Why Hashirama > BM Naruto

[Ryuu..]

Excellent Thread; Everything Makes Sense. I Can't Believe That Many People Feel That KM Naruto Could Surpass Hashirama ... Geez, Stop The Madness. Drop Kurama And Naruto Loses A Majority Of His Chakra, Stamina, & Power - Heck, He Wouldn't Even Be Able To Use Kage Bunshin As Recklessly As He Did During Part I Of The Series, Let Alone His Other More Powerful Techniques (i.e. Rasenshuriken).

+Rep

lol, thanks man xd

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Your entire basis for this thread is retarded.

How does mokuton randomly suppress the kyubbi's chakra? The mere presence of it doesn't suppress the Kyuubi's chakra.

He would have to catch Naruto first, and then suppress the chakra. And can he do that with several KM clones + the original in BM and any sage mode clones he might have?

I sincerely doubt that. You can't argue with me and so you make a thread trying to get people to side with you.

Do you want me to show you a manga page where Naruto destroys an entire mokuton forest, which is the largest mokuton attack we have yet seen? And don't try and tell me Madara and Hashirama's mokuton are on different levels, because Madara didn't even look tired and his mokuton is in the form a real tree just like Hashirama's.

 

[Viewtiful]

Probably. Depends on whether or not Hashirama stands a chance against Sage Mode and if he even gets the chance to suppress Kurama's chakra. He was insanely powerful no doubt, considering he defeated EMS Madara controlling Kurama. However, I've no clue who would win in him vs. SM Naruto. If it gets down to Taijutsu between them, Frog Kata would probably kill him in a single hit like it did to the Preta Path, since he can't detect natural energy. It would be an awesome fight though.

 

[Ryuu..]

Your entire basis for this thread is retarded.

How does mokuton randomly suppress the kyubbi's chakra? The mere presence of it doesn't suppress the Kyuubi's chakra.

He would have to catch Naruto first, and then suppress the chakra. And can he do that with several KM clones + the original in BM and any sage mode clones he might have?

I sincerely doubt that. You can't argue with me and so you make a thread trying to get people to side with you.

Do you want me to show you a manga page where Naruto destroys an entire mokuton forest, which is the largest mokuton attack we have yet seen? And don't try and tell me Madara and Hashirama's mokuton are on different levels, because Madara didn't even look tired and his mokuton is in the form a real tree just like Hashirama's.

LOL I can't tell you how much is wrong with what you said mate.

1. Random? It's ability is to supress bijuu chakra. What's random about that?
2. He may/may not be able to catch Naruto; that's up for debate.
3. You only saw Orochimaru's edo tensei Hashirama. You saw Kabuto's complete edo tensei Madara. Kabuto's edo tensei is complete, Orochimaru's is not. What could be the only difference? They both had control of the summons, they summons were able to use KKG...........It must be powerlevels which is the difference between a complete and incomplete Edo tensei. So the Hashirama we saw was not at full power. Plus he had plot no jutsu going against him. So are you trying to tell me Madara, who used Mokuton for the first time, has a stronger wood release than Hashirama, who mastered it?
4. Madara didn't look tired? and his mokuton is in the form a real tree just like Hashirama's? Go to sleep and when you wake up, I hope you wake up with sense.

 

[dareak]

The only problem here is that Kurama's chakra is a part of Naruto.
And not like before where Yamato could suppress it, Naruto is now a perfect jinchuuriki.

 

[OWanime]

+ rep but flaw---> that necklace was broken so he can't suppress them as easy and the chakra of kurama that's in naruto's possession can't be suppressed because it no longer has hateful will from kurama plus it'd be really hard to catch naruto with his km speed and also he took the kyuubi down with just sage mode so either way he's loaded but for now he doesn't have the experience so your statement is true for now xd

 

[Ryuu..]

The only problem here is that Kurama's chakra is a part of Naruto.
And not like before where Yamato could suppress it, Naruto is now a perfect jinchuuriki.

Hmmm, I see what you're saying.

+ rep but flaw---> that necklace was broken so he can't suppress them as easy and the chakra of kurama that's in naruto's possession can't be suppressed because it no longer has hateful will from kurama plus it'd be really hard to catch naruto with his km speed and also he took the kyuubi down with just sage mode so either way he's loaded but for now he doesn't have the experience so your statement is true for now xd

lol fair enough, thanks xd

 

[777skills]

This all sounds good but tell me on thing.

