He wouldn't have an advantage over Luffy since Luffy can dodge etc. I don't think you've ever heard of that term based upon the prior comments you made. Luffy would win High Diff.

Haki would definitely help luffy but still he would take some damage .

Of course he would take damage. Like how Zoro will take heavy damage from Sanji. Haki helps everyone.

 

[The Sach]

No, zoro is certainly leagues above Sanji, he has quiet a good arsenal if you ask me..
I am kinda biased here..

 

[Olorin]

I'll admit I didn't read it because I'm at work

But non the less, being a fan of OP of 10 years I'm prepared to bet a lot that there is nothing in there that I don't already know, actually I've probably read it many many times in the manga or seen in the anime. I think that the power gap between Zoro and Sanji is almost equal, perhaps slightly bigger, than the gap between Zoro and Luffy. I think that it's Luffy>Zoro>Sanji shouldn't evn be an argument. They are not miles apart, no, but the gaps are noticable all the same. But since Zoro wields swords which are kinda Luffys weakness since he stretches and rubber is kinda easy to cut I think that a battle between Zoro and Luffy would be much closer than the battle between Zoro and Sanji ... Which would still be a Zoro win high dif

 

[SSS12]

I'd say Zoro is closer to Luffy in terms of strength rather than Sanji. Certainly not 'leagues above' though.