Why Hashirama > BM Naruto

[Turson]

its not like the kyuubi was sealed when hashirama took it down. so there is no problem with bm naruto.

However, it would be great problem for Hashirama to catch him with his Mokuton becuase of Narutos insane speed.

 

[Wolfang714]

i agree, and also +rep for presenting actual evidence instead of just stating opinions and quoting crap like others.

 

[nuruto]

agree but naruto will get some more power and pass hashirama so soon,

 

[KrossxXtheSageXx]

OK so, I've seen some people claiming BM Naruto surpasses all other Hokage's. This is possibly true except for when it comes to the 1st Hokage. BM Naruto cannot defeat Hashirama Senju. This is why:

'Hashirama Senju is considered by many as the most powerful shinobi of his time. He was greatly respected by most shinobi during his lifetime, such that Tobi claimed Hashirama was the one person whom he respected the most as well as detested. His prowess and abilities were so great that he was able to not only fight on equal footing with Madara Uchiha despite his power of Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan and having the Nine-Tailed Demon Fox at his side, but even gained victory in the end and survived the battle.'

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Hashirama did not use Kurama against Madara at ANY POINT in the battle. He simply wrestled it away from Madara and his wife sealed it inside of her. People think she then actively aided him in battle; no, she aided him because the 9 tails was locked away and couldn't be use by Madara. SIMPLE.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Hashirama won against EMS Madara who had Kurama under his control. Dont forget this is Kurama with double the chakra (Yin chakra not sealed at the time). Hashirama controlled 7 tailed beasts at a point in time. 7. Base Naruto (no Kurama basically)< Madara. If Hashirama won, how on earth would Naruto beat him?

Hashirama can just suppress Kurama's chakra and a major source of Naruto's stamina and power is no longer available to him. Hence, BM and KM are rendered useless. Remember that necklace Tsunade passed down to Naruto which could control his Kyuubi chakra? Are you forgetting where it came from? Able to supress Kyuubi's chakra and look how small it is:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Yamato was able to restrain 4 tailed Naruto with his Wood Release/Mokuton.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Madara used his Wood Release to attack and kill nearly a whole army section. These Wood Releases' power is a small fraction of the power Hashirama is able to generate. THE MAIN POINT HERE IS THAT HASHIRAMA'S MOKUTON CAN SUPRESS THE KYUUBI'S CHAKRA. Mokuton is the strongest KKG aside from the eye dojutsus. Yamato admitted he was nowhere near the level of Hashirama Senju, and Madara was able to use such a powerful Mokuton technique with his first try. Now imagine how strong Hashirama's mastered version was.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Skip to 2mins:

Spoiler

Look at how many people have fought to get just a tiny bit of Hashirama's DNA. His chakra reserves were immense, and have subsequently allowed other shinobi's to amplify and control various other abilities. An entire Zetsu army was made out of his DNA. Tobi is flippin trying to grow another Hashirama for goodness sake:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Hashirama also has Bringer of Darkness. Tell me WTF will Naruto do against that?

I'm not hating on Naruto or anything but people need to realise that Hashirama Senju would defeat him everytime.

but in the latest chapter naruto now has most the jinchuriki's powers plus he mastered kurama's chakraxd

 

[Dgmf]

Hi everyone Hashirama was able to control small baby kurama and it was taken from him by madara which he wrestled to get back and could only seal it in his wife cos despite his strength and control technique that must have been taught him by his wife an Uzimaki couldn't seal inside himself. Also other Junchukri only sealed the beast in them not stripped it off it shakara like sage of SOP6 did to Jubi n made 9 beast inside himself. Only Naruto can surpass the sage like he predicted and Hashirama is a baby near the Sop6 so not been sentimental Hashirama is no one near full power Naruto when he truely becomes the SOP6 even now cos Big Boy Kurama may be had to seal by Hashirama now.

