Why Hashirama > BM Naruto

[Ryuu..]

Yay I won ^_^

Next time I will get you

But I still belive that Hashirama's Mokuton means Naruto aint using BM xd

 

[Rikudo SenninKun Namikaze]

Originally Posted by RikudoMadara
SO you're saying Tsunade has surpassed Minato.

You've now lost all credibility LOL.

Jiraya was suppose to be hokage but he refused. Tsunade was the only one option left...

There weren't any "strong" ninja's to replace the 3rd hokage.

don't even bother, he's freaking half retarded obviously, he has no knowledge of actual events that took place in the manga.

 

[Ryuu..]

Originally Posted by RikudoMadara
SO you're saying Tsunade has surpassed Minato.

You've now lost all credibility LOL.



don't even bother, he's freaking half retarded obviously, he has no knowledge of actual events that took place in the manga.

LOL nice name calling. You said each Hokage surpasses the last. Was Jiraiya the 5th Hokage? Didn't think so. It was Tsunade. But you don't actually believe that:

each Hokage surpasses the last

So why did you say it? Get your story straight and stop relying on other people to bail you out...........

 

[Rikudo SenninKun Namikaze]

And I already told you, it would be supressed, Naruto would use it , it would be supressed, Naruto would use it......................it would be a cycle, so Naruto wouldn' t be able to use it no matter how many times he brings it back up.

how can he suppress something that he has no access to? Only naruto has full control over it, noone else. He can't supress the chakra like when the seal was closed off and was ONLY leaking a small ammount out, that's when he could push it back in, not anymore. so that's completly wrong.

 

[Rikudo SenninKun Namikaze]

LOL nice name calling. You said each Hokage surpasses the last. Was Jiraiya the 5th Hokage? Didn't think so. It was Tsunade. But you don't actually believe that:

each Hokage surpasses the last

So why did you say it. Get your story straight and stop relying on other people to bail you out...........

we are talking about the first 4 hokages, the real ones that were picked, not because they were forced to be chosen due to instability and lack there of.

 

[Rikudo SenninKun Namikaze]

And I already told you, it would be supressed, Naruto would use it , it would be supressed, Naruto would use it......................it would be a cycle, so Naruto wouldn' t be able to use it no matter how many times he brings it back up.

how can he suppress something that he has no access to? Only naruto has full control over it, noone else. He can't supress the chakra like when the seal was closed off and was ONLY leaking a small ammount out, that's when he could push it back in, not anymore. so that's completly wrong.

so now you're saying NOT ONLY he couldn't use Bijuu mode... which was your point. NOW you're ADDING that he couldn't access the chakra at all, the same chakra that he moved and fused within himself with a complete opened seal. wow. you are full of stupid assumptions.


WE ALL know your thinking is flawed because naruto moves faster than any Mokuton jutsu; or any ninja for that matter, almost teleporting himself; so how can you subdue it if you can't wrap the jutsu --like chakra chains would-- around his Bijuu mode? you can't.
---it's like saying, Sasuke or Itachi could hit Naruto or Raikage with Amateratsu because the jutsu is faster than them.... EEEEEH WRONG.

 

[Ryuu..]

we are talking about the first 4 hokages, the real ones that were picked, not because they were forced to be chosen due to instability and lack there of.

LOL, so you're picking and choosing whatever suits you now? why didn't you say that with your original post xd

F*ck it, i'm done.................

 

[Rikudo SenninKun Namikaze]

SO you're saying Tsunade has surpassed Minato. :|

You've now lost all credibility LOL.

tsunade can regenerate her own cells, her summon is incredibly powerful and aids her healing powers, in many ways she is stronger than him; look at her raw strength, and healing powers; only thing that he had over her was his speed; but she still IS stronger than him.

so yes, once again, you don't have concept of factual events in the manga it's obvious you've been reading it for few months.

LOL, so you're picking and choosing whatever suits you now? why didn't you say that with your original post xd

F*ck it, i'm done.................

no i wasn't, the counsel HAD TO because there were nobody else qualified; possessing the will of fire.

I mean, look at Kakashi, he was almost made hokage because of noone else qualified enough to be picked.... and was he even stronger than Tsunade? i don't think so.

 

[Gingka Uzumaki]

Honestly, Hashirama will still have to block a TBB that's Five Times Stronger than just One. He also has to get Naruto. It'll be the best match ever, but if history is right, Naruto somehow surpasses his former. Same with Sasuke.

 

[NakedNinja]

smh he cant surpress the 9 tails him and naruto are friends and he is in naruto stupid point

 

[squigles]

A few things:

1. Hashirama and Naruto would never have a reason to fight, both represent the will of fire and would protect the leaf as friends.

2. The only reason why Yamato was able to control the Kyuubi inside Naruto was because he was wearing Hashirama's necklace. That necklace was destroyed by Naruto in KM.

3. The difference between someone controlling a Bijuu using Sharingan and a Jinchuriki who's mastered controlling his Bijuu, is huge. Jinchuriki control > Sharingan control of a Bijuu.

