Why Madara is a better Mastermind than Aizen.

[Untamed]

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Madara was saying EVERYTHING wasn't apart of his plan because his plan was to be resurrected AFTER ALL BIJUU were captured and he didn't include KABUTO's life & actions in his plans.
Aizen's "plans" can't be reasonable because "outside" factors like lives he simply couldn't have planned for existed in the life of Ichigo. Its like he planned the whole Bleach series and is the writer. As far as his plans go anyway.
Madara's plans are reasonable in the story because there is luck involved and you just cant truly be perfect The thing about Madara though, he comes up with new plans in the heat of the moment or amidst the new obstacles his plan faces.

 

[mikeeozua]

I don't say that he's a better mastermind than Aizen either. But your examples are not the right ones.

Like some people and OP said, Madara adapted to the situation. He was dead so he couldn't control everything according to his will.

Oh yeah, I agree with you there.

 

[Senju Bean]

At this point in the story though, you really believe Kishi is going to have Madara reveal that he was also behind the events you just mentioned? I highly doubt it. I'm not saying it an impossibility or that it won't happen. But as I said until it is comfirmed in the manga it is just speculation at this point and not fact so it doesn't work in this argument just because Kishi might or might not mention this later on.

If it does come to pass as true then you can revisit this thread with a big "I told you so" but until then it is just specualtion.

@ part in bold:

No it doesn't the fact is the 8 year old still got a lower grade than the 17 year old. That means the 17 year old scored better. Had the 8 year old also got an A then yes he would have been better. Your example doesn't prove the 8 year old is better than the 17 year old because you dont know what the 17 year old would have scored at the age of 8 without prep.

Sure the 8 year old is gifted to achieve something at such a young age. but that doesn't make him Smarter than the 17 year old.

Ok fair enough. We will see if my prediction comes true. Remember Kishi is obviously trying the make Madara the ultimate badass.

I forgot to also mention that the 8 year old also didn't have a calculator and book to bring to the exams for open book and calculator allowed exams and the 17 year old did. And the kid is also narcoleptic, making him sleepy during exams.

Aizen had much more to work with. Madara didn't have much at his disposal in comparison.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

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[Senju Bean]

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Haha yes. He planned his own doom!

 

[the last shinobi]

I am not a huge fan of Aizen nor Madara. But Aizen's planning:

1.) was 100 years in the making
2.) also involved his death (staged albiet) but the rest was left in the hands of his subordinates Tousen and mainly Gin
3.) Aizen left nothing to chance.
4.) his plans involved indirectly influencing the events that led to the very birth of the hero. all intentional

I think Aizen takes this over Maddy. If anything though, maddy's planning is more realistic in that no matter how well you plan something, there are always unexpected vairiables. Obito/Maddy were great at adapting to the change in situation (Kabuto reviving madara in edo form, etc.)

this is the best comparison of the two in planning

 

[Darkakatsuki]

If Madara wasn't edo tensei'd by Kabuto, this war would likely have been over. Obito would have bee talk no jutsu'd out of this war

Stop trolling! Obito tried to perform rinne tensei when he was talk no jutsu'd, and guess what happened? Black Zetsu capitalized and used the rinne tensei for Madara. The same would have happened even if Kabuto didn't Edo Tensei Madara, after all, that was Madara's original plan in the first place, to be ressurrected with rinne tensei by black Zetsu (He knew Nagato and Obito might betray him, that's why he left his will (Black Zetsu) behind in the first place)

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Madara is nowhere near Lord Aizen levee, because his plan would have failed miserably if Orochimaru, Kabuto, and bazzilions of other factors he had no control over showed up. He just let obito do everything, and then died and obito betrayed the **** out of him. That isn't epic planning, that's falling off the track at the very start, and then somehow falling back on again.

 

[kimb]

Great thread.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Madara was pulling strings from his death.

He knew he wasn't going to be around so he made a new Madara instead.