 

[Deadai]

After reading threw out this thread RikudoMadara I do agree with most of your points but I gotta say perhaps you should leave it rest when it comes to debating with a mod/admin(Tsuchi) chances are your not going to win just saiyan~

 

[dareak]

Random Complaint

Spoiler

Don't you guys just hate this absence of backstory? We get all this hype about dead characters but we aren't give any of their fights. And then various fanboys(not you, you're the one that argues with them) compare this hype to the powers of the current characters.
It's not comparable, at least not fairly.

We don't really know how Hashirama's power works though. All we know is that it was able to suppress the full Kurama.

Meh, Guess/Theory

Spoiler

Altough, now that I think about it, I can guess two ways his power works.

Either he suppresses the actual chakra of Kurama or he suppresses its will.

The power of the Sharingan allows its users to suppress the will of the Tailed Beasts. But we don't really know how Hashirama's power works.

If his power is based on suppressing Kurama's will then it probably won't work because of Naruto being a perfect jinchuuriki.

If his power is based on suppressing Kurama's actual chakra then it might work. I say "might" because we don't know the full details of being a perfect jin. The deciding factor would be:
Is Kurama's chakra still separate from Naruto's chakra or are they one?

Anyway, I guess I agree with you. But I still think there is too much absent information.
But I love your OP so +rep.

 

[izinagi54]

Now I know you're just trolling..................

ye he was a powerful kage but we need to know more about his powers plus wat did the tailed beast do to naruto speaking of which
WERE THE **** IS SHIKAKU

 

[izinagi54]

seriously did kishi forget him lol or tobi sealed him in gedo or someone

 

[blackbird31468]

Random Complaint

Spoiler

Don't you guys just hate this absence of backstory? We get all this hype about dead characters but we aren't give any of their fights. And then various fanboys(not you, you're the one that argues with them) compare this hype to the powers of the current characters.
It's not comparable, at least not fairly.

We don't really know how Hashirama's power works though. All we know is that it was able to suppress the full Kurama.

Meh, Guess/Theory

Spoiler

Altough, now that I think about it, I can guess two ways his power works.

Either he suppresses the actual chakra of Kurama or he suppresses its will.

The power of the Sharingan allows its users to suppress the will of the Tailed Beasts. But we don't really know how Hashirama's power works.

If his power is based on suppressing Kurama's will then it probably won't work because of Naruto being a perfect jinchuuriki.

If his power is based on suppressing Kurama's actual chakra then it might work. I say "might" because we don't know the full details of being a perfect jin. The deciding factor would be:
Is Kurama's chakra still separate from Naruto's chakra or are they one?

Anyway, I guess I agree with you. But I still think there is too much absent information.
But I love your OP so +rep.

agreed

 

[joeyfaint]

i like everything you expose about the 1st yes he might win i know he can suppress kuramas chakra but when naruto started training for his perfect jin his new transformation was shown to affect wood style jutsu like it was also shown to affect the zetsu who are made out of the 1st dna so naruto might also affect the 1st as well( not hating just bringing something new to the table) i would like to know whats your opinion on that?

 

[~MC117~]

Maybe, but I think we need to see more of the first hokage.

 

[spatha]

honestly, this is all speculation and opinion currently because one factor OP hasn't accounted for is that naruto is a perfect jinchuriki. Sure we know hashi wrested 9 tails(which was still full of hatred and under mind control essentially) from madara, but that doesnt mean it will work on naruto. Im not saying theres no way hashi could supress kurama, im just saying theres a big difference between releasing a beast controlled against its will and wrangling it back up again, and prying kurama from naruto, who has currently won his respect and id go so far as to say affection. It may not be nearly as easy as you make it to sound. Also one last point you failed to mention, dont forget madara was in it for the dna, and likely had little wish to stay and try to kill hashi, the battle was a fairly similar occurance to itachi and sasuke, they fought but madara/itachi didnt really care about winning, but had ulterior motives and so possibly didnt go 100%

 

[Ryuu..]