1. Prove that an uchiha or wood user can supress the chakra of a jinchurikki that is in full control of their demon.

2. Prove that under the assumption that he is unable to supress kurama chakra that he can still win.

3. Prove that he will still be able to handle naruto with the fox under control.

4. Prove that kurama is not as strong now as he was then.


I think that this does sound very legit but what puts me off is 1. you said that kurama was stronger before. How is that? chakra is not sumthing that just vanishes is can regenerate and I doubt it can be permanently sealed (look at orochi for example). So until you prove that chakra can be sealed permenently then that part is speculation. also when you stated hashirama being able to just take control of the fox how do you klnow this? Has anyone ever just taken control over a demon while its host had full control over it (like bee and naruto)? That hasent been dont (yet) so that is a decent amount of bad speculation. Also back to the sealing thing. If a tailed beast needs white and dark chakra (yin and yang) o do TBB if their white (yin) got sealed how would they be able to do TBB? Naruto has done that.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

LOL I can't tell you how much is wrong with what you said mate.

1. Random? It's ability is to supress bijuu chakra. What's random about that?
2. He may/may not be able to catch Naruto; that's up for debate.
3. You only saw Orochimaru's edo tensei Hashirama. You saw Kabuto's complete edo tensei Madara. Kabuto's edo tensei is complete, Orochimaru's is not. What could be the only difference? They both had control of the summons, they summons were able to use KKG...........It must be powerlevels which is the difference between a complete and incomplete Edo tensei. So the Hashirama we saw was not at full power. Plus he had plot no jutsu going against him. So are you trying to tell me Madara, who used Mokuton for the first time, has a stronger wood release than Hashirama, who mastered it?
4. Madara didn't look tired? and his mokuton is in the form a real tree just like Hashirama's? Go to sleep and when you wake up, I hope you wake up with sense.

He has to catch Naruto to suppress him, the mere presence of mokuton wouldn't suppress Naruto's chakra

Naruto can still destroy the mokuton easily. Unless you think that mokuton can tank a TBB of the size that Naruto can create. Or hundreds of Oodama rasengans.

You are incapable of using logic though and claim that Naruto would get his chakra suppressed when you have nothing to base that on, considering that the only times Naruto has had his chakra suppressed, he was stationary and not attacking Yamato.

 

[Ryuu..]

This all sounds good but tell me on thing.

1. Prove that an uchiha or wood user can supress the chakra of a jinchurikki that is in full control of their demon.

2. Prove that under the assumption that he is unable to supress kurama chakra that he can still win.

3. Prove that he will still be able to handle naruto with the fox under control.

4. Prove that kurama is not as strong now as he was then.


I think that this does sound very legit but what puts me off is 1. you said that kurama was stronger before. How is that? chakra is not sumthing that just vanishes is can regenerate and I doubt it can be permanently sealed (look at orochi for example). So until you prove that chakra can be sealed permenently then that part is speculation. also when you stated hashirama being able to just take control of the fox how do you klnow this? Has anyone ever just taken control over a demon while its host had full control over it (like bee and naruto)? That hasent been dont (yet) so that is a decent amount of bad speculation. Also back to the sealing thing. If a tailed beast needs white and dark chakra (yin and yang) o do TBB if their white (yin) got sealed how would they be able to do TBB? Naruto has done that.

Hashirama's mokuton did have the ability to supress Bijuu chakra. We've seen that with Yamato's abilities aswell, when he supresses 4 tailed Naruto. It doesn't say he can't supress a prefect jinchiriki's chakra. So it works both ways.

Along with his kekkei genkai, Orochimaru also coveted Hashirama's unique ability to control tailed beasts. Of all his considerable talents, it was this ability in particular that made Hashirama unparalleled in the shinobi world, so much so that he is regarded as one of the few people capable of completely controlling a tailed beast.

I doubt, IMO, Sage mode Naruto is > EMS Madara and Kyuubi, who was defeated by Hashirama.

Kurama can only be = or < Kurama (under control of Madara). It's chakra regenerates overtime so it either has fully regenerated it or not quite jut yet.

