Why Madara is a better Mastermind than Aizen.

[Memento Mori]

Lord Aizen>>>>>>>>>>Madara

 

[Senju Bean]

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[Umari Senju]

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Wow....this thread just got solo'd XD

 

[Second Path of Pain]

Jim Moriarty > everyone

 

[Senju Bean]

Jim Moriarty > everyone

Yagami Light is better than him

 

[Second Path of Pain]

Yagami Light is better than him

Hah nope .

Edit: Did you even watch Sherlock?

 

[Senju Bean]

Wow....this thread just got solo'd XD

Ummm, clearly you miss what I was trying to get at.

He knew beforehand that Hashirama was going to be revived so he planned him as a trump card.

 

[Umari Senju]

Ummm, clearly you miss what I was trying to get at.

He knew beforehand that Hashirama was going to be revived so he planned him as a trump card.

I meant that for another poster and edited it.

OT: No he did not know Hashirama was going to be revived. His trump card was for Obito. He forced Obito to Rinne Tensei him should things go arwy as they did. It's still great planning, but it's not on Aizen's level is all I'm saying.

 

[Senju Bean]

1st part in bold:

He didn't hand pick Obito out of hundreds of kids. He chose Obito because Obito kamui'd into his secret passage way after being crushed by that boulder. Call it fate if you will. Sure I suppose he could have chosen some other fodder, but when another Uchiha with a unique ability literally falls into your lap, you don't look a gift horse in the mouth. From there, yeah it was all maddy.

2n part in bold:
That is an assumption and not something he actually did until it is proven in the manga. Yes Kabuto was being used but by Orochimaru not Madara. Madara was surprised and even asked Obito why he was brought back as an edo and not Rinne Tensei. Hashirama's face was also graphed onto him by Kabuto giving him access to hashi's greater mokuton techs.

This was all Kabuto's doing not Madara's this was an unexpected circumstance that worked in his favor.




I did say it was staged if you missed that part. But nonetheless, he didn't interfere until it was time.

Madara controlled the Mist. Who's to say that he didn't control those who caused the cave in. He could have manipulated someone who manipulated some who... all the way down that that fodder that caused the cave in.

He had spies everywhere. Of course he had the luxury of choosing the best of the best.

 

[Senju Bean]

Hah nope .

Edit: Did you even watch Sherlock?

Just the movies.

 

[Second Path of Pain]

Just the movies.

Movies are not enough, watch the TV show and you'll know what I'm talking about. Jim Moriarty shits on them.

 

[mohdzarif]

Okay, but my point is that calling him an mastermind is way too much (especially classifying him better than Aizen). Aizen didn't take any risks, Madara left a lot of things up to chance, that's all I'm saying.

I don't say that he's a better mastermind than Aizen either. But your examples are not the right ones.

Like some people and OP said, Madara adapted to the situation. He was dead so he couldn't control everything according to his will.

 

[Umari Senju]

Madara controlled the Mist. Who's to say that he didn't control those who caused the cave in. He could have manipulated someone who manipulated some who... all the way down that that fodder that caused the cave in.

He had spies everywhere. Of course he had the luxury of choosing the best of the best.

Again this is speculation. We don't know if he actually caused the cave in. I think he would have mentioned that to Obito as well since he was being so honest. None of what you are saying was actually proven or mentioned by Madara without a shadow of a doubt.

Could he have planned the events you just mentioned? Sure. Did he though. No, not until he himself says it or it is shown in the manga. What I mentioned about Aizen was all stated by him in the manga itself. This is why I believe Aizen is the better mastermind. But Aizen is also much older than Maddy being a shinigami and all so it's not really an insult to Maddy.

Despite all thats happened. Maddy said it himself in the pic Vasu posted.

"I'd be lying if I said everything went according to my plan but beggars can't be choosers."

Those words would never part from Aizen's lips.

 

[Senju Bean]

Okay, but my point is that calling him an mastermind is way too much (especially classifying him better than Aizen). Aizen didn't take any risks, Madara left a lot of things up to chance, that's all I'm saying.

Aizen is a reaper. He is immoral so of course he had more time. He was able to oversee things.

The fact that Madara had to die and not oversee things is automatically huge risk but there is literally no other way to go about it.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Well you know, you have to question Aizen's intelligence if his plan involved making his enemy (Ichigo) strong resulting in him surpassing his expectations and ultimately causing his downfall.