honestly, this is all speculation and opinion currently because one factor OP hasn't accounted for is that naruto is a perfect jinchuriki. Sure we know hashi wrested 9 tails(which was still full of hatred and under mind control essentially) from madara, but that doesnt mean it will work on naruto. Im not saying theres no way hashi could supress kurama, im just saying theres a big difference between releasing a beast controlled against its will and wrangling it back up again, and prying kurama from naruto, who has currently won his respect and id go so far as to say affection. It may not be nearly as easy as you make it to sound. Also one last point you failed to mention, dont forget madara was in it for the dna, and likely had little wish to stay and try to kill hashi, the battle was a fairly similar occurance to itachi and sasuke, they fought but madara/itachi didnt really care about winning, but had ulterior motives and so possibly didnt go 100%

I'm not talking about him wrestling it away, i'm talking about it supressing it's chakra - these are two completely different things. Madara went in that battle wanting the DNA, but the threat of death was real, so he couldn't hold up in the slightest.

 

[PainIsGod]

I'm not talking about him wrestling it away, i'm talking about it supressing it's chakra - these are two completely different things. Madara went in that battle wanting the DNA, but the threat of death was real, so he couldn't hold up in the slightest.

Lol there's obviously no getting through to you. You don't even listen to the people who gave better reasoning's then you did especially the admin. Your only argument is the 1st's wood release which in my opinion is not nearly as fast as BM naruto and would probably not be able to catch naruto to suppress the chakra. And you think your a nice guy? cursing and calling people clowns isn't all that nice.

 

[Hamlet]

Good thread, clear points were made with a lot of evidence. +rep

 

[Amelius]

Of what has been some from Hashirama Senju, Naruto is more then a match for him. Ill use what we all have been shown as comparsion.

Hashirama Senju uses Hokage-Style Sixty-Year-Old Technique — Kakuan Entering Society with Bliss-Bringing Hands, altho effective, it has not been used on a jinchūriki who has "tamed" his beast so its effectiveness is questionable.

Hashirama Senju uses Bringer-of-Darkness Technique, effective against Naruto's negative sensing abilities while in chakra mode, it does not effect his other senses and certainly does not effect his reflexes so all in all most likely a waste of chakra

Hashirama Senju uses his wood release, Naruto in chakra mode is more then fast enough and strong enough to either destroy the jutsu or avoid it entirely and go for Hashirama directly with a complete arsenal, which includes his ever successful Shadow clone.

Hashirama Senju uses taijutsu, naruto while in chakra mode has been shown to be extremely durable as well as extremely destructive so it would be a nice match but otherall, naruto would most like outlast Hashirama

So as previously stated, given what has been shown of Hashirama, Naruto has the upper hand in almost all situations. The only thing Hashirama has more of is battle experience, which is extremely valuable but as its been, Naruto is very resourceful, creative, distractive, and did I mention almost impurvious to damage.

This is also only using the information of Naruto while in Chakra mode, Because Beast mode is a unrealistic comparsion since its not perfected and its only been shown once and for only 5 mins. This does not include Sage Mode, Improved Chakra mode and Base Naruto. Should more information of Hashirama arise then this thread might have merit, frankly using Madara as the comparsion, Madara has not been shown in any kind of combat outside of Edo madara, and that version has been altered and even still, had it not been for the rinnegan, Natuto would have won the match, While not in Chakra or Beast mode I might add. I think thats is all... Thank you!

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

OK so, I've seen some people claiming BM Naruto surpasses all other Hokage's. This is possibly true except for when it comes to the 1st Hokage. BM Naruto cannot defeat Hashirama Senju. This is why:

'Hashirama Senju is considered by many as the most powerful shinobi of his time. He was greatly respected by most shinobi during his lifetime, such that Tobi claimed Hashirama was the one person whom he respected the most as well as detested. His prowess and abilities were so great that he was able to not only fight on equal footing with Madara Uchiha despite his power of Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan and having the Nine-Tailed Demon Fox at his side, but even gained victory in the end and survived the battle.'