4. When hashirama took control of Kurama against Madara, it would have been no different than when Minato took control of him against Tobi. Sealing techniques (which Hashirama's wife was skilled with) are better than the Sharingan.

5. Even now, Tobi can only control the Bijuu because he's controlling the Jinchuriki. Without the Jinchuriki, he can only control maybe 1-2 Bijuu at once, and the control he has is inferior to any sealing techniques.

6. Kurama is made up of both good and evil chakara, in equal amounts. When Minato sealed half of Kurama inside himself, it was the evil chakara, but even then, as Naruto grew up, Kurama fed on negative emotions and his evil chakara grew. As the series progresses, Naruto uses Kurama by feeding him hate and anger, kind of like the dark side of the force, and Kurama responds to that, giving him more power.

Right now, Naruto has removed the evil chakara from Kurama and sealed it separately from the good chakara, melding the good chakara with his own. Now when he uses Kurama's chakara, he becomes 'super saiyan' and only uses the good chakara.

6. Naruto has the key to his own seal, and has learned how to control the KM transformation. This gives him an advantage over anyone else who would try to control Kurama, be it Kurama or a Mokuton user. As far as we know, it is no longer possible for Yamato to control Kurama.

7. Wood style reacts Kurama's chakara now when Naruto transforms, showing that Naruto can control or use wood element release.

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8. I don't think things would turn out the way you think they would.

 

[Nidaime Pupil]

I like this thread and I like your posts and I think you've been getting a TON of retarded feedback like the comment above me. When Madara fought Hashirama with the Nine-Tails it had ALL OF ITS CHAKRA while currently half of it still remains sealed away. I think this gives pretty good perspective of how ridiculously powerful Hashirama was. Would he stop Naruto from using his/Kurama's chakra? No, but it's pointless he is strong enough to control a full powered Kurama AND defeat EMS Madara Uchiha. Damn. So I Like your thread and I agree Hashirama > current Naruto. But Fanboys gonna hate.

7. Wood style reacts Kurama's chakara now when Naruto transforms, showing that Naruto can control or use wood element release.

I was not referring to your comment when I said retarded feedback but this I disagree with. The life force of his chakra made trees grow it does not mean he can control or use Mokuton. LOL

 

[Amantius]

Bringer of Darkness, naruto has counter for remember? He fought in the frogs mouth in darkness, his sage mode allows him to. But you have to remember something, every hokage is said to be stronger than the previous one correct? Hiuzen was said to be stronger than both previous hokage right? Minato is Argumently y stronger than Hiruzen when he is old correct? Not my words, the 3th wanted Minato to take care of Orochimaru. I guess the point i am saying is, we have not seen the first hokage at his best(only in a video game we have) And the writer of the Manga clearly is making Naruto the strongest shinobi in all of Naruto.(Remember Tobi seen Harashima inside Naruto, that's not just a compliment) The time period Harashima was alive is different now, shinobi's have gotten stronger than that.(just saying it's not just Naruto but many others) Harashima is only >BM Naruto and most of the shinobi who are powerful as shit now with hype.

Good theory though.

Most of all most people keep forgeting that Naruto has a good portion of The kyuuby chakra in-storage, and the there is a big differences when a Jin mastered his inner tail beast, because in Harashima days, there were no such thing or person who have done that yet. So i think Harashima "controlling them still would be questioned.​

 

[Ryuu..]

I like this thread and I like your posts and I think you've been getting a TON of retarded feedback like the comment above me. When Madara fought Hashirama with the Nine-Tails it had ALL OF ITS CHAKRA while currently half of it still remains sealed away. I think this gives pretty good perspective of how ridiculously powerful Hashirama was. Would he stop Naruto from using his/Kurama's chakra? No, but it's pointless he is strong enough to control a full powered Kurama AND defeat EMS Madara Uchiha. Damn. So I Like your thread and I agree Hashirama > current Naruto. But Fanboys gonna hate.

Thanks man, I appreciate it xd

 

[ronus]

You missed the entire point of the thread :flaw:

NARUTO WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO USE ANY KYUUBI CHAKRA DURING THE BATTLE.​

Are you stupid or something. Naruto and Kyubi are now perfectly synchronized with each other: meaning whether they are under illusion or other technique(to suppress 9 tails chakra) IT WILL NOT WORK. For Christ shake WHAT PART OF PERFECT JINCHURIKI don't you understand. Further his seal has already been broken so Naruto will be able to use Kyuubi's chakra.
AND FURTHERMORE A tailed beast with a perfect Jinchuriki is far more POWERFUL than when it is free( IT HAS BEEN STATED MANY A TIMES IN THE MANGA AS WELl)

3rd hokage was able to seal both 2nd and 1st hokage: May be you are over estimating 1st hokage's power. Until we are shown what he truly was made of(may be some Flashblacks of MADARA) we can conclude that (WITH concrete proof not just SPECULATION) CURRENT NARUTO has surpassed all the KAGES.

 

[narutownsyouall]

Oh my god someone tell me hoe is WS going to catch BM Naruto?????

ive brought this up and still havent got an answer

WS cant catch BM naruto therefore he will be able to use karuma power and he will TBB Hashirama

How is Hashirama going to protect from TBB the size of the one naruto made??