 

[Vandenreich]

Well you know, you have to question Aizen's intelligence if his plan involved making his enemy (Ichigo) strong resulting in him surpassing his expectations and ultimately causing his downfall.

Who's to say his plan still isn't in effect?

 

[Umari Senju]

Well you know, you have to question Aizen's intelligence if his plan involved making his enemy (Ichigo) strong resulting in him surpassing his expectations and ultimately causing his downfall.

Agreed. That's why I said Maddy's planning was more realistic than Aizen's. all that perfect planning and he didn't plan for the fact that if he planned for ichigo to become stronger than him then Ichigo might actually defeat him? How do you miss that?...Then again maybe this too was part of his plan as he knew the Quincy were going to attack and he wanted tobe locked away in a comfy secluded area while the 2 sides fight it out then escape?

XD I could see that! XD

 

[Vandenreich]

Agreed. That's why I said Maddy's planning was more realistic than Aizen's. all that perfect planning and he didn't plan for the fact that if he planned for ichigo to become stronger than him then Ichigo might actually defeat him? How do you miss that?...Then again maybe this too was part of his plan as he knew the Quincy were going to attack and he wanted tobe locked away in a comfy secluded area while the 2 sides fight it out then escape?

XD I could see that! XD

He did plan for Ichigo to become stronger.
The Hōgyoku was about to evolve him again.
He didn't plan for Kisuske to plant a kidō within a kidō.

 

[Senju Bean]

Again this is speculation. We don't know if he actually caused the cave in. I think he would have mentioned that to Obito as well since he was being so honest. None of what you are saying was actually proven or mentioned by Madara without a shadow of a doubt.

Could he have planned the events you just mentioned? Sure. Did he though. No, not until he himself says it or it is shown in the manga. What I mentioned about Aizen was all stated by him in the manga itself. This is why I believe Aizen is the better mastermind. But Aizen is also much older than Maddy being a shinigami and all so it's not really an insult to Maddy.

Despite all thats happened. Maddy said it himself in the pic Vasu posted.

"I'd be lying if I said everything went according to my plan but beggars can't be choosers."

Those words would never part from Aizen's lips.

If I had said that Madara really created Tobi before last chapter, you would say no its not shown in the manga.

And look at what we have here: Madara completely influincing Obito

We can extrapolate from patterns in the Manga. And do you know what pattern I see?

I see Kishi trying the make the biggest badass in manga history. That is what I see.

If that is indeed true, then more would be revealed about his cunning and planning.

Kishi is not one to reveal everything all at once. Just little by little to keep things in suspense.


You're right, Aizen did have a huge advantage as an immortal reaper with many more years of experience. But given the age difference and the fact that Madara was actually dead, I'd say that Madara is more skilled one.

An 8 year old that gets a B in Calculus without prep is much smarter than a 17 year old student with an A in the same class, but with plenty of practice and experience.

 

[Umari Senju]

If I had said that Madara really created Tobi before last chapter, you would say no its not shown in the manga.

And look at what we have here: Madara completely influincing Obito

We can extrapolate from patterns in the Manga. And do you know what pattern I see?

I see Kishi trying the make the biggest badass in manga history. That is what I see.

If that is indeed true, then more would be revealed about his cunning and planning.

Kishi is not one to reveal everything all at once. Just little by little to keep things in suspense.


You're right, Aizen did have a huge advantage as an immortal reaper with many more years of experience. But given the age difference and the fact that Madara was actually dead, I'd say that Madara is more skilled one.

An 8 year old that gets a B in Calculus without prep is much smarter than a 17 year old student with an A in the same class, but with plenty of practice and experience.

At this point in the story though, you really believe Kishi is going to have Madara reveal that he was also behind the events you just mentioned? I highly doubt it. I'm not saying it an impossibility or that it won't happen. But as I said until it is comfirmed in the manga it is just speculation at this point and not fact so it doesn't work in this argument just because Kishi might or might not mention this later on.

If it does come to pass as true then you can revisit this thread with a big "I told you so" but until then it is just specualtion.

@ part in bold:

No it doesn't the fact is the 8 year old still got a lower grade than the 17 year old. That means the 17 year old scored better. Had the 8 year old also got an A then yes he would have been better. Your example doesn't prove the 8 year old is better than the 17 year old because you dont know what the 17 year old would have scored at the age of 8 without prep.

Sure the 8 year old is gifted to achieve something at such a young age. but that doesn't make him Smarter than the 17 year old.