He completely brainwashed Obito into becoming the new Madara,

This isn't Obito, but merely a copy of Madara's persona

Spoiler

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He made Obito almost exactly the way he wants

Spoiler

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Him brainwashing Obito wasn't a gamble at all. He has a deep understanding human psychology and how to use it to his advantage. He was the one that taught Obito how to manipulate in the first place.


He was controlling his pawns from beyond the grave using his careful planning and intellect.

Sure, some of the things seemingly ran more smoothly for Aizen, but that was because his plan didn't involve him dying and then getting revived. Aizen had a huge advantage for being able to directly oversee things. Madara didn't yet things are going far better for Madara than for Aizen.

Madara had to be more meticulous and intelligent because he doesn't get to oversee things after dying.



Finally, this blows my mind,

Spoiler

Madara's Trump Card was Hashirama all along?????!!!

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How in the world did he know??? He not psychic so something else must be going on...

To be honest (and I despise Aizen) Madara's plan only worked out for him because Kabuto revived him, because I highly doubt Obito was planning to bring him back.

 

[Bronze]

To be honest (and I despise Aizen) Madara's plan only worked out for him because Kabuto revived him, because I highly doubt Obito was planning to bring him back.

Black Zetsu would have revived him by taking the Rinnegan and implanting on someone else forcing them to use Rinne Tensie. Black Zetsu was his backup plan, in case Nagato doesn't revive him.​

 

[Dark Artist]

don't insult almighty Madara and compare him with a shitty 4 eyed villian from a shitty show called Bleach

this show sucks so bad ​

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Madara is nowhere near Lord Aizen levee, because his plan would have failed miserably if Orochimaru, Kabuto, and bazzilions of other factors he had no control over showed up. He just let obito do everything, and then died and obito betrayed the **** out of him. That isn't epic planning, that's falling off the track at the very start, and then somehow falling back on again.

Except Nagato was dead, and black Zetsu couldn't touch Obito at full power (before Juubi's-jin).

Edit: sorry, meant to reply to someone else.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Black Zetsu would have revived him by taking the Rinnegan and implanting on someone else forcing them to use Rinne Tensie. Black Zetsu was his backup plan, in case Nagato doesn't revive him.​

Again, Black Zetsu only managed to possess a weakened, paralyzed, and DYING Obito, who still managed to fight him off.

 

[Bronze]

Again, Black Zetsu only managed to possess a weakened, paralyzed, and DYING Obito, who still managed to fight him off.

No, Minato broke the control by cutting Obito's arm off. Not Obito.​

 

[Darth Uchiha]

No, Minato broke the control by cutting Obito's arm off. Not Obito.​

...Are we reading the same manga?

 

[Bronze]

...Are we reading the same manga?

Apparently, I am reading the correct manga.​

 

[LegendaryAce]

Madara stomps Aizen in every aspect.​

Like hell Aizen is better at almost every aspect (the hair being debatable) in terms of plannin and trolling he is leagues above madara

 

[HiddenSound]

Madara relies on luck. Aizen relies on his own ability and intelligence. No matter what, Madara will just be a knock off compared to Aizen.
Obito becoming the Juubi's Jinchuriki, for example. How the hell did that even happen? Madara was lucky the likes of Naruto and Sasuke were there to bale him out of that f*ck up.

 

[apsri]

One, he knew Obito would capture all the Bijuu. Out of hundreds of kids, he carefully selected the best one to manipulate. He even tested out his strength. Of course it was planned.

He knows much more about Edo Tensei than Tobirama, meaning he might have planned his revival in case Nagato and Obito betrayed him.

Orochimaru might have been one of his creations. Just like how he created Tobi, he may have set up the circumstances to make kid Oro a power hungry mad scientist. This increases the chances of him learning Edo Tensei and hence him being revivied.

He Bijuu wouldn't have. Blind Madara is way stronger.

Like I said, Kabuto was being used.

No, Edo Tensei was not within his calculations. He expected to be revived by Nagato. He said so himself, and was surprised when he found out someone has used Edo Tensei to revive him.