 

[Rikudo SenninKun Namikaze]

Excellent Thread; Everything Makes Sense. I Can't Believe That Many People Feel That KM Naruto Could Surpass Hashirama ... Geez, Stop The Madness. Drop Kurama And Naruto Loses A Majority Of His Chakra, Stamina, & Power - Heck, He Wouldn't Even Be Able To Use Kage Bunshin As Recklessly As He Did During Part I Of The Series, Let Alone His Other More Powerful Techniques (i.e. Rasenshuriken).

+Rep

Naruto has Senjutsu and perfected it above and beyond anyone else prior to him, it is NOT true that he cannot use Rasenshuriken without Kurama, if you even paid attention to the manga you'd see Naruto always entering Sage Mode to use rasenshuriken so that it will not damage him since if used while normal it has serious negative effects on one's body. He does not need Kurama's chakra nor does he use it when he creates the Rasenshuriken.
If anything Kurama and the flaw in the seal, has caused him not to be able to access kurama's chakra at will (until he controlled it and entered KM) and it also gave him unbearably poor chakra control, which with Uzumaki chakra reserve as big as it is, he could create a shit load of clones still without Kurama's chakra (look at Nagato- an Uzumaki, being able to use Rinnegan almost at its full potential)

see ... this is why people that have been giving you rep and agreeing with your points are pretty much imbeciles that have no clue about what they're saying and believe that their pieced-together speculated and incomplete misunderstood information is actuality and real facts, when they are not but fabricated opinions at best.

 

[Ryuu..]

He has to catch Naruto to suppress him, the mere presence of mokuton wouldn't suppress Naruto's chakra

Naruto can still destroy the mokuton easily. Unless you think that mokuton can tank a TBB of the size that Naruto can create. Or hundreds of Oodama rasengans.

You are incapable of using logic though and claim that Naruto would get his chakra suppressed when you have nothing to base that on, considering that the only times Naruto has had his chakra suppressed, he was stationary and not attacking Yamato.

Hashirama is on a different level to Yamato. Or d you refuse to accept that. If Naruto is caught by Mokuton, how will he be able to perform TBB if its chakra is being supressed immediately? Tell me how he's going to get that 80:20 ratio.

You say he can't get his chakra supressed by Hashirama. Why is that?

 

[Ryuu..]

Naruto has Senjutsu and perfected it above and beyond anyone else prior to him, it is NOT true that he cannot use Rasenshuriken without Kurama, if you even paid attention to the manga you'd see Naruto always entering Sage Mode to use rasenshuriken so that it will not damage him since if used while normal it has serious negative effects on one's body. He does not need Kurama's chakra nor does he use it when he creates the Rasenshuriken.
If anything Kurama and the flaw in the seal, has caused him not to be able to access kurama's chakra at will (until he controlled it and entered KM) and it also gave him unbearably poor chakra control, which with Uzumaki chakra reserve as big as it is, he could create a shit load of clones still without Kurama's chakra (look at Nagato- an Uzumaki, being able to use Rinnegan almost at its full potential)

see ... this is why people that have been giving you rep and agreeing with your points are pretty much imbeciles that have no clue about what they're saying and believe that their pieced-together speculated and incomplete misunderstood information is actuality and real facts, when they are not but fabricated opinions at best.

He wasn't saying Naruto couldn't use rasenshuriken, he was saying he can't use it recklessly because without Kyuub'is chakra he can't repair himself so quickly. You just had a right go at him when you didn't even get what he was saying :|

 

[777skills]

I still dont understand how can two people have full control over something either i control or you control. IF kurama knew that it didnt matter if he gave naruto control over him why would he? IF madara was still able to control Kurama even after kurama gave control to naruto why would he go through all of that? His words were he would rather be under the control of naruto than over to madara. MY assumption is that it doesnt work both ways either one controls it or the other. Now assuming only one can control the fox what give hashirama priority over naruto considering that naruto has the fox on his side. This sisnt the same as hashirama to tobi as naruto to hashirama.

 

[AlexRG23]

Ehh its ok, however hashirama was only able to wrestle it away from madara, because madara can't control its power only its mind.
Kinda like how Minato wrestled kurama away from tobi, same story just different characters.