1 destroys mountains and that one would destroy much more

seriously someone tell me?

Hashirama loses to naruto its that simple

 

[Mayhem]

There is no way that naruto can defeat hashirama yet. But later on his sure to surpass him.

 

[squigles]

I was not referring to your comment when I said retarded feedback but this I disagree with. The life force of his chakra made trees grow it does not mean he can control or use Mokuton. LOL

What do you think wood element release is? It's growing and controlling the growth of trees/wood.

If Naruto can make trees grow just by standing next to them and drawing Kurama's chakara, then imagine what he would be able to do if he were actually TRYING.

When Madara fought Hashirama with the Nine-Tails it had ALL OF ITS CHAKRA while currently half of it still remains sealed away.

When Madara fought Hashirama yes, Kurama had all it's chakara. But just because he had half his chakara sealed by Minato using the dead demon seal, that doesn't mean that the chakara doesn't come back within the part of Kurama that's sealed inside Naruto.

Think about it, Naruto was a baby, so the power of the fox was supressed completely. Over time, the seal weakens, despite naruto growing up and growing stronger (much stronger than he was as a baby). Mathematically, why would a baby naruto be able to hold half Kurama's chakara, but then an adolescent naruto have trouble holding the chakara, if it weren't growing?

A baby is much smaller and weaker than a teenager. If Kurama's chakara never grew from the time it was sealed into naruto, then he would have had zero trouble containing it and the seal would have never weakened to begin with.

So yes, it's entirely plausible and it makes sense that Kurama's chakara grows in size over time. Thinking that just because half was sealed at Naruto's birth, that Kurama would be stuck at half power forever, is a logical fallacy.

If anything, Kurama's power is greater than it was back when Madara used him against Hashirama.

 

[Scryed]

In overall power, Naruto is currently stronger but if it were to come to an actual battle, Naruto would lose to Hashirama's ability to suppress the Kyuubi. Even if Naruto is fast, Hashirama could pretty much use Mokuton on the entire surrounding area to prevent Naruto from fleeing. It could be a giant sphere with Naruto inside of it.

Ofcourse, Naruto wouldn't just stand there while it happens. If Hashirama could grow Mokuton from any surface then would that mean he could pretty much trap Naruto on the spot right below Naruto's feet? Naruto is speed, not FTG.

I'm not sure how Hashirama suppresses the Kyuubi's chakra but if it just involves for the wood to make contact with it, then he could grow the wood right below Naruto's feet and suppress Kurama's chakra. It could be that Mokuton is not even needed to suppress Kurama but Yamato was able to suppress chakra via Mokuton from Kisame as well when they were about to interrogate him. I believe that Mokuton itself suppresses chakra while it's in contact with someone or something that contains chakra.

 

[Avani]

*sigh*

So why was I able to tolerate criticism for 40 odd other people?

You're going beyond criticising my argument, you're just trying to do anything you possibly can so that i'm portrayed as a dumb f*ck who doesn't know what he's doing.

*sigh*

I didn't do anything such thing. I only countered your argument.

After reading threw out this thread RikudoMadara I do agree with most of your points but I gotta say perhaps you should leave it rest when it comes to debating with a mod/admin(Tsuchi) chances are your not going to win just saiyan~

I hope you are not implying my being a mod is main factor here. :mugi:

Excellent Thread; Everything Makes Sense. I Can't Believe That Many People Feel That KM Naruto Could Surpass Hashirama ... Geez, Stop The Madness. Drop Kurama And Naruto Loses A Majority Of His Chakra, Stamina, & Power - Heck, He Wouldn't Even Be Able To Use Kage Bunshin As Recklessly As He Did During Part I Of The Series, Let Alone His Other More Powerful Techniques (i.e. Rasenshuriken).

+Rep

I wonder if you remember that Naruto has sage mode to fall back upon. And he made shadow clones to save Iruka first time without Kurama's chakra. He has inheirted a large chakra pool from his Uzumaki side as well.

Probably. Depends on whether or not Hashirama stands a chance against Sage Mode and if he even gets the chance to suppress Kurama's chakra. He was insanely powerful no doubt, considering he defeated EMS Madara controlling Kurama. However, I've no clue who would win in him vs. SM Naruto. If it gets down to Taijutsu between them, Frog Kata would probably kill him in a single hit like it did to the Preta Path, since he can't detect natural energy. It would be an awesome fight though.

Yep. Naruto has a counter to bringer of darkness genjutsu if he can sense chakra in Sage mode. If he is able to retain kyuubi chakra and his own power disbalances the hashirama's tech somehow( like in Zetsu and Yamato) that's an extra. Then genjutsu can be broken by Kurama or he can still be sensed and spotted.

People forget that bringer of Darkness is more deadly for someone like Madara whose techs depended on his eyesight for the most part.

There can be more arguments for and against but since no one is actually putting them forth..

It's funny that how threads keep on going when the purpose of the ortiginal post (and original claim that Hshirama> Naruto in all circumstances) was defeated when the OP accepted that he had no surity.