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Hashirama did not use Kurama against Madara at ANY POINT in the battle. He simply wrestled it away from Madara and his wife sealed it inside of her. People think she then actively aided him in battle; no, she aided him because the 9 tails was locked away and couldn't be use by Madara. SIMPLE.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Hashirama won against EMS Madara who had Kurama under his control. Dont forget this is Kurama with double the chakra (Yin chakra not sealed at the time). Hashirama controlled 7 tailed beasts at a point in time. 7. Base Naruto (no Kurama basically)< Madara. If Hashirama won, how on earth would Naruto beat him?

Hashirama can just suppress Kurama's chakra and a major source of Naruto's stamina and power is no longer available to him. Hence, BM and KM are rendered useless. Remember that necklace Tsunade passed down to Naruto which could control his Kyuubi chakra? Are you forgetting where it came from? Able to supress Kyuubi's chakra and look how small it is:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Yamato was able to restrain 4 tailed Naruto with his Wood Release/Mokuton.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Madara used his Wood Release to attack and kill nearly a whole army section. These Wood Releases' power is a small fraction of the power Hashirama is able to generate. THE MAIN POINT HERE IS THAT HASHIRAMA'S MOKUTON CAN SUPRESS THE KYUUBI'S CHAKRA. Mokuton is the strongest KKG aside from the eye dojutsus. Yamato admitted he was nowhere near the level of Hashirama Senju, and Madara was able to use such a powerful Mokuton technique with his first try. Now imagine how strong Hashirama's mastered version was.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Skip to 2mins:

Spoiler

Look at how many people have fought to get just a tiny bit of Hashirama's DNA. His chakra reserves were immense, and have subsequently allowed other shinobi's to amplify and control various other abilities. An entire Zetsu army was made out of his DNA. Tobi is flippin trying to grow another Hashirama for goodness sake:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Hashirama also has Bringer of Darkness. Tell me WTF will Naruto do against that?

I'm not hating on Naruto or anything but people need to realise that Hashirama Senju would defeat him everytime.

If Naruto could have his Kyuubi chakra suppressed, don't you think Tobi or Madara would have done it? If Kyuubi could be suppressed by the likes of the Sharingan, all Tobi would have had to do was either take Naruto on himself, or have Sasuke take on Naruto with backup. Fact of the matter is, since Hashirama had to wrest control of the fox from Madara, it seems that if the control of a tailed beast is in another persons hands, it's either difficult or impossible to take control of it yourself. Even Madara couldn't just yank Kurama out of Naruto by summoning it because he is sealed in there for a reason.

Naruto also willingly allowed Yamato to suppress the Kyuubi.

Contract seals are easy enough, but still doesn't control the beast itself. Since Naruto and Kurama are more or less one being, I don't think that Hashirama would be able to do anything whilst Kurama is sealed in Naruto.

Naruto is now a perfect Jinchuuriki, so Bringer of Darkness is easy to snap out of.

 

[Ryuu..]

Lol there's obviously no getting through to you. You don't even listen to the people who gave better reasoning's then you did especially the admin. Your only argument is the 1st's wood release which in my opinion is not nearly as fast as BM naruto and would probably not be able to catch naruto to suppress the chakra. And you think your a nice guy? cursing and calling people clowns isn't all that nice.

If you knew, I actually apologised to the guy so yeah, I am nice.

 

[Sasuk3Uchiha]

Excellent Thread; Everything Makes Sense. I Can't Believe That Many People Feel That KM Naruto Could Surpass Hashirama ... Geez, Stop The Madness. Drop Kurama And Naruto Loses A Majority Of His Chakra, Stamina, & Power - Heck, He Wouldn't Even Be Able To Use Kage Bunshin As Recklessly As He Did During Part I Of The Series, Let Alone His Other More Powerful Techniques (i.e. Rasenshuriken).

+Rep