Yamato was able to suppress kurama's chakra because it was in a separate place inside Naruto, now
their chakra is fused therefore you can't suppress it, or so we know. Or madara/tobi would have done so, don't you think?

In BM, Naruto is pretty much a titan amongst men, hashirama was the greatest shinobi of his time, you're right. But notice how it says HIS TIME, not the same time as I recall.

However we can't say who would win considering we know so little about 1st, but from what we do know, Naruto has surpassed him....slightly

Oh and dont bring up how the 1st beat EMS madara, and km Naruto couldn't, because this madara is on a totally different level than before.

 

[Ryuu..]

Ehh its ok, however hashirama was only able to wrestle it away from madara, because madara can't control its power only its mind.
Kinda like how Minato wrestled kurama away from tobi, same story just different characters.

Yamato was able to suppress kurama's chakra because it was in a separate place inside Naruto, now
their chakra is fused therefore you can't suppress it, or so we know. Or madara/tobi would have done so, don't you think?

In BM, Naruto is pretty much a titan amongst men, hashirama was the greatest shinobi of his time, you're right. But notice how it says HIS TIME, not the same time as I recall.

However we can't say who would win considering we know so little about 1st, but from what we do know, Naruto has surpassed him....slightly

Oh and dont bring up how the 1st beat EMS madara, and km Naruto couldn't, because this madara is on a totally different level than before.

Base Hashirama > EMS Madara. Are you suggesting base Naruto > EMS Madara also?

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Hashirama is on a different level to Yamato. Or d you refuse to accept that. If Naruto is caught by Mokuton, how will he be able to perform TBB if its chakra is being supressed immediately? Tell me how he's going to get that 80:20 ratio.

You say he can't get his chakra supressed by Hashirama. Why is that?

There it is. Read what you just typed. Read it and tell me how Naruto will be caught. He is faster than any person that has ever lived, so how would he get caught in mokuton?


And by the way, how does Naruto fight his battles? With tons of clones. Do you honestly think that Hashirama can suppress KM mode in at least a dozen clones that are each as fast as A is, in addition to the original Naruto in his BM?

It is foolhardy. Or did you forget the fact that all while Naruto had been fighting people, he had over a dozen KM clones fighting people in every battle. KM clones who can make their own clones and who aren't destroyed after a single hit.

Naruto is currently on a whole different scale then Hashirama is. There isn't any point in arguing, because he just is. You however won't give up when everything is against you. I bet you would even say that Hashirama can beat Nagato or the SO6P

 

[Ryuu..]

There it is. Read what you just typed. Read it and tell me how Naruto will be caught. He is faster than any person that has ever lived, so how would he get caught in mokuton?


And by the way, how does Naruto fight his battles? With tons of clones. Do you honestly think that Hashirama can suppress KM mode in at least a dozen clones that are each as fast as A is, in addition to the original Naruto in his BM?

It is foolhardy. Or did you forget the fact that all while Naruto had been fighting people, he had over a dozen KM clones fighting people in every battle. KM clones who can make their own clones and who aren't destroyed after a single hit.

Naruto is currently on a whole different scale then Hashirama is. There isn't any point in arguing, because he just is. You however won't give up when everything is against you. I bet you would even say that Hashirama can beat Nagato or the SO6P

Didn't I say that was already up for debate?!?

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[Itachi Namikaze]

Base Hashirama > EMS Madara. Are you suggesting base Naruto > EMS Madara also?

There is no such thing as base Hashirama. There is just Hashirama.

As for Naruto, no you have no manga proof that says it was just Hashirama. There is however a manga quote that says that he gained control of the fox in their battle.

Do you know how much chakra it would take to keep the kyuubi suppressed while at the same time fighting EMS Madara? He couldn't have done it.

Just accept it, you lost. You don't have a solid argument, and everyone with a brain can see that.

EDIT: So you admit you lost. If he can't catch Naruto then he can't suppress his chakra. Your post above just ended this thread.

 

[AlexRG23]

Base Hashirama > EMS Madara. Are you suggesting base Naruto > EMS Madara also?

No, never lol, BM as in bijuu mode,(his recent upgrade) sorry if you got confused xd